Fen'Harel Faceman
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jan 12, 2018 23:12:20 GMT
Mike's opinion is kinda blatantly that the current game prices vs. development costs for AAA aren't working out and companies are looking for ways to fix that. Other than this, is there anything else that leads you to believe that? I really don't have the patience to sit and listen to interviews like this when I can't skim to parts that will be relevant to me. Well he starts off the interview with refuting the notion that linear games are dead... then he goes on to say that it's getting harder and harder to make them in AAA quality. So... he believes there's still a place for them but with the way things currently are, they'll probably be of lesser quality. Like Telltale games? Also, like I was saying earlier in this thread, he thinks the building of games needs a less labor and time intensive process. I'm not sure that 6 years for a single player AAA game is paying off for publishers/devs according to his statements.
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 12, 2018 23:37:03 GMT
Mike's opinion is kinda blatantly that the current game prices vs. development costs for AAA aren't working out and companies are looking for ways to fix that. Other than this, is there anything else that leads you to believe that? I really don't have the patience to sit and listen to interviews like this when I can't skim to parts that will be relevant to me. [edit] I'm not usually one for excessive EA hate, but if they do go down this route for DA4, we'll know exactly who to blame for it. Not exactly pleased. It's not EA's fault about the $60 price not covering the game costs for AAA now with the standards that have become expected - it's important to keep in mind they get less than half the sale price after retail and platform holder take their cut, and when you include the sale culture that has arisen alot of the units that are sold aren't even at the $60 base price. In all honesty somethings got to give at some point, and personally I think the platform holders should massively reduce the cut they get - I see no reason they should get 30% of the price sold when they've had nothing to do with the development of the product and have already got paid for the certification process (which can run into the hundreds of thousands) just to run on the platform in the first place.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 12, 2018 23:44:41 GMT
It's not EA's fault about the $60 price not covering the game costs for AAA now with the standards that have become expected I only purchase games I'm super interested in and am not the sort to buy numerous games in a year. At this point in my life, Dragon Age is the only franchise I look forward to, so I'd happily pay more if I knew with certainty that I wouldn't have to deal with any of that shit.
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 13, 2018 0:00:12 GMT
It's not EA's fault about the $60 price not covering the game costs for AAA now with the standards that have become expected I only purchase games I'm super interested in and am not the sort to buy numerous games in a year. At this point in my life, Dragon Age is the only franchise I look forward to, so I'd happily pay more if I knew with certainty that I wouldn't have to deal with any of that shit. The problem is we need the rest of the gaming public to be willing to pay more (and even if you raised the price $10, a third party publisher would only get an extra $4 which likely wouldn't make up for the lost sales from raising the price). The problem is the whole gaming market seems to be based on one product subsidising everything else - microtransanctions and DLC subsidise the low base price, the sale of third party games and third party microtransactions subsidises the development of first part games (which are used to make people buy consoles to have a larger market) and to subsidise the consoles themselves which either have low margins or are sold at a loss. Having low price games and low price consoles benefits consumers so why would they be willing to pay more, specially when a lot don't buy microtransactions but benefit when others do (there's only really an uproar when gameplay microtransactions come in when it could be seen as affecting them)? It doesn't help that a narrative keeps going round that developers are "lazy" and "greedy". I don't really know what the solution is but I find it hard having a go at publishers and developers for putting in monetisation that actually makes their products solvent. Something will have to give - but hey, maybe we'll be lucky and they'll find a way to continue to monetise RPGs that benefits both consumer and the publisher - I've enjoyed the Sims franchise since the first one and it's practically perfected that and I still feel I get a lot of content for decent price. If they can find something like that for RPGs it would be great! It sounds like a harder task though
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 13, 2018 0:08:23 GMT
I only purchase games I'm super interested in and am not the sort to buy numerous games in a year. At this point in my life, Dragon Age is the only franchise I look forward to, so I'd happily pay more if I knew with certainty that I wouldn't have to deal with any of that shit. The problem is we need the rest of the gaming public to be willing to pay more (and even if you raised the price $10, a third party publisher would only get an extra $4 which likely wouldn't make up for the lost sales from raising the price). The problem is the whole gaming market seems to be based on one product subsidising everything else - microtransanctions and DLC subsidise the low base price, the sale of third party games and third party microtransactions subsidises the development of first part games (which are used to make people buy consoles to have a larger market) and to subsidise the consoles themselves which either have low margins or are sold at a loss. Having low price games and low price consoles benefits consumers so why would they be willing to pay more, specially when a lot don't buy microtransactions but benefit when others do (there's only really an uproar when gameplay microtransactions come in when it could be seen as affecting them)? It doesn't help that a narrative keeps going round that developers are "lazy" and "greedy". I don't really know what the solution is but I find it hard having a go at publishers and developers for putting in monetisation that actually makes their products solvent. Something will have to give - but hey, maybe we'll be lucky and they'll find a way to continue to monetise RPGs that benefits both consumer and the publisher - I've enjoyed the Sims franchise since the first one and it's practically perfected that and I still feel I get a lot of content for decent price. If they can find something like that for RPGs it would be great! It sounds like a harder task though Wellll... this may be only one of few steps to finding a solution, but Mike pretty unequivocally stated that the whole Frostbite transition of EA and building a massive library of assets and modules that can be re-used across multiple studios is EA's way to lower production costs. Though... it's not like it's a big secret. Not that hard to figure that one out.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 13, 2018 0:13:57 GMT
Dan Perry @danim8tionLet’s relieve some pressure for newer game devs and inspiring game devs. Post about some mistake or otherwise you game devs have made in the industry. Here’s my big ones: [continued...] blair k brown @blairbroonI locked 370 devs out of the build and tried to delete the entire game 3 months from Cert. I believe this was the catalyst that turned Inquisition into GOTY. Mandy Jacek @mandyjacekAlso, when you typo’d the heck out of our DAI team shirts! “StoLckholm”. blair k brown @blairbroonthat was @tylerd_lee i just approved it. Tyler Lee @tylerd_leeits hard to spellcheck vertical text when its grey on black. unless you know, you read stuff. Jeff🥓 fieldfluxreading is overrated anyway Tyler Lee @tylerd_lee'hey ty, you know why we're gonna make a rad tshirt? because we aren't going to go through anyone else for approval. Just you and me. Thats all we need.' What could go wrong? [hash]DAT
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Post by samhain444 on Jan 13, 2018 0:16:14 GMT
I only purchase games I'm super interested in and am not the sort to buy numerous games in a year. At this point in my life, Dragon Age is the only franchise I look forward to, so I'd happily pay more if I knew with certainty that I wouldn't have to deal with any of that shit. The problem is we need the rest of the gaming public to be willing to pay more (and even if you raised the price $10, a third party publisher would only get an extra $4 which likely wouldn't make up for the lost sales from raising the price). The problem is the whole gaming market seems to be based on one product subsidising everything else - microtransanctions and DLC subsidise the low base price, the sale of third party games and third party microtransactions subsidises the development of first part games (which are used to make people buy consoles to have a larger market) and to subsidise the consoles themselves which either have low margins or are sold at a loss. Having low price games and low price consoles benefits consumers so why would they be willing to pay more, specially when a lot don't buy microtransactions but benefit when others do (there's only really an uproar when gameplay microtransactions come in when it could be seen as affecting them)? It doesn't help that a narrative keeps going round that developers are "lazy" and "greedy". I don't really know what the solution is but I find it hard having a go at publishers and developers for putting in monetisation that actually makes their products solvent. Something will have to give - but hey, maybe we'll be lucky and they'll find a way to continue to monetise RPGs that benefits both consumer and the publisher - I've enjoyed the Sims franchise since the first one and it's practically perfected that and I still feel I get a lot of content for decent price. If they can find something like that for RPGs it would be great! It sounds like a harder task though I think they either have to take the randomness out of the lootboxes, meaning you get a list of specific items you'll receive for the purchase , or make the lootboxes more rewarding for the purchase in that you'll get little to no duplicates but you don't know exactly what you'll get. I'm guessing, given the current state of affairs, these would be cosmetic items as paying for advantages would be heavily criticized and would most likely kill any momentum for the game.
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 13, 2018 0:17:12 GMT
The problem is we need the rest of the gaming public to be willing to pay more (and even if you raised the price $10, a third party publisher would only get an extra $4 which likely wouldn't make up for the lost sales from raising the price). The problem is the whole gaming market seems to be based on one product subsidising everything else - microtransanctions and DLC subsidise the low base price, the sale of third party games and third party microtransactions subsidises the development of first part games (which are used to make people buy consoles to have a larger market) and to subsidise the consoles themselves which either have low margins or are sold at a loss. Having low price games and low price consoles benefits consumers so why would they be willing to pay more, specially when a lot don't buy microtransactions but benefit when others do (there's only really an uproar when gameplay microtransactions come in when it could be seen as affecting them)? It doesn't help that a narrative keeps going round that developers are "lazy" and "greedy". I don't really know what the solution is but I find it hard having a go at publishers and developers for putting in monetisation that actually makes their products solvent. Something will have to give - but hey, maybe we'll be lucky and they'll find a way to continue to monetise RPGs that benefits both consumer and the publisher - I've enjoyed the Sims franchise since the first one and it's practically perfected that and I still feel I get a lot of content for decent price. If they can find something like that for RPGs it would be great! It sounds like a harder task though Wellll... this may be only one of few steps to finding a solution, but Mike pretty unequivocally stated that the whole Frostbite transition of EA and building a massive library of assets and modules that can be re-used across multiple studios is EA's way to lower production costs. Though... it's not like it's a big secret. Not that hard to figure that one out. Yeah, I think that's one of the many steps EA has taken to try and make the financials work better though it is a more long term solution - personally it's the reason I think DA4 might not take as long as some think. Another, is the way they are pushing Origin (PC and their own distribution means they keep 100% of the price) as well as EA/Origin Access service which eventually may be like Netflix for games. They are also trying to push to publish Indie titles so they can make smaller games which aren't expected to be as high graphic fidelity or as long since their indie, but they get to have a wider range of games to get people in to see their other games as well. Hopefully these steps will allow them to publish not just the big multiplayer games which sell huge numbers and MTXs and DLC, but the RPGs and other genres as well, so they serve all the market - I don't think the single player games will ever be as profitable as their big multiplayer titles but they could at least become more sustainable and give them more diversified product range. Of course this isn't just an EA problem, all the other third party publishers are affected too - it will be interesting to see how they all go about finding a solution.
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Post by Gilli on Jan 13, 2018 1:25:30 GMT
Dan Perry @danim8tionLet’s relieve some pressure for newer game devs and inspiring game devs. Post about some mistake or otherwise you game devs have made in the industry. Here’s my big ones: [continued...] blair k brown @blairbroonI locked 370 devs out of the build and tried to delete the entire game 3 months from Cert. I believe this was the catalyst that turned Inquisition into GOTY. I still remember this! (tbf, the BioGang never lets him forget... ) What exactly happened? I think I missed that one. (I joined the old BSN when DAI was already out)
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 13, 2018 1:55:57 GMT
Dan Perry @danim8tionLet’s relieve some pressure for newer game devs and inspiring game devs. Post about some mistake or otherwise you game devs have made in the industry. Here’s my big ones: [continued...] blair k brown @blairbroonI locked 370 devs out of the build and tried to delete the entire game 3 months from Cert. I believe this was the catalyst that turned Inquisition into GOTY. I still remember this! (tbf, the BioGang never lets him forget... ) What exactly happened? I think I missed that one. (I joined the old BSN when DAI was already out)Of course, that went all went down on BSN Prime, and remembered more for the fallout, and being endlessly reminded of it by the rest of the team. And IIRC, he didn't try, he actually succeeded in deleting the build... somehow. (I'm sure they had many redundant backups, but still...)
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Post by Gilli on Jan 13, 2018 2:08:50 GMT
What exactly happened? I think I missed that one. (I joined the old BSN when DAI was already out)Of course, that went all went down on BSN Prime, and remembered more for the fallout, and being endlessly reminded of it by the rest of the team. And IIRC, he didn't try, he actually succeeded in deleting the build... somehow. (I'm sure they had many redundant backups, but still...)OMG Why? :lmfao: To quote Deadpool in UMvsC3: "YOU PRESSED THE WRONG BUTTON!"
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Post by Avejajed on Jan 13, 2018 2:26:16 GMT
Serious question. Would you pay $75 for a video game if you knew there were no micro transactions? Or I suppose, even if there were? Under any circumstance would you pay $100 for a game?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Jan 13, 2018 2:40:01 GMT
Serious question. Would you pay $75 for a video game if you knew there were no micro transactions? Or I suppose, even if there were? Under any circumstance would you pay $100 for a game? I would gladly pay $75 for the promise of no (or even limited) MTs. Though I don't touch MP, so I don't really have to deal with them anyway. $100? Oof. The game would have to be mighty impressive.
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Post by Gilli on Jan 13, 2018 2:44:04 GMT
Serious question. Would you pay $75 for a video game if you knew there were no micro transactions? Or I suppose, even if there were? Under any circumstance would you pay $100 for a game? Games already cost between CHF 64.- (3DS games) and CHF 89.90 (PS4 games) here. If I had the money right now I'd totally buy this special edition at once.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jan 13, 2018 2:52:33 GMT
Serious question. Would you pay $75 for a video game if you knew there were no micro transactions? Or I suppose, even if there were? Under any circumstance would you pay $100 for a game? Being Australian, I pay $100 for games on a regular basis, since that's a standard price for new releases here in the land of vastly inflated software prices. I paid considerably more than that for each DA game, since I got the special editions in each case. (What this means is that I only buy a new game that isn't on sale once or twice a year.)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 2:53:09 GMT
I haven't paid full price for a game for about 2 or 3 years.
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Post by mechalynx on Jan 13, 2018 3:12:08 GMT
Serious question. Would you pay $75 for a video game if you knew there were no micro transactions? Or I suppose, even if there were? Under any circumstance would you pay $100 for a game? I would. I am, really since the average newly released console game costs around 700 SEK (roughly 85 USD) without the frills. Frills land you another 200. I would have gladly shelled out that money on Dead Space 3, a game I sometimes wonder why I never played and then remember the bullshit micro transactions. And this is from someone who gladly buys cash shop items in Guild Wars 2. I understand the necessity for DLC, though "true ending" DLC piss me off. I didn't like the practice in the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games, but still paid because I thought I was supporting my favourite publisher. Fortunately ME3 and SWToR cured the blind fangirlism.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 13, 2018 3:35:28 GMT
Serious question. Would you pay $75 for a video game if you knew there were no micro transactions? Or I suppose, even if there were? Under any circumstance would you pay $100 for a game? It depends? Like many here, I already pay more for games than 60$. Still, so long as, say, stuff available through microtransactions presents some additional value to me and I know it supports my favorite developer, I don't mind paying for additional things. I understand the necessity for DLC, though "true ending" DLC piss me off. I didn't like the practice in the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games, but still paid because I thought I was supporting my favourite publisher. Fortunately ME3 and SWToR cured the blind fangirlism. I don't mind "true endings", so long as I know that they weren't ripped from base game and cynically sold later. And we know from interview with Gaider that the original 'search for Solas' would be a mere skeleton of what Trespasser presented, because they didn't have time or resources to do it justice back when they were working on main game. Instead, what we got was a cherry on top that their rejuvenated team worked and polished for half a year that we wouldn't otherwise get if it wasn't a DLC. I can't complain at that. It also made waiting for DA4 a year shorter
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Post by Avejajed on Jan 13, 2018 3:56:27 GMT
If paying more is what I need to do to keep playing Dragon Age (or future games like it) then I will. I want them to continue making quality games and paying their employees accordingly.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 13, 2018 4:26:14 GMT
Serious question. Would you pay $75 for a video game if you knew there were no micro transactions? Or I suppose, even if there were? Under any circumstance would you pay $100 for a game? If I want a game bad enough, I'll pay anything for it upfront. I don't buy many games at all so it's not a huge sacrifice. I'll pay for story-specific DLC if I think it's any good. I just don't want to ever have to pay extra money or sign up for co-op just to progress through the main vanilla game. As in, "Congratulations on completing WEWH! Pay $11.95 to siege Adamant Fortress! Pay another five bucks to get out of those awful beige pajamas! For a small fee of $10.99 you may gather your party to fight Corypheus!"
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 13, 2018 4:59:04 GMT
I'd be fine with paying $100.00 for a Dragon Age single player game, yup. If I break it down to cost/hour played that's still mere cents an hour - really inexpensive entertainment if you consider that movies in my part of Canada are $7.50/hour in the theatre.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 13, 2018 5:25:08 GMT
If there's two big main ways of generating more revenue and it's multiplayer and modding I think EA's making a mistake throwing their lot in with MP. MP means microtransactions and that combo burns goodwill like nobody's business. How much antipathy do you need to generate for it to become financially undesirable? Public opinion seems to have played a big role in how MEA was received so I can't think it doesn't matter at all and a lot of that was cuz people hate EA. What happens if people find Anthem as meme-worthy? What if other large companies blatantly benefit from your PR oopsies like with the whole #saveplayer1 thing? Do these things have any effect on morale? Does every dev who has put years of love, sweat and tears now live in fear that their game will be DOA because it has EA's name on it? The most efficient means of getting people to buy stuff in MP currently seems to be lootboxes and while I hear the people in charge of defining what constitutes gambling move slowly I don't thiiink I've seen such a group (preliminarily) define it as anything but.
I don't know how much either of those things matter ultimately though, I suppose all you need is a core audience for your game that'll buy stuff indefinitely and you're set.
Another thing is that I see a company like Bethesda still evolving their approach, like they're monetizing mods directly now and this time around it seems to have gone okay. The barriers are down and when they role out their next big game I imagine that's gonna be a phat stack of extra revenue. With EA I'd expect some grand multiplayer game that seeks to bridge the narrative gap between SP and MP. But Anthem doesn't seem to be marketing itself as such, which seems like such a waste, especially if you have a company like Bioware working for you.
Also, if all this shit could be avoided by increasing base game price then absolutely go right the fuck ahead but don't tell me now that the publishers have seen the wonderland of indefinite income that they'll swear it off for a once off fee increase, seriously.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 13, 2018 5:36:04 GMT
Sadly, even with modding it's difficult to reach a chunk of the audience, and those are the people who are on Playstation. Look at Skyrim Special Edition. PS4 mods are languishing because of Sony's restrictions; it has nothing to do with Bethesda, as evidenced by the state of mods on the Xbone (still not as vast as PC, but that is more due to authors not bothering to port things over). Also, if all this shit could be avoided by increasing base game price then absolutely go right the fuck ahead but don't tell me now that the publishers have seen the wonderland of indefinite income that they'll swear it off for a once off fee increase, seriously. Agree 100%!
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 13, 2018 6:26:34 GMT
Also, if all this shit could be avoided by increasing base game price then absolutely go right the fuck ahead but don't tell me now that the publishers have seen the wonderland of indefinite income that they'll swear it off for a once off fee increase, seriously. I get the impression it’s less of a wonderland and more of a “we can afford programmers now!” thing. In the fight for talent, videogame companies are not only competing against other game studios, they’re competing with the whole software industry. Even if no games used microtransactions, tons of non-game software is now some flavor of subscription. So those non-game companies aren’t having to dig coins out of their one-time-purchase-couch to scrape together salaries. They’ve got war chests. Along with more intangible benefits, such as: sleep, modern code patterns, and a much lower chance of getting death threats from users.
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7,815
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nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 13, 2018 6:46:22 GMT
tons of non-game software is now some flavor of subscription. Yeah, I hate that, too. I'll stick with my MS Word 2013 (the last version before Office 365).
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