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Post by arvaarad on Oct 11, 2018 11:20:52 GMT
Although I agree with you that a great deal of unconscious bias is the result of social programming, arvaraad, I'm not even sure how you could possibly construe this particular situation as indicative of some kind of bias. Dorian appears to have a lighter complexion in one panel — so what? Maybe it's just the artist's interpretation of how the lighting in that corner of the tavern works? It does seem pretty bright. Prejudice, sexism and homophobia are massive problems in western society, but there is unquestionably a group of individuals who frequent Tumblr and the like that have made "outrage" into a kind of sport. They don't actually help tackle the issues they're supposedly worried about; they're just more concerned with looking more progressive than the rest of us, and they do this by dissecting every work of popular culture AND fan culture for possible -isms. This isn't even the first time this issue has arisen in relation to a Dragon Age comic. I remember people flipping their shit over Isabela looking kind of pale on the inside cover art for The Silent Grove, despite being dark-skinned throughout TSG, Those Who Speak and Until We Sleep. Also a bunch of weird skintones in Heroes of Dragon Age, IIRC. There’s sort of an annoying fuzzy line that appears. So something can seem like an overreaction, or an appropriate reaction, to different rational people. Let me put it this way. If you see someone chugging a bottle of vodka, you might raise an eyebrow. But if you see someone drinking 1 or 2 beers, that’s within the realm of what a normal healthy person might drink. However... if throughout the day, they’re knocking back 20, then that’s a huge problem. We’re conditioned to look for “vodka” level racism (say, a dude in a Klan hat), so reacting to “beer” level racism (say, someone gets passed over for 1 job, but it’s sort of borderline whether bias played any role or if the other person was just better qualified) can feel a little silly. After all, 1 beer is totally within the bounds of normal behavior, maybe there’s a valid reason things went that way. The problem is that 20 beers still gets you drunk. If someone keeps encountering that slight, barely-there bias throughout their whole day, it sucks just as bad as the vodka racism. The end result is frustrating for all parties. The person who’s seeing 1 beer thinks “this 1 beer is completely healthy and not a problem, why is everyone overreacting”. Unfortunately, the person who experiences the beer in context of the 20 beers has no other way to tackle them other than addressing them one-by-one. If those 20 “beer biases” had been 1 “vodka bias”, it would be much easier to get buy-in from the person who only sees 1.
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 11, 2018 14:06:20 GMT
We’re conditioned to look for “vodka” level racism (say, a dude in a Klan hat), so reacting to “beer” level racism (say, someone gets passed over for 1 job, but it’s sort of borderline whether bias played any role or if the other person was just better qualified) can feel a little silly. I get it, but I think this is kind of the crux of the issue, whether some of these “beer” level incidents are actually bias incidents at all or if there were other factors. Or whether someone who has encountered 15 “beers” will identify another five incidents that way because that’s what they’ve encountered before and it fits their experience. That’s what makes it really fuzzy. But at the risk of derailing us further from Dragon Age, I’ll leave that discussion here. Ahem, I liked the preview.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 11, 2018 18:09:35 GMT
Let me put it this way. If you see someone chugging a bottle of vodka, you might raise an eyebrow. But if you see someone drinking 1 or 2 beers, that’s within the realm of what a normal healthy person might drink. However... if throughout the day, they’re knocking back 20, then that’s a huge problem. We’re conditioned to look for “vodka” level racism (say, a dude in a Klan hat), so reacting to “beer” level racism (say, someone gets passed over for 1 job, but it’s sort of borderline whether bias played any role or if the other person was just better qualified) can feel a little silly. After all, 1 beer is totally within the bounds of normal behavior, maybe there’s a valid reason things went that way. The problem is that 20 beers still gets you drunk. If someone keeps encountering that slight, barely-there bias throughout their whole day, it sucks just as bad as the vodka racism. The end result is frustrating for all parties. The person who’s seeing 1 beer thinks “this 1 beer is completely healthy and not a problem, why is everyone overreacting”. Unfortunately, the person who experiences the beer in context of the 20 beers has no other way to tackle them other than addressing them one-by-one. If those 20 “beer biases” had been 1 “vodka bias”, it would be much easier to get buy-in from the person who only sees 1. This all assumes the people raising this grievance over Dorian's skin colour are targets of "beer" level bias themselves. More likely they're the professionally offended, ie. people who spend all their time looking for things to get outraged over. The Dragon Age "fans" who constantly vent on Tumblr about the series are, more often than not, this type. They're not allies or victims — they're just attention whores and busybodies.
But as Heimdall said, enough of this derailment of the Twitter thread.
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Twitter Guru
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 11, 2018 19:07:49 GMT
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Post by TabithaTH on Oct 11, 2018 19:43:30 GMT
I am kinda bummed that I had literally just bought the pack with the ordinary version of all 5 books, when I discover that they are making these pretty versions with drawings and stuff. Oh well, at least they where cheap .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 22:41:28 GMT
Honestly, I don't think that clique is interested in anything but being miserable and dragging other people down with them. At some point the nitpicking and criticism became pathological instead of informative and useful. I've learned to block anyone who is a thief of joy, or isn't adding anything constructive to my experience of fandom.
The only solution for countering bias seems to bring in more eyeballs, more stories, from more diverse groups of people, and to try to redirect the genre narrative. The movie Black Panther seemed to be effective in this, and I won't be surprised if we end up seeing DA4 taking cues from it in some fashion.
As far as obnoxious comments from strangers go, try my favorite, "You'd be prettier if you'd smile more". Small aggressions do take their toll, like death by a million papercuts, and it is shitty, I agree.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 11, 2018 22:45:02 GMT
I certainly hear your grief over that “Smile more” crap. Too bad you can’t give ‘em the Jessica Jones response. (Major Season 1 spoilers in that link, BTW.) Now, not to be a dick, but let’s move this thread onward to other matters. Emily (aka Domino) pentapodSignal boosting this cool fan effort get a #DragonAge #Dragon4geDay started this year! This trailer has pleasing amounts of Alistair, so my grey warden certainly approves.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 11, 2018 23:10:47 GMT
I certainly hear your grief over that “Smile more” crap. Too bad you can’t give ‘em the Jessica Jones response. (Major Season 1 spoilers in that link, BTW.) Now, not to be a dick, but let’s move this thread onward to other matters. Emily (aka Domino) pentapodSignal boosting this cool fan effort get a #DragonAge #Dragon4geDay started this year! This trailer has pleasing amounts of Alistair, so my grey warden certainly approves. Dragon Age 4 day? I feel like someone is projecting just a little bit.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 12, 2018 0:22:14 GMT
No, no, the 4 looks like an A, as in DA. The poorly-conceived and poorly-received Fant4stic from 2015 employed this same visual trickery.
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GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Oct 12, 2018 5:15:48 GMT
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Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 12, 2018 13:13:10 GMT
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Post by Serza on Oct 12, 2018 13:28:14 GMT
Oh, shit. Hello there, Hahren.
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Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 12, 2018 16:04:58 GMT
BioWare @bioware“I suspect you have queggstions.” #WorldEggDay Electronic Arts@EA this is so dumb i love it
BioWare @bioware 🥚
[HASH]DAT
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Post by cribbian on Oct 12, 2018 16:46:42 GMT
And Gaider was suprised that the fans was still doing the Solas=Egg thing
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Post by Rascoth on Oct 12, 2018 17:18:14 GMT
BioWare @bioware“I suspect you have queggstions.” #WorldEggDay Electronic Arts@EA this is so dumb i love it
BioWare @bioware 🥚
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Post by colfoley on Oct 12, 2018 21:12:33 GMT
So, not saying anyone should ask this but as a theoretical excercise I wonder how they would answer a question along the lines of: 'so we know DA 4 hasn't been announced yet but if there WERE a DA 4 how close would you say it is to being completed?'
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Post by Serza on Oct 12, 2018 21:19:11 GMT
How about "Nice try"?
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Post by NotN7 on Oct 12, 2018 21:23:32 GMT
LOL! I'm sure they are at least (shrug) thinking about it.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 12, 2018 22:02:25 GMT
So, not saying anyone should ask this but as a theoretical excercise I wonder how they would answer a question along the lines of: 'so we know DA 4 hasn't been announced yet but if there WERE a DA 4 how close would you say it is to being completed?' The answer to that question is “ANTHEM ANTHEM ANTHEM.”
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Post by Serza on Oct 12, 2018 22:03:59 GMT
So, not saying anyone should ask this but as a theoretical excercise I wonder how they would answer a question along the lines of: 'so we know DA 4 hasn't been announced yet but if there WERE a DA 4 how close would you say it is to being completed?' The answer to that question is “ANTHEM ANTHEM ANTHEM.”
And with luck "DA4 DA4 DA4" in six months or so.
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Post by natetrace on Oct 12, 2018 23:19:57 GMT
I'm just wondering if there will be a tease for DA4 at e3 2019 or if it will all be post launch Anthem content. I know there will be Anthem content promoted, just wondering if they'll give us a nugget of DA4 info. The teasing is only giving me more gray hair.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 12, 2018 23:25:01 GMT
I'm just wondering if there will be a tease for DA4 at e3 2019 or if it will all be post launch Anthem content. I know there will be Anthem content promoted, just wondering if they'll give us a nugget of DA4 info. The teasing is only giving me more gray hair. I heard something about there possibly being a big announcement from CDPR on E3 concerning Cyberpunk. And while I don't think the titles are competing (different genres and all) I think it depends how much spotlight BW devs would want on DA4 announcement. Would that be a subdued thing or would they want maximum attention?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 12, 2018 23:25:18 GMT
So, not saying anyone should ask this but as a theoretical excercise I wonder how they would answer a question along the lines of: 'so we know DA 4 hasn't been announced yet but if there WERE a DA 4 how close would you say it is to being completed?' More than 0% and less than 100%.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Oct 13, 2018 0:06:36 GMT
I certainly hear your grief over that “Smile more” crap. Too bad you can’t give ‘em the Jessica Jones response. (Major Season 1 spoilers in that link, BTW.) Now, not to be a dick, but let’s move this thread onward to other matters. Emily (aka Domino) pentapodSignal boosting this cool fan effort get a #DragonAge #Dragon4geDay started this year! This trailer has pleasing amounts of Alistair, so my grey warden certainly approves. Wouldn't it make more sense for DA day to be September 30th? 9:30? The year DAO was set? It'd be nerdier, anyway. lol
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Post by natetrace on Oct 13, 2018 0:10:53 GMT
I'm just wondering if there will be a tease for DA4 at e3 2019 or if it will all be post launch Anthem content. I know there will be Anthem content promoted, just wondering if they'll give us a nugget of DA4 info. The teasing is only giving me more gray hair. I heard something about there possibly being a big announcement from CDPR on E3 concerning Cyberpunk. And while I don't think the titles are competing (different genres and all) I think it depends how much spotlight BW devs would want on DA4 announcement. Would that be a subdued thing or would they want maximum attention? Hmm. Cyberpunk will be big. For me yes a DA4 reveal would overshadow Cyberpunk, but I doubt that'll be the case for the majority. I don't think it needs maximum attention, just let people know it's there. I think they would have to announce something, just because it's been three years since the last dlc, and for their own sake they might want to show something, anything to keep a good level of interest in the series.
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