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Post by phoray on Feb 10, 2018 6:10:49 GMT
Well, I can't guarantee the dragons bit but no one has ever lit themselves on fire in my presence so I think I'm doing aight. Nobody died from the house I set on fire as a kid! what?
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Post by river82 on Feb 10, 2018 7:11:03 GMT
Do we know Casey Hudson left because he was burnt out, or are people just assuming this?
To be honest I wouldn't want Gaider anywhere near the creative director job for Dragon age, it's not really a role for writers. Casey Hudson, for example, in an engineer and developer first.
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Post by tacsear on Feb 10, 2018 17:01:27 GMT
Do we know Casey Hudson left because he was burnt out, or are people just assuming this? To be honest I wouldn't want Gaider anywhere near the creative director job for Dragon age, it's not really a role for writers. Casey Hudson, for example, in an engineer and developer first. I mainly want him to write DA novels
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 10, 2018 18:12:34 GMT
White_Mage @badhealer@patrickweekes Question about DA: Inquisition, what would have happened if a Warden invoked the Right of Conscription on the Inquisitor before he/she could pass his/her judgement on the wardens? Patrick Weekes @patrickweekesGiven that the Wardens had just tried to summon a giant demon army and were on everyone’s shit list, probably not much. Huh. HUH. Strangely enough, this makes me feel ever so slightly better about the debasement of the Orlesian Order of the GW. I mean, it's still a travesty, but a travesty in service to getting out of a logical lore corner they had painted themselves into. Kind of like an unstoppable force (GW conscription) vs. an immovable object (Inquisition divine writ) situation. It's not a good reason, but at least it's a better reason than, we (writers) need to clear the board of older political powers so that the Inquisition can shine alone. What I'm saying is that, the Right of Conscription was a monkeywrench to the idea of the Inquisition becoming the sole power in southern Thedas. How to dispense with said monkeywrench? Debase the GW so that no one would honor the Right. Like I said, I still don't think it's a good reason to debase the GW, but at least it's understandable and a tiny bit more logical, from the writerly point of view.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Feb 10, 2018 18:18:08 GMT
The Right of Conscription never seemed like an absolute to me. In Awakening, WC needs the king's/queen's permission to conscript Anders. In a Blight, I imagine they are more lenient, but in "normal" times? The Wardens operate in various kingdoms at the discretion of their respective leaders. Push too far and they'll be kicked out, like they were in Ferelden.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 10, 2018 18:28:37 GMT
The Right of Conscription never seemed like an absolute to me. In Awakening, WC needs the king's/queen's permission to conscript Anders. In a Blight, I imagine they are more lenient, but in "normal" times? The Wardens operate in various kingdoms at the discretion of their respective leaders. Push too far and they'll be kicked out, like they were in Ferelden. Good point. Outside of an active Blight, the Right might be a bit more advisory. Still, that's on an individual level. If I were running Weisshaupt, I'd look at the army the Inquisition had built and be very tempted to go for a wholesale conscription. Even with a 60% failure rate on the Joining, that's one hell of a boost to the Order. Fereldan in particular would be happy to see the Inquisition taken off the table that way, particularly after the Inquisition had propped up the Orlesian throne. Two birds with one stone, as it were.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Feb 10, 2018 18:31:34 GMT
I think such an attempt would result in a fight more than anything. They'd never get to the Joining part.
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Feb 10, 2018 18:37:34 GMT
The Right of Conscription never seemed like an absolute to me. In Awakening, WC needs the king's/queen's permission to conscript Anders. In a Blight, I imagine they are more lenient, but in "normal" times? The Wardens operate in various kingdoms at the discretion of their respective leaders. Push too far and they'll be kicked out, like they were in Ferelden. Good point. Outside of an active Blight, the Right might be a bit more advisory. Still, that's on an individual level. If I were running Weisshaupt, I'd look at the army the Inquisition had built and be very tempted to go for a wholesale conscription. Even with a 60% failure rate on the Joining, that's one hell of a boost to the Order. Fereldan in particular would be happy to see the Inquisition taken off the table that way, particularly after the Inquisition had propped up the Orlesian throne. Two birds with one stone, as it were. Perhaps, but then that could be said of any standing army in any nation and the Wardens just don't do that. Except perhaps for Blights... and even then they seem to try and avoid mass conscription (which would end up in a lot of dead people after drinking the blood and that secret getting out) by making nations cooperate with them through treaties. So following story logic, it would be much more likely that the Wardens would try to enact a forced-cooperation treaty with the Inquisition in case of Blights.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 10, 2018 18:46:13 GMT
I think such an attempt would result in a fight more than anything. They'd never get to the Joining part. Between Inquisition and GW? Well, that sort of happened anyway, so I don't see that as a problem. Good point. Outside of an active Blight, the Right might be a bit more advisory. Still, that's on an individual level. If I were running Weisshaupt, I'd look at the army the Inquisition had built and be very tempted to go for a wholesale conscription. Even with a 60% failure rate on the Joining, that's one hell of a boost to the Order. Fereldan in particular would be happy to see the Inquisition taken off the table that way, particularly after the Inquisition had propped up the Orlesian throne. Two birds with one stone, as it were. Perhaps, but then that could be said of any standing army in any nation and the Wardens just don't do that. Because of political repercussions, assuming no active Blight. But who is going to be upset with the Inquisition's power being reduced? As we saw in Trespasser, the Inquisition is everyone's favorite punching bag. Any political repercussion should be in the GW's favor.
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Feb 10, 2018 18:48:10 GMT
I think such an attempt would result in a fight more than anything. They'd never get to the Joining part. Between Inquisition and GW? Well, that sort of happened anyway, so I don't see that as a problem. Perhaps, but then that could be said of any standing army in any nation and the Wardens just don't do that. Because of political repercussions, assuming no active Blight. But who is going to be upset with the Inquisition's power being reduced? As we saw in Trespasser, the Inquisition is everyone's favorite punching bag. Any political repercussion should be in the GW's favor. But there's also no treaty to enforce conscription of the Inquisition and of course, the Gray Warden secret about drinking the blood would get out with about half of the people drinking it kicking the bucket.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 10, 2018 18:59:35 GMT
Between Inquisition and GW? Well, that sort of happened anyway, so I don't see that as a problem. Because of political repercussions, assuming no active Blight. But who is going to be upset with the Inquisition's power being reduced? As we saw in Trespasser, the Inquisition is everyone's favorite punching bag. Any political repercussion should be in the GW's favor. But there's also no treaty to enforce conscription of the Inquisition and of course, the Gray Warden secret about drinking the blood would get out with about half of the people drinking it kicking the bucket. Right, thus my point about unstoppable force vs. immovable object. As for the secret, the"fog of war" caused by the Breach could help cover that up. The GW could pass off the 60% death rate on the Breach, and who could say otherwise? Also, keep in mind that the entire Order kept the details of the False Calling under wraps, not to mention Clairel's crazy scheme, so why not the secret of the Joining? Overall, what I'm suggesting is no worse than what actually happened in the game. While that's not saying much, since there are plot holes that a dragon could fly through in that whole thing, the idea of Weisshaupt conscripting the Inquisition army isn't any worse than the nonsense we saw in the game. It's a pretty low bar to meet, but I don't think my idea falls short.
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Post by phoray on Feb 10, 2018 19:12:13 GMT
I think such an attempt would result in a fight more than anything. They'd never get to the Joining part. The conscription of thousands of men and women who had voluntarily shown up because of their hope and religious fervor? They wouldn't dare. The First Warden would never even attempt it. It's not even Blight Season and they didn't even conscript the available armies during actual awful awful blights.
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Post by phoray on Feb 10, 2018 19:16:11 GMT
Because of political repercussions, assuming no active Blight. But who is going to be upset with the Inquisition's power being reduced? As we saw in Trespasser, the Inquisition is everyone's favorite punching bag. Any political repercussion should be in the GW's favor All of them would be upset pre Coryphaeus being defeated. ALL of them. Although, it'd be interesting to know if the Mark would make Inquisitor temporarily immune to the Blight.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 10, 2018 19:33:54 GMT
I think people are overestimating how many Grey Wardens there are at all. If recall correctly, there are "dozens or hundreds" in every nation in Thedas, and "over a thousand" in the Anderfells.
The Right of Conscription is allowed because the Grey Wardens are respected, not because of their military might. If they ever truly tried to go up against an angry army, on their own, they would be obliterated.
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Post by Fredward on Feb 10, 2018 19:39:50 GMT
It's not like the Right of Conscription is some kind of geas. Centuries of tradition and expectation are powerful tools but you have to have some kind leverage or authority or moral superiority or necessity and the Wardens had none of that at the time. It would be like a king saying "But God chose me as his earthly representative!" on the gibbet after a rebellion, I mean sure but...
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 19:47:11 GMT
It's not like the Right of Conscription is some kind of geas. Centuries of tradition and expectation are powerful tools but you have to have some kind leverage or authority or moral superiority or necessity and the Wardens had none of that at the time. It would be like a king saying "But God chose me as his earthly representative!" on the gibbet after a rebellion, I mean sure but... Well, although Blackwall ain't really a Warden, I assume that original Blackwall was the one who told them that outside of Blight the Right of Conscription 'is as binding as a clever tongue can make it'. Which is why Inquisition can use it as well if we recruit Blackwall (and experience a fallout after truth about him comes out).
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N7
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
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Post by melbella on Feb 10, 2018 19:56:09 GMT
But the basis for that is the treaties, not fiat.
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 10, 2018 21:37:18 GMT
And at times, just the threat of conscription is enough to get the Inquisition what it needs. I remember Josephine saying as much.
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Post by Avejajed on Feb 11, 2018 7:02:44 GMT
I don't know how I'd feel about David Gaider going back to Bioware. He said something weird on Twitter the other day, or maybe I read it, something about "if I ever revisited Dorian..." and I just kind of went "Hmm."
I'm not really a Gaider fan. I think he's crass and bitter and kind of a grouch. But, he did help create the world building for Dragon Age. I just think Laidlaw (😍) was such a nice, charming and funny guy and Gaider is the opposite.
The thing is, though, is we don't know he was burnt out except that's what he said. Maybe he wanted the creative director job, but Mike had it so he left instead to get the creative director job elsewhere.
Anyway, I know he's a good writer. I know he knows Dragon Age. I know hes brilliant, creatively. If he comes back, I'm OK with it. I just wish he was nicer. He doesn't owe that to me, of course, just wish he was.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 11, 2018 8:02:29 GMT
He said something weird on Twitter the other day, or maybe I read it, something about "if I ever revisited Dorian..." and I just kind of went "Hmm." Perhaps you're thinking about the forward he wrote for Fortitudo, where he said, (Notice how he has Dorian make fun of DG's own baldness.) It was at the end of several paragraphs where he effusively mused on writing the character and what it meant for him to be able to do that. It was also part love letter to the fans of the character. From other comments I've seen in the past, the characters that meant a lot to him he carries around with him, and is able to easily slip into their heads. I wouldn't read more into it than that for now. The thing is, though, is we don't know he was burnt out except that's what he said. Maybe he wanted the creative director job, but Mike had it so he left instead to get the creative director job elsewhere. I think it's rather rude to basically call him a liar about his own reasons for leaving. Now matter how tactfully you phrase it, that's what you're doing. He said why he was leaving and there is no reason to suspect otherwise except for the fact that you are admittedly biased against him and inclined to think the worst. [edit] Also, from other things I've seen him say, I'm actually surprised he took that position at Beamdog. He seems to be happiest when he's just writing. I also got the feeling that the responsibilities that came with being head writer were (understandably) frustrating. I don't know him personally, of course, but I would be quite surprised if he wanted the Creative Director position on a AAA franchise (i.e. Mike Laidlaw's job) when that would take him away from writing. An indie company like Beamdog is something different, though. However, we don't know his reasons for leaving there.
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Post by Mresa on Feb 11, 2018 8:14:30 GMT
I don't know how I'd feel about David Gaider going back to Bioware. He said something weird on Twitter the other day, or maybe I read it, something about "if I ever revisited Dorian..." and I just kind of went "Hmm." I'm not really a Gaider fan. I think he's crass and bitter and kind of a grouch. But, he did help create the world building for Dragon Age. I just think Laidlaw (😍) was such a nice, charming and funny guy and Gaider is the opposite. The thing is, though, is we don't know he was burnt out except that's what he said. Maybe he wanted the creative director job, but Mike had it so he left instead to get the creative director job elsewhere. Anyway, I know he's a good writer. I know he knows Dragon Age. I know hes brilliant, creatively. If he comes back, I'm OK with it. I just wish he was nicer. He doesn't owe that to me, of course, just wish he was. Over the years Gaider has received a lot of shit from fans, even had to delete his tumblr because of the idiots there(well tumblr is toxic anyways so no wonder). But back when he was active on the original forums he had to read a ton of crap there, so really it's no wonder if he's being a grouch.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 11, 2018 8:21:16 GMT
In my brief interactions with David Gaider on the old forums, I found him to be a very mean and bitter person....
However, despite being unpleasant to interact with, he did address my concerns, and he is a very good writer. I wouldn't really be upset to have him return to the series, but I have a feeling he's just getting out of games in general.
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Post by river82 on Feb 11, 2018 8:58:23 GMT
In my brief interactions with David Gaider on the old forums, I found him to be a very mean and bitter person.... He definitely seems to have some repressed grievances, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. People work best creatively when they have something to say and a drive to get it out there and bitterness is a handy emotion for that, contentment though ... not so much. On the flip side content people tend to be nicer to hang around and talk with.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 397 Likes: 917
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 11, 2018 9:17:01 GMT
People work best creatively when they have something to say and a drive to get it out there and bitterness is a handy emotion for that, I've never bought into the whole "tortured artist" crap. He writes for videogames, hes not painting the Sistine Chapel.
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Post by river82 on Feb 11, 2018 9:21:53 GMT
People work best creatively when they have something to say and a drive to get it out there and bitterness is a handy emotion for that, I've never bought into the whole "tortured artist" crap. He writes for videogames, hes not painting the Sistine Chapel. I never said anything about being a tortured artist, I said bitterness is a handy emotion creatively. It's handy because it helps when it comes to adding depth to themes, which helps add depth to stories. Why is Planescape Torment so revered? Mostly because of its running theme "what can change the nature of a man", which stems from the writer having something to say. Themes add depth to stories whether they are for novels or for videogames. It's no longer the early 90s where games were 99% gameplay and the guy who wrote the game was the programmer who could spell the best.
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