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Post by Kian on Feb 19, 2017 7:56:58 GMT
Ah the realism argument against lgbt representation, we have dismissed that claim. There are so many things that are unrealistic in ME games, but the existence of lgbt people beyond the status quo somehow feels forced. The "fun" part of the realism "argument" (and other similar nonsensical stuff) is its cyclic nature. Talk and explain to person #74988, maybe they get it, maybe they don't. Phew, time to move on... *BAM* person #74989 comes along and has the exact same "argument"
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Post by Kaidan Alenko on Feb 19, 2017 8:02:32 GMT
Ugh, so many pages in one night. Good thing there aren't actual leaks so far because it would be difficult to find them here. The 'perfect' DA2 system is the laziest, most unimaginative approach. Sure 'everyone' is 'happy', but these so called 'bi' romances are still just gay and straight options determined by Hawke's gender and yet they are both and neither at the same time. Both genders get the same (97%) lines, the same scenes. But where are the characters, the arcs, the goals? Romance doesn't matter with these characters. Regardless of your choices Anders is always a mass murdering abomination, Fenris is always brooding and boring, Merril is always a dumb bloodmage and Isabela... well maybe she is the only one, but she's just blatantly banging everyone and everything. So you are saying the romances should react diferent depending on what Hawke has between his/her legs? How would that work exactly? Anders, Merrill and Fenris fall in love with Hawke, not with "a woman" or "a man", and Isabela likes to have sex with everyone so it made sense if gender didn't matter. And it still shouldn't matter because is a game and we all are happy if we choose to romance whoever the hell we want. Really, why would someone be angry because they can romance whoever they want? Is freedom, who doesn't like freedom? don't we play videogames to escape reality? And if someone for X reason feels the need to have a gay, lesbian or straight character in their game they can always headcanon, like in Fallout 4, everyone is playersexual, not bisexual, since most of the romances you don't know what they fancy, so you can think "X character is lesbian" "X is gay", etc. Romances are more about love than just sex (If they were just sex then it makes sense if they prefer a sex over the other), they can make your character and the LI's character change, also they affect the ending of the game (Like having little blue kids with Liara). Since as people menitoned before "Ryder isn't going to ask everyone what they fancy", then why can't all of them be bisexual so everyone romances the character they like? after all, they are toys, our toys, not real people, we should be using them, not them forcing us to change the sex of our Ryder if we want to romance that character.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 8:04:12 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance.
Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players.
I think this just makes sense.
They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that.
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Post by Kian on Feb 19, 2017 8:04:37 GMT
Ugh, so many pages in one night. Good thing there aren't actual leaks so far because it would be difficult to find them here. The 'perfect' DA2 system is the laziest, most unimaginative approach. Sure 'everyone' is 'happy', but these so called 'bi' romances are still just gay and straight options determined by Hawke's gender and yet they are both and neither at the same time. Both genders get the same (97%) lines, the same scenes. But where are the characters, the arcs, the goals? Romance doesn't matter with these characters. Regardless of your choices Anders is always a mass murdering abomination, Fenris is always brooding and boring, Merril is always a dumb bloodmage and Isabela... well maybe she is the only one, but she's just blatantly banging everyone and everything. So, you say all characters being "playersexual" (it would have been easy to have them bi, but BW made an effort to actually not do that, so whatever, let's go with the silly "playersexual" term) somehow takes away from the characters and story. And then you proceed to describe how romance with these characters doesn't influence them, their story or the overall story at all since, apparently, romance doesn't change anything. As the Oracle would say, make your damn mind. Are "all bi" characters bland and storyless or not. Is romance irrelevant or not. Flip flopping mid sentence is just ridiculous.
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Post by Dirk on Feb 19, 2017 8:13:13 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. Not sure that would solve anything? I think both being bi works the best.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 8:23:43 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. Not sure that would solve anything? I think both being bi works the best.It seem so far, because they are the only romanceable aliens we know so far (+ PeeBee). When we learn there is a ton of romanceable aliens who all have different preferences, I guess everyone will find a suitable "candidate" for him/herself. So there really is no big issue here, if both Jaal and Vetra are straight
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Post by Kaidan Alenko on Feb 19, 2017 8:24:31 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. Even though I'm glad male characters would get a Turian to romance, since they took Garrus away from us, a lot of women are going to get angry since they really want a lesbian romance with Vetra. Also, taking the new race from guys is just wrong, the only races males could romance in Mass Effect were humans, quarians and asari. While women could romance Humans, Drell, Turians, Asari, and even a Prothean in the Citadel DLC (just bang, but good bang).
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 19, 2017 8:26:47 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. That's not a solution though. That's just what you want and what you think would work best.
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Post by Panda on Feb 19, 2017 8:36:23 GMT
Honestly my ideal would be: 6 squadmates with 2 being straight, 2 being bi, and 2 being gay. All of them being plot relevant and important characters with a lot of content. Then, the extra NPC love interests could be flings and have less content. Even though it probably is what will happen, that diversity feels way to forced. We would have 1 straight male, 1 straight female, 2 bisexuals, 1 gay and 1 lesbian. Is like when they were recruiting people for Andromeda they said "We need diversity, so if we have more than 2 straights in the team, stop recruiting straight people, it doesn't matter if they are better qualified than a bisexual/gay/lesbian, we need diversity" It is a game, sometimes game features overrule realism within the game. Also we have tons of different species in our party so I doubt there was any kind of clear recruitment process- like in other BW games I think this is just group we end up with. Some are subordinates, some will come along the game.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 8:59:30 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. That's not a solution though. That's just what you want and what you think would work best. But they had to make a decision on this one way or another I personally really don't mind BI characters, hell I wouldn't mind if all romanceables were playersexual. But for those who mind that (and turns out they are a large % of the fanbase) they had to 'balance' this somehow. 1 month and we all learn how
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 19, 2017 9:14:14 GMT
That's not a solution though. That's just what you want and what you think would work best. But they had to make a decision on this one way or another I personally really don't mind BI characters, hell I wouldn't mind if all romanceables were playersexual. But for those who mind that (and turns out they are a large % of the fanbase) they had to 'balance' this somehow. 1 month and we all learn how And Sheryl Chee's the one who wrote her and had an influence on what her sexuality is, so, yeah, I guess we will see.
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Post by Blue-Slates on Feb 19, 2017 10:14:38 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. Yeah, except for the fact that maybe they'd want to enter a same sex romance with a squadmate, as well as the fact that gay/lesbian romances would be relegated to side characters with little content again. Having them be bi would make the most people happy as well. And I'm not really sure how either of them being straight makes sense, at least any more sense than them being bi/gay
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 10:33:54 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. Yeah, except for the fact that maybe they'd want to enter a same sex romance with a squadmate, as well as the fact that gay/lesbian romances would be relegated to side characters with little content again. Having them be bi would make the most people happy as well. And I'm not really sure how either of them being straight makes sense, at least any more sense than them being bi/gay If either Jaal or Vetra were BI, then the other one would have to be BI aswell to keep the balance. Otherwise one gender would get 100% option with both, the other gender only 50% of the whole deal. So its either Jaal and Vetra are straight or they are both BI, but I believe keeping them hetero seems more probable in terms of how many hetero and how many BI/GAY individuals are there. Unless, of course aliens have different % of hetero/bi/gay individuals within their own spiecies, but that we don't know so far.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 10:37:15 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. Most obvious? Makes sense? NO. How? How is gay players and lesbian players being denied an alien squadmate romance, on top of no humans as well, "obvious solution" and "makes sense"? Oh, cause you'd get Vetra so everything would make sense for you, but screw everyone else
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 10:40:34 GMT
Most obvious solution in terms of alien romance. Jaal will be for femaple players. Vetra for will be for male players. I think this just makes sense. They might also introduce various NPC versions of Angara and Turians which might be BI/GAY for players who want that. Most obvious? Makes sense? NO. How? How is gay players and lesbian players being denied an alien squadmate romance, on top of no humans as well, "obvious solution" and "makes sense"? Oh, cause you'd get Vetra so everything would make sense for you, but screw everyone else I said more obvious, but I also said I don't mind them being all BI Its just a difference between what we all deserve and what seems most probable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 10:40:45 GMT
Not sure that would solve anything? I think both being bi works the best.It seem so far, because they are the only romanceable aliens we know so far (+ PeeBee). When we learn there is a ton of romanceable aliens who all have different preferences, I guess everyone will find a suitable "candidate" for him/herself. So there really is no big issue here, if both Jaal and Vetra are straight Are you trolling right now? No big issue if Jaal and Vetra are straight??? It wouldn't be for you, of course, as you'd get the most romance options again and can ride through the game on your wave of privilege like this thread. There will be a big issue if they are both straight, as that would pretty much mean gay and lesbians get no squadmate romances. For gods sake have you not read the past pages on this thread? Its very naive to come here and say it would be no big issue. Let me tell you it would be a big issue, even for some straight players, who don't like listening to other players complain about something they can't complain about.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 10:42:50 GMT
That's not a solution though. That's just what you want and what you think would work best. But they had to make a decision on this one way or another I personally really don't mind BI characters, hell I wouldn't mind if all romanceables were playersexual. But for those who mind that (and turns out they are a large % of the fanbase) they had to 'balance' this somehow.
1 month and we all learn how Are you seriously implying that, simply out of majority, the straight male players should once more be entitled to the most options again? Please check and acknowledge the privilege of statements like the ones you are making, cause you shouldn't be surprised when people call you out on it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 10:44:33 GMT
It seem so far, because they are the only romanceable aliens we know so far (+ PeeBee). When we learn there is a ton of romanceable aliens who all have different preferences, I guess everyone will find a suitable "candidate" for him/herself. So there really is no big issue here, if both Jaal and Vetra are straight Are you trolling right now? No big issue if Jaal and Vetra are straight??? It wouldn't be for you, of course, as you'd get the most romance options again and can ride through the game on your wave of privilege like this thread. There will be a big issue if they are both straight, as that would pretty much mean gay and lesbians get no squadmate romances. For gods sake have you not read the past pages on this thread? Its very naive to come here and say it would be no big issue. Let me tell you it would be a big issue, even for some straight players, who don't like listening to other players complain about something they can't complain about. Read post above. Also, you have to understand that while there are straight people like me who don't mind all BI characters, if Bioware makes every alien BI all of a sudden then it start to seem ridiculous for vast majority of straight fanbase (which is the largest). You stumble upon so many people every day and how many of them are BI? let alone gay? Now you fly to Andromeda and bam, every alien is either BI or gay ? Doesn't make sense I'm afraid. Further deliberation about this topic is kinda pointless too, since we will get what will get and none of us at this point has any influcence on that. Let's wait for the game to release, then there will be a lot to discuss.
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Post by Dirk on Feb 19, 2017 10:51:17 GMT
Are you trolling right now? No big issue if Jaal and Vetra are straight??? It wouldn't be for you, of course, as you'd get the most romance options again and can ride through the game on your wave of privilege like this thread. There will be a big issue if they are both straight, as that would pretty much mean gay and lesbians get no squadmate romances. For gods sake have you not read the past pages on this thread? Its very naive to come here and say it would be no big issue. Let me tell you it would be a big issue, even for some straight players, who don't like listening to other players complain about something they can't complain about. Read post above. Also, you have to understand that while there are straight people like me who don't mind all BI characters, if Bioware makes every alien BI all of a sudden then it start to seem ridiculous for vast majority of straight fanbase (which is the largest). You stumble upon so many people every day and how many of them are BI? let alone gay? Now you fly to Andromeda and bam, every alien is either BI or gay ? Doesn't make sense I'm afraid.Further deliberating about this topic is kinda pointless too, since we will get what will get and none of us at this point has any influcence on that. Let's wait for the game to release, then there will be a lot to discuss. There is nothing in the lore which invalidates that though. Why should we expect that how things in Andromeda are similar to Milky Way? Hell why should other species in MW conform to human sexuality distribution? Or are we talking about the realism again? I don't think we ask for every alien to be bi. Just the squad mate ones, namely Vetra and Jaal, are what we asked for.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 10:56:31 GMT
Read post above. Also, you have to understand that while there are straight people like me who don't mind all BI characters, if Bioware makes every alien BI all of a sudden then it start to seem ridiculous for vast majority of straight fanbase (which is the largest). You stumble upon so many people every day and how many of them are BI? let alone gay? Now you fly to Andromeda and bam, every alien is either BI or gay ? Doesn't make sense I'm afraid.Further deliberating about this topic is kinda pointless too, since we will get what will get and none of us at this point has any influcence on that. Let's wait for the game to release, then there will be a lot to discuss. There is nothing in the lore which invalidates that though. Why should we expect that how things in Andromeda are similar to Milky Way? Hell why should other species in MW conform to human sexuality distribution? Or are we talking about the realism again? I don't think we ask for every alien to be bi. Just the squad mate ones, namely Vetra and Jaal, are what we asked for. Already said what I had to say No purpose to ponder this any more before the release.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 11:00:23 GMT
Read post above. Also, you have to understand that while there are straight people like me who don't mind all BI characters, if Bioware makes every alien BI all of a sudden then it start to seem ridiculous for vast majority of straight fanbase (which is the largest).You stumble upon so many people every day and how many of them are BI? let alone gay? Now you fly to Andromeda and bam, every alien is either BI or gay ? Doesn't make sense I'm afraid. Further deliberation about this topic is kinda pointless too, since we will get what will get and none of us at this point has any influcence on that. Let's wait for the game to release, then there will be a lot to discuss. Pfft, if they find that particular break in "realism" ridiculous, then that's there problem. They can go play other games if the thought of lots of LGBT people in space is a troubling thing for them. Again, statements like since there are more straight males as part of the fanbase, the entire games should be catered to with them in mind, and everyone else be an afterthought, that is just so privileged and arrogant.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 19, 2017 11:01:47 GMT
Read post above. Also, you have to understand that while there are straight people like me who don't mind all BI characters, if Bioware makes every alien BI all of a sudden then it start to seem ridiculous for vast majority of straight fanbase (which is the largest). You stumble upon so many people every day and how many of them are BI? let alone gay? Now you fly to Andromeda and bam, every alien is either BI or gay ? Doesn't make sense I'm afraid.Further deliberating about this topic is kinda pointless too, since we will get what will get and none of us at this point has any influcence on that. Let's wait for the game to release, then there will be a lot to discuss. There is nothing in the lore which invalidates that though. Why should we expect that how things in Andromeda are similar to Milky Way? Hell why should other species in MW conform to human sexuality distribution? Or are we talking about the realism again? I don't think we ask for every alien to be bi. Just the squad mate ones, namely Vetra and Jaal, are what we asked for. Who is to say that there aren't alien races with higher percentages of gay/bi people? Asari, for example, all seem to be into women, whether said women are asari or not. Furthermore, who's to say there wouldn't be higher percentages of gay/bi humans in the future? Or, even now... It's painfully ignorant to think that the amount of people who openly identify as LGBT in surveys represent all LGBT people, since many are still closeted, questioning, or doubt they're "really" LGBT and keep quiet about it. And, even if you disagree, it's speculative fiction for a reason, meaning it can speculate there are more, I don't know, gay people in the future. Hell, considering how we've been overpopulated for a while and may continue to grow in that direction, more people being born that, with some exceptions, aren't going to be wanting heterosexual sex that causes pregnancy actually makes sense to me.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 19, 2017 11:03:09 GMT
Are you trolling right now? No big issue if Jaal and Vetra are straight??? It wouldn't be for you, of course, as you'd get the most romance options again and can ride through the game on your wave of privilege like this thread. There will be a big issue if they are both straight, as that would pretty much mean gay and lesbians get no squadmate romances. For gods sake have you not read the past pages on this thread? Its very naive to come here and say it would be no big issue. Let me tell you it would be a big issue, even for some straight players, who don't like listening to other players complain about something they can't complain about. if Bioware makes every alien BI all of a sudden then it start to seem ridiculous for vast majority of straight fanbase (which is the largest). why would it seem ridiculous to straight fanbase lol. you still get your fair share of aliens either way?
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Post by Panda on Feb 19, 2017 11:36:53 GMT
I'm not kinda fond of all bi approach since I like characters having different sexualities, to me all bi isn't diversity. However I wonder if all LI's being bisexual, but non-LI's having different sexualities would work? That way you would still have different sexualities in the game and diversity with them without taking away LIs from the players. The problem for me often with all bi approach is that the world around doesn't fit it, everyone is into Dragonborn (Skyrim) or Sole survivor (FO4) regardless of gender, but all other people you see are in hetero relationship. But if non-LIs showed diversity in terms of relationships it wouldn't feel unrealistic?
It is bit battle between what is good for playing the game and what is good for realism.
However I don't see why Jaal and Vetra in particular wouldn't make sense as bisexual characters especially if there would be other straight and homosexual characters.
I'm hoping I'm making some kind of sense with this..
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Post by theratpack55 on Feb 19, 2017 11:47:28 GMT
I strongly doubt that BW would make all squad members except for an Asari straight. That's an approach they have already been trying to step away from in ME3, seeing how criticized it was in the first two games. So having both Jaal and Vetra be straight is the least probable option imo.
Assuming Liam and Cora are straight I suppose Vetra might be straight as well, since there's already Peebee on the team. Jaal I'm pretty sure will be bi, if only because I find the leak mentioning his sex scenes with both Ryders to be believable. But of course as of yet there's nothing proving that Liam and Cora are straight.
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