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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 26, 2017 18:34:28 GMT
Well guys, the AI thus far isn't impressive especially in the recent Bioware gameplay trailer.
It begs the question of just how AI and difficulty works in this game?
Did they use the easy difficult for all these trailers hence AI retardation or are they just coded badly? Does the AI actually increase in the use of tactics, hiding, dodging, taking cover, running away etc... as you increase difficulty? Do they become more aggressive and strategical? Do they stop Zerg rushing when in higher difficulty?
Funny thing about the fiend is that it's supposed to Zerg rush you but it doesn't according to the last gameplay trailer.
ME3 had pretty alright AI concerning Cerberus enemies since they'd actually dodge biotic attacks but not so here with MEA and what we've seen.
Typically with games AI does not become more intelligent and challenging when you increase difficulty, they just get buffs.
And that's what I'm concerned about, MEA AI might stay dumb no matter the difficulty.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 26, 2017 18:39:46 GMT
I expect they simply make the enemies do more damage and increase their accuracy. It's the easiest way without making the obvious bullet sponge flashing sign by extending their HP/Shield meters
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2017 18:40:45 GMT
Honestly i suspect the game trailers were set on a pretty low difficulty. Ian Frazier commented on this very forum about difficulty and what he described was nothing like what we saw in the trailers so far.
However even in the trailers we saw the protagonist Character nearly die numerous times, the zerg rushing being effective in drawing them out of cover, and snipers taking position on the far end of the base.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 26, 2017 18:42:49 GMT
Honestly i suspect the game trailers were set on a pretty low difficulty. Ian Frazier commented on this very forum about difficulty and what he described was nothing like what we saw in the trailers so far. However even in the trailers we saw the protagonist Character nearly die numerous times, the zerg rushing being effective in drawing them out of cover, and snipers taking position on the far end of the base. Except when you flush or Zerg rush you don't go straight at the enemy unless you want to get cut down. You go around them. The AI looks pretty unimpressive and if Ian being a developer has a vested interest in making the game sound as great as possible. Look at Shaun and Hello Games. Edit: Zerg rushing shouldn't be a job for soldiers. It's a varren or brute type deal and funnily enough the fiend in the gameplay trailer wasn't doing its job. |
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 26, 2017 18:45:46 GMT
I expect they simply make the enemies do more damage and increase their accuracy. It's the easiest way without making the obvious bullet sponge flashing sign by extending their HP/Shield meters So in other words, not at all improving their behaviour. Correct me if I'm wrong but the AI in the last two mass Effect game increased in aggressive/intelligent behaviour as you increase the difficulty. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 26, 2017 18:48:09 GMT
Shinobi commented on this on GAF and said he thinks they set the shown footage to "Narrative" difficulty just to showcase abilities.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2017 18:48:24 GMT
Honestly i suspect the game trailers were set on a pretty low difficulty. Ian Frazier commented on this very forum about difficulty and what he described was nothing like what we saw in the trailers so far. However even in the trailers we saw the protagonist Character nearly die numerous times, the zerg rushing being effective in drawing them out of cover, and snipers taking position on the far end of the base. Except when you flush or Zerg rush you don't go straight at the enemy unless you want to get cut down. You go around them. The AI looks pretty unimpressive and if Ian being a developer has a vested interest in making the game sound as great as possible. Look at Shaun and Hello Games. sure but you were one to three guys. When the bad guys were charging you at the end of the gp trailer, while i did not count them, I'd say Ryder was pretty significantly outnumbered. And since it looked like some of them were using special abilities to absorb damage it's logical to assume the enemy was using tactics. Make their strongest members charge you while snipers and mechs take position when you are flushed out of cover. Obviously they failed but again ib assume this is narrative...or casual at the most. |
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Post by kingjuly on Feb 26, 2017 18:55:49 GMT
As most people seem to agree, the gameplay video was likely set to Narrative difficulty so that they could showcase the powers specifically. Shinobi (and others) have said that the AI is at the very least better than past Bioware games.
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Post by bshep on Feb 26, 2017 18:56:23 GMT
Well guys, the AI thus far isn't impressive especially in the recent Bioware gameplay trailer. It begs the question of just how AI and difficulty works in this game? Did they use the easy difficult for all these trailers hence AI retardation or are they just coded badly? Does the AI actually increase in the use of tactics, hiding, dodging, taking cover, running away etc... as you increase difficulty? Do they become more aggressive and strategical? Do they stop Zerg rushing when in higher difficulty? Funny thing about the fiend is that it's supposed to Zerg rush you but it doesn't according to the last gameplay trailer. ME3 had pretty alright AI concerning Cerberus enemies since they'd actually dodge biotic attacks but not so here with MEA and what we've seen. Typically with games AI does not become more intelligent and challenging when you increase difficulty, they just get buffs. And that's what I'm concerned about, MEA AI might stay dumb no matter the difficulty. I believe Ian or Aaryn said on twitter there was a bug with the fiend in the "Media Build" that they fixed later. Also they most likely put the game on the easy/very easy + turn on god mode to allow them to showcase all the 4 favorites and the 12 powers. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 19:20:00 GMT
Isn't there middleware for this AI stuff? There's middleware for pathfinding, eye tracking, all sorts of things -- why not AI that can be customized, and just plugged in to the game? The author of that software would be raking in cash like it's something that you can rake in, in great quantities.
AI for security personnel, mercenaries securing some perimeter, palace guards, policemen, etc. with customizable levels of reaction, tactics, etc.
It's hard to believe that AI gets programmed from scratch in each game; it can't be done that way.
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Post by fulcrum290 on Feb 26, 2017 19:29:41 GMT
On lower difficulty they only shown the equivalence of Cannibals or Cerberus Trooper, with higher difficulty wave composition looks different. Bioware have confirmed sync-kill unit and we only seen one of them, people can't deal with 2 teleporting Banshees rushing at them or facing 3 Phantoms at once so they probably leave that out.
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 26, 2017 19:34:17 GMT
The AI problems in the trailers have nothing to do with difficult. Changes in the difficult level seldom changes AI behavior in shooters, if ever. What they might change is the frequency enemies throw granades, dodge attacs, some special ability, etc. But not overall behavior.
Any stupid thing enemies do on easy mode you might expect on insanity.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2017 19:37:50 GMT
The AI problems in the trailers have nothing to do with difficult. Changes in the difficult level seldom changes AI behavior in shooters, if ever. What they might change is the frequency enemies throw granades, dodge attacs, some special ability, etc. But not overall behavior. Any stupid thing enemies do on easy mode you might expect on insanity. Even that shouldn't be all that bad then again considering the amount of tdamage the protag took on the easiest difficulty in the trailers. And the fact that the enemy was using effective tactics in places to use against Ryder. Even if they just boosted the bad guy's health a little Ryder would have a lot more difficult time dealing with said bad guys. And even if they made the Fiend faster and actually able to do a charge on higher difficulties, and again I see no reason for them not to, then Ryder would have a hell of a time. |
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 26, 2017 19:41:46 GMT
The AI problems in the trailers have nothing to do with difficult. Changes in the difficult level seldom changes AI behavior in shooters, if ever. What they might change is the frequency enemies throw granades, dodge attacs, some special ability, etc. But not overall behavior. Any stupid thing enemies do on easy mode you might expect on insanity. Even that shouldn't be all that bad then again considering the amount of tdamage the protag took on the easiest difficulty in the trailers. And the fact that the enemy was using effective tactics in places to use against Ryder. Even if they just boosted the bad guy's health a little Ryder would have a lot more difficult time dealing with said bad guys. And even if they made the Fiend faster and actually able to do a charge on higher difficulties, and again I see no reason for them not to, then Ryder would have a hell of a time. That's what I meant in another topic. AI alone doesn't make the combat, but it can eventually break it (like Crysis 2). I don't think it will be the case though. MEA's combat in this last trailers looked quite good, give or take some oddities. |
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Post by Wulfram on Feb 26, 2017 19:59:59 GMT
Aaryn Flynn has said on neogaf www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346752&page=10"Yes this is actually becoming a problem for us. We've been capturing on lower difficulty settings, but we don't want to give the impression the game is "easy". Far from it. Our Lead Designer tells me Normal is balanced similar to ME3, but Insanity gets REALLY hard. |
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 26, 2017 20:02:02 GMT
AI will be fine. Gameplay footage is on easy/narrative, you can even tell by how little damage they're doing to Ryder's shields. Horizon: Zero Dawn has bad AI when fighting humans, and the game is still fun.
Relax.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2017 20:05:05 GMT
Aaryn Flynn has said on neogaf www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346752&page=10"Yes this is actually becoming a problem for us. We've been capturing on lower difficulty settings, but we don't want to give the impression the game is "easy". Far from it. Our Lead Designer tells me Normal is balanced similar to ME3, but Insanity gets REALLY hard. best way to solve this would be to stream the game about launch week. |
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Post by stysiaq on Feb 26, 2017 20:05:46 GMT
Aaryn Flynn has said on neogaf www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346752&page=10"Yes this is actually becoming a problem for us. We've been capturing on lower difficulty settings, but we don't want to give the impression the game is "easy". Far from it. Our Lead Designer tells me Normal is balanced similar to ME3, but Insanity gets REALLY hard. that's good to hear. If anything may distract me from PeeBee looking like Shrek let it be high difficulty. I mean the sense of what a difficult game has changed over the years, but hey, hope dies last! |
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Post by missileglitcher on Feb 26, 2017 20:07:32 GMT
AI retardation is a direct and inevitable consequence of game developer retardation. We're talking horribad coding and mental retardation on a scale that you've never previously seen. We're talking mass effect 2 times a hundred, that's how huge of a blunder this game is. Bioware won't have it any other way. Instead of hiring more capable developers than what they currently have (which they can easily accomplish by hiring a team of tin cans), they insist on using retarded developers to create the worst games ever. Classic bioware.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 26, 2017 20:12:06 GMT
AI retardation is a direct and inevitable consequence of game developer retardation. We're talking horribad coding and mental retardation on a scale that you've never previously seen. We're talking mass effect 2 times a hundred, that's how huge of a blunder this game is. Bioware won't have it any other way. Instead of hiring more capable developers than what they currently have (which they can easily accomplish by hiring a team of tin cans), they insist on using retarded developers to create the worst games ever. Classic bioware. You know....I get that opinions, both positive and negative, are welcome on the new BSN. But can we at least have some standards mods? |
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Post by Wulfram on Feb 26, 2017 20:14:00 GMT
Aaryn Flynn has said on neogaf www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346752&page=10"Yes this is actually becoming a problem for us. We've been capturing on lower difficulty settings, but we don't want to give the impression the game is "easy". Far from it. Our Lead Designer tells me Normal is balanced similar to ME3, but Insanity gets REALLY hard. best way to solve this would be to stream the game about launch week. Loads of people will be playing the game via that EA Access thingy before launch, so this issue should be largely cleared up before the actual launch |
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Post by missileglitcher on Feb 26, 2017 20:14:55 GMT
AI retardation is a direct and inevitable consequence of game developer retardation. We're talking horribad coding and mental retardation on a scale that you've never previously seen. We're talking mass effect 2 times a hundred, that's how huge of a blunder this game is. Bioware won't have it any other way. Instead of hiring more capable developers than what they currently have (which they can easily accomplish by hiring a team of tin cans), they insist on using retarded developers to create the worst games ever. Classic bioware. You know....I get that opinions, both positive and negative, are welcome on the new BSN. But can we at least have some standards mods? Why do you need the internet police to come to your rescue? You don't need to kiss their asses, it's tacky and just plain gay. |
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Post by Rico01 on Feb 26, 2017 20:15:51 GMT
You know....I get that opinions, both positive and negative, are welcome on the new BSN. But can we at least have some standards mods? There is an easy way to deal with this: ignore. As for the AI... I don't really care. I'm bad at FPS games in general and I wouldn't catch a bad tactic from an enemy if it was laid out to me in plain text. I close my eyes, shoot at enemies and hope one or more bullets hit the mark. Good AI would crush me  |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 26, 2017 20:21:27 GMT
Insanity is really hard he says?
Man with all those progression options, at this rate I may fail my semester.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 26, 2017 20:28:42 GMT
You know....I get that opinions, both positive and negative, are welcome on the new BSN. But can we at least have some standards mods? There is an easy way to deal with this: ignore. She is on ignore after that statement. It's more about preventing other people who don't, from seeing that kind of idiotic low brow troll attempts. |
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