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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 10:27:36 GMT
Or we can just go back to Jade Empire/Mass Effect 1 "template". 3 squadmates - 1 straight girl, 1 bi/lesbian girl, 1 bi guy. Everyone gets something, number of romances is kept in check yet they're all squadmates, less waifu wars, less hassle in potential sequels, sexualities still varied instead of all bi etc.
Because this "expanded" number of options that was said to be done with gay players in mind is actually just benefitting straight guys mostly now getting as many as 3-5 main female squadmate romances while 'the gays' are mostly NPCs (while still 1/2 max in numbers)...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 10:33:05 GMT
Or we can just go back to Jade Empire/Mass Effect 1 "template". 3 squadmates - 1 straight girl, 1 bi/lesbian girl, 1 bi guy. Everyone gets something, number of romances is kept in check yet they're all squadmates, less waifu wars, less hassle in potential sequels, sexualities still varied instead of all bi etc. Because this "expanded" number of options that was said to be done with gay players in mind is actually just benefitting straight guys mostly now getting as many as 3-5 main female squadmate romances while 'the gays' are mostly NPCs (while still 1/2 max in numbers)... There wasn't a bi-guy in ME1. Not a gay either. Not in ME2 either. Gay-men were SOL.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 24, 2017 10:36:15 GMT
I don't know what I'm going to do with my Norman if there is no gayliens. I'm not interested of human LIs, they are boring. Basically. I mean humans are great, but when everyone else gets aliens but one sexuality gets COMPLETELY LEFT OUT, it's weird as hell? Like what's their reasoning. Oh, wait, I guess... gay/bi male aliens DONTMAKE SENSE ™I'm getting a bit nervous about the lack of male aliens for male Ryder. I really need to be put out of my misery right now and be told '' no, dudes won't have dude aliens '' because I'm in pain. Two male Ryder x male NPC romances/flings/whathaveyou have been sorta leaked and both human. BOTH. HUMAN. And if ANYONE thinks there's more than two dudes for a dude Ryder, ahahashfdkajsdfkasjfopdfwekftgew+9u toijp4. I'd love to bother the devs and ask if all sexualities have an alien available for them. I wonder if they'd answer that, even if it's in cryptic morse code, I mean it's not that big of a spoiler, RIGHT?! Tho I guess I know the answer already... and it's a big N O. I swear, if ME:A doesn't fulfill my gay alien needs then I'm gonna start lobbying for it and make a thread for blueballed gay alien chasers, and I better see you all fuckers there supporting my quest for a gaylien romance, goddamit! This is how I feel. Q_Q I think it will be like this: straight sisRyder - Jaal, Liam, Reyes (cuz he can be BI) straight broRyder - Cora, Pee Bee, Vetra, Lexi gay sisRyder - Pee Bee, Lexi, Suvi gay broRyder - Reyes, Gil (2npc lol) And it doesn't look good. Of course people say: "don't cry, you have gay LI! Just say thx for this!"... yeah, but it's so... I do not expect anything. Bioware killed my hope. When people ask them about gay LI for broRyder, they're just: "yea yea we have so many NPC FOR U, so many choices". Better if: gay sisRyder - Pee Bee, Lexi, Suvi + Vetra gay broRyder - Reyes, Gil + Jaal but... yeah, dont think we have it At this point I'd take Jaal. I was a bit iffy about him, but if he is the only option gay/bi men can have when it comes to gayliens, then yes, please, give me the space rabbit slug snake thing. I will caress him and love him. Like, I'm fine if gay male romances are restricted to NPCs, whatever. THAT'S FINE. But I draw the line at restricting gay/bi men from male aliens. What the hell dude?? What is so sacred about male aliens that they can't fall in love male humans? If there is no romanceable gay alien, at least give me a non-romanceable gay alien and we can see him get it on with some other dude. At least that way BW confirms that there can INDEED be gay/bi male aliens. But right now, NO SUCH ALIEN EXISTS!!! BOOO! I don't know what I'm going to do with my Norman if there is no gayliens. I'm not interested of human LIs, they are boring. Yup, same. I don't understand what's so wrong with DA series being worse than ME in gay romances part, which was mentioned a few pages ago. Gay males had Zevran in origins, Fenris and Anders in DA2 and Dorian and Bull in DAI. All of them were squadmembers. 2 of them were elves and one is a qunari. Meanwhile, ME1-2 had none and ME3 had Kaiden and Steve. Both human, one wasn't even in my squad. And Kaiden had some pretty high chances to be long time dead in half of my saves. I honestly don't even care so much if a character is bi or gay, or pan, or whatever - my main point here is that since the freaking 2007 we haven't had a single alien available for m/m romance. Heck, even Javik scene in that DLC was female-only. Humans are boring. It's popular now to vote with your wallet and I'm going to do so if I don't have a m/m romanceable alien as my squadmate... or at the very freaking least romanceable AI with a body /rantoff, sry, but those are some serious problems with their understanding of their playerbase if they pull that bullcrap again. DA has definitely had more variety. I hope there's an AMA or a free-for-all ask the devs session after the games release because I'm honestly curious as to why ME:A is deprived of male romanceable male aliens. I don't think we're going to get an answer for that beyond IT DIDNT MAKE SENSE ™ But hey, at least there are people who feel the same as us, and you're all welcome to my blueballed gay alien chaser club if there is indeed no male aliens for male Ryder. Hope to see ya'll there!!
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 10:46:22 GMT
There wasn't a bi-guy in ME1. Not a gay either. Not in ME2 either. Gay-men were SOL. I know, I'm talking "post-fact" scenario where Kaidan eventually was bi option and how it should've been done from start. My point is simple - Bioware's proud advertising how "there's more romances than ever!" does nothing for the gay options because they're still 1 or 2 max available and often not with squadmates while number of straight options soars to huge numbers WITH squadmates. We're not really getting anything out of this so may as well go back to 3 romanceable characters in general and get 1 main-squadmate romance with largest amount of content
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Post by zaefkol on Feb 24, 2017 10:47:54 GMT
Or we can just go back to Jade Empire/Mass Effect 1 "template". 3 squadmates - 1 straight girl, 1 bi/lesbian girl, 1 bi guy. Everyone gets something, number of romances is kept in check yet they're all squadmates, less waifu wars, less hassle in potential sequels, sexualities still varied instead of all bi etc. Because this "expanded" number of options that was said to be done with gay players in mind is actually just benefitting straight guys mostly now getting as many as 3-5 main female squadmate romances while 'the gays' are mostly NPCs (while still 1/2 max in numbers)... There wasn't a bi-guy in ME1. Not a gay either. Not in ME2 either. Gay-men were SOL. Sure there was. Kaidan was in both games. He's totally bi. We just didn't know it at the time.
Retroactive representation totally counts. In fact, it makes the romance all the more meaningful because of how it was so grand and epic that it spanned all three games.
Bioware can do the same thing here. Make Jaal bi, keep the players in suspense, and then finally let us know about in Mass Effect: Andromeda 3 - The Remnant Wars.
Everyone's happy. The end.
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Post by Fiannan on Feb 24, 2017 11:01:14 GMT
There wasn't a bi-guy in ME1. Not a gay either. Not in ME2 either. Gay-men were SOL. Sure there was. Kaidan was in both games. He's totally bi. We just didn't know it at the time.
Retroactive representation totally counts. In fact, it makes the romance all the more meaningful because of how it was so grand and epic that it spanned all three games.
Bioware can do the same thing here. Make Jaal bi, keep the players in suspense, and then finally let us know about in Mass Effect: Andromeda 3 - The Remnant Wars.
Everyone's happy. The end.
I'm really glad they decided to make Kaidan a romance option for male!Shep in ME3, even though some fem!Shep players who romanced him were salty about it "invalidating" their relationship or something. It's just a shame it took them three games to get there. I actually prefer the Kaidan/M!Shep romance to the Kaidan/F!Shep one, personally; I like the way it plays out better (the mutual pining thing is my kryptonite), although I definitely think he should have been a romance option from ME1. It's a travesty that gay male Shepards had no romance options until ME3 and I definitely hope that gay Bro!Ryder gets better treatment. At least one romanceable squadmate (whether bi or gay, whatever) and one Tempest crew member - preferably one alien and one human, so everyone gets an option - would be acceptable to most people, I think. It would be nice if there were more, obviously, but two would allow people to have options, at least.
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Post by naychan on Feb 24, 2017 11:01:28 GMT
Of course they have big problem with this. If they do broRyder+alien male, they cant joke jokes about genitals! It's just (my) sarcasm on the subject of the article about Sarah and Jaal... You know those awkward situations with Garrus? Maybe they don't know how to implement this with a male character. But it doesn't matter, I agree with you, I also need my alien boyfriend.
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Post by ash on Feb 24, 2017 11:05:01 GMT
There wasn't a bi-guy in ME1. Not a gay either. Not in ME2 either. Gay-men were SOL. Sure there was. Kaidan was in both games. He's totally bi. We just didn't know it at the time.
Retroactive representation totally counts. In fact, it makes the romance all the more meaningful because of how it was so grand and epic that it spanned all three games.
Bioware can do the same thing here. Make Jaal bi, keep the players in suspense, and then finally let us know about in Mass Effect: Andromeda 3 - The Remnant Wars.
Everyone's happy. The end.
And just in the 2030 (the time MEA3 hits the shelves) I shall romance him with my Ryder, who will die by that time only to be resurrected by Peebee (and some shady organisation involved), and all of that only to see 1/3 of the content female Ryder sees? Great.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 11:08:26 GMT
^ You forgot the part where Peebee steals our millions we earned in Andromeda 1 and opens a luxury office on posh planet
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 24, 2017 11:08:57 GMT
If Jaal isn't bi, then I'm hoping for 7th secret gay squadmate. Male Quarian, since Aaryn Flyn said this: As fantastic as that would be, it is so unlikely. I would love for it to be true, but I think I'm beyond grabbing at emergency induction ports at this point.
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Post by Panda on Feb 24, 2017 11:15:52 GMT
I don't know what I'm going to do with my Norman if there is no gayliens. I'm not interested of human LIs, they are boring. Yup, same. I don't understand what's so wrong with DA series being worse than ME in gay romances part, which was mentioned a few pages ago. Gay males had Zevran in origins, Fenris and Anders in DA2 and Dorian and Bull in DAI. All of them were squadmembers. 2 of them were elves and one is a qunari. Meanwhile, ME1-2 had none and ME3 had Kaiden and Steve. Both human, one wasn't even in my squad. And Kaiden had some pretty high chances to be long time dead in half of my saves. I honestly don't even care so much if a character is bi or gay, or pan, or whatever - my main point here is that since the freaking 2007 we haven't had a single alien available for m/m romance. Heck, even Javik scene in that DLC was female-only. Humans are boring. It's popular now to vote with your wallet and I'm going to do so if I don't have a m/m romanceable alien as my squadmate... or at the very freaking least romanceable AI with a body /rantoff, sry, but those are some serious problems with their understanding of their playerbase if they pull that bullcrap again. I think it's probably about writers. David Gaider wrote many of LIs available for gay PCs, Zevran, Fenris and Dorian and he was main writer of the series as well so openness to LGBT+ might be somewhat his influence. When, although I'm lot less familiar with ME team, ME's writing team seemed to approach at least first game in viewpoint of straight male players. They made Asari hot space babes and said that Shepard wasn't gay- which to me sounds more like they just didn't want to write gay romances and came up with excuse since fem!shep can have f/f romance. So I think the DA team simply was lot more LGBT+ friendly and progressive from the beginning than ME's was.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 24, 2017 11:17:27 GMT
Of course they have big problem with this. If they do broRyder+alien male, they cant joke jokes about genitals! It's just (my) sarcasm on the subject of the article about Sarah and Jaal... You know those awkward situations with Garrus? Maybe they don't know how to implement this with a male character. But it doesn't matter, I agree with you, I also need my alien boyfriend. Well if they don't know how to implement those awkward moments they are quite incapable as writers huuuh. But either way, I'm still holding onto a kernel of hope that there's a male alien romance for broRyder. Even though TWO gay human romances have already been sorta leaked... sadface.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 11:24:52 GMT
There's no secret 7th squadmate and if there is it's gonna be someone incredibly plot-critical and plot-twisty like The Archon joining the squad, not a gay Quarain, be realistic folks.
As for the writers, these discussions were done to death pre-ME3. Let's not get into that again, everyone can draw their own very obvious conclusions. Simply remember the history of this franchise and that it was never Dragon Age, or even Jade Empire. That's enough to know that calm but consistient pleas and appeals to devs to give gay guys squadmate romance are needed between every new installement, otherwise we're gonna be at the lowest & furthest accessible level of Normandy/Tempest. Literally.
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Post by ash on Feb 24, 2017 11:27:43 GMT
I think it's probably about writers. David Gaider wrote many of LIs available for gay PCs, Zevran, Fenris and Dorian and he was main writer of the series as well so openness to LGBT+ might be somewhat his influence. When, although I'm lot less familiar with ME team, ME's writing team seemed to approach at least first game in viewpoint of straight male players. They made Asari hot space babes and said that Shepard wasn't gay- which to me sounds more like they just didn't want to write gay romances and came up with excuse since fem!shep can have f/f romance. So I think the DA team simply was lot more LGBT+ friendly and progressive from the beginning than ME's was. Well, my only hope now is that Cathleen was the person who wrote Kaidan for the third game and as a bi squadmate. And, in my opinion, also actually made him a decent character instead of... well... a person he used to be prior ME3. One can only hope.
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 24, 2017 11:48:46 GMT
I think it's probably about writers. David Gaider wrote many of LIs available for gay PCs, Zevran, Fenris and Dorian and he was main writer of the series as well so openness to LGBT+ might be somewhat his influence. When, although I'm lot less familiar with ME team, ME's writing team seemed to approach at least first game in viewpoint of straight male players. They made Asari hot space babes and said that Shepard wasn't gay- which to me sounds more like they just didn't want to write gay romances and came up with excuse since fem!shep can have f/f romance. So I think the DA team simply was lot more LGBT+ friendly and progressive from the beginning than ME's was. Well, my only hope now is that Cathleen was the person who wrote Kaidan for the third game and as a bi squadmate. And, in my opinion, also actually made him a decent character instead of... well... a person he used to be prior ME3. One can only hope. Bioware have plenty of writers who have written and are happy writing same gender relationships. I'm confident that this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with the higher-ups.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 24, 2017 11:53:27 GMT
The ME1–ME2 was the past, the ME3 gave me some hope, I don't want to lose it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 11:57:00 GMT
There wasn't a bi-guy in ME1. Not a gay either. Not in ME2 either. Gay-men were SOL. Sure there was. Kaidan was in both games. He's totally bi. We just didn't know it at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 12:08:45 GMT
Yup, same. I don't understand what's so wrong with DA series being worse than ME in gay romances part, which was mentioned a few pages ago. Gay males had Zevran in origins, Fenris and Anders in DA2 and Dorian and Bull in DAI. All of them were squadmembers. 2 of them were elves and one is a qunari. Meanwhile, ME1-2 had none and ME3 had Kaiden and Steve. Both human, one wasn't even in my squad. And Kaiden had some pretty high chances to be long time dead in half of my saves. I honestly don't even care so much if a character is bi or gay, or pan, or whatever - my main point here is that since the freaking 2007 we haven't had a single alien available for m/m romance. Heck, even Javik scene in that DLC was female-only. Humans are boring. It's popular now to vote with your wallet and I'm going to do so if I don't have a m/m romanceable alien as my squadmate... or at the very freaking least romanceable AI with a body /rantoff, sry, but those are some serious problems with their understanding of their playerbase if they pull that bullcrap again. I think it's probably about writers. David Gaider wrote many of LIs available for gay PCs, Zevran, Fenris and Dorian and he was main writer of the series as well so openness to LGBT+ might be somewhat his influence. When, although I'm lot less familiar with ME team, ME's writing team seemed to approach at least first game in viewpoint of straight male players. They made Asari hot space babes and said that Shepard wasn't gay- which to me sounds more like they just didn't want to write gay romances and came up with excuse since fem!shep can have f/f romance. So I think the DA team simply was lot more LGBT+ friendly and progressive from the beginning than ME's was. Not to mention that romances in ME has always been poorly written compared to DA. I gringe when I think of how dude-Shepard acted in Kaidan's. Kaidan was swell, it was my Shep that was like a wooden doll with some of the most stupid lines I've ever heard. FemShep and Jacob is legendary and not in a good way. Thane was awesome, but again, how femShep acted with him was epic facepalm-moment after facepalm-moment. Hadn't done any het romances with male Shep so don't know how bad he was there, but he must've been bad, I can't believe writer would've suddenly made him act naturally. I never had such a facepalm moments when romancing in DA, did only gays but I've been always plenty happy of how they were done.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 12:28:52 GMT
Not even FemShep/Jacob reaches the cringe of Bull romance "lines"
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 24, 2017 12:31:19 GMT
I think it's probably about writers. David Gaider wrote many of LIs available for gay PCs, Zevran, Fenris and Dorian and he was main writer of the series as well so openness to LGBT+ might be somewhat his influence. When, although I'm lot less familiar with ME team, ME's writing team seemed to approach at least first game in viewpoint of straight male players. They made Asari hot space babes and said that Shepard wasn't gay- which to me sounds more like they just didn't want to write gay romances and came up with excuse since fem!shep can have f/f romance. So I think the DA team simply was lot more LGBT+ friendly and progressive from the beginning than ME's was. Not to mention that romances in ME has always been poorly written compared to DA. I gringe when I think of how dude-Shepard acted in Kaidan's. Kaidan was swell, it was my Shep that was like a wooden doll with some of the most stupid lines I've ever heard. FemShep and Jacob is legendary and not in a good way. Thane was awesome, but again, how femShep acted with him was epic facepalm-moment after facepalm-moment. Hadn't done any het romances with male Shep so don't know how bad he was there, but he must've been bad, I can't believe writer would've suddenly made him act naturally. I never had such a facepalm moments when romancing in DA, did only gays but I've been always plenty happy of how they were done. Actually Shepard's romance with Ash, Miranda and Jack were all quite good. The relationship with Liara was no different from femshep's. The Kaiden relationship in ME3 was all sorts of awkward. I avoided all flirt options with him and stayed on friendly ground and he still came on to my Shepard. It felt completely out of left field. While maintaining the same friendly relationship with Ash she never came on strong when I was romancing someone else.
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 24, 2017 13:07:13 GMT
Not even FemShep/Jacob reaches the cringe of Bull romance "lines"
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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XBL Gamertag: Minttymint
PSN: theminttymint
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Post by Mintty on Feb 24, 2017 13:12:41 GMT
Not even FemShep/Jacob reaches the cringe of Bull romance "lines" No way! Jacob's cringe levels are TOO DAMN HIGH. and bull's romance was great shhh
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Post by Kian on Feb 24, 2017 13:16:36 GMT
Actually Shepard's romance with Ash, Miranda and Jack were all quite good. The relationship with Liara was no different from femshep's. The Kaiden relationship in ME3 was all sorts of awkward. I avoided all flirt options with him and stayed on friendly ground and he still came on to my Shepard. It felt completely out of left field. While maintaining the same friendly relationship with Ash she never came on strong when I was romancing someone else. Kaidan didn't come on strong. Anyone with half a brain cell still functioning can see that watching all his scenes. Problem for homophobe morons (I'm sure this is not your case though) is that any guy hitting on them triggers their innate hysteria and pavlovian conditioning (gay guy > must react with: hysterical eww - the more theatrical the better the other monkeys will praise you). It's funny how you underline exactly this by comparing your reaction to Ashley, a female flirting with you, to your reaction to Kaidan, a male flirting with you. The hypocrisy and double standard these people have the audacity to parade as "normal" is outstanding.
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mikaelnovasun
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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mikaelnovasun
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 24, 2017 13:41:02 GMT
Actually Shepard's romance with Ash, Miranda and Jack were all quite good. The relationship with Liara was no different from femshep's. The Kaiden relationship in ME3 was all sorts of awkward. I avoided all flirt options with him and stayed on friendly ground and he still came on to my Shepard. It felt completely out of left field. While maintaining the same friendly relationship with Ash she never came on strong when I was romancing someone else. Kaidan didn't come on strong. Anyone with half a brain cell still functioning can see that watching all his scenes. Problem for homophobe morons (I'm sure this is not your case though) is that any guy hitting on them triggers their innate hysteria and pavlovian conditioning (gay guy > must react with: hysterical eww - the more theatrical the better the other monkeys will praise you). It's funny how you underline exactly this by comparing your reaction to Ashley, a female flirting with you, to your reaction to Kaidan, a male flirting with you. The hypocrisy and double standard these people have the audacity to parade as "normal" is outstanding. Look at the way Steve approached it with Shepard, it was subtle and did not feel out of place, like he was feeling Shepard out before making a full on pass. Kaiden just charged right in with the same dialog whether you were romancing him or not. Ash had different dialog based on whether you were or weren't romancing her. It probably doesn't help that Kaiden shows no signs of being gay until you met him at the cafe, and that he was interested in Liara in ME1. And I am making a comparison on how it was handled between two similar character arcs. You are the one making the distinction between male vs female. I am comparing two characters that follow almost the same exact story through ME2-ME3. This is why I usually avoid these types of threads, people turn it to a social debate. I could care less how someone else lives their life as long as they don't force their life style on me or anyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 13:42:50 GMT
Kaidan didn't come on strong. Anyone with half a brain cell still functioning can see that watching all his scenes. Problem for homophobe morons (I'm sure this is not your case though) is that any guy hitting on them triggers their innate hysteria and pavlovian conditioning (gay guy > must react with: hysterical eww - the more theatrical the better the other monkeys will praise you). It's funny how you underline exactly this by comparing your reaction to Ashley, a female flirting with you, to your reaction to Kaidan, a male flirting with you. The hypocrisy and double standard these people have the audacity to parade as "normal" is outstanding. Look at the way Steve approached it with Shepard, it was subtle and did not feel out of place, like he was feeling Shepard out before making a full on pass. Kaiden just charged right in with the same dialog whether you were romancing him or not. Ash had different dialog based on whether you were or weren't romancing her. It probably doesn't help that Kaiden shows no signs of being gay until you met him at the cafe, and that he was interested in Liara in ME1. And I am making a comparison on how it was handled between two similar character arcs. You are the one making the distinction between male vs female. I am comparing two characters that follow almost the same exact story through ME2-ME3. This is why I usually avoid these types of threads, people turn it to a social debate. I could care less how someone else lives their life as long as they don't force their life style on me or anyone else. "forcing their life style"....yea sure you are no homophobe:) go back to avoiding those types of threads please.
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