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Post by yusu on Mar 21, 2017 1:33:16 GMT
Okay so, apparently the statement Starkles got from the devs is, and I quote: "Jaal should turn down Scott." The datamine basically just miraculously exposed a programming oversight. Congratulations, we baited ourselves for...a while now I guess? I don't believe so. This is what I get: The devs knew Jaal was straight. There was no flirt option for Scott. This Starkles guy asked the devs by saying that he successfully flirted with Jaal and the devs got confused, because it should not be possible. They replied that Jaal should turn Scott down (because he was straight). We did not bait ourselves, all the marketing and teasing, tweeting, wink wink did. Or did I misunderstand something?
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 21, 2017 1:33:44 GMT
Yeah...I'm cynical enough to believe that Starkle twitter guy is trying to capitalise on the controversy. He twittered he could f*uck Jaal as male Ryder then reverts back to "oh I flirted with him." So which is it? He actual got a sex romance scene or just flirted back and forth with no culmination or explanation from Jaal saying something about "So...where's this going?" His tweets are too ambiguous and inconsistent. I'm not impressed with his apparent lack of empathy. Can you even capitalise on twitter? Like, money wise? Or do you mean attention wise?
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 1:33:47 GMT
Not really, it got worse. Asari weren't Carbon copies of each other, with different skin and tattoos. There were at least a few different models that they used. I was about to say that I'm talking about ME1-2 times with same thing about "no gays in squad allowed" but then I remembered Aria and Samara/Morinth. And Liara ofc, but she's a Peebee case. Honestly, everything looks simply worse. ME1 had more planets to land on. They were shitty but at the same time had less fetch quests and at least Mako was jumpy and funny. Don't worry. The Nomad handles just as terribly as the Mako.
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 21, 2017 1:34:05 GMT
On a side note, I love how (albeit unintentionally) snarky SAM can be
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:34:23 GMT
Anyway, Jaal fiasco aside, Bioware still needs to account for why m/m relationships basically got jack-all for content. That is VERY much still on the table and should not be left to slide away from us. That is unacceptable.
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Post by Suaimhneas on Mar 21, 2017 1:34:57 GMT
Can't believe I considered skipping class the day this game came out. I suppose I should thank Bio Ware I'm happily gonna go and get myself some education.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 1:35:11 GMT
I'm ready for Tevinter. Pls give us rebellions and Mae and a gay dwarf, these are 100% proven to heal broken hearts. PREACH! Basically as stated. When the romances were FINALLY revealed and people questioned the lack of m/m once more one of the leads (Casey Hudson?) was like 'Shepard is more of a predetermined character than what we've done before, he's just not gay'. Unless he's a woman. Then he can be gay. He can be a gay woman. Of course, this comes with a lot of offensive implications and is generally utterly flawed and stupid and this was pointed out and perhaps helped get us bi Kaidan and Steve (don't worry Steve, I love you). You left out my favorite part. After he said that Shep couldn't be gay, people were like, "But what about FemShep? Why can she be gay then?" And he said, "She isn't because asari are monogendered. So that's not a lesbian relationship." And then people said, "What about Kelly......?" And THEN he said, "Oh, well FemShep can be gay but male Shep can't be because he's a predetermined character...."
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ShakespeareInSpace
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Post by ShakespeareInSpace on Mar 21, 2017 1:35:22 GMT
Yeah...I'm cynical enough to believe that Starkle twitter guy is trying to capitalise on the controversy. He twittered he could f*uck Jaal as male Ryder then reverts back to "oh I flirted with him." So which is it? He actual got a sex romance scene or just flirted back and forth with no culmination or explanation from Jaal saying something about "So...where's this going?" His tweets are too ambiguous and inconsistent. I'm not impressed with his apparent lack of empathy. Can you even capitalise on twitter? Like, money wise? Or do you mean attention wise? Definitely attention wise. His twitter feed has been teeming with activity since.
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Post by Petroshenko on Mar 21, 2017 1:35:45 GMT
I don't believe so. This is what I get: The devs knew Jaal was straight. There was no flirt option for Scott. This Starkles guy asked the devs by saying that he successfully flirted with Jaal and the devs got confused, because it should not be possible. They replied that Jaal should turn Scott down (because he was straight). We did not bait ourselves, all the marketing and teasing, tweeting, wink wink did. Or did I misunderstand something? Or the twitter guy was just making shit up. He also said you can bang Jaal. So yeah
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 1:35:49 GMT
Basically as stated. When the romances were FINALLY revealed and people questioned the lack of m/m once more one of the leads (Casey Hudson?) was like 'Shepard is more of a predetermined character than what we've done before, he's just not gay'. Unless he's a woman. Then he can be gay. He can be a gay woman. Of course, this comes with a lot of offensive implications and is generally utterly flawed and stupid and this was pointed out and perhaps helped get us bi Kaidan and Steve (don't worry Steve, I love you). Hawke was very much a predetermined character too and you can still be gay/bi At least we got Kaidan at the end, I guess that's... something. Well what they were saying was 'he's too manly/badass/assertive to be gay'. It wouldn't have 'made sense', you see?
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 21, 2017 1:36:13 GMT
Jien Garson was voiced by a trans woman, wasn't she? And she got an offscreen death so.... But being voiced by a trans woman doesn't mean the character was trans. So I wouldn't count that for anything. Yeah but it isn't exactly ideal for the PR department right now. "We offer inclusiveness both meta and non." "*Kills off only known character voiced by trans woman*" "*Has a big I AM TRANS sign on a random NPC lady*" "So inclusive. " Inquisition wasn't perfect but I genuinely enjoyed and loved and came to care for Krem.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 21, 2017 1:36:23 GMT
I'm ready for Tevinter. Pls give us rebellions and Mae and a gay dwarf, these are 100% proven to heal broken hearts. I've been itching for gay dwarves in DA for SO DAMN LONG! Especially male ones, there is not a single known non-straight male dwarf in DA unless you play as one, dwarf LIs pls bioware paging @daveliam edit: I mean technically there is Denier the dwarven prostitute at the Blooming Rose who is constantly boning Templars but I mean..... yeah. I'm ready for Tevinter. Pls give us rebellions and Mae and a gay dwarf, these are 100% proven to heal broken hearts. I'm a bit worried on how they might handle Mae tbh...but I have some faith in Weekes all our hopes are on you, bbyBased on some of the team's earlier comments I am feeling more positive than not. I think they'll do her justice. The DA team has learned a lot over the years.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:36:29 GMT
Okay so, apparently the statement Starkles got from the devs is, and I quote: "Jaal should turn down Scott." The datamine basically just miraculously exposed a programming oversight. Congratulations, we baited ourselves for...a while now I guess? I don't believe so. This is what I get: The devs knew Jaal was straight. There was no flirt option for Scott. This Starkles guy asked the devs by saying that he successfully flirted with Jaal and the devs got confused, because it should not be possible. They replied that Jaal should turn Scott down (because he was straight). We did not bait ourselves, all the marketing and teasing, tweeting, wink wink did. Or did I misunderstand something? Yes, but marketing tells the devs they're not allowed to give out any specific information. So they're forced to "tease" by giving us vague non-answers, while the fans over-interpret and over-analyze everything they say. I mean we (myself included) believed the datamine to represent something that factually didn't exist. That's not Bioware's fault if it was an error.
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Post by barderic on Mar 21, 2017 1:37:10 GMT
Just a heads up TES is more about world building than plot or characterization. I love the series but realize you have to write your own stories in your head. Most of the love interests are blank slates for the romance who will marry you after doing a quest or two for them, and you have to imagine how the romance plays out. Even the ones with more personality have less than the 'flings' of the ME universe. I'm not bashing TES. I just don't want you going in not realizing TES takes the "role playing" aspect to the extreme of the player filling in the blanks. Also, with mods (at least for PC) you can romance Khajiit (cat people) too. It's curious you can't in the vanilla game, it's probably either due to time constraints making the game or due to running out of space on the Xbox 360, which at the time reserved a huge chunk of the DVD for Microsoft OS stuff and couldn't require HDD installs since not all Xbox 360 models had one. Thanks for the heads up! Yeah I know TES romances are anecdotic so no harm done there totally gonna mod my game for those cat people, the furrier the merrier One user here (goldfish memory) told me that if you are man can marry a female werewolf but not the other way around, that's sucks, but cloooose too close to my wishlist for DA4 :heh: Late reply, but that was me. You can actually marry her regardless of your character's gender, same with all the marry-able people in Skyrim, which is pretty awesome. There's also two male werewolves who you can marry, but they both cure their werewolf-ness before the point where you can actually marry them if I remember correctly, which I think is what you're remembering.
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 21, 2017 1:37:32 GMT
This Starkey guy is making some weird-ass tweets: Not to rag on him too much, but gurl, what is going on in here on this day? My friend always says never trust twinks with bleached hair I learned that the hard way Woops too personal. and partial jk
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Post by brendanrouth on Mar 21, 2017 1:38:02 GMT
That trans woman? Yikes. I mean, positive points for trying to include a trans woman. But that....... is a little cringeworthy. It's what someone might write if they didn't actually know a trans person. Jien Garson was voiced by a trans woman, wasn't she? And she got an offscreen death so.... Exactly! That's the most infuriating thing about this. This "character" being thrown in and making her trans status known so awkwardly is a side effect of relegating a trans character to such an unimportant role. If you give transgender characters bigger roles of course there's going to be better opportunities for them to discuss their gender identity. When Jamie Clayton was announced as Jien's VA I was so fucking pumped to possibly get a huge transgender NPC. The leader of the Andromeda Initiative is a trans woman? Fuck yes! Only NOPE, she get's killed offscreen. And AFAIK she isn't trans either. Maybe they'll establish her as trans in the Nexus Uprising novel, but I doubt it. Wouldn't matter much at that point anyway.
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Post by yusu on Mar 21, 2017 1:38:28 GMT
I don't believe so. This is what I get: The devs knew Jaal was straight. There was no flirt option for Scott. This Starkles guy asked the devs by saying that he successfully flirted with Jaal and the devs got confused, because it should not be possible. They replied that Jaal should turn Scott down (because he was straight). We did not bait ourselves, all the marketing and teasing, tweeting, wink wink did. Or did I misunderstand something? Or the twitter guy was just making shit up. He also said you can bang Jaal. So yeah Oh he definitely made shit up. I was thinking from the devs' point of view.
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Post by dhalion on Mar 21, 2017 1:38:38 GMT
I was about to say that I'm talking about ME1-2 times with same thing about "no gays in squad allowed" but then I remembered Aria and Samara/Morinth. And Liara ofc, but she's a Peebee case. Honestly, everything looks simply worse. ME1 had more planets to land on. They were shitty but at the same time had less fetch quests and at least Mako was jumpy and funny. Don't worry. The Nomad handles just as terribly as the Mako. The Mako was so frustrating but also made me crack up so much. I saw a friend somehow do a fucking pirouette off the side of a small cliff directly into a lava pit.
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Post by brendanrouth on Mar 21, 2017 1:38:52 GMT
I've been itching for gay dwarves in DA for SO DAMN LONG! Especially male ones, there is not a single known non-straight male dwarf in DA unless you play as one, dwarf LIs pls bioware paging @daveliam I'm a bit worried on how they might handle Mae tbh...but I have some faith in Weekes all our hopes are on you, bbyBased on some of the team's earlier comments I am feeling more positive than not. I think they'll do her justice. The DA team has learned a lot over the years. The DA team is like masters degree in gender studies with a minor in queer theory levels of #woque compared to the ME team ATM.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 1:39:29 GMT
I'm ready for Tevinter. Pls give us rebellions and Mae and a gay dwarf, these are 100% proven to heal broken hearts. PREACH! Basically as stated. When the romances were FINALLY revealed and people questioned the lack of m/m once more one of the leads (Casey Hudson?) was like 'Shepard is more of a predetermined character than what we've done before, he's just not gay'. Unless he's a woman. Then he can be gay. He can be a gay woman. Of course, this comes with a lot of offensive implications and is generally utterly flawed and stupid and this was pointed out and perhaps helped get us bi Kaidan and Steve (don't worry Steve, I love you). You left out my favorite part. After he said that Shep couldn't be gay, people were like, "But what about FemShep? Why can she be gay then?" And he said, "She isn't because asari are monogendered. So that's not a lesbian relationship." And then people said, "What about Kelly......?" And THEN he said, "Oh, well FemShep can be gay but male Shep can't be because he's a predetermined character...." The rest was too embarrassingly wearisome to type out. But, yes, thus is the saga of Fight For The Love. Thank god they threw us a token gay this time so that this argument won't come up again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 1:42:03 GMT
Did someone say gay dwarf......?
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Post by luketrevelyan on Mar 21, 2017 1:42:12 GMT
The DA team is so much more open and friendly. The ME team could learn a lot from them.
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Post by ash on Mar 21, 2017 1:42:30 GMT
I was about to say that I'm talking about ME1-2 times with same thing about "no gays in squad allowed" but then I remembered Aria and Samara/Morinth. And Liara ofc, but she's a Peebee case. Honestly, everything looks simply worse. ME1 had more planets to land on. They were shitty but at the same time had less fetch quests and at least Mako was jumpy and funny. Don't worry. The Nomad handles just as terribly as the Mako. Mhm, the Nomad is nice imo. One of a few nice things in this games. At least it has no tendencies to suddenly discover an ability to fly while still having suicidal ones. Anyway, Jaal fiasco aside, Bioware still needs to account for why m/m relationships basically got jack-all for content. That is VERY much still on the table and should not be left to slide away from us. That is unacceptable. They also need to learn to answer for their own words. Nobody forced them to say that gay men can have aliens. Honestly, if they try to go "alien friend" or "asari aren't female" I'm grabbing popcorn because the outcome will be glorious. I'm grabbing it anyways because I'd love to see them try to convince anybody that they care after we already discovered this shit, including the amount of content crewmates have - I kinda told everyone beforehand that the only 100% (and not 50-90-whatever) thing I'm sure about is that crew has significantly less data for them than squadmates have.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 21, 2017 1:42:51 GMT
I've been mentioning Zootopia a lot, but frankly this whole situation reminds of how great that creative team must have been to avoid the kinds of nonsense here, notably the inclusion of a gay married couple that somehow dodged controversy when they had the same last name in the credits and yet again somehow dodged an uproar months later when it was outright confirmed on Twitter.
No lampshading in the movie. No big "oh hi we're married." Nothing like that. No, characters being bi or gay absolutely does not need to be a part of their character or their plot. People are people first, and so much more defines them than that. Am I making this up? Do I remember a developer claiming it had to be some part of who they are? Was that part of the "has to make sense" nonsense or am I merging all kinds of unrelated things?
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 1:43:12 GMT
Jien Garson was voiced by a trans woman, wasn't she? And she got an offscreen death so.... Exactly! That's the most infuriating thing about this. This "character" being thrown in and making her trans status known so awkwardly is a side effect of relegating a trans character to such an unimportant role. If you give transgender characters bigger roles of course there's going to be better opportunities for them to discuss their gender identity. When Jamie Clayton was announced as Jien's VA I was so fucking pumped to possibly get a huge transgender NPC. The leader of the Andromeda Initiative is a trans woman? Fuck yes! Only NOPE, she get's killed offscreen. And AFAIK she isn't trans either. Maybe they'll establish her as trans in the Nexus Uprising novel, but I doubt it. Wouldn't matter much at that point anyway. This so hard. I thought Jien was gonna be a badass major character who's trans status was dwarfed by the fact that she's a fucking genius and pioneer with Jamie face scan, the whole nine yards.
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