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Post by opuspace on Aug 12, 2016 16:37:05 GMT
Isn't cereal mostly sugar nowadays? Don't get me wrong, it really hits the spot when you want something sweet with milk, but wouldn't protein like eggs with avocado be better if you're prepping for a long day? Ok, separate question, should a couple live together before getting married or is it bunk? I've never been very religious, so that idea has never really affected me in any way. Personally, I say it's bunk, for me. That said, if someone is faithful, and wants to respect their faith, whether it be Christian, or Jewish, or whatever, then I'm all for them following whatever guidelines they desire. That said, the odds are that person's not right for me, personally, as a partner. Honestly, even the concept of marriage is something I'm somewhat indifferent about. I like the idea of a vow to one another, and a ceremony for friends and family, but I'm content without going through the formality as well. The reason I was given for why you should not live with your partner before marriage was a little odder. Something about how it diminishes a relationship compared to when you're legally committed. I started asking, isn't that the point? To test the relationship before you shell out serious cash for a wedding? Even a modest one can be pricey.
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Post by NextGenCowboy on Aug 12, 2016 16:42:17 GMT
I've never heard of that before. I don't subscribe to that idea, for sure, but I also think people should do what makes them and their partner comfortable and happy. If a couple feels that way, and commits to it, then I'm sincerely glad. I'd just hope they're doing it because they truly believe it, and not purely out of tradition and fear, because that could hurt a relationship down the line.
Not that tradition has no part to play, but relationships are more complex than a basic set of rules to be followed, at least in my experience.
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Aug 12, 2016 16:56:08 GMT
I'll just add this to your weapon discussion. Knife is a weapon. In my country knives are used in over 50% of murders.
Follow up question: How would you cut stuff if you weren't allowed to own knives (or scissors)?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 16:56:28 GMT
I'm with Giant Ambush Beetle on this one. First off, I think General's last comment above is potentially the most dangerous concept in the entire conversation - the taking away of rights NEVER ends well, because, once you allow rights to start being taken away, well, it never ENDS. And I don't actually own (or possess!) a gun. Have never had the time or money to invest in the process. Plus I tend not to think much about self-defense (I possibly have some sort of immortality complex, having traipsed alone, unarmed, and unharmed through many places whose names cause many of my less-traveled fellow Americans to shudder and go wide-eyed - Beirut, Damascus, Istanbul, Amman, Cairo, New Jersey, Disneyworld...) Besides, if nobody should have access to anything that could potentially be used to harm another, we'd all just be naked, possessionless, toothless quadruple amputees laying around... (Which goes around to the first point - where does it stop?!)
To me... these are the things which are morally wrong...
- Killing people... that is NEVER ok... if youre ok with killing someone you shouldnt own a gun and if youre not ok with killing someone then you can use a replica to deter people
- Killing animals... that is NEVER ok... if youre wanting to kill animals you shouldnt own a gun and if you dont want to kill animals um... its a bit pointless really animals should only be killed as a necessity by some kind of authority I think
- LETTING bad people kill other people... which is basically what youre doing by letting them own guns... and no matter how strict your laws are bad people will still be given guns...
- Owning something designed for warfare... self explanatory really things for military use shouldnt go to civilians for safety reasons
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Aug 12, 2016 16:59:07 GMT
Shooting animals isnt ok! They have the right to live just as we do... it might be necessary but it ISNT ok EVER Shooting animals is ok, as I pointed out in this day and age forests do not survive without hunting. Also, humans have been killing and eating animals since we have evolved from apes, eating meat is one of the things that allowed us to develop a culture, grow more brains and get a higher intellect. The caloric density of meat is so big after a successful hunt people had spare time to develop technology, a culture, art and civilization. If you are gathering plants all day long - which is what you need to do to stay fed if you ware vegetarian in the stone age- you do not have time to develop anything. Also you do not need much brains to graze, hence why the majority of herbivores stayed relatively dumb throughout the ages. Also hunting brought people together and act as a group, strengthening the development of civilizations and tribes. You should be thankful for all your predecessors killing animals and eating meat. Suddenly saying its not ok to kill animals and eating meat is bad is nothing but a luxury and to be frank, quite stupid. - Owning something designed for warfare... self explanatory really things for military use shouldnt go to civilians for safety reasons
Civilians in Switzerland are allowed to own fully automatic machine guns and heavy machine guns. They are also allowed to bring home their assault rifle after having done their mandatory time in the military. Peopel in the US aren't allowed to own any of those guns. How many shootings are there in Switzerland? Shooting sprees have a lot to do with the health care system and the wealth of the people, not the guns. Most of the people involved in shooting sprees have a history of mental health issues and questionable infamous psycho pharmacies. Or questionable world views and religions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 16:59:24 GMT
I'll just add this to your weapon discussion. Knife is a weapon. In my country knives are used in over 50% of murders. Follow up question: How would you cut stuff if you weren't allowed to own knives (or scissors)?
Most knives are used for like cooking purposes... only a few types are used for you know stabbing people so not what im talking about really
Ummmmmm your question... my nails???
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 17:04:53 GMT
Shooting animals isnt ok! They have the right to live just as we do... it might be necessary but it ISNT ok EVER Shooting animals is ok, as I pointed out in this day and age forests do not survive without hunting. Also, humans have been killing and eating animals since we have evolved from apes, eating meat is one of the things that allowed us to develop a culture, grow more brains and get a higher intellect. The caloric density of meat is so big after a successful hunt people had spare time to develop technology, a culture, art and civilization. If you are gathering plants all day long - which is what you need to do to stay fed if you ware vegetarian in the stone age- you do not have time to develop anything. Also you do not need much brains to graze, hence why the majority of herbivores stayed relatively dumb throughout the ages. Also hunting brought people together and act as a group, strengthening the development of civilizations and tribes. You should be thankful for all your predecessors killing animals and eating meat. Suddenly saying its not ok to kill animals and eating meat is bad is nothing but a luxury and to be frank, quite stupid.
Shooting animals isnt ok... if animals are gonna die then do it in a better way I think... im fine with people eating animals what you want to eat is your decision BUT animals shouldnt be killed by average people I think
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Aug 12, 2016 17:09:23 GMT
Shooting animals isnt ok... if animals are gonna die then do it in a better way I think... im fine with people eating animals what you want to eat is your decision BUT animals shouldnt be killed by average people I think Ah, and how are you going to hunt animals more efficiently and ethically than with a rifle? If you hit the heart lung area the animals brain will be out of oxygen in a couple of seconds, before it really knows what hit it and before it can feel the full range of pain. This is state of the art and it does not get more ethically than that, hunting has never been more ethical than it is now. And there is no average person, people are individuals. I'm no more average than you are.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 17:16:59 GMT
Shooting animals isnt ok... if animals are gonna die then do it in a better way I think... im fine with people eating animals what you want to eat is your decision BUT animals shouldnt be killed by average people I think Ah, and how are you going to hunt animals more efficiently and ethically than with a rifle? If you hit the heart lung area the animals brain will be out of oxygen in a couple of seconds, before it really knows what hit it and before it can feel the full range of pain. This is state of the art and it does not get more ethically than that, hunting has never been more ethical than it is now. And there is no average person, people are individuals. I'm no more average than you are.
By rifles in the hands of people who arent civilians
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Aug 12, 2016 17:18:01 GMT
Ah, and how are you going to hunt animals more efficiently and ethically than with a rifle? If you hit the heart lung area the animals brain will be out of oxygen in a couple of seconds, before it really knows what hit it and before it can feel the full range of pain. This is state of the art and it does not get more ethically than that, hunting has never been more ethical than it is now. And there is no average person, people are individuals. I'm no more average than you are.
By rifles in the hands of people who arent civilians
Now you're trolling.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 12, 2016 17:19:08 GMT
On the topic of guns: While I would say that most of us probably agree that killing people is bad in an ideal world, it's not quite so easily looked at in black and white in the world we live in.
The reality is that bad people exist. People who aren't going to be deterred by a replica and who are going to try to kill you no matter what you do and who are going to get their hands on weapons no matter what.
So while I don't want to kill anybody if I could pull the trigger to stop somebody from killing dozens or hundreds of innocent people? I'll take that shot a thousand times over.
but as a Canadian I would be sure to apologize for shooting them afterwards.
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Post by ibnshisha on Aug 12, 2016 17:19:10 GMT
I'm with Giant Ambush Beetle on this one. First off, I think General's last comment above is potentially the most dangerous concept in the entire conversation - the taking away of rights NEVER ends well, because, once you allow rights to start being taken away, well, it never ENDS. And I don't actually own (or possess!) a gun. Have never had the time or money to invest in the process. Plus I tend not to think much about self-defense (I possibly have some sort of immortality complex, having traipsed alone, unarmed, and unharmed through many places whose names cause many of my less-traveled fellow Americans to shudder and go wide-eyed - Beirut, Damascus, Istanbul, Amman, Cairo, New Jersey, Disneyworld...) Besides, if nobody should have access to anything that could potentially be used to harm another, we'd all just be naked, possessionless, toothless quadruple amputees laying around... (Which goes around to the first point - where does it stop?!)
To me... these are the things which are morally wrong...
- Killing people... that is NEVER ok... if youre ok with killing someone you shouldnt own a gun and if youre not ok with killing someone then you can use a replica to deter people
- Killing animals... that is NEVER ok... if youre wanting to kill animals you shouldnt own a gun and if you dont want to kill animals um... its a bit pointless really animals should only be killed as a necessity by some kind of authority I think
- LETTING bad people kill other people... which is basically what youre doing by letting them own guns... and no matter how strict your laws are bad people will still be given guns...
- Owning something designed for warfare... self explanatory really things for military use shouldnt go to civilians for safety reasons
1)And if the person attacking you is familiar enough the weapon to spot a fake? Just let yourself be killed? (Wow, I'm starting to feel like Perrin) 2)I don't hunt, but I do like to eat game when I have the chance. Some things aren't frequently raised conventionally. 3-4) I think these fundamentally contradict both each other and the argument for a gun ban - if guns are restricted to military and police, no matter how strong the law is those who operate outside the law will still find a way to obtain them. Thus the only thing accomplished is to leave innocent people entirely dependent on being near enough to (an honest) police or military presence that can respond in time to save them
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Aug 12, 2016 17:25:33 GMT
I think these fundamentally contradict both each other and the argument for a gun ban - if guns are restricted to military and police, no matter how strong the law is those who operate outside the law will still find a way to obtain them. Thus the only thing accomplished is to leave innocent people entirely dependent on being near enough to (an honest) police or military presence that can respond in time to save them I live in a rural area and police takes longer than 15 minutes to get here, the ambulance even longer. When there armed people in the house 15 minutes is an eternity and a lot of things can happen in that time. Not far away from where I live an old couple was killed by home invaders in bright daylight so self defense is a thing around here. Hoping for the mercy of the intruders or hoping they get deterred by a fake gun is quite foolish and extremely dangerous.
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Post by Panda on Aug 12, 2016 17:25:54 GMT
I'm against civilians owning guns as well. It's not part of freedom or rights where I'm from, it's not simply a thing. There is expections like shooting ranges and hunting, but guns for those are bit different and it's quite hard to get access to them and usually they are kept on shooting range itself so no handguns etc. on home. If my country can do it and many others can without people feeling like their freedom and rights are limited in anyway I think US can as well. Seeing how often people are shot by guns there I think they should. That's just my take on that.
Also anything can be deadly weapon, for example pillow- but not everything is made to be deadly weapon. Gun doesn't really have purpose outside of shooting people after all (again hunting, shooting hobby etc. are different things).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 17:28:07 GMT
By rifles in the hands of people who arent civilians
Now you're trolling.
No you make getting shot sound painless and dude it isnt... it CAN be... but WILL it be all the time??? Erm no sorry!
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Aug 12, 2016 17:30:00 GMT
Seeing how often people are shot by guns there I think they should. That's just my take on that. The question is, how many of those guns were legally possessed guns? And how many of those shootings were committed by gang members, criminals and ill-doers? I bet a good amount of money that 99,999% of the shootings weren't committed by non-criminals with legally possessed weapons. Why is hunting and shooting hobby a different thing? The VAST majority of guns outside the military and police are used for those things. Now you're trolling.
No you make getting shot sound painless and dude it isnt... it CAN be... but WILL it be all the time??? Erm no sorry!
Exactly how much experience do you have with hunting and knowledge about the wounding mechanics of rifle bullets?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 17:30:50 GMT
I think these fundamentally contradict both each other and the argument for a gun ban - if guns are restricted to military and police, no matter how strong the law is those who operate outside the law will still find a way to obtain them. Thus the only thing accomplished is to leave innocent people entirely dependent on being near enough to (an honest) police or military presence that can respond in time to save them I live in a rural area and police takes longer than 15 minutes to get here, the ambulance even longer. When there armed people in the house 15 minutes is an eternity and a lot of things can happen in that time. Not far away from where I live an old couple was killed by home invaders in bright daylight so self defense is a thing around here. Hoping for the mercy of the intruders or hoping they get deterred by a fake gun is quite foolish and extremely dangerous.
Soooo you need guns because bad people have guns??? if no one had guns you wouldnt need one
I'm against civilians owning guns as well. It's not part of freedom or rights where I'm from, it's not simply a thing. There is expections like shooting ranges and hunting, but guns for those are bit different and it's quite hard to get access to them and usually they are kept on shooting range itself so no handguns etc. on home. If my country can do it and many others can without people feeling like their freedom and rights are limited in anyway I think US can as well. Seeing how often people are shot by guns there I think they should. That's just my take on that. Also anything can be deadly weapon, for example pillow- but not everything is made to be deadly weapon. Gun doesn't really have purpose outside of shooting people after all (again hunting, shooting hobby etc. are different things).
Exactly I agree with that
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Aug 12, 2016 17:35:11 GMT
Soooo you need guns because bad people have guns??? if no one had guns you wouldnt need one Do you know a world where no guns exist? If no gun existed people would be armed with swords or knives and you can bet your money in that I'd own a similar weapon to defend myself. And we would have this conversation but with swords instead of guns.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 17:36:53 GMT
Soooo you need guns because bad people have guns??? if no one had guns you wouldnt need one Do you know a world where no guns exist? If no gun existed people would be armed with swords or knives and you can bet your money in that I'd own a similar weapon to defend myself. And we would have this conversation but with swords instead of guns.
At least then it would need more effort to kill people than the twitch of a finger
And yes we probably would im a pacifist
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 12, 2016 17:37:45 GMT
Soooo you need guns because bad people have guns??? if no one had guns you wouldnt need one While true guns are already out there, and there's no going back at this point. There's no way you'll just get rid of all the guns so nobody has them anymore. I studied martial arts for about 7 years so I'm more then capable of handling myself in hand to hand combat(even if the attacker has a weapon they aren't highly trained in the use of) but the fact remains if they have a gun and I'm at a distance, I'm pretty much hoping that they either miss or the shot isn't fatal.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Aug 12, 2016 17:41:14 GMT
At least then it would need more effort to kill people than the twitch of a finger And yes we probably would im a pacifist Si Vis Pacem Para bellum. If you want peace, prepare for war. I'm a pacifist as well, killing people is idiotic and so are wars. If you are as armed as everyone else you are less likely to be attacked which means peace is more likely.
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Post by Panda on Aug 12, 2016 17:43:58 GMT
Seeing how often people are shot by guns there I think they should. That's just my take on that. The question is, how many of those guns were legally possessed guns? And how many of those shootings were committed by gang members, criminals and ill-doers? I bet a good amount of money that 99,999% of the shootings weren't committed by non-criminals with legally possessed weapons. Why is hunting and shooting hobby a different thing? The VAST majority of guns outside the military and police are used for those things. Not all of course, but how often there is accidents or shootings by legally possessed guns? If getting gun is legally easy then that number is going to be quite high. It's different cause different purpose. Also when asking permit for gun here you have to declare purpose for the gun- either hunting or hobby (collecting needs special permit) and then give prove that you are hunter or that shooting is your hobby (membership card etc.) so getting one isn't easy. You have to prove that you aren't going to misuse it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 17:53:48 GMT
At least then it would need more effort to kill people than the twitch of a finger And yes we probably would im a pacifist Si Vis Pacem Para bellum. If you want peace, prepare for war. I'm a pacifist as well, killing people is idiotic and so are wars. If you are as armed as everyone else you are less likely to be attacked which means peace is more likely.
Um in a everyone has guns v no one has guns world im sure which one id rather live in thanks
I think were not gonna convince each other so um we probably should stop people owning guns isnt ok to me so um yeah
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Post by Skelly on Aug 12, 2016 18:10:47 GMT
Do you eat "typical" breakfast foods for breakfast? My mom always encouraged me to eat whatever I want for breakfast, and I'm not big on things like cereal and toast, and I can't face fish or seafood first thing in the morning...but everything else is fair game, sweet or savoury. One of my favourite breakfasts is leftover beef stew. Isn't cereal mostly sugar nowadays? Don't get me wrong, it really hits the spot when you want something sweet with milk, but wouldn't protein like eggs with avocado be better if you're prepping for a long day? Ok, separate question, should a couple live together before getting married or is it bunk? Well, at the very least I'm living proof that living together before marriage is hardly a necessity. Mr. Skelly and I did not, for our own reasons, and we celebrated ten years of marriage this past spring. So if someone tells you that you HAVE to live together as a test-drive or whatever, well, I'll give them some serious side-eye.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Aug 12, 2016 18:12:47 GMT
The question is, how many of those guns were legally possessed guns? And how many of those shootings were committed by gang members, criminals and ill-doers? I bet a good amount of money that 99,999% of the shootings weren't committed by non-criminals with legally possessed weapons. Why is hunting and shooting hobby a different thing? The VAST majority of guns outside the military and police are used for those things. Not all of course, but how often there is accidents or shootings by legally possessed guns? If getting gun is legally easy then that number is going to be quite high. It's different cause different purpose. Also when asking permit for gun here you have to declare purpose for the gun- either hunting or hobby (collecting needs special permit) and then give prove that you are hunter or that shooting is your hobby (membership card etc.) so getting one isn't easy. You have to prove that you aren't going to misuse it. There are extremely few gun accidents and shootings with legally possessed guns, at least around here according to the media. The news in my country is nothing more than a branch of the government which would love to tighten gun control. They jump onto stuff with legal guns like crazy yet cases are extremely rare, like less than 1 case per year. We have the same laws around here by the way, you have to have a specific reason to own a gun but I can't really see how this would prevent any misuse. Um in a everyone has guns v no one has guns world im sure which one id rather live in thanks I think were not gonna convince each other so um we probably should stop people owning guns isnt ok to me so um yeah I find you are extremely ill informed about the matter and your argumentation dangerous, but yes, lets agree to disagree.
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