I prefer him more as Warden, but I had to (only time I've done this!) change my canon as I otherwise would have to make the awful decision of either sacrificing a past Love Interest or my own former PC.
That wasn't cool Bioware, I don't mind a little heartbreak but that was too much.
Imagine if you had to pick between your Warden or Hawke.
If everything up to the choice stayed as it was in DAI, it would be a very cold and calculated one depending on how I roleplayed my Inquisitor.
Fact of the matter is that that choice was not a well executed one because it was forced. It didn't hinge on the bonds and emotions the Inquisitor had with and for Alistair/Stroud/Loghain and Hawke, but rather the emotions of the player. That kind of meta choice is a very weak brick in storytelling.
For it to actually matter to the Inquisitor, a lot more would have been needed to be done with Hawke and the Warden, imho.
Last Edit: Jul 5, 2018 15:12:33 GMT by Grog Muffins
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust Life's a b***h and beer's a must
Imagine if you had to pick between your Warden or Hawke.
If everything up to the choice stayed as it was in DAI, it would be a very cold and calculated one depending on how I roleplayed my Inquisitor.
Fact of the matter is that that choice was not a well executed one because it was forced. It didn't hinge on the bonds and emotions the Inquisitor had with and for Alistair/Stroud/Loghain and Hawke, but rather the emotions of the player. That kind of meta choice is a very weak brick in storytelling.
For it to actually matter to the Inquisitor, a lot more would have been needed to be done with Hawke and the Warden, imho.
But that's the point. Knowing what's at stake is a reward for long-term players.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Sure, give something to the players who invest a lot in the series over the years but also make sure it makes sense within the story.
The regret and difficulty evident in the Inquisitor's voice when choosing Hawke or the Warden to stay behind didn't seem warranted because there wasn't a meaningful relationship between the three (there probably was between Hawke and the Warden since they've been traveling together for a while, but certainly not between the Inquisitor and the other two).
If a newcomer to the series (not having played DAO and DA2) got to that point without the personal investment in Hawke and one of the Warden possibilities, do they feel the same about this choice? I doubt it. Do they feel the Inquisitor being so torn up about choosing between them is warranted? I doubt that, too. That's what I'm referring to, there needs to be a balance between what makes sense in the story and giving the players a wink because they have a long investment.
Last Edit: Jul 5, 2018 16:55:06 GMT by Grog Muffins
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust Life's a b***h and beer's a must
There is an old god cultist featured who is a blood mage and he tells Gleam that blood magic can be used to do good things such as heal people, restore failing crops, and protect the innocent.
Ah yes, the Old God cultist in modern Ferelden.
Like I said, the comic is full of nonsensical bullshit. Ignore it. Let it fade into obscurity.
Sure, give something to the players who invest a lot in the series over the years but also make sure it makes sense within the story.
The regret and difficulty evident in the Inquisitor's voice when choosing Hawke or the Warden to stay behind didn't seem warranted because there wasn't a meaningful relationship between the three (there probably was between Hawke and the Warden since they've been traveling together for a while, but certainly not between the Inquisitor and the other two).
If a newcomer to the series (not having played DAO and DA2) got to that point without the personal investment in Hawke and one of the Warden possibilities, do they feel the same about this choice? I doubt it. Do they feel the Inquisitor being so torn up about choosing between them is warranted? I doubt that, too. That's what I'm referring to, there needs to be a balance between what makes sense in the story and giving the players a wink because they have a long investment.
Well, I was a newcomer to the series and I began with DAI. I don' t see why my Inquisitor wouldn't be sad about having to sacrifice one of their allies, especially one that at least one of my companions has a strong personal relationship with. And later, after knowing exactly what transpired in DA2 or DAO, I appreciated the impact it had on me.
That's genuinely one of my favorite things about the series and I consider it one of its biggest strengths: my perception about the narrative and choices made changes the more I know about the world, making even the N-th playthrough different than my first one.
Last Edit: Jul 5, 2018 17:11:23 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Sure, give something to the players who invest a lot in the series over the years but also make sure it makes sense within the story.
The regret and difficulty evident in the Inquisitor's voice when choosing Hawke or the Warden to stay behind didn't seem warranted because there wasn't a meaningful relationship between the three (there probably was between Hawke and the Warden since they've been traveling together for a while, but certainly not between the Inquisitor and the other two).
If a newcomer to the series (not having played DAO and DA2) got to that point without the personal investment in Hawke and one of the Warden possibilities, do they feel the same about this choice? I doubt it. Do they feel the Inquisitor being so torn up about choosing between them is warranted? I doubt that, too. That's what I'm referring to, there needs to be a balance between what makes sense in the story and giving the players a wink because they have a long investment.
Well, I was a newcomer to the series and I began with DAI. I don' t see why my Inquisitor wouldn't be sad about having to sacrifice one of their allies, especially one that at least one of my companions has a strong personal relationship with. And later, after knowing exactly what transpired in DA2 or DAO, I appreciated the impact it had on me.
That's genuinely one of my favorite things about the series and I consider it one of its biggest strengths: my perception about the narrative and choices made changes the more I know about the world, making even the N-th playthrough different than my first one.
Fair enough that you feel that way.
I'm of the mind that it's an emotionally manipulative maneuver to get a response that wasn't earned... like being given a family member that dies before you get a chance to really form any bonds with just to tug at your heart strings because "family dying is, like, really sad you guise!"
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust Life's a b***h and beer's a must
Last Question: Are all Comics Canon? Even this Dragon Age Comic from IDW Publishing which told the story of Gleam???
This especially interessing because Cleam or her Story was never again mentioned again.
Not even a Codex entry of some Item.
I liked the Dragon Age Origins graphic novel. One day I intend to run a pen-and-paper RPG campaign (using the DA rules from Green Ronin Publishing), with Gleam and her companions as the Player Characters. I actually emailed Aaron Johnstone for some details about where the unfinished story was heading and he was good enough to write back.
Sadly, I think the real reason it got cancelled was that Aaron's co-writer, Orson Scott Card, was embroiled in controversy around the time of publication, with regard to comments he made about same-sex marriage. Certain individuals chose to take offense and began to organise boycotts and whatnot. I'd be surprised if Bioware didn't take note, even if they wouldn't admit to it.
Interestingly, I believe the armoured warrior on the front cover with the two swords (who never gets introduced) is the first time we see a Tevinter Templar!
Also i would prefer that Sten is in all Settings the new Arishok. If he will have an replacement in DA 4 when i would fear that
it could limit the Screentime of Sten.
From what I recall, it's straight up impossible for Sten to die. (On-screen, at least.) There's no event in the story where he dies, unlike with Wynne, Alistair, and Leliana. You can fight him if his approval's too low, but as I recall (And the wiki confirms) you can't kill him, only force him to leave. And if you simply leave him in Ostagar, it's trivial for the devs to go "He escaped/was released when the Darkspawn came." Because it's all well and good to lock him up and wait for time to do him in, but when a giant army of vicious monsters sweeps through, suddenly keeping the super strong warrior dude locked a cage to die seems like a very poor idea.
He's not shown anywhere else in the games, as far as I know. Certainly not able to die.
Also i would prefer that Sten is in all Settings the new Arishok. If he will have an replacement in DA 4 when i would fear that
it could limit the Screentime of Sten.
From what I recall, it's straight up impossible for Sten to die. (On-screen, at least.) There's no event in the story where he dies, unlike with Wynne, Alistair, and Leliana. You can fight him if his approval's too low, but as I recall (And the wiki confirms) you can't kill him, only force him to leave. And if you simply leave him in Ostagar, it's trivial for the devs to go "He escaped/was released when the Darkspawn came." Because it's all well and good to lock him up and wait for time to do him in, but when a giant army of vicious monsters sweeps through, suddenly keeping the super strong warrior dude locked a cage to die seems like a very poor idea.
He's not shown anywhere else in the games, as far as I know. Certainly not able to die.
Well, we do know that Sten is featured in Darkspawn Chronicles - which suggests that even in a scenario in which Warden dies and never meets Sten, he survives on his own.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Sadly, I think the real reason it got cancelled was that Aaron's co-writer, Orson Scott Card, was embroiled in controversy around the time of publication, with regard to comments he made about same-sex marriage. Certain individuals chose to take offense and began to organise boycotts and whatnot. I'd be surprised if Bioware didn't take note, even if they wouldn't admit to it.
Well, I was a newcomer to the series and I began with DAI. I don' t see why my Inquisitor wouldn't be sad about having to sacrifice one of their allies, especially one that at least one of my companions has a strong personal relationship with. And later, after knowing exactly what transpired in DA2 or DAO, I appreciated the impact it had on me.
That's genuinely one of my favorite things about the series and I consider it one of its biggest strengths: my perception about the narrative and choices made changes the more I know about the world, making even the N-th playthrough different than my first one.
Fair enough that you feel that way.
I'm of the mind that it's an emotionally manipulative maneuver to get a response that wasn't earned... like being given a family member that dies before you get a chance to really form any bonds with just to tug at your heart strings because "family dying is, like, really sad you guise!"
It's one of those quick, visceral moments in which Inquisitor has to face consequences of their decisions that will leave people under his/her command dead, so IMO that itself requires some emotional gravity that doesn't have to stem from Inky and Hawke/Warden being super-close to one another.
I enjoy all those personal moments between characters as much as anyone else, but I get why they're scant sometimes and it's not like Hawke and Inky don't have a bonding moment in Skyhold and their actions have proven that they're useful allies. That itself would merit something of a response and it's not like Inky drops on their knees and cries eyes out.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Like I said, the comic is full of nonsensical bullshit. Ignore it. Let it fade into obscurity.
As I've pointed out, the codex in game and in World of Thedas would suggest that it isn't nonsensical bullshit. In fact if a comic is written with the approval of Bioware, then I assume that the author would have to run it past them before publication to avoid any glaring inconsistencies with their game world.
To my mind the magrallen and Callenhad's magical dragon blood inheritance were much bigger bullshit but they were written by DG himself, so of course they are assumed to be canon.
Like I said, the comic is full of nonsensical bullshit. Ignore it. Let it fade into obscurity.
As I've pointed out, the codex in game and in World of Thedas would suggest that it isn't nonsensical bullshit. In face if a comic is written with the approval of Bioware, then I assume that the author would have to run it past them before publication to avoid any glaring inconsistencies with their game world.
To my mind the magrallen and Callenhad's magical dragon blood inheritance were much bigger bullshit but they were written by DG himself, so of course they are assumed to be canon.
Well, it could also be one of those things that they simply fished out but that'd be really the only relevant thing they got out of that publication.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Like I said, the comic is full of nonsensical bullshit. Ignore it. Let it fade into obscurity.
As I've pointed out, the codex in game and in World of Thedas would suggest that it isn't nonsensical bullshit.
What, that reference to the blood mage who killed himself to cure his lover of a fatal disease? I don’t see that as healing. That’s just trading one life for another.
I think the comic might have been initially endorsed by BioWare, but its total shittiness and poor sales prompted them to unofficially disown the product, just as they did with ME: Deception.
What, that reference to the blood mage who killed himself to cure his lover of a fatal disease? I don’t see that as healing. That’s just trading one life for another.
It can be both. Just like the blood ritual that Jowan does to send whichever person into the Fade to deal with Connor, that ritual (from the codex) involved all of the life essence, in that case the caster's own. Perhaps traditional healing magic didn't work on this particular disease. But as we know, blood magic is not traditional.
All that aside, it seems to me that the greater point of that codex entry was not that blood magic can cure disease, but to demonstrate that it can do good and that an individual mage would be willing to self-sacrifice, rather than just drain a bunch of slaves (assuming he had access to slaves).
Mountains. Cold. "Let's bring Dorian!" It's good to be Champion!
That was honestly one of the easiest decisions in the game for me. I was actually hoping that DA2 would have some kind of "ultimate sacrifice" ending for Hawke since that seemed like the most appropriate ending for the way my playthrough went. The choice in Inquisition for me became: sacrifice one of my favorite characters in the series (and my Warden's love interest) or a character I felt should have died in the previous game. I felt bad for Varric and Fenris, but it was seriously a no brainer for me. I can see why a lot of players found it heartbreaking, but depending upon your perspective on DA2, killing Hawke can actually feel like the right choice.
Does anyone in the game (Leliana, for example) acknowledge Alistair's death and/or the Warden's reaction to it if you leave him in the Fade? The letter she sends prior to Adamant if romanced contains somewhat of a veiled threat to the Inquisitor if any harm comes to him. Obviously a direct appearance by the Warden would be out of the question, but as a player I would want there to be consequences for pissing off someone so powerful.
Well, I do know that in playthrough I sacrificed Alistair and allied with mages Fiona had a line that sounded quite threatening... then she disappeared from the game forever. Do you think it means that she's up to something and plans to bring him back?
That's an interesting thought. I basically ignored Fiona after In Hushed Whispers, so I never paid much attention to if she even stuck around for the rest of the game. I don't know too much about Fiona's personality since I haven't read the novel she appears in, but if she's the leader of the mage rebellion I wouldn't put it past her to try some unorthodox magic to bring Alistair back. I'm not sure how I'd feel about that as a player, though, as it would essentially invalidate the player's choice.
It still seems strange that Fiona would be the only one to acknowledge Alistair's death (meaning in templar playthroughs no one says anything?). He had a good relationship with Leliana, so I would assume she would mourn him in some way. Morrigan always had strong opinions about him, so I could at least see her snarking about his death (possibly a different reaction if he's Kieran's father). Even Blackwall might feel the need to say something about the death of a "fellow" Warden. Varric's grief was so prominent if Hawke dies, so I would expect something similar from Alistair's friends/associates.
I know Leliana has a reaction to Alistair being left in the fade. It’s been a long while but I recall she asks the Inquisitor about him, I chose something about him giving his life for us to escape and her response was like, “ He would. Oh that dear, sweet boy.”
I know Leliana has a reaction to Alistair being left in the fade. It’s been a long while but I recall she asks the Inquisitor about him, I chose something about him giving his life for us to escape and her response was like, “ He would. Oh that dear, sweet boy.”
Oh my. My icy hatred of Leliana melted just a little bit.
Vegan, Year 1 of Med School. Zevran, Fenris, Cullen, and Thane.
I know Leliana has a reaction to Alistair being left in the fade. It’s been a long while but I recall she asks the Inquisitor about him, I chose something about him giving his life for us to escape and her response was like, “ He would. Oh that dear, sweet boy.”
Oh my. My icy hatred of Leliana melted just a little bit.
I pre-ordered it from Amazon! together with the Dragon Age Omnibus (collects The Silent Grove, Those Who Speak, and Until We Sleep), Magekiller and Knight Errant. Delivery: August 17th - 22th
Greed is neither good, nor bad. Everybody wants something they don't have
together with the Dragon Age Omnibus (collects The Silent Grove, Those Who Speak, and Until We Sleep), Magekiller and Knight Errant. 
