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Post by phoray on May 19, 2018 13:15:34 GMT
gangrelbeckett^^^ indeed. I don't know if you've played Witcher 3, but there was limited Dual Protaganist there. Geralt was the main character and Ciri was the 2nd main, but limited, character. When we switched, we got to pick the non-main protaganist's dialogue as well. They just have to build it for that from the get go.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on May 19, 2018 13:45:35 GMT
The way Greg is currently teasing his fans... definitely hope it's actually related to Dragon Age now, otherwise he will probably be solely responsible for a mass-psychosis.
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Post by midnight tea on May 19, 2018 13:55:33 GMT
gangrelbeckett ^^^ indeed. I don't know if you've played Witcher 3, but there was limited Dual Protaganist there. Geralt was the main character and Ciri was the 2nd main, but limited, character. When we switched, we got to pick the non-main protaganist's dialogue as well. They just have to build it for that from the get go. We also had a short change of PoV to another sibling in MEA. So it's not like they haven't dipped their toes into protagonist switch (heck, in DAO we have an entire section where we control NPCs in order to rescue our PC). I'm not saying that it's going to happen or even that it's an easy task to do, changing PoV (esp. to the previous PC) and so on, but it's probably a long way from impossible. |
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Post by midnight tea on May 19, 2018 13:56:19 GMT
The way Greg is currently teasing his fans... definitely hope it's actually related to Dragon Age now, otherwise he will probably be solely responsible for a mass-psychosis. If not, I imagine the retribution would be brutal  |
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Post by phoray on May 19, 2018 14:05:26 GMT
We also had a short change of PoV to another sibling in MEA. So it's not like they haven't dipped their toes into protagonist switch (heck, in DAO we have an entire section where we control NPCs in order to rescue our PC). I think the only thing I'd hope for to build on these other examples and Dual Control in the same scene. Maybe people would find that jarring, but how can our Inky and New Main talk to "each other" without being OOC to how we think they'd speak without controlling them ourselves? The MEA sibling just had to report information and scream, but they were also characters with pre built personalities only mildly to moderately in our control to begin with. |
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 19, 2018 14:34:37 GMT
That assumes that Inquisitor will be an uncontrollable NPC at all times. A return as a player character could even be worse. The problem is most players only see their Inquisitor but Bioware have to consider all Options.
For example Player A had romanced Sera and even married her. So it would be fair that Sera would be returing companion. Because Inky and Sera won´t isolate for a long time. But Bioware want to use Sera just for a small Cameo. Or the Hawke DAI Option. No DAI romances returns. Big problem Solas and Dorian will most likely play major roles.
Some Player would be disappointed that they got so less Screentime for their Sera romancescenes but for Dorian or Solas gets tons of interactions.
Player B kicked Sera out of the Inquisition and don´t want see her again. Well because of Player A B gets Sera as returning companion.
Thats only Sera. DAI had 8 Romances.
And that just the Romance Minefield. There are other problems like the Specializations plus Skills, Charatereditor with all of the DAI Options especially the Hair et cetera.
I know that i sound negative but its better for DA 4 that the former Heroes Warden, Hawke and Inquisitor only gets mentioned. This is disappointing for some but i honestly these player are first who criticize DA 4 if their Hero don´t act/sound/look like they remember.
My other argument is Bioware prefers for each DA Game new Heroes. And i can unterstand this decision. This is easy and you can do less wrong. Lazy perhabs but they don´t have the Budget to make everyone Happy.
Therefore is the best solution that only Characters return who are easy to write in the DA 4 Story. From Inquisition Characters like Dorian, Solas, Harding, Charter, Gatt and Calpernia.
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Post by Hrungr on May 19, 2018 14:46:45 GMT
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Post by Hrungr on May 19, 2018 15:08:53 GMT
Greg Ellis @ellisgregAny guesses as to the first letter of the video game? #ndatease #soon/notsoonenough #looselips The tantalization continues... The video game contains two of the letter ‘a’ within its title. Is the character schooled in military ways? What do you think?
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Post by midnight tea on May 19, 2018 15:37:25 GMT
We also had a short change of PoV to another sibling in MEA. So it's not like they haven't dipped their toes into protagonist switch (heck, in DAO we have an entire section where we control NPCs in order to rescue our PC). I think the only thing I'd hope for to build on these other examples and Dual Control in the same scene. Maybe people would find that jarring, but how can our Inky and New Main talk to "each other" without being OOC to how we think they'd speak without controlling them ourselves? The MEA sibling just had to report information and scream, but they were also characters with pre built personalities only mildly to moderately in our control to begin with.storieskn I think it would depend on the story - maybe there'd be sections in which we'd be able to pick the point of view? That'd actually be super-interesting, especially in a situation where opinions of PCs would diverge for whatever reason or we choose to disagree with one another. I have no doubt that it'd be something mind-boggling to design, hence I'd be forever impressed by Bioware if they ever managed to pull that off to any notable extent. Anyway - since I'm not a Bioware writer I can't say I know how they'd solve such conundrum, even if only in theory. But as someone who's interested in telling stories, I have a few ideas: First is that - in a sense - the Inquisitor will be somewhat pre-built in DA4. We have entire world-state where we have their decisions recorded.
We've befriended all or specific companions? Helped the refugee camp in Hinterlands or predominantly executed prisoners? Who did we pick as the Divine? Did we soften or harden Leliana? Okay, that tells us something about the character, not just the world-state. Make a few decisions that indicate that you're not a heartless bastard or the opposite and we can build on that.
I imagine that in DA4 we could further shape the character in sections we can't control by choices and responses we pick in sections we can. For example, we can be given a POV switch before a scene in which both PCs talk to one another to determine the tone or response. I imagine we can do the same with a new PC - talk to crucial NPC about what you think about Inquisitor's decision and that sentiment may shape the whole conversation despite active lack of control over one party.
Nothing I say is really that revolutionary - it relies on mechanics we already know from RPG games: make a few decisions and shape the outcome or people's response that way. Lose or gain approval and we lock conversations or even whole friendship arcs with companions, or the way we can respond to them in certain situations. And if the design is smart I imagine we'd be even able to have whole enemy/rivalry or friendship arc between both protagonists. Tell your companions how much you don't like Inquisitor's decision, maybe even disobey a few orders to result in betrayal, for example. Agree with Inquisitor, follow orders, befriend Inquisitor's friends/save their loved one and it may result in something different. That'd be so cool.
Though it's not difficult to imagine that even if they manage to nail down such elaborate dual PC system down, it will certainly not result in us having 100% control over a PC. But hey - that's not just a problem in situations where two potential PCs would interact with one another; there are always those that are unhappy with choices we're given or directions our characters will be pushed in the story. But I imagine that being able to even partly shape former protagonist is still better than not having much of a choice in the matter. All we can do now is wait and see whether the franchise even goes in that direction, as much as I'm crossing my fingers that it will. |
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Post by midnight tea on May 19, 2018 16:01:58 GMT
That assumes that Inquisitor will be an uncontrollable NPC at all times. A return as a player character could even be worse. The problem is most players only see their Inquisitor but Bioware have to consider all Options.
For example Player A had romanced Sera and even married her. So it would be fair that Sera would be returing companion.
Because Inky and Sera won´t isolate for a long time.
But Bioware want to use Sera just for a small Cameo.
Or the Hawke DAI Option. No DAI romances returns.
Big problem Solas and Dorian will most likely play major roles.
Some Player would be disappointed that they got so less Screentime for their Sera romancescenes but for Dorian or Solas gets tons of interactions.
Player B kicked Sera out of the Inquisition and don´t want see her again.
Well because of Player A B gets Sera as returning companion.
Thats only Sera. DAI had 8 Romances.
But that's why we're likely moving to Tevinter. So we can leave a lot of things behind or streamline them to something more manageable. Sera wasn't recruited/befriended? Okay, then she isn't present. Sera is befriended? Okay, then she's present in some way, with maybe something cute added for romance. ...Why would people care about the hair? In fact, I think most would be ecstatic to leave DAI hair in DAI  And while I've seen a few solitary voices unhappy that they can't perfectly recreate their Hawkes, I think most were content with an option to customize them in Frostbite. The game only has to give us an opportunity to enter CC for that - just like we already did in DAI. Or in MEA, where we design both twins at the start of the game. We also have our class/specialization recorded in Dragon Age Keep - nevermind that if Inquisitor comes back to an extent that they actively participate in fights, they'd likely have to change their fighting style due to lost arm/potential prosthetic and loss of the Anchor. Yet despite all the conundrum with switching to the new engine, they brought Hawke to DAI. And Trespasser heavily implies that Inquisitor's participation in the plot is not only not over, but likely quite important (and, unlike HOF, Bioware so far made no effort to make it clear that they're not coming back). And let's not forget David Gaider basically saying that Inquisition has been cut in half and that 2nd part of the story still exists and is now in Weekes' hands. What will result from that is an unknown. The story could go in multiple different directions for all we know. But given that Weekes has previously worked on a franchise with one PC present across 3 games it's not like he (or his team) has no experience with building on previous content or knowing what to keep and what to discard for the story to keep going. |
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Post by midnight tea on May 19, 2018 16:03:11 GMT
Greg Ellis @ellisgregThe tantalization continues... The video game contains two of the letter ‘a’ within its title. Is the character schooled in military ways? What do you think? WHY IS HE TEASING US SO MUCH!? |
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on May 19, 2018 17:14:58 GMT
Greg Ellis @ellisgregIs the character schooled in military ways? What do you think? WHY IS HE TEASING US SO MUCH!? Followers and likes and retweets, just like any other Twitter clickbait. |
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Post by ladyiolanthe on May 19, 2018 17:15:46 GMT
...Why would people care about the hair? In fact, I think most would be ecstatic to leave DAI hair in DAI And while I've seen a few solitary voices unhappy that they can't perfectly recreate their Hawkes, I think most were content with an option to customize them in Frostbite. The game only has to give us an opportunity to enter CC for that - just like we already did in DAI. Or in MEA, where we design both twins at the start of the game. We also have our class/specialization recorded in Dragon Age Keep - nevermind that if Inquisitor comes back to an extent that they actively participate in fights, they'd likely have to change their fighting style due to lost arm/potential prosthetic and loss of the Anchor. It's even simpler than having to re-create an Inquisitor from scratch in CC. We're not switching engines, so I'm not sure why BioWare would need to reinvent the Character Creator for DA4. It seems like a waste of time and money to rebuild a CC from scratch when one quite adequate one already exists. It should be possible for them to replace the old hairstyles from DAI if they wish, and add new hairstyle meshes and skins in for DA4, as it was possible to add new outfit meshes and skins with the patch that gave us the Inquisitor's wardrobe in DAI. So... the files that code how our Inquisitors looked in DAI should be something that DA4 could import. We could tweak them if we want to change their hairstyles or add some scars, as we were able to do in the DAI Black Emporium. |
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Post by midnight tea on May 19, 2018 17:32:17 GMT
It's even simpler than having to re-create an Inquisitor from scratch in CC. We're not switching engines, and I'm not sure why BioWare would need to reinvent the Character Creator for DA4. It seems like a waste of time and money to rebuild a CC from scratch when one quite adequate one already exists. It should be possible for them to replace the old hairstyles from DAI if they wish, and add new hairstyle meshes and skins in for DA4, as it was possible to add new outfit meshes and skins with the patch that gave us the Inquisitor's wardrobe in DAI. So... the files that code how our Inquisitors looked in DAI should be something that DA4 could import. We could tweak them if we want to change their hairstyles or add some scars, as we were able to do in the DAI Black Emporium. Even if we can't directly import Inky's looks from Inquisition, I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be an exercise in frustration or something - like you said, decent CC for Frostbite/DA title already exists and at best they'd be refining it. And if we get codes just for DA4 CC or perhaps even an option to set a few things and upload them from webpage to the game like we do with world-states it should be enough for the process to not be a bother. |
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Post by ladyiolanthe on May 19, 2018 17:46:16 GMT
Even if we can't directly import Inky's looks from Inquisition, I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be an exercise in frustration or something - like you said, decent CC for Frostbite/DA title already exists and at best they'd be refining it. And if we get codes just for DA4 CC or perhaps even an option to set a few things and upload them from webpage to the game like we do with world-states it should be enough for the process to not be a bother. Says you!  I spent so much time adjusting sliders to change jaw line, nose shape, cheekbones, etc. that it would be a bother to have to redo that all from scratch to make my Lavellan look how she ought. |
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Post by midnight tea on May 19, 2018 18:05:27 GMT
Even if we can't directly import Inky's looks from Inquisition, I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be an exercise in frustration or something - like you said, decent CC for Frostbite/DA title already exists and at best they'd be refining it. And if we get codes just for DA4 CC or perhaps even an option to set a few things and upload them from webpage to the game like we do with world-states it should be enough for the process to not be a bother. Says you!  I spent so much time adjusting sliders to change jaw line, nose shape, cheekbones, etc. that it would be a bother to have to redo that all from scratch to make my Lavellan look how she ought. Considering that my character's look ATM is modded I am personally comfy with the idea that I will not be able to perfectly recreate it. And if they refine the CC there's no way of telling whether we wouldn't be able to get better results either way. I have a ton of screenshots, including those from CC, to help me out and if we'd get an opportunity to save what we have in DA4 that at least will help shave all the time I keep restarting the game and spending hours in CC again because something is minimally off xD;;; |
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Post by ladyiolanthe on May 19, 2018 18:16:04 GMT
Says you! I spent so much time adjusting sliders to change jaw line, nose shape, cheekbones, etc. that it would be a bother to have to redo that all from scratch to make my Lavellan look how she ought. Considering that my character's look ATM is modded I am personally comfy with the idea that I will not be able to perfectly recreate it. And if they refine the CC there's no way of telling whether we wouldn't be able to get better results either way. I have a ton of screenshots, including those from CC, to help me out and if we'd get an opportunity to save what we have in DA4 that at least will help shave all the time keep restarting the game and spending hours in CC again because something is minimally off xD;;; Yeah, I don't do mods so mine is vanilla and in theory could look pretty much identical in DA4 if imported. I'm okay with changing hair and eyebrows but would have trouble getting her facial structure to look close to my original.  |
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Post by enaste on May 19, 2018 18:17:02 GMT
Greg Ellis @ellisgregThe tantalization continues... The video game contains two of the letter ‘a’ within its title. Is the character schooled in military ways? What do you think?
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If it is indeed DA4 - doesn't voiceover usually happen way later in a game? They're not in full production yet... |
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Post by QuizzyBunny on May 19, 2018 18:35:28 GMT
I'm inclined to think Mr Ellis is working on something not related to DA at all... but if so it's pretty cruel to get the fandom's hopes up.
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Post by Hrungr on May 19, 2018 18:43:11 GMT
Greg Ellis @ellisgregIs the character schooled in military ways? What do you think? If it is indeed DA4 - doesn't voiceover usually happen way later in a game? They're not in full production yet... True... though this could be for something DA-related. A spin-off game, promo, or something else to tide us over while they work on DA4. |
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Post by enaste on May 19, 2018 20:00:49 GMT
If it is indeed DA4 - doesn't voiceover usually happen way later in a game? They're not in full production yet... True... though this could be for something DA-related. A spin-off game, promo, or something else to tide us over while they work on DA4. A DRAGON AGE MUSICAL!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 20:06:20 GMT
True... though this could be for something DA-related. A spin-off game, promo, or something else to tide us over while they work on DA4. A DRAGON AGE MUSICAL!! They did that already....  |
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Post by Rascoth on May 19, 2018 20:42:21 GMT
If it is indeed DA4 - doesn't voiceover usually happen way later in a game? They're not in full production yet... True... though this could be for something DA-related. A spin-off game, promo, or something else to tide us over while they work on DA4. All Nug simulators we ever wanted combined in one super title?  |
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Post by Heimdall on May 19, 2018 20:55:36 GMT
That assumes that Inquisitor will be an uncontrollable NPC at all times. A return as a player character could even be worse. The problem is most players only see their Inquisitor but Bioware have to consider all Options.
I actually think it could be managed, if the Inquisitor’s role was in relatively short segments taking place in very specific circumstances where a good number of those options wouldn’t come up. |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 19, 2018 21:00:59 GMT
If it is indeed DA4 - doesn't voiceover usually happen way later in a game? They're not in full production yet... True... though this could be for something DA-related. A spin-off game, promo, or something else to tide us over while they work on DA4.If they swoop in with any of this I will not be a happy camper. Go full DA game or go home.  |
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And while I've seen a few solitary voices unhappy that they can't perfectly recreate their Hawkes, I think most were content with an option to customize them in Frostbite. The game only has to give us an opportunity to enter CC for that - just like we already did in DAI. Or in MEA, where we design both twins at the start of the game.
I spent so much time adjusting sliders to change jaw line, nose shape, cheekbones, etc. that it would be a bother to have to redo that all from scratch to make my Lavellan look how she ought. 
I spent so much time adjusting sliders to change jaw line, nose shape, cheekbones, etc. that it would be a bother to have to redo that all from scratch to make my Lavellan look how she ought. 
