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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 14, 2017 20:32:19 GMT
From Official Xbox Magazine and GamesRadar: And from GameRantSo basically I imagine that for comparison's sake it's like Cory in DA:I where some underling like Calpernia or Samson is not perfectly allied with him but then no matter how the story plays out we get something akin to the Templar-side storyline in DA:I where there actually was a quest about finding out more about Corypheus which added to the plot IMO. But I also expect they'll somehow feature Archon more in general than Corybory. I get a little bit of Saren vibes from Archon. It also says he's sort of the Kett leader but his goal isn't necessarily to wipe out humans. As implied in the trailer he's probably out for his own goals and as humans arrive he wants them to surrender because he considers them a threat to whatever he seeks. It is hopefully an actual conflict and not just us beating the shit out of the Archon at every turn while he cartoonishly stumbles to make his plan work. Lastly, b-storyline does not imply it won't matter. It probably means that there's a branch of the main quest where it's not all heavily scripted missions where you're more just landing on planets and looking for clues or talking to people in a chain-quest that reveals more about Archon. I imagine it will be mandatory but I can't actually remember if the Calpernia subplot in DA:I was required or not. EDIT: I added spoiler flairs for whenever I wasn't speculating.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 20:39:51 GMT
I'm sure it's an interesting read and all but the thread title is very spoilery. Could you change it, please. The spoiler rules thread states very clearly not to put spoilers in titles.
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 14, 2017 20:41:48 GMT
I imagine the Archon will be a religious leader. Like the Ketts version of a pope.
Though we'll find out that not all Kett subscribe to these popular religious beliefs and have faced persecution to the point where we find ourselves taking part in a factions rebellion.
Side stories can range from witnessing inquisitions, to uncovering shadow organizations within the religious organization itself. Doing quests that reveal the origins of the current Archon, and what deeds he's had to accomplish to elevate himself while also clawing back power from outsiders who wish to convert his people.
Though of course I'm completely pulling this out of my booty
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Post by helios969 on Feb 15, 2017 1:13:32 GMT
I'm particularly pleased that some quest lines will span multiple worlds. I just hope the writing (with cutscenes) is there and/or not been reduced to Astrarium/Shard collection.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 15, 2017 1:17:43 GMT
I'm particularly pleased that some quest lines will span multiple worlds. I just hope the writing (with cutscenes) is there and/or not been reduced to Astrarium/Shard collection. Even DA:I had cutscenes inside the exploration areas and main quest objectives like Western Approach and Crestwood and the Grey Wardens. It was just such a small chunk of it. I hope there's more of that here. They have emphasized it a few times so I hope it's not just them trying to cool down the heat about DA:I being shitty but they're actually making an improved game by comparison.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 15, 2017 1:22:06 GMT
I'm particularly pleased that some quest lines will span multiple worlds. I just hope the writing (with cutscenes) is there and/or not been reduced to Astrarium/Shard collection. Even DA:I had cutscenes inside the exploration areas and main quest objectives like Western Approach and Crestwood and the Grey Wardens. It was just such a small chunk of it. I hope there's more of that here. They have emphasized it a few times so I hope it's not just them trying to cool down the heat about DA:I being shitty but they're actually making an improved game by comparison. Not nearly enough imo. They tried to go on the cheap with that 3rd type of NPC interaction. Jaws of Hakkon was an improvement on story within a large area, but the lack of cutscenes cheapened the experience...again imo.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 15, 2017 1:26:22 GMT
100% agree. If it were up to me I would have went with ME1's approach to cinematic design all the way throughout the trilogy and then applied it to DA:I and also ME:A, but BioWare has been experimenting with that for a while.
Actually, as much as there are budgetary constraints, I believe the reason we see less cinematic dialogue in modern BioWare games is just as much because the former Lead Cinematic Designer Armando Troisi left after ME2. He had a conference at the time explaining exactly what conventions he had established to guide the team making the cutscenes and the dialogue, which was a very good system, and also what created the overall approach to choices in ME2. He seemed like a super professional and talented dude and I have the impression that the people they've had since then are not quite of the same caliber.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 15, 2017 1:26:37 GMT
I hope he's portrayed in a more... for lack of a better word, human manner than Corypheus. There was almost no nuance there. It'd be more interesting if the Archon was more like the villains of DA2 or like Loghain from DA:O, where even though he's an antagonist, there's more to it than just murder for the sake of murder. With the Arishok, he had to deal with struggling against his religious code. With Meredith and Orsino, they had to deal with their own respective ideals on the matter of magic and pushback against implementing them. And so on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 1:30:07 GMT
So we'll have secondary quests that in turn progresses as we complete main quests, I assume. Similar to Dragon Age 2.
And they will probably be important to the result of the final mission.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 15, 2017 1:33:38 GMT
Mac did use the word "nuanced" but that was in comparison to the Reapers. But being a leader of the Kett which is a people and not a horde of demons and Archon being one of his own, I imagine and hope they've given him some properly fleshed out motivation and not made him too "I'm so evil, listen to how evil I am" every time he speaks. Even so it can work. I liked Eredin in Witcher 3 even though he was a letdown to be honest. He worked becuase he was actually just a person and not some super-god and he had a reasonable motive for being the bad guy albeit completely egotistical and he was portrayed in a one-sided way and spouting villanous lines like a cartoon character, but to me it worked becuase he had presence. That's the thing the Archon needs. He needs to be fucking present in the story multiple times before you beat him and he has to seem menacing and not like some vague threat everyone keeps talking about. The worst thing about DA:I was how right after the first encounter everyone goes "We have to stop Corypheus, or else!" -- almost every companion talks about him that way and you're just like "that weird abomination dude? What is so bad about him?" It didn't help that you actually don't get a formal introduction to him. The first time you hear the name "Corypheus" is when you wake up after the first encounter and Mother Giselle calls him Corypheus. The player has no knowledge of who "Corypheus" is. He was called "The Elder One" in all scenes prior to that, which is a writing mistake. A similar thing happened with "The Prothean Device" vs "The Crucible" in ME3. If you do some side-missions too early you start getting emails about "The Crucible" before Hackett reveals the name. So we'll have secondary quests that in turn progresses as we complete main quests, I assume. Similar to Dragon Age 2. And they will probably be important to the result of the final mission. This would be nice. I'm however thinking more akin to the Temple of Dumat questline in DA:I.
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 15, 2017 1:48:19 GMT
I imagine the Archon will be a religious leader. Like the Ketts version of a pope. Though we'll find out that not all Kett subscribe to these popular religious beliefs and have faced persecution to the point where we find ourselves taking part in a factions rebellion. Side stories can range from witnessing inquisitions, to uncovering shadow organizations within the religious organization itself. Doing quests that reveal the origins of the current Archon, and what deeds he's had to accomplish to elevate himself while also clawing back power from outsiders who wish to convert his people. Though of course I'm completely pulling this out of my booty I was about to say "this guy has some serious intellectual chops."
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 15, 2017 1:51:23 GMT
100% agree. If it were up to me I would have went with ME1's approach to cinematic design all the way throughout the trilogy and then applied it to DA:I and also ME:A, but BioWare has been experimenting with that for a while. Actually, as much as there are budgetary constraints, I believe the reason we see less cinematic dialogue in modern BioWare games is just as much because the former Lead Cinematic Designer Armando Troisi left after ME2. He had a conference at the time explaining exactly what conventions he had established to guide the team making the cutscenes and the dialogue, which was a very good system, and also what created the overall approach to choices in ME2. He seemed like a super professional and talented dude and I have the impression that the people they've had since then are not quite of the same caliber. Would the Inquisition settle for "average"? I don't think so. Get someone who can do a superb job in this area because the fans clearly want the money spent in that direction.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 15, 2017 1:56:49 GMT
I don't think Armando Troisi's direction was one everyone at BioWare agreed on. There must be a reason they thought Patrick Weekes making "ambient quests" and "ambient conversations" in ME3 was a totally great idea. Just browse his Twitter from the ME3 days. He was proud of those "I need my Turian fossil! I wish someone could go scan a planet for me" quests and they used those poorly-designed ideas as the main system for the game. They actively pursued an inferior quest-design. They actually think what they made was great if it wasn't for fans telling them they didn't like it.
I don't think it's entirely budget-based. It's something BioWare actively wants. It's not uncommon. Bethesda also had some absolutely baffling design-management on Fallout 4. They had their level designers write stories for quests and stuff, it's not unheard of for RPG developers to be totally tonedeaf when they design quest systems.
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Post by illusivecake on Feb 15, 2017 1:57:18 GMT
I imagine the Archon will be a religious leader. Like the Ketts version of a pope. Though we'll find out that not all Kett subscribe to these popular religious beliefs and have faced persecution to the point where we find ourselves taking part in a factions rebellion. Side stories can range from witnessing inquisitions, to uncovering shadow organizations within the religious organization itself. Doing quests that reveal the origins of the current Archon, and what deeds he's had to accomplish to elevate himself while also clawing back power from outsiders who wish to convert his people. Though of course I'm completely pulling this out of my booty Personally I'd prefer it if the Archon had more political motivations rather than religious. Perhaps he's a reformist of some type? Or maybe the Kett are traditionally isolationists and the Archon and his followers want to change that and start expanding or even reclaiming territory that once belonged to them but they lost due to some past conflict... idk, just some thoughts I'm particularly pleased that some quest lines will span multiple worlds. I just hope the writing (with cutscenes) is there and/or not been reduced to Astrarium/Shard collection.Or reduced to a codex entry.. I can't tell you how much I missed because I didn't peruse all the reading material in DA:I
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 15, 2017 1:58:42 GMT
I imagine the Archon will be a religious leader. Like the Ketts version of a pope. Though we'll find out that not all Kett subscribe to these popular religious beliefs and have faced persecution to the point where we find ourselves taking part in a factions rebellion. Side stories can range from witnessing inquisitions, to uncovering shadow organizations within the religious organization itself. Doing quests that reveal the origins of the current Archon, and what deeds he's had to accomplish to elevate himself while also clawing back power from outsiders who wish to convert his people. Though of course I'm completely pulling this out of my booty Personally I'd prefer it if the Archon had more political motivations rather than religious. Perhaps he's a reformist of some type? Or maybe the Kett are traditionally isolationists and the Archon and his followers want to change that and start expanding or even reclaiming territory that once belonged to them but they lost due to some past conflict... idk, just some thoughts I'm particularly pleased that some quest lines will span multiple worlds. I just hope the writing (with cutscenes) is there and/or not been reduced to Astrarium/Shard collection. Or reduced to a codex entry.. I can't tell you how much I missed because I didn't peruse all the reading material in DA:IThis is just as much because the font and UI design of the codex screen was fucking awful.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 15, 2017 2:00:53 GMT
I imagine the Archon will be a religious leader. Like the Ketts version of a pope. Though we'll find out that not all Kett subscribe to these popular religious beliefs and have faced persecution to the point where we find ourselves taking part in a factions rebellion. Side stories can range from witnessing inquisitions, to uncovering shadow organizations within the religious organization itself. Doing quests that reveal the origins of the current Archon, and what deeds he's had to accomplish to elevate himself while also clawing back power from outsiders who wish to convert his people. Though of course I'm completely pulling this out of my booty Personally I'd prefer it if the Archon had more political motivations rather than religious. Perhaps he's a reformist of some type? Or maybe the Kett are traditionally isolationists and the Archon and his followers want to change that and start expanding or even reclaiming territory that once belonged to them but they lost due to some past conflict... idk, just some thoughts I'm particularly pleased that some quest lines will span multiple worlds. I just hope the writing (with cutscenes) is there and/or not been reduced to Astrarium/Shard collection.Or reduced to a codex entry.. I can't tell you how much I missed because I didn't peruse all the reading material in DA:I God, yes, thanks for bring that up. I absolutely hate that sort of thing. And that's a super big no, no in storytelling. Show, don't tell.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 15, 2017 2:08:24 GMT
I think rule of thumb for me with this game regardless will be "don't feel forced to accept every quest". I enjoyed the last playthrough I did of DA:I where I had Trespasser to end it off with after a full playthrough for the first time because I only did a handful of quests per area and I looked upon it as "pick 3 out of the 6 available zones and focus on those" rather than to be completionist and I ended up with 40-60 hours of playtime and it wasn't half-bad for once. By avoiding shard-collection, bad fetch-quests and only sticking to the somewhat story-driven side-quests and then only main content and companion content it actually started to feel like a BioWare game again.
I think it's just important to remember that even if there's upgrade systems and whatnot in Andromeda completing all side-quests probably don't lead to a better ending. It's more about the upgrades or companion progression and main quest choices that determine those things and side-quests are just that: side quests, so don't go trying to clear the map of every zone just to end up feeling tired about the game.
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 15, 2017 2:21:37 GMT
I imagine the Archon will be a religious leader. Like the Ketts version of a pope. Though we'll find out that not all Kett subscribe to these popular religious beliefs and have faced persecution to the point where we find ourselves taking part in a factions rebellion. Side stories can range from witnessing inquisitions, to uncovering shadow organizations within the religious organization itself. Doing quests that reveal the origins of the current Archon, and what deeds he's had to accomplish to elevate himself while also clawing back power from outsiders who wish to convert his people. Though of course I'm completely pulling this out of my booty Personally I'd prefer it if the Archon had more political motivations rather than religious. Perhaps he's a reformist of some type? Or maybe the Kett are traditionally isolationists and the Archon and his followers want to change that and start expanding or even reclaiming territory that once belonged to them but they lost due to some past conflict... idk, just some thoughts I mainly guess at the religious angle from There was a picture of Kett enemies named "Chosen" and "Anointed" afraid to post, cause not sure if codes within the spoiler tag breaks things. Also, Archon has some religious use, but not exclusive
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 15, 2017 2:24:28 GMT
Personally I'd prefer it if the Archon had more political motivations rather than religious. Perhaps he's a reformist of some type? Or maybe the Kett are traditionally isolationists and the Archon and his followers want to change that and start expanding or even reclaiming territory that once belonged to them but they lost due to some past conflict... idk, just some thoughts I mainly guess at the religious angle from There was a picture of Kett enemies named "Chosen" and "Anointed" afraid to post, cause not sure if codes within the spoiler tag breaks things. Also, Archon has some religious use, but not exclusive Could be a good ol' mix of both like the chantry. Reminds me of Protoss from SC, honestly.
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Post by Mihura on Feb 15, 2017 2:25:33 GMT
Oh that sounds really good, I am all for some b-quests that gives you a good look at the world and NPCs. I love that in DA2 and I am glad they are doing it again. Now all we need is top notch writing.
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Post by illusivecake on Feb 15, 2017 3:11:59 GMT
Personally I'd prefer it if the Archon had more political motivations rather than religious. Perhaps he's a reformist of some type? Or maybe the Kett are traditionally isolationists and the Archon and his followers want to change that and start expanding or even reclaiming territory that once belonged to them but they lost due to some past conflict... idk, just some thoughts I mainly guess at the religious angle from There was a picture of Kett enemies named "Chosen" and "Anointed" afraid to post, cause not sure if codes within the spoiler tag breaks things. Also, Archon has some religious use, but not exclusive well crap. I vaguely recall hearing about this, now that you mention it. I still really hope it's not gonna be the chantry in space though.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 15, 2017 6:05:33 GMT
100% agree. If it were up to me I would have went with ME1's approach to cinematic design all the way throughout the trilogy and then applied it to DA:I and also ME:A, but BioWare has been experimenting with that for a while. Actually, as much as there are budgetary constraints, I believe the reason we see less cinematic dialogue in modern BioWare games is just as much because the former Lead Cinematic Designer Armando Troisi left after ME2. He had a conference at the time explaining exactly what conventions he had established to guide the team making the cutscenes and the dialogue, which was a very good system, and also what created the overall approach to choices in ME2. He seemed like a super professional and talented dude and I have the impression that the people they've had since then are not quite of the same caliber. Personally, I think that in terms of overall cinematic design, ME3's was probably the best, because there were instances where the cutscene would actually mesh right into the gameplay which I found pretty enjoyable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 6:25:42 GMT
I absolutely love this! I can't wait to see what happens! I never tire of quests in games. Glad to know this game will keep me playing for months (especially after the dev comment about the size of the quest journal)!
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Post by amleth on Feb 15, 2017 19:11:26 GMT
The fact that its called a B-storyline worries me. Seems like Bioware sees it as side content and isn't really putting much effort into them/ All content should be treated the same imo.
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Post by ames4u on Feb 16, 2017 2:05:21 GMT
I'd prefer if they made the whole situation more of a grey area than a flat out black and white one like they did in DAI. Cory was one of the worst parts about it. He wasn't intimidating or threatening, he was a joke of an antagonist and couldn't be taken seriously. Especially considering he got his @ss whooped in a DLC. It's difficult to take him seriously. I genuinely thought he was the real big bads cabana boy and it hit me like a ton of bricks that he was the main big bad and I was extremely disappointed. We went from a dragon god speaking in tongues to a power rangers villain and decided the saturday morning cartoon villain was the way to go? What was worse than that was the way he stumbled cartoonishly from one scene to another behaving like he stood a chance even though his plans were failing in quick succession (when you could skip the hours long b*tch questing in an empty sandbox to get to it that is.) What's that? Oh I see, we kicked your @ss several times but this time we stand no chance. They had plenty to go on. Why didn't none of the mages I recruited get turned as Viv warned us they could? Why didn't the templars? I chose to keep a few templars trained in secret for just such an eventuality but it came to nothing? None of the mages found out and took issue with this? Uh-huh, sure, so what was the damn point then? 'Your choices matter' my pasty white @ss. The Reapers were a tangible and serious threat but dropped the ball in the third game. Just make our interactions and choices have a bit more weight to them this time and don't make the main antagonist a giant pansy.
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