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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 18, 2018 17:32:08 GMT
Pfft.
The actual Cassandra is hot.
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Post by githcheater on Apr 18, 2018 23:08:54 GMT
I wish the actual Cassandra was that hot.So, uh, howz about them Draggin' Ages? Yeah ... the wait for any significant tidbit of info has been draggin' for ages.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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Prime Posts: 18,258
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 19, 2018 16:34:09 GMT
Jessica Price @delafina777 You know what I love? Villains in stories who DON'T treat their henchpeople like shit. Villains who don't belittle them, spend their lives and laugh about it, etc. Villains you can UNDERSTAND why people would work for.
Jo Berry @joanna_Berry THIS. Plus how much more interesting is that villain as a mirror for your hero, as someone who also commands loyalty and respect, but with very different means and ends?
Related: I really loved how the end of Samson's quest Before the Dawn in Dragon Age Inquisition was realised in the final game by level design. The assault on the Shrine of Dumat ended up feeling like a revenge strike / mirror version of Corypheus's attack on Haven.
In the end it's pretty fun to look at ideas of loyalty and sacrifice from the other side. There's a lot of room to explore with a villain whose followers are willing to sacrifice for their ideals rather than BE sacrificed for no reason.
- My Take: While I feel DA:I did a pretty good job in conveying why people might follow Samson, and particularly Calpernia, I still feel at a loss as to how an obvious darkspawn like Corypheus could convince legions of troops & mages to fight for him. I feel like I've missed some crucial story point... somewhere. 🤔
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 19, 2018 16:55:03 GMT
Jessica Price @delafina777You know what I love? Villains in stories who DON'T treat their henchpeople like shit. Villains who don't belittle them, spend their lives and laugh about it, etc. Villains you can UNDERSTAND why people would work for. Jo Berry @joanna_BerryTHIS. Plus how much more interesting is that villain as a mirror for your hero, as someone who also commands loyalty and respect, but with very different means and ends? Related: I really loved how the end of Samson's quest Before the Dawn in Dragon Age Inquisition was realised in the final game by level design. The assault on the Shrine of Dumat ended up feeling like a revenge strike / mirror version of Corypheus's attack on Haven. In the end it's pretty fun to look at ideas of loyalty and sacrifice from the other side. There's a lot of room to explore with a villain whose followers are willing to sacrifice for their ideals rather than BE sacrificed for no reason. - My Take: While I feel DA:I did a pretty good job in conveying why people might follow Samson, and particularly Calpernia, I still feel at a loss as to how an obvious darkspawn like Corypheus could convince legions of troops & mages to fight for him. I feel like I've missed some crucial story point... somewhere. 🤔 I think he's just a persuasive guy. Don't forget that he was the one who talked Tevinter and other priests to sacrifice sea of lyrium and blood to rip open the Veil and take a trip to Golden City.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Apr 19, 2018 17:12:36 GMT
[...] Related: I really loved how the end of Samson's quest Before the Dawn in Dragon Age Inquisition was realised in the final game by level design. The assault on the Shrine of Dumat ended up feeling like a revenge strike / mirror version of Corypheus's attack on Haven. [...] Not really, though? I mean, I could be misremembering, I haven't played the game in a long time but, you don't go to the Shrine of Dumat looking to curbstomp Corypheous or send a message, you go looking for Maddox to get more information. If anything, the Temple of Mythal feels like a mirror, since you know you're up against Corypheous and you also have your entire army with you (as he did back at Haven).
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 19, 2018 17:20:00 GMT
Corypheus did elevate Samson out of the gutters, giving him a way to alleviate his lyrium addiction and his own command position. Also, Samson has a pretty big chip on his shoulder regarding the Chantry.
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Post by rras1994 on Apr 19, 2018 17:27:00 GMT
Corypheus did elevate Samson out of the gutters, giving him a way to alleviate his lyrium addiction and his own command position. Also, Samson has a pretty big chip on his shoulder regarding the Chantry. In some ways Calpurnia and Samson are both similar to Corypheus in that the thing they put their faith in betrayed/used them. Corypheus with the Old Gods, Samson with the Chantry, Calpurnia with Tevinter. Corypheus' basic aim was to make a world were he would be the person to belief in and create something new - that can be attractive specially as Corypheus does seem very charismatic. It's doomed to end in failure of course, everything the blight touches it pretty much destroys, but both Calpurnia and Samson were at the bottom of the ladder - it's sorta like the slaves in Tevinter going into the Qun - at some point anything seems better.
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Hrungr
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Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 19, 2018 17:35:28 GMT
Jessica Price @delafina777You know what I love? Villains in stories who DON'T treat their henchpeople like shit. Villains who don't belittle them, spend their lives and laugh about it, etc. Villains you can UNDERSTAND why people would work for. Jo Berry @joanna_BerryTHIS. Plus how much more interesting is that villain as a mirror for your hero, as someone who also commands loyalty and respect, but with very different means and ends? Related: I really loved how the end of Samson's quest Before the Dawn in Dragon Age Inquisition was realised in the final game by level design. The assault on the Shrine of Dumat ended up feeling like a revenge strike / mirror version of Corypheus's attack on Haven. In the end it's pretty fun to look at ideas of loyalty and sacrifice from the other side. There's a lot of room to explore with a villain whose followers are willing to sacrifice for their ideals rather than BE sacrificed for no reason. - My Take: While I feel DA:I did a pretty good job in conveying why people might follow Samson, and particularly Calpernia, I still feel at a loss as to how an obvious darkspawn like Corypheus could convince legions of troops & mages to fight for him. I feel like I've missed some crucial story point... somewhere. 🤔 I think he's just a persuasive guy. Don't forget that he was the one who talked Tevinter and other priests to sacrifice sea of lyrium and blood to rip open the Veil and take a trip to Golden City. In D&D terms, he must have a Charisma of... 25. But remember he was still human, and backed by the Old Gods, when he convinced the other magisters to breach the "Golden" City. And they clearly didn't realize the consequences of that. And he wasn't around for the Blights, and how darkspawn became viewed as the mortal enemies of all other races, in every nation. In modern-day Tevinter, the descendants of those magisters now completely deny any ties to them. I just can't see how a 10 foot tall, talking darkspawn is going is convince anyone to do anything other than wet themselves and flee for their lives (or just "Kill it! Kill it with FIRE!").
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 19, 2018 17:49:51 GMT
Calpernia grew up in Tevinter and was used to seeing mages who had disfigured themselves with lyrium or blood magic, sometimes intentionally. As such, she doesn’t even flinch the first time she meets Corypheus.
As for Samson, he was initially cautious when meeting Corypheus and nearly drew his sword, but Corypheus spoke to him calmly and then offered him lyrium for his service.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 19, 2018 18:08:00 GMT
I think he's just a persuasive guy. Don't forget that he was the one who talked Tevinter and other priests to sacrifice sea of lyrium and blood to rip open the Veil and take a trip to Golden City. In D&D terms, he must have a Charisma of... 25. But remember he was still human, and backed by the Old Gods, when he convinced the other magisters to breach the "Golden" City. And they clearly didn't realize the consequences of that. And he wasn't around for the Blights, and how darkspawn became viewed as the mortal enemies of all other races, in every nation. In modern-day Tevinter, the descendants of those magisters now completely deny any ties to them. Yea, and he's now backed by not really well understood power of Blight, powerful Fear demon influencing folks from the Fade and who knows what else. The fact that he didn't seem to understand the power of either doesn't mean that the persuasion part didn't work. Keep in mind that prior to his dramatic entrance he's already built enough of his image and influence over his people or allies. Corypheus is a former priest of god of Silence from a society that thrived on skillful politicking and scheming, and it's only apt for him to silently build his power by means other than just entering a room and declaring folks to follow him. We do know for a fact that he's frequently working through his agents, like in case of mages, or Wardens. And when the cat's out of the bag... as much as normal darkspawn are reviled, they are predominantly reviled for being so single-minded about destruction. A 10-foot tall darkspawn who seems to be at full control of his wits and formidable magical talents that lets him do feats like making pets out of dragons or lifting a mountain into the sky? I'd say he'd find more than a few people drawn to that alone. Certainly enough to convince Venatori (who initially consisted mostly of disgruntled nobility with both money and magical power at their disposal) and start using their money and power to start spreading his web of influence long before South - through stroke of luck - finds out that it was about to be invaded by their own turned protectors and an army of demons.
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 19, 2018 18:32:09 GMT
Pfft. The actual Cassandra is hot. And her "ugh" is perfect. That's why I never miss unbearable joke options
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 19, 2018 21:23:41 GMT
What a beautiful, noble creature.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 22:38:22 GMT
What a beautiful, noble creature.
Look at those hammer toes. 😂
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Post by phoray on Apr 20, 2018 0:46:54 GMT
- My Take: While I feel DA:I did a pretty good job in conveying why people might follow Samson, and particularly Calpernia, I still feel at a loss as to how an obvious darkspawn like Corypheus could convince legions of troops & mages to fight for him. I feel like I've missed some crucial story point... somewhere. 🤔 Makes sense to me when you realize they just see him as a meal ticket/means to their own end. Calpernia and Samson got respect from their followers. Doesn't mean they respected Cory. I remember that one Chickadee that follows Loghain (all I remember is she drops the Summer Sword, you know who I'm talking about). That is some passionate unquestioning (blind) loyalty there, and I could even come round to see why relatively easily. Maybe why they were loyal to him got lost in the cuts, but "meal ticket" works well enough for me.
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Post by phoray on Apr 20, 2018 0:50:40 GMT
giving him a way to alleviate his lyrium addiction lul wut "I hear you've had a problem with your cocaine supply. But here. I have an unlimited supply of crack. Better?"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 20, 2018 1:10:18 GMT
- My Take: While I feel DA:I did a pretty good job in conveying why people might follow Samson, and particularly Calpernia, I still feel at a loss as to how an obvious darkspawn like Corypheus could convince legions of troops & mages to fight for him. I feel like I've missed some crucial story point... somewhere. 🤔 Makes sense to me when you realize they just see him as a meal ticket/means to their own end. Calpernia and Samson got respect from their followers. Doesn't mean they respected Cory. I remember that one Chickadee that follows Loghain (all I remember is she drops the Summer Sword, you know who I'm talking about). That is some passionate unquestioning (blind) loyalty there, and I could even come round to see why relatively easily. Maybe why they were loyal to him got lost in the cuts, but "meal ticket" works well enough for me. Cauthrien.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by qunaripenis on Apr 20, 2018 1:10:37 GMT
What a beautiful, noble creature.
hehehe, ghast hole
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 20, 2018 1:29:02 GMT
giving him a way to alleviate his lyrium addiction lul wut "I hear you've had a problem with your cocaine supply. But here. I have an unlimited supply of crack. Better?" I didn’t say it was a GOOD way.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 20, 2018 1:33:58 GMT
- My Take: While I feel DA:I did a pretty good job in conveying why people might follow Samson, and particularly Calpernia, I still feel at a loss as to how an obvious darkspawn like Corypheus could convince legions of troops & mages to fight for him. I feel like I've missed some crucial story point... somewhere. 🤔 Makes sense to me when you realize they just see him as a meal ticket/means to their own end. Calpernia and Samson got respect from their followers. Doesn't mean they respected Cory. I remember that one Chickadee that follows Loghain (all I remember is she drops the Summer Sword, you know who I'm talking about). That is some passionate unquestioning (blind) loyalty there, and I could even come round to see why relatively easily. Maybe why they were loyal to him got lost in the cuts, but "meal ticket" works well enough for me. Well, Calpernia's short story details pretty much exactly why she follows him.
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Post by phoray on Apr 20, 2018 2:04:23 GMT
Well, Calpernia's short story details pretty much exactly why she follows him. He represents something she wants Tevinter to be. She doesn't know him in any way. She may respect his power and knowledge, but the reason she turns on him is because he's trying to use her as the Vessel-- and I don't see her respecting him much on the other path where she's just cateloging irrelevant artifacts for a Darkspawn Magister failing at every turn. Cauthrien knew everything Loghain knew. She didn't care. The only thing Cory didn't lie to Cal about was their shared goal for a restored Tevinter. That doesn't say Respect to me, maybe that does to you.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 20, 2018 2:21:28 GMT
Well, Calpernia's short story details pretty much exactly why she follows him. He represents something she wants Tevinter to be. She doesn't know him in any way. She may respect his power and knowledge, but the reason she turns on him is because he's trying to use her as the Vessel-- and I don't see her respecting him much on the other path where she's just cateloging irrelevant artifacts for a Darkspawn Magister failing at every turn. Cauthrien knew everything Loghain knew. She didn't care. The only thing Cory didn't lie to Cal about was their shared goal for a restored Tevinter. That doesn't say Respect to me, maybe that does to you. He's only the very first person who has recognized her power and worth despite being a lowly slave, freed her and installed her in position of authority even among people who would otherwise enslave her back. If you don't see how she'd respect him for that... well, I guess I'll only mention that it's established both in game and main story that she's fiercely loyal to him because of that. In other words, for Calpernia this was more than just being given an opportunity to change Tevinter. She trusted Corypheus, and then he broke that trust, which is why she turned on him.
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Post by phoray on Apr 20, 2018 2:30:02 GMT
he very first person who has recognized her power and worth despite being a lowly slave Really, because I saw him and every action he took to be using everyone as peons. His words were empty, and he decided to make her some sort of Magical Cup Holder (vessel) is hardly the worth she was looking for or wanting. You see respect, I can see where you're coming from. But people who believe in "causes" as passionately as she does doesn't see people just like Cory doesn't see people. Another analogy would be how Like some fans can't see that Celebrities are just regular people too. You can't respect a person for who they are when you neither know them, and not only that, you've created a Greater than Life image of them that doesn't match who they are at all. This is just flavor opinion though. I have no intention of changing your mind, just explaining how I doubt Respect, as I define it, is involved.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 20, 2018 2:51:33 GMT
he very first person who has recognized her power and worth despite being a lowly slave Really, because I saw him and every action he took to be using everyone as peons. His words were empty, and he decided to make her some sort of Magical Cup Holder (vessel) is hardly the worth she was looking for or wanting. You see respect, I can see where you're coming from. But people who believe in "causes" as passionately as she does doesn't see people just like Cory doesn't see people. Another analogy would be how Like some fans can't see that Celebrities are just regular people too. You can't respect a person for who they are when you neither know them, and not only that, you've created a Greater than Life image of them that doesn't match who they are at all. This is just flavor opinion though. I have no intention of changing your mind, just explaining how I doubt Respect, as I define it, is involved. At this point I think you're just trying to split hair here and lose the sight of original point you were making. I mean heck - if you think that Calpernia viewed him like some people view celebrities/holy figures/greater than life image, it means that you think Cal not only respects, but *worships* Corpheus And however you're going to call or define it, it still means that she saw him as more than just a meal ticket, or only as means to help her Make Tevinter Great Again.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 20, 2018 5:49:45 GMT
Crystal Graziano @crystalgraz I'm ready for Dragon Age 4. I need Dragon Age 4. Dragon Age 4. Thanks.
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes I guess what I'm seeing here is ambivalence.
Crystal Graziano @crstalgraz Absolutely, ambivalence to everything in the world that isn't Dragon Age 4.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 20, 2018 7:01:32 GMT
Crystal Graziano @crstalgrazAbsolutely, ambivalence to everything in the world that isn't Dragon Age 4. Hah, that's a great response.
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