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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 8:16:18 GMT
.... I'm legitimately more offended by what you think would offend me, as a straight male, than the offense you think would offend. I understand that there might (and likely is) long running frustrations with certain groups, but hypocrisy of it all not withstanding, can we not lump any group of people together as 'the enemy' or 'the victim' or 'the reason krogan can't be gay'? I wouldn't give half a quad if any krogan were gay. In fact, I'm of the mind that Grunt was either gay, or bi. All his talk about mating seemed more about status and biological necessity to breed than actual attraction. We're not talking about you as an individual... But you're not representative for the majority af straight gamers that play mass effect....okay, perhaps the complainants are neither, but they are just the loudest and most noticeable group... and I'm sure Bioware notice them too. I would not be surprised if they went the safe route to not piss them off.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 17, 2017 8:20:39 GMT
.... I'm legitimately more offended by what you think would offend me, as a straight male, than the offense you think would offend. I understand that there might (and likely is) long running frustrations with certain groups, but hypocrisy of it all not withstanding, can we not lump any group of people together as 'the enemy' or 'the victim' or 'the reason krogan can't be gay'? I wouldn't give half a quad if any krogan were gay. In fact, I'm of the mind that Grunt was either gay, or bi. All his talk about mating seemed more about status and biological necessity to breed than actual attraction. We're not talking about you as an individual... But you're not representative for the majority af straight gamers that play mass effect....okay, perhaps the complainants are neither, but they are just the loudest and most noticeable group... and I'm sure Bioware notice them too. I would not be surprised if they went the safe route to not piss them off. Exactly this. We're talking about a very specific crowd. I just wish Bioware would stop going the safe route. Like the guys who would complain about a character being gay aren't going to stop complaining once it's a different character being gay. And, really, do they think so little of straight men that they think we can't have a single gay squadmate without straight players having a meltdown over it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 8:27:17 GMT
We're not talking about you as an individual... But you're not representative for the majority af straight gamers that play mass effect....okay, perhaps the complainants are neither, but they are just the loudest and most noticeable group... and I'm sure Bioware notice them too. I would not be surprised if they went the safe route to not piss them off. Exactly this. We're talking about a very specific crowd. I just wish Bioware would stop going the safe route. Like the guys who would complain about a character being gay aren't going to stop complaining once it's a different character being gay. And, really, do they think so little of straight men that they think we can't have a single gay squadmate without straight players having a meltdown over it? Unfortunately, many developers, filmmakers and authors still think this way, otherwise you would find much more media with LGBT protagonists. Most people are still uncertain as to whether and how homosexual characters affect the sales figures. Bioware is very progressive in this regard. But I guess the Mass Effect team is still more conservative than the Dragon Age team. Therefore, I believe certain characters may still not be gay / lesbian, because of the backlash they fear from their fanbase. I wouldn't even be surprised if the most important characters in game turn out to be straight.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 17, 2017 8:34:12 GMT
Both of you talked in rather general terms. I'm not as 'offended' as I may have come across, but blaming a group of gamers and their potential keyboard warrior-ing for the decisions of people who have rather often shown they could care about focus groupa half the time (cough-hack ME3 endings/SWTOR/Jade Empire 2 cough-hack) is not what I would personally consider 'fair.'
And be honest here.... if we're going to play into stereotypes, do you really think fratboy shooter fans are really paying close enough attention to realize a keogan's potential sexuality, or that a majority on Reddit of all places would care about a homosexual companion?
Personally, my only concern of a homosexual krogan would be the biology point of human coupling... -shudder-
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 17, 2017 8:34:15 GMT
.... I'm legitimately more offended by what you think would offend me, as a straight male, than the offense you think would offend. I understand that there might (and likely is) long running frustrations with certain groups, but hypocrisy of it all not withstanding, can we not lump any group of people together as 'the enemy' or 'the victim' or 'the reason krogan can't be gay'? I wouldn't give half a quad if any krogan were gay. In fact, I'm of the mind that Grunt was either gay, or bi. All his talk about mating seemed more about status and biological necessity to breed than actual attraction. Well, he apparently has an crush on Liara, but other then that, I don't think he actually shown any signs of being really interested in either gender. On the topic of the krogan being a love interest, so far Bioware didn't make one, and I personally doubt we'll see one in Andromeda either. So I don't get the assumption that if they ever did one they'd make him straight. For all we know they didn't even think about making one romanceable.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 17, 2017 8:35:36 GMT
We're not talking about you as an individual... But you're not representative for the majority af straight gamers that play mass effect....okay, perhaps the complainants are neither, but they are just the loudest and most noticeable group... and I'm sure Bioware notice them too. I would not be surprised if they went the safe route to not piss them off. Exactly this. We're talking about a very specific crowd. I just wish Bioware would stop going the safe route. Like the guys who would complain about a character being gay aren't going to stop complaining once it's a different character being gay. And, really, do they think so little of straight men that they think we can't have a single gay squadmate without straight players having a meltdown over it? Are you referring to a krogan gay squadmate, or a gay squadmate in general?
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 17, 2017 8:38:51 GMT
Exactly this. We're talking about a very specific crowd. I just wish Bioware would stop going the safe route. Like the guys who would complain about a character being gay aren't going to stop complaining once it's a different character being gay. And, really, do they think so little of straight men that they think we can't have a single gay squadmate without straight players having a meltdown over it? Are you referring to a krogan gay squadmate, or a gay squadmate in general? I'm talking more in general terms, but a Krogan gay squadmate would definitely cause a bigger outcry, imo.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 17, 2017 8:40:13 GMT
Exactly this. We're talking about a very specific crowd. I just wish Bioware would stop going the safe route. Like the guys who would complain about a character being gay aren't going to stop complaining once it's a different character being gay. And, really, do they think so little of straight men that they think we can't have a single gay squadmate without straight players having a meltdown over it? Unfortunately, many developers, filmmakers and authors still think this way, otherwise you would find much more media with LGBT protagonists. Most people are still uncertain as to whether and how homosexual characters affect the sales figures. Bioware is very progressive in this regard. But I guess the Mass Effect team is still more conservative than the Dragon Age team. Therefore, I believe certain characters may still not be gay / lesbian, because of the backlash they fear from their fanbase. I wouldn't even be surprised if the most important characters in game turn out to be straight. Sadly, this is true. For every great character introduced, you have three dozen shoehorned in for crap ways that make the goods ones... less effective? Look at comics, for example. For every great Batwoman, there's an Iceman. For every Miles Morales, there's a Sam Wilson Cap. Honestly, if we were to approach the issue as a grass roots or genuine push, I think the right way is with more pseudo-indie or 'artistic' AAA titles, like Last of Us and Life is Strange. Both did great at having LGBTQ characters, which had their sexuality as part of their character, but not be their defining traight. Push good, well done stories that make sense in the context of their world, and the 'less open' well come to realize the LGBTQ community just filled with human, equitable and living people. My opinion, at least.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 17, 2017 8:41:21 GMT
.... I'm legitimately more offended by what you think would offend me, as a straight male, than the offense you think would offend. I understand that there might (and likely is) long running frustrations with certain groups, but hypocrisy of it all not withstanding, can we not lump any group of people together as 'the enemy' or 'the victim' or 'the reason krogan can't be gay'? I wouldn't give half a quad if any krogan were gay. In fact, I'm of the mind that Grunt was either gay, or bi. All his talk about mating seemed more about status and biological necessity to breed than actual attraction. Well, he apparently has an crush on Liara, but other then that, I don't think he actually shown any signs of being really interested in either gender. On the topic of the krogan being a love interest, so far Bioware didn't make one, and I personally doubt we'll see one in Andromeda either. So I don't get the assumption that if they ever did one they'd make him straight. For all we know they didn't even think about making one romanceable. Grunt had a thing for Liara? I must have missed that.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 17, 2017 8:42:36 GMT
Are you referring to a krogan gay squadmate, or a gay squadmate in general? I'm talking more in general terms, but a Krogan gay squadmate would definitely cause a bigger outcry, imo. Maybe, but on the latter point it's not like Bioware wrote krogan LI so far. I think they might not be too keen to have a krogan romance in general, with the hypothetical gender preference not being that important in this case.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 17, 2017 8:43:35 GMT
Well, he apparently has an crush on Liara, but other then that, I don't think he actually shown any signs of being really interested in either gender. On the topic of the krogan being a love interest, so far Bioware didn't make one, and I personally doubt we'll see one in Andromeda either. So I don't get the assumption that if they ever did one they'd make him straight. For all we know they didn't even think about making one romanceable. Grunt had a thing for Liara? I must have missed that. I think it was in Citadel, when he was drunk, after the party. I headcanon them eventually getting together, maybe a few centuries from the end of the trilogy .
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 17, 2017 8:45:14 GMT
Both of you talked in rather general terms. I'm not as 'offended' as I may have come across, but blaming a group of gamers and their potential keyboard warrior-ing for the decisions of people who have rather often shown they could care about focus groupa half the time (cough-hack ME3 endings/SWTOR/Jade Empire 2 cough-hack) is not what I would personally consider 'fair.' And be honest here.... if we're going to play into stereotypes, do you really think fratboy shooter fans are really paying close enough attention to realize a keogan's potential sexuality, or that a majority on Reddit of all places would care about a homosexual companion? Personally, my only concern of a homosexual krogan would be the biology point of human coupling... -shudder- I think it was pretty clear we weren't talking about you specifically. As for the latter bits, have you been around for the homophobic backlash against pretty much every LGBT character Bioware has put out? Look, man, I go on the Mass Effect subreddit quite a bit, so trust me when I say homophobia is definitely a sizable problem there. The Dragon Age subreddit is a lot nicer about gay stuff, in contrast. Anyways, to get back to the topic on hand, I would be so happy if Mass Effect: Andromeda gave us a gay squadmate. I don't care which gender, at this point, just give us a gay squadmate who's got a lot of content.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 17, 2017 8:51:35 GMT
Both of you talked in rather general terms. I'm not as 'offended' as I may have come across, but blaming a group of gamers and their potential keyboard warrior-ing for the decisions of people who have rather often shown they could care about focus groupa half the time (cough-hack ME3 endings/SWTOR/Jade Empire 2 cough-hack) is not what I would personally consider 'fair.' And be honest here.... if we're going to play into stereotypes, do you really think fratboy shooter fans are really paying close enough attention to realize a keogan's potential sexuality, or that a majority on Reddit of all places would care about a homosexual companion? Personally, my only concern of a homosexual krogan would be the biology point of human coupling... -shudder- I think it was pretty clear we weren't talking about you specifically. As for the latter bits, have you been around for the homophobic backlash against pretty much every LGBT character Bioware has put out? Look, man, I go on the Mass Effect subreddit quite a bit, so trust me when I say homophobia is definitely a sizable problem there. The Dragon Age subreddit is a lot nicer about gay stuff, in contrast. Anyways, to get back to the topic on hand, I would be so happy if Mass Effect: Andromeda gave us a gay squadmate. I don't care which gender, at this point, just give us a gay squadmate who's got a lot of content. I know you didn't mean /me/, I just do not like any 'broadstrokes' commentary. That said, nah, I wasn't on the Reddit a lot, so I'll take your word and apologize. I would have hoped Reddit would be better than that. I'm pretty sure Jaal is bi, at least. The least they can do is give some alienwang to BroRyder. Alienwang for all!
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 17, 2017 10:47:25 GMT
I'd mate with a Krogan, hell yeah. I'm getting more and more pumped for a Drack romance to be honest. It's not going to happen though. But I'd take Drack over Jaal in all honesty.
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Post by Dirk on Feb 17, 2017 11:09:16 GMT
Both of you talked in rather general terms. I'm not as 'offended' as I may have come across, but blaming a group of gamers and their potential keyboard warrior-ing for the decisions of people who have rather often shown they could care about focus groupa half the time (cough-hack ME3 endings/SWTOR/Jade Empire 2 cough-hack) is not what I would personally consider 'fair.' And be honest here.... if we're going to play into stereotypes, do you really think fratboy shooter fans are really paying close enough attention to realize a keogan's potential sexuality, or that a majority on Reddit of all places would care about a homosexual companion? Personally, my only concern of a homosexual krogan would be the biology point of human coupling... -shudder- I think it was pretty clear we weren't talking about you specifically. As for the latter bits, have you been around for the homophobic backlash against pretty much every LGBT character Bioware has put out? Look, man, I go on the Mass Effect subreddit quite a bit, so trust me when I say homophobia is definitely a sizable problem there. The Dragon Age subreddit is a lot nicer about gay stuff, in contrast. Anyways, to get back to the topic on hand, I would be so happy if Mass Effect: Andromeda gave us a gay squadmate. I don't care which gender, at this point, just give us a gay squadmate who's got a lot of content. I am on Reddit a lot. A few days ago there was a fan art of female Ryder and Vetra and that apparently drew some nasty reactions (but to be fair a lot of them were downvoted). I'd say homophobia on ME subreddit is there but not blatant and is usually downvoted, though people will also silently downvote you if you dare to suggest including more lgbt representation. Still homophobia in ME subreddit is pretty tame compared to other gaming subs. Oh I would love a gay squad mate or at least a squad mate LI for gay Ryder. I just find an idea of exploring a new universe and fighting alongside with your LI to be very romantic.
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Post by Panda on Feb 17, 2017 11:58:00 GMT
I think it was pretty clear we weren't talking about you specifically. As for the latter bits, have you been around for the homophobic backlash against pretty much every LGBT character Bioware has put out? Look, man, I go on the Mass Effect subreddit quite a bit, so trust me when I say homophobia is definitely a sizable problem there. The Dragon Age subreddit is a lot nicer about gay stuff, in contrast. Anyways, to get back to the topic on hand, I would be so happy if Mass Effect: Andromeda gave us a gay squadmate. I don't care which gender, at this point, just give us a gay squadmate who's got a lot of content. Still homophobia in ME subreddit is pretty tame compared to other gaming subs. Youtube comment section for ME trailers seem to area to avoid most. People are still claiming that Cora is lesbian based on her hair no matter how she's making out with Scott in the trailer. Youtube comments generally are quite bad, but there is nicer corners in the youtube as well depending on the content of the video so it's baffling how much of crowd like that Mass Effect reaches on youtube. The difference to BSN is so big (there is some nasty stuff here as well, but it's small and mostly trolly minority).
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Feb 17, 2017 14:24:42 GMT
DA reddit is nicer than ME reddit, but from time to time you can have some little monster populating the site, I remember how a good amount of trolls downvoting me for my opinion about how the most important characters like Alistair, Morrigan, Solas and Cass should have been bisexual, because is fair to have the same amount of content and prominent characters for everybody.
Of course there're a good quantity of straight people who are LGBTQ friendly (and I like to think this is a majority) you just have to look in this site, damn my sister is straight and is more LGBTQ than me, no kidding! But I think is our right to rant about the other nasty side who unfortunately exist, and have nothing to do with straight people who are very supporting. And it's a reality that we generally don't exist for marketing.
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Post by davkar on Feb 17, 2017 14:35:01 GMT
Krogan romance? Nah. C'mon guys. Although I have to say (*best Kasumi impression*) that Kesh, hmmm. No. Go away thoughts, no! No. Maybe. I don't know. In all seriousness though, I think we're just not there yet. There's the obvious physiological differences (organs, weight, size), the genophage and the 'krogans being krogans' adds a cultural (+ideological - might not be the best word, I mean the ~"we're doomed anyway, only thing left is the fighting") one too. Also the trilogy pretty much established the gender characteristics. Males dumbfightfight, women smart. Gay krogans just doesn't sound likely. The only thing they put into each other is a knife to the forehead. Maybe some of the women, since they have stronger emotional bonds. Besides Drack as a LI would feel like a copypaste Bull romance.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 17, 2017 15:52:02 GMT
I'm going to destroy this thread for a little while. Not NSFW but you probably shouldn't click if at work. Stop resisting people, Krogan's are the way of future!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 15:54:22 GMT
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 17, 2017 16:08:45 GMT
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Feb 17, 2017 16:12:59 GMT
I'm going to destroy this thread for a little while. Not NSFW but you probably shouldn't click if at work. Stop resisting people, Krogan's are the way of future! I have seen the entire comic and it's pretty... well drawn. And interesting.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 17, 2017 16:16:23 GMT
I'm going to destroy this thread for a little while. Not NSFW but you probably shouldn't click if at work. Stop resisting people, Krogan's are the way of future! I have seen the entire comic and it's pretty... well drawn. And interesting. This comic made me appreciate Krogan's in a hole new way. HOLE NEW WAY. But seriously, Krogan nay-sayers be damned, I'd be romancing a gay krogan so damn fast.
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Post by glitch89 on Feb 17, 2017 16:30:26 GMT
I'm going to destroy this thread for a little while. Not NSFW but you probably shouldn't click if at work. Stop resisting people, Krogan's are the way of future!
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Post by Panda on Feb 17, 2017 17:32:40 GMT
Yep, definitely not for me though I'm alienmancer. Wouldn't be against Drack as option though, all the power to people who want him.
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