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Post by river82 on Mar 30, 2018 20:17:07 GMT
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekesReminder that @davidgaider and I will be at “Serving Antagonistic Realness: The Makings of a Good Villain” at 2:00 this afternoon at @havencon! [HASH]DAT I was about to say the last good villain these two were involved with was in Origins (Loghain). But then I remembered Anders so ...
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 30, 2018 20:47:30 GMT
I was about to say the last good villain these two were involved with was in Origins (Loghain). But then I remembered Anders so ... I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about Solas. I really liked Alexius and (considering the name of their panel) his character seemed the most "real" to me. He was a good man with ideals, but a personal tragedy made him change
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Mar 30, 2018 22:36:14 GMT
David Gaider @davidgaiderSo @patrickweekes and I are all prepped for @havencon. pbs.twimg.com/media/DZjrn5mXcAA_Ap4.jpgPatrick Weekes @patrickweekesThanks to @gaymerqueen for NOT telling me my fan wasn’t properly angled in the photo. It's okay Patrick, I think David always was a little better at throwing shade anyway...
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Post by phoray on Mar 31, 2018 0:49:10 GMT
2nd time I've heard this phrase this week. Is this what the cool kids are calling it these days?
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Mar 31, 2018 8:29:46 GMT
2nd time I've heard this phrase this week. Is this what the cool kids are calling it these days?
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Post by velvetstraitjacket on Mar 31, 2018 12:07:59 GMT
2nd time I've heard this phrase this week. Is this what the cool kids are calling it these days? It's what the gays have been calling it for decades. The straights are just catching up. We slowly going mainstream. Thanks RuPaul's Drag Race.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 31, 2018 18:07:58 GMT
shade brigade in full force. we've done well :gentleman:
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Mar 31, 2018 19:24:57 GMT
It's what the gays have been calling it for decades... Why does every gay person think gay people invented everything? Its like Chekov in Star Trek. "Trowing Shade? I know dis. It was inwented in Mother Russia!"
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Post by velvetstraitjacket on Mar 31, 2018 20:02:31 GMT
It's what the gays have been calling it for decades... Why does every gay person think gay people invented everything? Its like Chekov in Star Trek. "Trowing Shade? I know dis. It was inwented in Mother Russia!" We didn't invent everything. We only invented the best things. viewthevibe.com/stranger-than-diction-the-origin-of-throwing-shade/
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Post by river82 on Mar 31, 2018 20:56:53 GMT
The phrase irritates me. One of the worst pieces of modern lingo, right up there with "bae", "on fleek", "fam", and "woke". Sometimes appears on lists of "stupidest pieces of modern slang" and it wholly deserves its entry.
Question: Where did it originate? Answer: America. Reaction: Should've known.
To be fair though, it doesn't irritate me nearly as much as the phrase "on accident". Who the hell started that and why? Why, Why, WHY?
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 31, 2018 21:10:56 GMT
David Gaider @davidgaider "You're going to a convention?" "Yes." "Is it for business?" "No. It’s for the gay." "Pardon?" "The gay." *Taps chest* "Represent." "They have conventions for that?" "In Texas they do."
...as a Texan: true. 🤔
may or may not count as [HASH]DAT
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GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Mar 31, 2018 21:11:05 GMT
The phrase irritates me. One of the worst pieces of modern lingo, right up there with "bae", "on fleek", "fam", and "woke". Sometimes appears on lists of "stupidest pieces of modern slang" and it wholly deserves its entry. Question: Where did it originate? Answer: America. Reaction: Should've known. To be fair though, it doesn't irritate me nearly as much as the phrase "on accident". Who the hell started that and why? Why, Why, WHY? Ugh... bae...
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 1, 2018 0:50:04 GMT
sarahesperkin @sarahesperkinMeeting @patrickweekes @davidgaider @karinweekes is seriously a dream come true, and they are just the most amazing people!!! I’m so giddy my scarf came undone. pbs.twimg.com/media/DZqDQdlU0AAdWhE.jpg[HASH]DAT
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 1, 2018 0:52:33 GMT
Patrick Weekes Retweeted Kaylee Christine @kayleegobetween @patrickweekes at @havencon on how to write characters who are unlike yourself:
- "Be a bridge"--write characters such that others can find themselves in your work - Let characters be diverse in ways that are incidental - Acknowledge that some stories are not yours to tell
@patrickweekes on writing diverse characters:
"After you've written a rough draft, give it to a sensitivity reader from that marginalized group. You are going to listen. No, REALLY: you are going to -listen-. They have to overcome a lot of fear to criticize--take it seriously."
"Write something that you are willing to stand behind. Write something that you are willing to answer for. And always do better next time." -@patrickweekes
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Apr 1, 2018 1:00:51 GMT
@patrickweekes on writing diverse characters: "After you've written a rough draft, give it to a sensitivity reader from that marginalized group. You are going to listen. No, REALLY: you are going to -listen-. They have to overcome a lot of fear to criticize--take it seriously." I can maybe sort of understand that if the purpose of writing is mass-marketed video games. But in a lot of writing challenging ideas, groups, stereotypes can be part of the art. Mark Twain comes to mind, and Harper Lee.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 1, 2018 1:12:54 GMT
@patrickweekes on writing diverse characters: "After you've written a rough draft, give it to a sensitivity reader from that marginalized group. You are going to listen. No, REALLY: you are going to -listen-. They have to overcome a lot of fear to criticize--take it seriously." I can maybe sort of understand that if the purpose of writing is mass-marketed video games. But in a lot of writing challenging ideas, groups, stereotypes can be part of the art. Mark Twain comes to mind, and Harper Lee. Presenting perspective that is closer to group with not much of a voice can be as much of a challenge to creator and audience as anything else. This has happened many times in art, very serious one as well. Giving voice to those not often listened to has oft chipped away at, questioned or challenged the established status quo.
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Post by melbella on Apr 1, 2018 1:31:12 GMT
If everyone from such groups shared the same opinions/experiences, that might work. But who made such and such a sensitivity reader a spokesperson for their entire group? Did they appoint themselves? Were they voted on? There's no way they can represent everyone, or say one thing over another is necessarily better for them as a whole. At best they can raise issues and offer a different perspective, but that doesn't mean, nor should it mean, what they say goes.
Just look at how divisive a character portrayal Dorian is. Some think he's great, others find him a cliché and poor example. You can never satisfy everyone.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 1, 2018 1:52:59 GMT
If everyone from such groups shared the same opinions/experiences, that might work. But who made such and such a sensitivity reader a spokesperson for their entire group? Did they appoint themselves? Were they voted on? There's no way they can represent everyone, or say one thing over another is necessarily better for them as a whole. At best they can raise issues and offer a different perspective, but that doesn't mean, nor should it mean, what they say goes. Just look at how divisive a character portrayal Dorian is. Some think he's great, others find him a cliché and poor example. You can never satisfy everyone. I don't think the topic was ever 'how to satisfy everyone'? And I don't think anybody, including BW writers, aims at that. You yourself mention that their characters can be divisive - and we know at least some of their characters are either specifically written to be polarizing, or with awareness that they can be polarizing (Sera, Solas, Vivienne, Celene, Briala, etc). Also - I don't think they've had just one appointed sensitivity reader; that was merely a generalized statement. Weekes spoke of this issue more than once and mentioned having more than one person reviewing portions of the content they wanted reviewed. In any case - I don't think nitpicking someone choosing to consult a limited amount of people is productive; asking someone is still better than asking nobody, especially if someone is uncertain if they got the general idea right, wants to broaden one's perspective, or wants to test it out first on people they know or trust can help them (...and probably sign extensive NDA and keep the damn thing a secret).
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 1, 2018 2:20:18 GMT
I think the idea of a sensitivity reader is flawed because it relies on the idea that every representation of a marginalized group has to be a positive example of that group.
Honestly, having read Weekes’ fiction outside of Dragon Age, I don’t think his dedication to DIVERSITY!!!!!!!!!! particularly improves his work.
But I’m also white and straight and of an older generation, so maybe my opinion is and should be irrelevant.
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 1, 2018 2:48:06 GMT
I think the idea of a sensitivity reader is flawed because it relies on the idea that every representation of a marginalized group has to be a positive example of that group. Sure, there can be negative examples. But a sensitivity reader could tell the writer if their villain is a villain in a boring way. Here’s an example. I’m Asian. I’d be interested to see more Asian folks in media, including as villains. Villains are fun! But I’d be sort of bored if the Asian villains were... ninjas. Because they’re always goddamn ninjas. It’s played out. I’m hyper-aware of that pattern because these are people that look like me. For somebody who’s not Asian, they might not pick up on repetitive portrayals like that, because they’re (justifiably) not paying as much attention when they come onscreen. So that’s why it’s important to talk to someone who’s part of the group being portrayed. Saves the writer from doing something boring.
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Post by river82 on Apr 1, 2018 2:57:26 GMT
I think the idea of a sensitivity reader is flawed because it relies on the idea that every representation of a marginalized group has to be a positive example of that group. Here’s an example. I’m Asian. I’d be interested to see more Asian folks in media, including as villains. Villains are fun! But I’d be sort of bored if the Asian villains were... ninjas. Because they’re always goddamn ninjas. It’s played out.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 1, 2018 2:59:02 GMT
Since Mortal Kombat ninjas is a martial arts fighting game, it’d be weirder if there weren’t ninjas.
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 1, 2018 3:34:39 GMT
Iron Bull's romance certainly felt like reading a wikipedia page at times. Wasn't fun. Same with that transgender character actually. Both would've worked better if the writing had been more natural. It seemed forced and was immersion breaking.
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 1, 2018 4:12:37 GMT
Iron Bull's romance certainly felt like reading a wikipedia page at times. Wasn't fun. Same with that transgender character actually. Both would've worked better if the writing had been more natural. It seemed forced and was immersion breaking. I wonder how they would have come out if they were directly written by people with those experiences. There can be a certain degree of Telephone-esque loss of details when the writer is listening to the domain expert instead of being the domain expert. It’s like when some author deeply researches your profession and tries to write a truthful portrayal. It always, always rings false, unless the author actually held that job at some point. Some of them really try. It usually does produce that Wikipedia effect, where they hope their knowledge of specific details will mask their lack of experience with the whole. It’s like asking an alien to describe an apple. They’re so busy listing the exact wavelengths of red light coming off it, but would never think to describe how it tastes.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 1, 2018 4:26:03 GMT
Iron Bull's romance certainly felt like reading a wikipedia page at times. Wasn't fun. Same with that transgender character actually. Both would've worked better if the writing had been more natural. It seemed forced and was immersion breaking. To each his/her own. Considering that something about those characters is uncommon in mainstream media or mainstream gaming and that overall they were both received pretty positively suggests that whatever they wanted to convey wasn't really mucked up in the process.
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