Leliana's "lyrium ghost" handwave was really pretty lame and I hope they don't repeat it.
If Lyrium Ghost Leliana had been actually different from real Leliana, or if Leliana being a Lyrium Ghost had mattered somewhat, then it might have been OK. But Biff the Lyrium Understudy just shows up, fills in Leliana's part of the play and exits stage left when its no longer necessary.
They should have just retconned.
If it was "handwave" they wouldn't have introduced the concept of lyrium!ghost at all. Obviously it's a clue to something that will likely matter later. Her story's not yet over.
The whole "lyrium ghost" thing shows up first as an ability in Fenris' skill tree, though. I wonder if there's something bigger behind it. Like maybe even if you didn't kill Leli, she was already a lyrium ghost, for whatever reason. Probably not, but there are all sorts of fun little hints dropped along with certain Origins worldstates.
^ Regarding Leliana, if you import that play, you learn that the Leliana you've been interacting with is basically just a spirit that has taken her form and personality.
The whole "lyrium ghost" thing shows up first as an ability in Fenris' skill tree, though. I wonder if there's something bigger behind it. Like maybe even if you didn't kill Leli, she was already a lyrium ghost, for whatever reason.
I don't think it's that simple. I think lyrium!ghost Leliana WAS actually resurrected Leliana, hence absolutely nobody could tell a difference, including herself (till after Trespasser). Lyrium/Titan obviously was involved and may throw some light on how the world was a long time ago, or that there's a mystery lying ahead.
Heck, there's no way of telling if the same thing didn't actually happen to Inquisitor. After all, both Leliana's death and Inquisitor disrupting the ritual happened in the exact same place. Clues, folks! Clues!
Last Edit: Sept 13, 2016 15:07:52 GMT by midnight tea
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Judging from Biofan's interview with Patrick Weekes, where the lead writer told us how they've struggled and tried to get around killing Iron Bull for a while, precisely because it may be difficult to bring a character we can kill back, I'd say that it is a distinct possibility.
They love to bring back characters when ever logically and budgetarily possible. I don't doubt he'll somehow turn up (if alive) for a role in the Qunari vs Tevinter plot. Might be small since he can be dead, but we'll see.
As BioFan points out, since he can die in DAI (and doesn't have the "out" that say, Calpernia has), there's no guarantee he would make an appearance, even if alive. And if he did, his role would have to be relatively small, but still could be an important one (eg. Loghain in DAI).
The whole choice with Iron Bull was a GREAT example of choice/consequence within a game. It was made more impactful because of that scope. If they bring him back regardless of player decision that will wipe out any of that impact.
He doesn't even die in my game and I would still be pissed.
I can't really hold onto the fact that it may be a small role and such, depending on player choice, because we have the ultimate example of Leliana's appearance to fall back on.
[edit] I suppose I wouldn't be surprised, though. PW likes the character, and all the devs really seem to like FPJ and having worked with him.
Honestly, I say don't beat around the bush anymore and just have FPJ voice the male protag in DA4. He could totally handle it. Though not sure if Bioware could afford it. But I think something could be worked out.
(And by "male protag in DA4", I mean if the Inquisitor doesn't return as the protag, or a new protag is part of a dual protag scenario. )
The whole choice with Iron Bull was a GREAT example of choice/consequence within a game. It was made more impactful because of that scope. If they bring him back regardless of player decision that will wipe out any of that impact.
He doesn't even die in my game and I would still be pissed.
I can't really hold onto the fact that it may be a small role and such, depending on player choice, because we have the ultimate example of Leliana's appearance to fall back on.
[edit] I suppose I wouldn't be surprised, though. PW likes the character, and all the devs really seem to like FPJ and having worked with him.
*peeks in again* Is the monkey paw gone????
Regarding the possibility of Iron Bull's return, I'd have to say not likely. Not only does Calpernia have a possible out, but so does Leliana. (Unless, of course, you kill her in the camp.) I'm of the opinion that Leliana survives because she "dies" at the Temple of Sacred Ashes. *shrugs*
You know, if IB is dead Bioware could create a different Qunari to fill IB's role. This way if IB is alive and Tal Vashoth we get the IB appearance, but if he is a dead Qunari we get a Quanari appearance. Perhaps this could be an old "friend" from Seheron or something similar. Maybe the friend could be a female Benhasrath. Ooo, that sounds fun. More Qunari please.
Catching up on some of the discussion here. The only thing that makes sense about Bull returning in a future DA is if he's free from the Qun and the Chargers are alive. To bring the Qun loyal version of him back is a waste, because it ruins the consequences made from the main game and Trespasser.
Hrungr any thoughts on the "troll" tweet made by Mark Darrah? I think the top secret book has something to do with Lavellan, Cassandra and Varric.
Catching up on some of the discussion here. The only thing that makes sense about Bull returning in a future DA is if he's free from the Qun and the Chargers are alive. To bring the Qun loyal version of him back is a waste, because it ruins the consequences made from the main game and Trespasser.
Hrungr any thoughts on the "troll" tweet made by Mark Darrah? I think the top secret book has something to do with Lavellan, Cassandra and Varric.
I think they're mostly using images from DAI, simply because there aren't many things from DA4 yet, apart from some concept art and some basic stuff maybe. A good thing about it is that it suggests that DA4 may indeed a close continuation of DAI.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Hi, everyone. Can somebody answer me this simple question.
If I import states from previous games, will this also import custom names of my heroes from DA:o/DA2? -I'm asking since I have used same name for my hero in first 2 games and it would be weird to see both are named the same in Inquisition (in codex, or elsewhere). Can I re-use same name in Inquisition?
I think they're mostly using images from DAI, simply because there aren't many things from DA4 yet, apart from some concept art and some basic stuff maybe. A good thing about it is that it suggests that DA4 may indeed a close continuation of DAI.
Yeah, I'm not going to play the speculation game. I have to draw the line at intentional trolling.
Just keep in mind he said 66% trolling and then said "SOME useful." Even though "66%" can't be taken at face value anyway, the point is, there are real clues hidden in those pictures. Probably none that will make sense until after we've played DA4 a time or two, and then looking back this will all be /facepalm aha funny, but for now it's more torment than fun.
Intermittent reinforcement is one of the primary tools of psychological manipulation. Not to mention abuse.
Last Edit: Sept 14, 2016 2:07:23 GMT by PapaCharlie9
Inquisitor: Is that innuendo? Sera: No, it's at the front!
Hi, everyone. Can somebody answer me this simple question.
If I import states from previous games, will this also import custom names of my heroes from DA:o/DA2? -I'm asking since I have used same name for my hero in first 2 games and it would be weird to see both are named the same in Inquisition (in codex, or elsewhere). Can I re-use same name in Inquisition?
I think they're mostly using images from DAI, simply because there aren't many things from DA4 yet, apart from some concept art and some basic stuff maybe. A good thing about it is that it suggests that DA4 may indeed a close continuation of DAI.
Yeah, it's hard to know whether they are making specific call-outs here, or something more general. A recap of sorts maybe?
Elves being a prominent part of the next game is a given. Though tbh, it kinda fills me with dread that we might have to go war with an army of elves under Solas. I hope we can find some peaceful resolution to this (or as peaceful as possible). I'd be tempted to let Solas win before being put in a position to slay hundreds/thousands of elves, which is probably exactly what we're going to have to do.
Varric becoming Viscount does sound like they're "retiring" him. That's not to say he couldn't show up in the next game, but it seems... less likely now. Cass could show up too, but she since could be Divine, it seems unlikely she'd be running around in Tevinter. Both of the them could be important support figures though.
But it's interesting hearing Shinobi toss out the Javelin comment. There was speculation early on that it might be the name of one of the New IPs, but now I have to wonder if it's associated with DA. Name of the spin-off game? DA4 (though that doesn't feel likely)? Hmm...
Yeah, I'm not going to play. I have to draw the line at intentional trolling.
Just keep in mind he said 66% trolling and then said "SOME useful." Even though "66%" can't be taken at face value anyway, the point is, there are real clues hidden in those pictures. Probably none that will make sense until after we've played DA4 a time or two, and then looking back this will all be /facepalm aha funny, but for now it's more torment than fun.
Intermittent reinforcement is one of the primary tools of psychological manipulation. Not to mention abuse.
I like 'em myself. I find the speculation fun, and it helps to know things are still moving forward on the next project. Sometimes you can even glean a little bit about where they might be in development.
It's gonna be a long, looooong wait yet, so I like the fact they're chiming in every now and again, even if it involves a little trolling....
I think they're mostly using images from DAI, simply because there aren't many things from DA4 yet, apart from some concept art and some basic stuff maybe. A good thing about it is that it suggests that DA4 may indeed a close continuation of DAI.
Yeah, it's hard to know whether they are making specific call-outs here, or something more general. A recap of sorts maybe?
Elves being a prominent part of the next game is a given. Though tbh, it kinda fills me with dread that we might have to go war with an army of elves under Solas. I hope we can find some peaceful resolution to this (or as peaceful as possible). I'd be tempted to let Solas win before being put in a position to slay hundreds/thousands of elves, which is probably exactly what we're going to have to do.
Varric becoming Viscount does sound like they're "retiring" him. That's not to say he couldn't show up in the next game, but it seems... less likely now. Cass could show up too, but she since could be Divine, it seems unlikely she'd be running around in Tevinter. Both of the them could be important support figures though.
But it's interesting hearing Shinobi toss out the Javelin comment. There was speculation early on that it might be the name of one of the New IPs, but now I have to wonder if it's associated with DA. Name of the spin-off game? DA4 (though that doesn't feel likely)? Hmm...
Ah gotcha. I felt the same about Varric and Cassandra. Cass is Divine in most of my PTs, including my canon. So, it's unlikely she'll show up in Tevinter. Unless its undercover like what we saw in the underground meeting scene from Trespasser.
Not too thrilled about having to fight an Elven army under Solas either. Especially in Lavellan's case. If we don't have the option to resolve without bloodshed, then so be it. It's a fight to save the world at all costs.
Who's this Shinobi person? I heard a bit about him in the ME:A section, but I've been taking the info with a grain of salt. Mind you, I prefer hearing official word on stuff from BioWare.
Yeah, I'm not going to play. I have to draw the line at intentional trolling.
Just keep in mind he said 66% trolling and then said "SOME useful." Even though "66%" can't be taken at face value anyway, the point is, there are real clues hidden in those pictures. Probably none that will make sense until after we've played DA4 a time or two, and then looking back this will all be /facepalm aha funny, but for now it's more torment than fun.
Intermittent reinforcement is one of the primary tools of psychological manipulation. Not to mention abuse.
I like 'em myself. I find the speculation fun, and it helps to know things are still moving forward on the next project. Sometimes you can even glean a little bit about where they might be in development.
It's gonna be a long, looooong wait yet, so I like the fact they're chiming in every now and again, even if it involves a little trolling....
You convinced me before that the unintentional trolling, them just talking about stuff they are doing with other team members, isn't bad. You were right and I'm okay with that now.
But intentional trolling? That crosses a line for me. It's disrespectful to fans if it sets expectations that don't get met. Like, if the Cass and Varric picture is part of the 66% that is trolling and they end up not appearing at all in DA4 after some fans got their hopes up, that's just cruel. Crazy speculation on no basis is one thing, but crazy speculation spurred by intentional trolling? Too much for me.
Inquisitor: Is that innuendo? Sera: No, it's at the front!
I think they're mostly using images from DAI, simply because there aren't many things from DA4 yet, apart from some concept art and some basic stuff maybe. A good thing about it is that it suggests that DA4 may indeed a close continuation of DAI.
Yeah, it's hard to know whether they are making specific call-outs here, or something more general. A recap of sorts maybe?
Elves being a prominent part of the next game is a given. Though tbh, it kinda fills me with dread that we might have to go war with an army of elves under Solas. I hope we can find some peaceful resolution to this (or as peaceful as possible). I'd be tempted to let Solas win before being put in a position to slay hundreds/thousands of elves, which is probably exactly what we're going to have to do.
Varric becoming Viscount does sound like they're "retiring" him. That's not to say he couldn't show up in the next game, but it seems... less likely now. Cass could show up too, but she since could be Divine, it seems unlikely she'd be running around in Tevinter. Both of the them could be important support figures though.
But it's interesting hearing Shinobi toss out the Javelin comment. There was speculation early on that it might be the name of one of the New IPs, but now I have to wonder if it's associated with DA. Name of the spin-off game? DA4 (though that doesn't feel likely)? Hmm...
TBH I'm not sure about the army of elves - orrrrr... I'm not sure about the army of elves led by Fen'Harel, as weird as it may sound? Prior to Solas stealing the power from Flemythal we do hear in Val Royeax how an elven servant is talking about a woman in his vision calling herself Mythal. And then there are mysterious elves from Tirashan, featured in Last Court AND mentioned by Leliana in Trespasser.
As for Varic being "retired"... I think he may be retired from active companionship, but not necessarily from the story. He may be a bit like Leliana or Cullen in DAI? With him as a Viscount the Inquisition would have a good base of operation in Free Marches - if not that, Varric as Viscount would mean relatively significant "political muscle" there, as well as good supplier. And while I'm not sure how much "underground" the Inquisition would go, I think his connections with Carta could be relevant. With the adversary being a powerful Dreamer I think having connections with sneaky people who can't be spied through dreams and who know many secret passages through Deep Roads could be a pretty big advantage.
Also - whether Cass or Leli are Divine, I think their presence in the DA4 story is pretty much guaranteed, likely in no small role. That post-epilogue scene in Trespasser showing them both (and Harding) as part of new 'Inquisition core' (they're there regardless of world state) is as significant as Inquisitor sinking a dagger into Tevinter.
As for Javelin... the only thing that comes to my mind at this very moment that could refer to 'javelin' of some sorts in DA verse is a small codex from Temple of Mythal:
There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.
"She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold. Andruil, blood and force, save us from the time this weapon is thrown. Your people pray to You. Spare us the moment we become Your sacrifice."
There is a brief image of an elaborate golden spear, glowing with unbearable heat. Then it fades.
Last Edit: Sept 14, 2016 2:44:23 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Dragon Age The Veilguard Posts: 1,705 Likes: 4,753
Andruil's spear was the first thing that came to my mind as well. Seems like a stretch, but then you can never really tell with these devs. They like to be sneaky with their foreshadowing.
One day, the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see. -Sandal Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a world to save. Again. -Inquisitor
Yeah, it's hard to know whether they are making specific call-outs here, or something more general. A recap of sorts maybe?
Elves being a prominent part of the next game is a given. Though tbh, it kinda fills me with dread that we might have to go war with an army of elves under Solas. I hope we can find some peaceful resolution to this (or as peaceful as possible). I'd be tempted to let Solas win before being put in a position to slay hundreds/thousands of elves, which is probably exactly what we're going to have to do.
Varric becoming Viscount does sound like they're "retiring" him. That's not to say he couldn't show up in the next game, but it seems... less likely now. Cass could show up too, but she since could be Divine, it seems unlikely she'd be running around in Tevinter. Both of the them could be important support figures though.
But it's interesting hearing Shinobi toss out the Javelin comment. There was speculation early on that it might be the name of one of the New IPs, but now I have to wonder if it's associated with DA. Name of the spin-off game? DA4 (though that doesn't feel likely)? Hmm...
Ah gotcha. I felt the same about Varric and Cassandra. Cass is Divine in most of my PTs, including my canon. So, it's unlikely she'll show up in Tevinter. Unless its undercover like what we saw in the underground meeting scene from Trespasser.
Not too thrilled about having to fight an Elven army under Solas either. Especially in Lavellan's case. If we don't have the option to resolve without bloodshed, then so be it. It's a fight to save the world at all costs.
Who's this Shinobi person? I heard a bit about him in the ME:A section, but I've been taking the info with a grain of salt. Mind you, I prefer hearing official word on stuff from BioWare.
Yeah, it's tough to see a good outcome for the elves coming out of this... but I'm hopeful we'll find a way!
Shinobi is a fan who seems to have "backstage pass" access with a number of gaming studios, especially BioWare. He seems to be friends with a number of Devs and knows a lot about what they're working on.
I like 'em myself. I find the speculation fun, and it helps to know things are still moving forward on the next project. Sometimes you can even glean a little bit about where they might be in development.
It's gonna be a long, looooong wait yet, so I like the fact they're chiming in every now and again, even if it involves a little trolling....
You convinced me before that the unintentional trolling, them just talking about stuff they are doing with other team members, isn't bad. You were right and I'm okay with that now.
But intentional trolling? That crosses a line for me. It's disrespectful to fans if it sets expectations that don't get met. Like, if the Cass and Varric picture is part of the 66% that is trolling and they end up not appearing at all in DA4 after some fans got their hopes up, that's just cruel. Crazy speculation on no basis is one thing, but crazy speculation spurred by intentional trolling? Too much for me.
And that's fair. I can understand anyone getting annoyed with, "I'm going to tell you 1 truth and 2 lies, guess which is which."
I try not to cling too closely to what they tease here (especially this early) as even if they intended to put X, Y & Z in a game, they might get cut over the normal course of development. So even the stuff they weren't trolling about might not make it in the end... It's just a fun little diversion as we wait. (And wait... and waaaaaaiiiiiiit).
TBH I'm not sure about the army of elves - orrrrr... I'm not sure about the army of elves led by Fen'Harel, as weird as it may sound? Prior to Solas stealing the power from Flemythal we do hear in Val Royeax how an elven servant is talking about a woman in his vision calling herself Mythal. And then there are mysterious elves from Tirashan, featured in Last Court AND mentioned by Leliana in Trespasser.
As for Varic being "retired"... I think he may be retired from active companionship, but not necessarily from the story. He may be a bit like Leliana or Cullen in DAI? With him as a Viscount the Inquisition would have a good base of operation in Free Marches - if not that, Varric as Viscount would mean relatively significant "political muscle" there, as well as good supplier. And while I'm not sure how much "underground" the Inquisition would go, I think his connections with Carta could be relevant. With the adversary being a powerful Dreamer I think having connections with sneaky people who can't be spied through dreams and who know many secret passages through Deep Roads could be a pretty big advantage.
Also - whether Cass or Leli are Divine, I think their presence in the DA4 story is pretty much guaranteed, likely in no small role. That post-epilogue scene in Trespasser showing them both (and Harding) as part of new 'Inquisition core' (they're there regardless of world state) is as significant as Inquisitor sinking a dagger into Tevinter.
As for Javelin... the only thing that comes to my mind at this very moment that could refer to 'javelin' of some sorts in DA verse is a small codex from Temple of Mythal:
There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.
"She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold. Andruil, blood and force, save us from the time this weapon is thrown. Your people pray to You. Spare us the moment we become Your sacrifice."
There is a brief image of an elaborate golden spear, glowing with unbearable heat. Then it fades.
Off the top of my head, I don't recall the elf who spoke to Mythal, but the Tirashan Elves are definitely interesting and I hope they do something with them.
As for Cass and Varric, some kind of support role seems most likely. It'll be interesting to see how closely associated the new Protag will be to the Inquisition (or remnant thereof). I suspect it will be downplayed or curtailed at some story point in order to focus on the Tevinter power groups (and possibly other nations).
As for Javelin, I'm not sure what to think the reference might mean. Sounds like a code name for a Black Op tbh...
- Interesting that we get a tweet with Kenneth Branagh with a number of BioWare staff in Edmonton on the same day Mark tweets those pages from the mystery DA book. A book most of us just assumed was for DA4.
- Interesting tweet Patrick made many a moon ago too...
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes I had the Kenneth Branagh guy from Chamber of Secrets erase my memory. Can't reveal what I don't know, right?
Yeah, okay, it's thin as hell , but... maybe, just maybe... a Dragon Age movie is in the works (or possibly ME)?
I don't get too worked up about these types of hints/teases. If it's about the game at all (and not something just related to the game (book, etc.) it's pretty thin goings. I can get aboard the hype train as early as anyone, but the difference is that you can't really get too worried about these remarks setting up disappointment when something isn't put into the game or whatever.
Take it with a grain of salt, you know? People have origins stuck up their ass too far and are always too ready to complain about something in every new game.
I like the speculation even if what they hint turns out to be Bullshit.
)
