kraidy
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kraidy on Aug 31, 2016 16:19:44 GMT
But you don't have to do the MQ, you can easily ignore Benny and the whole thing with House for the rest of the game. Unlike Bethesda nothing but mainquests are locked if you don't want to do the main story. So you can rp a Courier who decided to forgive Benny and do their own thing.
Also it's not farfetch unhooking House will kill him in the future, there where some forshadowing and even House confirms that by the point of NV, him and his computer can not be safely tampered with, while you don't have to like it. It's not ham handed because this was established before that mission even happens, it does not appear out of the blue and it makes sense in the confines of the lore science lore established in FO1/2.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Aug 31, 2016 20:51:07 GMT
I'd want something done about it so that he can't try it again, or do it to somebody else, but I wouldn't want "revenge" per se, or if I did, I'd try my best not to act on it. And in a situation as chaotic as the Mojave is, I could just as easily imagine a Courier who would just think, "Whew, that was a close one" and do their best to stay the hell away from both Benny and the Platinum Chip after that. I'm not generally in the "revenge" camp myself, but after what happen with Benny for me it was "WTF? This cocky bastard just nearly killed me." I wanted answers more than blood so I chased him down. And then took over his casino.  But you don't have to kill him when confronting him at the Tops. You can even let him go. You'll just be forced to deal with him later... |
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Aug 31, 2016 21:29:33 GMT
I know, and I ended up not killing him. I just thought that the MQ should have been designed to be workable with a more diverse range of reactions to Benny. My first playthrough was with a "small-picture altruist" character who was more interested in helping individual people than anything else. She didn't see Benny as particularly different from the raider gangs, Fiends, and Legion assassin squads that she had to deal with on a daily basis - she'd fight them if they came after her but she wasn't going to go looking for a confrontation. She did eventually decide to support NCR, but only because she saw them as the best alternative to being conquered by the Legion or to Mr. House's autocracy, and she wouldn't have been willing to kill House just to get him out of the way.
I take the point from the previous poster, that I could have just ignored the MQ altogether with that character and just kept playing until I'd finished all the sidequests or lost interest in the game.
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Post by Blast Processor on Aug 31, 2016 22:10:21 GMT
I'd like to know what alternatives you feel should have been included to avoid killing Mr. House? What's to stop him from hiring an assassin or two and having the Courier killed.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Sept 1, 2016 0:49:48 GMT
Just allow an option to remove his control over the robots without endangering him physically. He doesn't have much power without them, and the only reason that disconnecting him ends up killing him is that the game's technobabble says so. Sure, maybe he could try to hire an assassin later, but the Courier is already moving to consolidate power (whether for NCR or him/herself if doing the Yes Man path), so he would be unlikely to succeed and it would be a risky venture at best for the potential assassin. It's no more a risk than making alliances with the BoS or the Great Khans, both of whom have their own agendas and could still turn against the Courier later.
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Post by Blast Processor on Sept 1, 2016 1:40:59 GMT
Well there is also the matter of Mr. House's quality of life. Especially in the Yes Man path, since Mr. House needed to be gone for Yes Man to assimilate his programming. He'd be in vegetative state until his hibernation chamber finally gave out. It would be a much crueller fate to let him live, but I agree that there should've been that option. I mean they let you destroy the Securitron army if you choose on the Yes Man path.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 1, 2016 9:25:24 GMT
Ok so FO 4 spoilers just in case, but this is just me asking for help getting some of my companions back. I sent Paladin Danse and Piper to the Boston Airport. And they have more or less vanished. I can hear them. But I can't see them or interact with them. There is a door by where I can hear them and a terminal next to said door that says 'inaccessible' on it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 1, 2016 10:14:20 GMT
Ok so FO 4 spoilers just in case, but this is just me asking for help getting some of my companions back. I sent Paladin Danse and Piper to the Boston Airport. And they have more or less vanished. I can hear them. But I can't see them or interact with them. There is a door by where I can hear them and a terminal next to said door that says 'inaccessible' on it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Fast travel to Boston Airport (not ruins) then go west to this area, left of the bus:  Sounds like this is where they should be. |
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Post by colfoley on Sept 1, 2016 10:54:32 GMT
Mother fraker. That looks right but its not where they are.
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wsdswsaswwasdawwI can't move!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Sept 1, 2016 13:52:24 GMT
So Fo4 is trying to give me eye cancer with its lack of 21:9 support. First it refused to work in fullscreen and ran at 6 fps in window. Then it refused to let me select resolution in fullscreen and ran in lowest resolution available. Luckily, manually changing resolution and display mode in .ini worked, it ran smoothly, but various UI elements were offset. And because Gamebryo Creation Engine is really old, it's quite possible proper 21:9 support cannot be patched.
Good thing I don't have time to play it.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Sept 1, 2016 14:26:46 GMT
Well there is also the matter of Mr. House's quality of life. Especially in the Yes Man path, since Mr. House needed to be gone for Yes Man to assimilate his programming. He'd be in vegetative state until his hibernation chamber finally gave out. It would be a much crueller fate to let him live, but I agree that there should've been that option. I mean they let you destroy the Securitron army if you choose on the Yes Man path. Maybe a better "paragon" solution would be to just turn off the Securitrons' combat capabilities? Then you wouldn't have to worry about Yes Man assimilating his programming or anything. He could stay conscious and "active" with the working robots in his home but he wouldn't be able to wield political or military power. Or let the Courier try to cut a deal with him like you can do with the BoS, the Boomers, etc., but House seems like he might be a "my way or the highway" kind of guy. With the exception of that particular choice, I did generally like the faction alignment system in FONV and how it factored into the ending - it was a good example of how to give the player-character influence over major events without making the Courier into The Only One Who Can Save Us. |
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 1, 2016 18:53:15 GMT
The Courier is one man. Not a demigod.
It's all about the factions.
It's their vision of the Mojave.
It's their resources and personal.
It's their ambitions and greed that drive armies to clash not the actions of a single person.
It's how it should be.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 1, 2016 19:23:41 GMT
Mother fraker. That looks right but its not where they are. I looked it up and apparently it's a bug. Your companions appear to be in an inaccessible area only opening up at a certain point in BoS quest chain.  But it seems the call bell might help -- access the workshop, go to Resources > Miscellaneous > Bell. Build at opposite end of area from the door/wall, then ring. Then try sitting and waiting for an hour or so to see if they pop up. Here's where I found the workaround on Reddit. |
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N4
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 1, 2016 20:45:16 GMT
For me Bethesda games are good fillers when I'm waiting for the next BioWare game to come out. I liked Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim but I don't love them. IMHO they're not great games but good games, good enough for to buy them and the DLC and to enjoy them.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Sept 3, 2016 16:43:14 GMT
So, I pretty much gave up on FO4 right around the time I got access to The Institute. I was just really, really bored and couldn't handle the thought of moving one more piece of crap in a settlement or hearing Preston tell me to go to another damned settlement. It just never grabbed me in the first place with the "here's a child. You care about him now" trope, but something snapped in me after dealing with settlements for long enough.
So assuming I ever go back, is any of the DLC worth getting? I'm obviously not paying for stuff to put in settlements. I feel like I should really finish it at some point, considering I bought the expensive as hell pip-boy edition. Never actually used the pip-boy, but it makes a pretty sweet shelf ornament.
Oh, and since people are posting their ratings of the games: 2,1,3,NV...........4. Never played tactics, though I think I might actually own it on GOG.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on Sept 3, 2016 17:42:10 GMT
The thing that bothered me the most about Fallout 4 is the let down when you finally meet your son. There is very little interaction, personal or anything else with your son. What you get is someone who is all business, cold and distant. As far as I'm concerned, my son died when the war started. "Father" isn't my son.
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Post by KingTony on Sept 4, 2016 13:02:47 GMT
The thing that bothered me the most about Fallout 4 is the let down when you finally meet your son. There is very little interaction, personal or anything else with your son. What you get is someone who is all business, cold and distant. As far as I'm concerned, my son died when the war started. "Father" isn't my son. I think that's kind of the point. Your son died when the Intitute took him. |
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 4, 2016 20:15:33 GMT
I don't really see it that way, personally.
The lack of content with Shaun was disappointing and made me feel like I never got the chance to know him as a person. I still see Shaun as my son, but still a stranger at the same time. I wanted to bridge that gap and I was hoping progressing the story would enable more interaction, but sadly no. If you take the Institute path you get some warmer moments, particularly at the end.
Though I understand why he's more formal because of his position in the Institute, and he's always looking to the future more than at the present. He's pragmatic and doesn't allow himself to be wrapped up in sentiment, but says in his old age his has regrets. He became his own (instituted) person just as anyone living in the wasteland is a product of their environment. He was taken as an infant so I can hardly blame him for the he way turned out.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 5, 2016 22:46:33 GMT
So, I pretty much gave up on FO4 right around the time I got access to The Institute. I was just really, really bored and couldn't handle the thought of moving one more piece of crap in a settlement or hearing Preston tell me to go to another damned settlement. It just never grabbed me in the first place with the "here's a child. You care about him now" trope, but something snapped in me after dealing with settlements for long enough. So assuming I ever go back, is any of the DLC worth getting? I'm obviously not paying for stuff to put in settlements. I feel like I should really finish it at some point, considering I bought the expensive as hell pip-boy edition. Never actually used the pip-boy, but it makes a pretty sweet shelf ornament. Oh, and since people are posting their ratings of the games: 2,1,3,NV...........4. Never played tactics, though I think I might actually own it on GOG. I actually grew to love Fallout 4, and have been sinking a few too many hours into it these past couple of weeks. Of course, getting through the main quest line is a seriously slow process for me because of the game's sandbox, so I haven't even come close to completing it yet. I'm just finishing up Far Harbor, and I enjoyed the main quest of that DLC much more than I expected to. Nick Valentine is pretty much a must for this DLC. It's almost baffling that it can be done without him, because you lose so much content if you do. I actually could not finish Fallout 3 and I've had it for a few years now. Try as I might, I just couldn't stick with it. |
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Sept 6, 2016 15:05:01 GMT
I think basing the main quest around a missing family member probably wasn't the best way to go, especially one that you think is still just a child and could be in considerable danger despite the game's slow place. A better intro might have been for the Sole Survivor to have been some sort of local community leader in Boston, i.e. someone with established leadership skills and a sense of civic responsibility, and then when you wake up you encounter a few old friends who survived as ghouls and fill you in on all the conflict and chaos that has enveloped Boston while you were asleep.
FO3 was also based on a missing family member, but it worked better because you learn pretty early on that the story of your birth was a lie and that your father has survived in the Wasteland on his own before, plus you're a fugitive from Vault 101. So you don't have to assume that your father is necessarily in great danger, wherever he is, and you need to find a place for yourself in the Wasteland since you have nowhere else to go. (I think it helps to play with a mod that requires you to eat, drink, and sleep regularly.) Plus, regardless of what your relationship with your father was like, I think most people would be motivated to find out the truth about their own origin.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 6, 2016 20:14:43 GMT
I never got invested in Fallout 3's main narrative.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 6, 2016 22:30:59 GMT
I think the family angle could've worked better for 4 if they invested more time for the player in the prologue, in a similar fashion to 3, instead of: bathroom then BOMBS then MURDER and then KIDNAP. I mean, I did still feel bad for the spouse getting shot even if I barely knew them. I feel it was a good scene that lacked a proper buildup. Even so, I'm curious enough that it still drew me in -- but I wasn't expecting that Shaun was actually still an infant when I had been frozen a second time after he was taken. I thought it was very likely he could be an adult, so I didn't like how the game railed that.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Sept 6, 2016 22:54:14 GMT
Maybe. The thing is, the intro to 3 was still taking place in a strange, "alien" setting, i.e. Vault 101, so it was probably easier to keep players' interest because they were still discovering something new as they were playing. Drawing out the introduction to 4 might not have worked as well since everybody would know what's coming. It could reach a point of, "OK, how long am I going to be pretending to be part of a normal family as if I don't know there's about to be a nuclear war?"
Introducing a story is never an easy task, and introducing a game story is probably even harder, because either you have to give the player something to do while unloading a bunch of exposition, or you have to let the player get used to the gameplay mechanics in a fairly linear, low-stakes context. I just started Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, and towards the end of the intro mission I was thinking, "This mission will go haywire and kickstart the game's actual plot in 3...2...1..." (which is exactly what happened).
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kraidy
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kraidy on Sept 7, 2016 3:39:30 GMT
I liked the idea of the pre war angle, but the forced familly bs(that was done terrible) and the fact we are quickly put into the vault (exploring a pre war place for awhile would have been very fresh instead of being rushed into a vault and shooting roaches) ruined it, along with Bethesda's typical main quest writing.
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Post by crusty on Sept 7, 2016 14:25:54 GMT
The Courier is one man. Not a demigod. It's all about the factions. It's their vision of the Mojave. It's their resources and personal. It's their ambitions and greed that drive armies to clash not the actions of a single person. It's how it should be. The Courier is basically designed as the pebble that starts the avalanche. Now, how big of a pebble you are is up to you and your decisions. But the story is very deliberately setup to have the player as the agent of change. Now, Bethesda's Fallout games are done similarly but the setup is very different. The player in Bethesda games is designed as this sort of messianic figure. On one hand, this seems like a good thing because the player character is always at the centre of what's going on. The problem is that the protagonist is not given a genuine stake in the events of the story. You have a family, but you're not given the time to get to know them. Or interact with them in a meaningful way. They're plot points for YOUR GRAND EPIC STORY. You find it hard to care about the events in Boston because the player character feels detatched from it. This is somewhat true for New Vegas, in that the Courier as that pebble might lack narrative grounding in the story (Why me? Why should my character care?). But your range of actions and ways to interact and solve quests are much more varied, involving and have much more consequences. So by taking a more active role in how you accomplish your goals, the emotional connection is made too. A side effect of this, is (temporarily) making skill selection important, giving the player a real sense of roleplay and character building. You know, RPG stuff. Making a game an RPG goes beyond just "rising numbers". What's important is how they're used in a game. Bethesda hasn't really understood those ideas since Morrowind, if they ever did. They can create a technically more proficient, nicer looking game with better shooting mechanics and all. But it lacks a lot of what the clunky and outdated New Vegas has in spades. |
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Its never too late. LOL. 
