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Post by SpiritVanguard on Aug 17, 2016 3:47:33 GMT
Sure but you need to make a carnage from pretty much everyone to get that ending. Also considering Yes Man tendencies to say everything to anyone who ask imagine the consequencies when the Courier die or if someone else manages to find the robot (just like the Courier did)? I just wish we could play after the main quest... Yeah, Yes Man will mention that but can't you fix that and make him only listen to you or something? I don’t think so. The only change I know of is the one he makes himself.
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
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Post by House Targaryen on Aug 17, 2016 4:10:23 GMT
The Legion sucks, can't stand them. For the longest time I thought it was a dumb move on the developers part on making a faction like Legion, I didn't think it was realistic in the sense that they could exist without destroying themselves or having people rise up against them. But now we have something in the real world that is close to being just like them, ISIS.
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 17, 2016 4:22:08 GMT
I enjoy the Legion for what it was.
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Post by yan on Aug 17, 2016 12:23:38 GMT
I'm house's man to the bone =p
Imho, Legion is a awesome faction to be the main antagonist. Not perfect, personally I would make some changes in their lore. Women should fight and should be even more fierce than men (just like the Fremens in Dune). Also, all melee attack from a member should give extra poison damage, just like the cazadores. All Legion's campfire, base, station etc should be surrounded by mines. ALL major settlements and factions should have a Legion's Spy (we have at least 3 in the game. A major in the airport, Vulpes in Vegas and a guy in the Dam). Finally, their member should carry more special recipes, like the White Legs.
Their clothes are also not very cool....... but this is just a cosmetic detail.
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Post by crusty on Aug 17, 2016 13:22:17 GMT
The Legion has a concept was great. The idea of a totalitarian dictatorship of ruthless soldiers held together by cult of personality and a man with vision is pretty compelling. I particularly like Caesar's ability to recognise that the Legion in it's current form cannot and will not survive. He needs the conflict with the NCR to change his Legion into a force that can last, Vegas and the Hoover Dam will give him the means to do so.
The problem with the Legion is pretty much with the presentation. Namely, the game lacked far too much Legion related content. It needed it's own settlement, civilians, or more quests and characters (with the foresight/ability of Caesar or Vulpes) to give the player a glimpse of Legion life. All the player sees are war camps, which are understandably much more harsh. We're told that the Legion runs a tight, oppressive, but safe ship. Which is huge for the setting. Yet we never really see that. Making the case for the Legion that much harder to make. It doesn't mean that the Legion is supposed to be sympathetic or morally equivalent to the other choices of course, but siding with the Legion in the game feels like a dumb choice unless you're character is particularly inclined to evil. When it shouldn't have to be.
That's what you get when you have a game the size of New Vegas done in barely a year...
I generally go Independent because there's a heap of variety for the endings depending on your choices, but I have a soft spot for Mr. House, who's my second favourite. Hard to go against the Lee Kuan Yew of Fallout tbh.
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Post by CHRrOME on Aug 17, 2016 13:28:46 GMT
I actually didn't like NW that much. I loved its features though. FO3 was probably my favorite. Loved the quests, loved the map. FO4 is "alright" at best, tons of features that never made it into the game, some dumbed down things here and there, too much crafting... DLCs are gonna end up being a bit disappointing as they added WAY too many workshop stuff instead of actual story content-like DLC. I hope Obsidian gets to make yet another Fallout. As I've said, didn't like NW that much, but appreciated all the features and the story itself was pretty good (just not quite my taste).
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
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Post by House Targaryen on Aug 17, 2016 16:22:46 GMT
House is awesome, he's the only way to go in Vegas.
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 17, 2016 18:24:09 GMT
Sawyer on the Legion.
Because everyone should have read this already by now and you'd be surprised by how few people actually know about it.
Breeding issues are pretty huge in cultures that took a big step back from infant mortality progress made in the last 100-200 years. Prior to the last few centuries, infant mortality was often around 50%-ish. Child mortality (prior to age 12) was about 60%. Those are pretty awful odds of reaching adulthood.
Remember that Caesar's Legion is basically a roving army that continually breaks down and absorbs tribes that it conquers. That can only go on for so long, and Legionaries who are indoctrinated from birth are even more loyal than adolescents who are integrated. Breeding new generations of Legionaries is vital for the Legion's continued existence. Even though breeding is incredibly important in the Legion, there isn't any concept of family outside of the Legion's structure. All of the places where the player encounters the Legion are forward camps where direct military service is given the most weight and is of the most immediate importance. Because only males are involved in that service, they look down upon females even though it's incredibly short-sighted.
The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.
While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people. The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).
In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway
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Post by CHRrOME on Aug 17, 2016 20:55:07 GMT
House is awesome, he's the only way to go in Vegas. I always betrayed him at the end. And the NCR too. The end game of NW is probably the thing I enjoyed the most, when you double cross the shit out of everyone it feels great
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Aug 17, 2016 22:27:02 GMT
Mr. House path is actually pretty fun. I didn't think I'd like it, but it was interesting and had a good ending -- or at least in my case it did. He's a massively condescending stick in the mud who can't appreciate a joke, but he likes snow globes at least.  I like how in the end he "approved" and appreciated my Courier and all their hard work. I do have to agree with CHRrOME though. Backhanding House and then helping NCR defeat the Legion at the dam only to go "Nope! You lose too!" is one of the best, if not the most satisfying, moments in the game for me.
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 18, 2016 21:06:56 GMT
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Post by Darth Dennis on Aug 20, 2016 19:49:09 GMT
^ I've always wondered why the fashion in Caesar's Legion was to stick three dinner plates onto their armour.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Aug 20, 2016 20:57:44 GMT
Yes Man mentions changing himself to be "more assertive" which I take it to mean he won't be so easily manipulated. The Courier is also never "in charge" because it's Independence. The people rule themselves, with securitrons as... guards. Also, you don't have to kill everyone to get that ending. I befriend NCR hardcore and fight the Legion while saving as many other factions as I can -- since with Independence, you have ultimate choice. Mr. House makes you kill the Brotherhood. NCR and Yes Man don't. Actually, J.E. Sawyer said on Formspring that Yes Man is changing his programming in order to make it so that only the Courier can give him orders, and the dialogue during the confrontation with the NCR indicates that the Courier will be in a position of leadership (which is also one of the points of choosing Yes Man since you are effectively replacing Mr. House). I choose the path of giving New Vegas independence myself. I did enjoy killing Caesar and Lanius (I took Boone with me when I entered the Fort - "thumbs down, you son of a bitch"). Taking down a repugnant group of slavers and rapists was quite satisfying, as was defying the NCR (and having Oliver thrown off the dam).
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 20, 2016 21:05:18 GMT
^ I've always wondered why the fashion in Caesar's Legion was to stick three dinner plates onto their armour. They aren't dinner plates for one thing.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Aug 20, 2016 21:12:33 GMT
Sure but you need to make a carnage from pretty much everyone to get that ending. Also considering Yes Man tendencies to say everything to anyone who ask imagine the consequencies when the Courier die or if someone else manages to find the robot (just like the Courier did)? I just wish we could play after the main quest... Yeah, Yes Man will mention that but can't you fix that and make him only listen to you or something? Josh Sawyer said that Yes Man alters his programming so that only the Courier can give him orders. In case you're curious, Sawyer's quote on the reprogramming is: "That he will not just roll over for the next person to walk up to him in the Courier's absence. i.e. he will become a somewhat independent steward instead of a powerful tool for any random person to use for nefarious purposes."
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 20, 2016 21:27:45 GMT
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Post by lobselvith8 on Aug 20, 2016 21:45:35 GMT
^ I've always wondered why the fashion in Caesar's Legion was to stick three dinner plates onto their armour. There are a lot of illogical things that the Legion adheres to, particularly when it comes to technology. Although a malevolent group of rapists and slavers clearly aren't the most intelligent group of people, so the buffoonish aspects of the group shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Aug 20, 2016 21:47:10 GMT
Yes Man mentions changing himself to be "more assertive" which I take it to mean he won't be so easily manipulated. The Courier is also never "in charge" because it's Independence. The people rule themselves, with securitrons as... guards. Also, you don't have to kill everyone to get that ending. I befriend NCR hardcore and fight the Legion while saving as many other factions as I can -- since with Independence, you have ultimate choice. Mr. House makes you kill the Brotherhood. NCR and Yes Man don't. Actually, J.E. Sawyer said on Formspring that Yes Man is changing his programming in order to make it so that only the Courier can give him orders, and the dialogue during the confrontation with the NCR indicates that the Courier will be in a position of leadership (which is also one of the points of choosing Yes Man since you are effectively replacing Mr. House). I choose the path of giving New Vegas independence myself. I did enjoy killing Caesar and Lanius (I took Boone with me when I entered the Fort - "thumbs down, you son of a bitch"). Taking down a repugnant group of slavers and rapists was quite satisfying, as was defying the NCR (and having Oliver thrown off the dam). It still holds, though, as the ending slides mention the Courier moves on from Vegas.
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 20, 2016 21:50:43 GMT
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 20, 2016 21:57:58 GMT
Actually, J.E. Sawyer said on Formspring that Yes Man is changing his programming in order to make it so that only the Courier can give him orders, and the dialogue during the confrontation with the NCR indicates that the Courier will be in a position of leadership (which is also one of the points of choosing Yes Man since you are effectively replacing Mr. House). I choose the path of giving New Vegas independence myself. I did enjoy killing Caesar and Lanius (I took Boone with me when I entered the Fort - "thumbs down, you son of a bitch"). Taking down a repugnant group of slavers and rapists was quite satisfying, as was defying the NCR (and having Oliver thrown off the dam). It still holds, though, as the ending slides mention the Courier moves on from Vegas. I honestly don't recall that bit truthfully. In the Independent Ending, it explains that things either settled down quickly or devolved into anarchy and then goes into the karma of the Courier to ascribe motivation. I mean I guess you could take the final slide image as case of the Courier moving onward, but that's a unsupported assertion at best.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Aug 20, 2016 21:59:38 GMT
Actually, J.E. Sawyer said on Formspring that Yes Man is changing his programming in order to make it so that only the Courier can give him orders, and the dialogue during the confrontation with the NCR indicates that the Courier will be in a position of leadership (which is also one of the points of choosing Yes Man since you are effectively replacing Mr. House). I choose the path of giving New Vegas independence myself. I did enjoy killing Caesar and Lanius (I took Boone with me when I entered the Fort - "thumbs down, you son of a bitch"). Taking down a repugnant group of slavers and rapists was quite satisfying, as was defying the NCR (and having Oliver thrown off the dam). That still holds, though, as the ending slides mention the Courier moves on from Vegas. The endings don't indicate that the Courier leaves New Vegas indefinitely, though. We do know that a good karma Courier watches over Big MT as a steward, and slowly reintroduces beneficial technology over time, so it's obvious the Courier isn't at the Mojave 24/7, but I'd compare that to Mayor Hancock governing Goodneighbor and still being in charge even when he takes sabbaticals out of the area. New Vegas recognizes the Courier as a hero (with good karma) so I can see the denizens of the area giving the Courier similar support that Hancock receives in Goodneighbor: "Supporting the ideals of independence, the Courier was recognized as the man responsible for a truly free New Vegas. He ensured Mr. House's tyranny was broken and neither Caesar's Legion nor NCR would ever gain control over New Vegas."
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Aug 20, 2016 22:07:17 GMT
That still holds, though, as the ending slides mention the Courier moves on from Vegas. The endings don't indicate that the Courier leaves New Vegas indefinitely, though. We do know that a good karma Courier watches over Big MT as a steward, and slowly reintroduces beneficial technology over time, so it's obvious the Courier isn't at the Mojave 24/7, but I'd compare that to Mayor Hancock governing Goodneighbor and still being in charge even when he takes sabbaticals out of the area. New Vegas recognizes the Courier as a hero (with good karma) so I can see the denizens of the area giving the Courier similar support that Hancock receives in Goodneighbor: "Supporting the ideals of independence, the Courier was recognized as the man responsible for a truly free New Vegas. He ensured Mr. House's tyranny was broken and neither Caesar's Legion nor NCR would ever gain control over New Vegas." I suppose so. It just feels some of these lines get a little crossed when Lonesome Road painted this picture of the Courier never being able to stay put. I figured that's the general nature of the Courier -- always wandering -- but I guess NV becomes the new hub. I'd rather my Courier not be a "replacement" for House. Let NV sort out their own messes.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Aug 20, 2016 22:11:18 GMT
The endings don't indicate that the Courier leaves New Vegas indefinitely, though. We do know that a good karma Courier watches over Big MT as a steward, and slowly reintroduces beneficial technology over time, so it's obvious the Courier isn't at the Mojave 24/7, but I'd compare that to Mayor Hancock governing Goodneighbor and still being in charge even when he takes sabbaticals out of the area. New Vegas recognizes the Courier as a hero (with good karma) so I can see the denizens of the area giving the Courier similar support that Hancock receives in Goodneighbor: "Supporting the ideals of independence, the Courier was recognized as the man responsible for a truly free New Vegas. He ensured Mr. House's tyranny was broken and neither Caesar's Legion nor NCR would ever gain control over New Vegas." I suppose so. It just feels some of these lines get a little crossed when Lonesome Road painted this picture of the Courier never being able to stay put. I figured that's the general nature of he Courier -- always wandering -- but I guess NV becomes to the new hub. Well, I can see why you feel that way. I think every Courier is up to player interpretation, since it's the one Fallout game where we really get the most control over the protagonist by virtue of having no real backstory, aside from having been a courier for a period of time. New Vegas is, admittedly, my favorite Fallout game. I do like Fallout 4, though. I feel like Bethesda was influenced by New Vegas in giving the companions more depth this time around, and giving us choices in choosing who to side with in regards to the main factions. I also like that things aren't black and white with them; the Brotherhood of Steel and the Railroad don't turn into one-dimensional villains or monsters if you oppose them, and you have companions who lament the loss of life if you side with one over the other. The Institute also isn't entirely villainous, as there are good people there who are trying to advance science in benevolent ways, and even Father believes that this is the best hope for humanity. Admittedly, I think the Commonwealth Minutemen could have been fleshed out more. I also think it's a mistake to have tied Preston to the settlement quests because it interferes with you learning more about his character, and his depression. It causes him to become a source of annoyance rather than a companion you can learn more about and travel with because of the nonstop settlement quests. Far Harbor was also good. The story manages to provide information that shows that the Brotherhood of Steel has valid reasons to be wary of the dangers of synths while also showing that synths are cognitive individuals. It's not black and white. I think this is something that Bethesda and Obsidian did well - they allow the player to come to their own conclusions about things. I do wish Bioware followed their lead in that regard. I'm also excited about the possibility of Fallout: New Orleans, since some are reporting that Obsidian is making this game (I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is true).
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 20, 2016 22:12:57 GMT
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 20, 2016 22:18:47 GMT
I've got a big folder of Fallout related images if you cannot tell 
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