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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 25, 2018 3:27:57 GMT
I was mainly referring to "yeah, no kidding" part. Hence then I led into collection quests because I thought that was "yeah, no kidding" as well. But that's just your personal dislike of collection quests. For all we know, they're happy with most of that implementation because they know the reasons they put them in there and had fun crafting them. Not every player dislikes those quests, so it's not "yeah, no kidding," like it's some obvious problem. We don't even know what video he was linked, what topics it covered, or how it was all presented. PW's phrasing seems to suggest that it's rehashing certain types of criticism of features that were put in with compromises or other game dev reasons, and that the person making those criticisms is talking out of their ass because they weren't there during game dev. I'd say he's perfectly entitled to be irritated about that.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 25, 2018 3:31:23 GMT
MEA had filler fetch quests too. I'm looking at you, Kadara! And since you had to go through an extra loading screen to do Kadara fetch quests where one stage was in Kadara Port and another in the world, it was especially annoying. I didn't mind MEA's quests for the most part. The ones I absolutely loathed were those random things you would pick up in some kett camp or wherever where you had to find components that could be anywhere on the map. And the worst part is that you can't really even tell which camps you might have already visited! I consider myself a completionist when it comes to those things, but I eventually gave up on those tasks. (Disgusted noise.) [edit] Of course, being able to go through DAI pinging wildly like I'm looking for the Red October helped immensely with searching for things.
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Post by Avejajed on Feb 25, 2018 5:10:57 GMT
I'm on my phone so I can't link, but Gaider I'd going to be at Haven Con with Weekes and is credited as "creative director, Bioware"
Now someone asked him to clarify on Twitter and he's like oh "hahaha must be a mistake"
And I'm not buying it. He said he was still at Beamdog when he signed up and that someone must have been confused. But he didn't come out and say he wasn't.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Feb 25, 2018 5:49:53 GMT
I don't mind fetch quests like the mosaic pieces or bottles where you can see your collection forming. Of course, you had to run into the basement of the keep to see the bottle collection.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Feb 25, 2018 8:50:22 GMT
What do people mean, the shards in JoH were meaningless? They gave us that delicious little morsel left by Geldauran!
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N5
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 25, 2018 12:14:35 GMT
Aragoth @brnslikewenipvpSo youre saying the audience should shut up and not give feedback? Patrick Weekes @patrickweekesMy dude, my bro, perhaps you missed my timeline two days ago, where I made a thread about stuff I personally messed up on the war table and agreed with folks who had problems with it. Only time most devs aren’t up for feedback is when it is presented in asshole form. David Gaider @davidgaiderIt's not like we aren't already painfully aware of every single compromise we had to make along the way just to get the game out the door. Most times my internal thought when I read criticism is, "yeah, no kidding." seb hanlon @hanlsp🥃 Okay, if it's "yeah, no kidding" most of the time then why is it in the game? Wasn't the collection quests a little too much? Nope. Not at all. So if you don't like them you always have the free option of not doing them and leave the collecting to those of us that like to study ancients mosaics, art, design and booze. 4:
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Post by Andrew Waples on Feb 25, 2018 12:54:10 GMT
Okay, if it's "yeah, no kidding" most of the time then why is it in the game? Wasn't the collection quests a little too much? Nope. Not at all. So if you don't like them you always have the free option of not doing them and leave the collecting to those of us that like to study ancients mosaics, art, design and booze. 4:I hate that argument... "Oh just don't do it." So then that shouldn't be a critsism then just don't do it? Just like if you hated the story then? Just don't do it? I'd take less content if that meant more meaniful side content. To clarify I'm including the Inner Circle collection quests and Fade Rifts as well in the "collection quests".
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Post by Rascoth on Feb 25, 2018 13:05:26 GMT
Nope. Not at all. So if you don't like them you always have the free option of not doing them and leave the collecting to those of us that like to study ancients mosaics, art, design and booze. 4:I hate that argument... "Oh just don't do it." So then that shouldn't be a critsism then just don't do it? Just like if you hated the story then? Just don't do it? I'd take less content if that meant more meaniful side content. First, why are you mixing something that is completely optional (thus "don't do it" argument is used) with with story, which is pretty much core of this type of the game? And second, you used the word hated, which indicates you meant preferences. It provokes comments like "don't like it, don't play it". Dislikes are completely different than quality, which I hope you meant the latter. In that case no one's ok with bad quality.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Feb 25, 2018 13:16:37 GMT
I hate that argument... "Oh just don't do it." So then that shouldn't be a critsism then just don't do it? Just like if you hated the story then? Just don't do it? I'd take less content if that meant more meaniful side content. First, why are you mixing something that is completely optional (thus "don't do it" argument is used) with with story, which is pretty much core of this type of the game? And second, you used the word hated, which indicates you meant preferences. It provokes comments like "don't like it, don't play it". Dislikes are completely different than quality, which I hope you meant the latter. In that case no one's ok with bad quality. My argument stems from the fact that (I forget who said it) if most of the criticisms is "yeah, no kidding" then why was it in the game. Thus, I choose the collection quests as a way that would be something I think that could be easily gotten rid off by the devs. In a sort of time crunch sense.
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Post by Rascoth on Feb 25, 2018 13:26:24 GMT
First, why are you mixing something that is completely optional (thus "don't do it" argument is used) with with story, which is pretty much core of this type of the game? And second, you used the word hated, which indicates you meant preferences. It provokes comments like "don't like it, don't play it". Dislikes are completely different than quality, which I hope you meant the latter. In that case no one's ok with bad quality. My argument stems from the fact that (I forget who said it) if most of the criticisms is "yeah, no kidding" then why was it in the game. Thus, I choose the collection quests as a way that would be something I think that could be easily gotten rid off by the devs. In a sort of time crunch sense. It was David Gaider and it was his reaction to criticism. But it can be seen in two ways: him being aware with flaws and him hearing/seeing it yet again. And even in first case, not everyone on dev team might agree with him. BioWare is not hive mind. Also, even if they abandon collection quests, doesn't mean they'd redirect this time to something else. You don't know who was working on them and if they could work on another task, or if said task would be what you want. I believe I read PapaCharlie9 use those beautiful words once, that at some point more people working on one thing doesn't mean more work done. At one point you simply can't do more, because 'work force' is not the only variable in this equation. Plus - as some of previous posts indicates - collectibles are not universally hated, so it's not universally hated flaw as you want to portray it.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Feb 25, 2018 13:33:49 GMT
I'm on my phone so I can't link, but Gaider I'd going to be at Haven Con with Weekes and is credited as "creative director, Bioware" Now someone asked him to clarify on Twitter and he's like oh "hahaha must be a mistake" And I'm not buying it. He said he was still at Beamdog when he signed up and that someone must have been confused. But he didn't come out and say he wasn't. I mean, he did work for Bioware for a very long time, so it's possible someone just made a mistake. Fingers crossed though! Would you mind sharing the link? I would love to read it!
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Post by Andrew Waples on Feb 25, 2018 13:50:09 GMT
My argument stems from the fact that (I forget who said it) if most of the criticisms is "yeah, no kidding" then why was it in the game. Thus, I choose the collection quests as a way that would be something I think that could be easily gotten rid off by the devs. In a sort of time crunch sense. It was David Gaider and it was his reaction to criticism. But it can be seen in two ways: him being aware with flaws and him hearing/seeing it yet again. And even in first case, not everyone on dev team might agree with him. BioWare is not hive mind. Also, even if they abandon collection quests, doesn't mean they'd redirect this time to something else. You don't know who was working on them and if they could work on another task, or if said task would be what you want. I believe I read PapaCharlie9 use those beautiful words once, that at some point more people working on one thing doesn't mean more work done. At one point you simply can't do more, because 'work force' is not the only variable in this equation. Plus - as some of previous posts indicates - collectibles are not universally hated, so it's not universally hated flaw as you want to portray it. I never once said it's "universally hated" at most I implied it as valid criticism.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by tracyjackson23 on Feb 25, 2018 17:03:12 GMT
I don't mind fetch quests like the mosaic pieces or bottles where you can see your collection forming. Of course, you had to run into the basement of the keep to see the bottle collection. The Bottles of Thedas are in the basement of Skyhold? Woah, literally never knew this before. The game really isn't clear on this little tidbit, haha. Is the Mosaics found in the basement too then?
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Post by Rascoth on Feb 25, 2018 17:05:30 GMT
I don't mind fetch quests like the mosaic pieces or bottles where you can see your collection forming. Of course, you had to run into the basement of the keep to see the bottle collection. The Bottles of Thedas are in the basement of Skyhold? Woah, literally never knew this before. The game really isn't clear on this little tidbit, haha. Is the Mosaics found in the basement too then? Mosaics are in the main hall, displayed on the walls.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 17:08:53 GMT
I don't mind fetch quests like the mosaic pieces or bottles where you can see your collection forming. Of course, you had to run into the basement of the keep to see the bottle collection. The Bottles of Thedas are in the basement of Skyhold? Woah, literally never knew this before. The game really isn't clear on this little tidbit, haha. Is the Mosaics found in the basement too then? No, the mosaics are displayed on the walls of the main hall/throne room of Skyhold near the front, and up by Vivienne's balcony . Edit: Ninjaed by Rascoth
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Post by melbella on Feb 25, 2018 17:13:25 GMT
The Bottles of Thedas are in the basement of Skyhold? Woah, literally never knew this before. The game really isn't clear on this little tidbit, haha. Is the Mosaics found in the basement too then? Mosaics are in the main hall, displayed on the walls. Further clarification - 3 are on the main level walls (near the entrance) and 2 are on the level where Vivienne hangs out, one on either side. Took me....6 games?....before I found those two.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 25, 2018 18:05:29 GMT
Nope. Not at all. So if you don't like them you always have the free option of not doing them and leave the collecting to those of us that like to study ancients mosaics, art, design and booze. 4:I hate that argument... "Oh just don't do it." So then that shouldn't be a critsism then just don't do it? Just like if you hated the story then? Just don't do it? I'd take less content if that meant more meaniful side content. To clarify I'm including the Inner Circle collection quests and Fade Rifts as well in the "collection quests". I think the fallacy is called "false equivalency". The collections are lore in another form mostly. It is flavour. And like any side quest can be skipped. If you don't like it. You may hate the argument but it is a fact. And i for one love them,. bottles, mugs, mosaics, lore books, letters, notes on the wastes and what not.
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Post by melbella on Feb 25, 2018 18:08:50 GMT
My only issue with the collections is you cannot get all codex entries in a single PT. That should never be a thing.
As for the, "what if you don't like the story, should you skip it too?" argument. Well? Yeah. If you don't like the game, DON'T PLAY IT.
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Post by Gilli on Feb 25, 2018 18:15:26 GMT
My only issue with the collections is you cannot get all codex entries in a single PT. That should never be a thing. As for the, "what if you don't like the story, should you skip it too?" argument. Well? Yeah. If you don't like the game, DON'T PLAY IT. I agree, that annoys me too. At least you can go and buy missed codex entries at the Codex merchant in Val Royeaux.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Feb 25, 2018 18:17:48 GMT
My only issue with the collections is you cannot get all codex entries in a single PT. That should never be a thing. As for the, "what if you don't like the story, should you skip it too?" argument. Well? Yeah. If you don't like the game, DON'T PLAY IT. There should never be any critsism then?
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Post by melbella on Feb 25, 2018 18:21:09 GMT
My only issue with the collections is you cannot get all codex entries in a single PT. That should never be a thing. As for the, "what if you don't like the story, should you skip it too?" argument. Well? Yeah. If you don't like the game, DON'T PLAY IT. I agree, that annoys me too. At least you can go and buy missed codex entries at the Codex merchant in Val Royeaux. Not all of them, which is the problem. Whatever class you play, you never get the other class spec codices. If you pick Mages, you never the get Envy codex, *even if* you do the WT op with the Chargers that hunts it down.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Feb 25, 2018 18:23:36 GMT
My only issue with the collections is you cannot get all codex entries in a single PT. That should never be a thing. As for the, "what if you don't like the story, should you skip it too?" argument. Well? Yeah. If you don't like the game, DON'T PLAY IT. There should never be any critsism then?
I'm pretty sure that's not what I said. In fact, I just posted a criticism in what you quoted. I just don't see the point of playing OR TALKING ABOUT a game you don't have fun playing. If it's such a chore and you hate it, move on to something you like instead. Why is that so hard for people to do, or understand?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Feb 25, 2018 18:32:28 GMT
There should never be any critsism then?
I'm pretty sure that's not what I said. In fact, I just posted a criticism in what you quoted. I just don't see the point of playing OR TALKING ABOUT a game you don't have fun playing. If it's such a chore and you hate it, move on to something you like instead. Why is that so hard for people to do, or understand?
You said if you don't like it, don't play it. Which then led me to that conclusion. Just be to clear: I like DAI, the collection quests just went a little to far. That's all I was implying. In my opinion.
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Post by Gilli on Feb 25, 2018 18:36:41 GMT
I agree, that annoys me too. At least you can go and buy missed codex entries at the Codex merchant in Val Royeaux. Not all of them, which is the problem. Whatever class you play, you never get the other class spec codices. If you pick Mages, you never the get Envy codex, *even if* you do the WT op with the Chargers that hunts it down. You're right. I forgot about that, because I was going by memory and by that that my codex library is always 100% full,. (= no empty cards) Which is kinda misleading as some cards take the space of others. Makes me wonder, who takes Envy's place in the Codex? Alexius? (I only have two Templar Route PTs as I don't like timed quests)
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