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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 13, 2018 17:12:41 GMT
it sounds like a paranoid guy who listens to too many YouTube videos about BioWare being “woke.” Well... I mean the writers *are* generally "woke", progressive, political liberals. On a personal level. Its not like "paranoid" people are imagining it; its all over many of their twitter accounts. I do think that the writers, so far, have generally managed to keep the writing to what makes a good story, as opposed to ham-fisted messaging, when it comes to the games themselves. Certain dialogue trees with Bull not withstanding.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 13, 2018 17:23:26 GMT
I'm mostly baffled by the people who say:
- "Colour, gender, orientation shouldn't be a factor in whether you like a game or not!" as an argument in support of not having POC, well-written women who are not just there as eye candy, or LGBT+ representation in games. Can they not see how hypocritical that statement is?
- "I use games to escape the real world, which sucks!" So do we all, my friend, so do we all. And by "we," I mean people who are not straight, white, and male as well as those who are.
As John Epler stated in one of his replies, inclusion of certain groups does not mean exclusion of others.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by LazarusV2 on Dec 13, 2018 17:30:49 GMT
I'm still holding out hope that the "3 years away" thing is dead wrong. Even if I do see a lot of people quoting it as if its a certainty now. lol While it could be true, I'm thinking more 2 years. From the sounds of things they've had at least some people working on it for a while. I doon't think 2019 since they'll probably want that to be Anthem's year, so I think 2020. Plus technically you can say the leak is right if you look at it as the last month of 29018 counting as a year: 2018, 2019, 2020. Agree with you both. But I do remember that Anthem should supposedely get released this fall, and was pushed to Q1 2019. So maybe in some original plan, the year 2019 was "free" for some other project. But I also believe that the only big problem for DA4 now is that they need some more manpower so they can work quickly on things that they have probably already in midst of progress. I seriously can't take the statement from some people and especially from that "truthful insiders article" that folks like Patrick Weekes, Matthew Goldman, Daniel Kalding, John Epler and many others were doing and was paid the last three years for nothing or just concepts. I mean even officialy confirming that Courtney Woods is working again with Patrick Weekes suggest that she could work on DA4 at least from the release of MEA, which would be more than year and half by now.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 13, 2018 17:33:56 GMT
I'm mostly baffled by the people who say: - "Colour, gender, orientation shouldn't be a factor in whether you like a game or not!" as an argument in support of not having POC, well-written women who are not just there as eye candy, or LGBT+ representation in games. Can they not see how hypocritical that statement is? - "I use games to escape the real world, which sucks!" So do we all, my friend, so do we all. And by "we," I mean people who are not straight, white, and male as well as those who are. As John Epler stated in one of his replies, inclusion of certain groups does not mean exclusion of others. Do you know the person asking the question to Epler is a straight white male, though? Also, if he is, so what? And before you answer that he doesn't know what its like to be disliked for what his orientation, race, and gender are, you did just list all three of those things about him as if they were reasons his opinion was invalid. And its very common on the internet, and its even creeping into real life, to use "straight white man" as a pejorative, regardless of how logical or not their reasoning or opinion on something is. And then people are surprised when straight white men, and those that know one(or just believe in general fairness), get a bit defensive about the topic and round and round we go.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 13, 2018 17:40:18 GMT
I'm mostly baffled by the people who say: - "Colour, gender, orientation shouldn't be a factor in whether you like a game or not!" as an argument in support of not having POC, well-written women who are not just there as eye candy, or LGBT+ representation in games. Can they not see how hypocritical that statement is? - "I use games to escape the real world, which sucks!" So do we all, my friend, so do we all. And by "we," I mean people who are not straight, white, and male as well as those who are. As John Epler stated in one of his replies, inclusion of certain groups does not mean exclusion of others. Do you know the person asking the question to Epler is a straight white male, though? Also, if he is, so what? And before you answer that he doesn't know what its like to be disliked for what his orientation, race, and gender are, you did just list all three of those things about him as if they were reasons his opinion was invalid. And its very common on the internet, and its even creeping into real life, to use "straight white man" as a pejorative, regardless of how logical or not their reasoning or opinion on something is. And then people are surprised when straight white men, and those that know one(or just believe in general fairness), get a bit defensive about the topic and round and round we go. In the particular cases I am referring to here, they both self-identified as straight white males, who are, according to them, the only people who play/buy video games. ETA: I know plenty of people (straight white men and others) who don't espouse these views; I'm not baffled by them.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 13, 2018 17:48:26 GMT
"I use games to escape the real world, which sucks!" So do we all, my friend, so do we all. And by "we," I mean people who are not straight, white, and male as well as those who are.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 13, 2018 18:00:31 GMT
Do you know the person asking the question to Epler is a straight white male, though? Also, if he is, so what? And before you answer that he doesn't know what its like to be disliked for what his orientation, race, and gender are, you did just list all three of those things about him as if they were reasons his opinion was invalid. And its very common on the internet, and its even creeping into real life, to use "straight white man" as a pejorative, regardless of how logical or not their reasoning or opinion on something is. And then people are surprised when straight white men, and those that know one(or just believe in general fairness), get a bit defensive about the topic and round and round we go. In the particular cases I am referring to here, they both self-identified as straight white males, who are, according to them, the only people who play/buy video games. Well, if they're claiming that, then yeah, that's just stupid. lol
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 13, 2018 18:01:01 GMT
These people who whine about politics in-game should just come right out and say what they are actually thinking instead of hiding behind '' I don't want politics in video games '' which is a pretty reasonable opinion to have, actually!
Now, I do agree that the '' Qun retcon '' and Krem were really hard to get through and BW needs to do much better, BUT, this is not the case of just lore retcons that these people are pissed off about. It's about '' eww ugly women, why are women stronger than men, why are there PoC in a medieval setting, ewww PoC, why don't straight men have more content than women or the gays, why are there gays in my medieval RPG, eww gays ''
NOW, not ALL people who criticize politics in Dragon Age think this, and may have some valid opinions and criticism, like not wanting lore retcons and making the game more PC. But I've seen enough shit browsing through non-liberal echo chamber sites where most of the comments do boil down to '' ew ugly women, ew gays, ew PoC '' to make an assumption that A LOT of this cry about politics is ignorance, or flatout racism, homophobia and sexism.
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Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 13, 2018 18:09:39 GMT
Hey guys, I think it's time to move the DA & Politics discussion to a new thread. Thanks!
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Twitter Guru
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 13, 2018 18:10:10 GMT
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 13, 2018 18:11:54 GMT
To clarify, by "dialogue trees with Bull" I was referring to my own experience of Bull's reaction to 3/4 of the options you can pick when Krem reveals he's trans. First time thru that convo, I picked "I didn't realize you were a woman." cus I honestly hadn't. I wasn't particularly impressed with Bull's attitude about an honest, confused reaction. And the reactions to the other two options I felt were kinda preachy, iirc. I do agree the actual "The Qun accepts trans people." was definitely a retcon, but it was a retcon in line with that whole Cartesian dualism, body/mind separation thing they push in their philosophy so it didn't bother me too much. Hey guys, I think it's time to move the DA & Politics discussion to a new thread. Thanks! .... First thing I see once I hit "post" b/c of course it is. XD Sorry.
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midnight tea
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gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 13, 2018 18:23:00 GMT
Uh - on a second thought I probably shouldn't have brought that twitter exchange here, but I thought that the mention that we may get more info sometime after New Year was worth noting, even if it meant bringing preceding tweets for more context...
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 13, 2018 19:02:30 GMT
I just wanted to give everyone a heads-up - As DA is starting to pick up again, we will SOON TM have an OFFICIAL DRAGON AGE CHAT THREAD! The plan will be to restrict the Twitter Thread to tweets/news only, then discussions can carry over into the chat thread (or create a new thread for the bigger topics). The Chat Thread will be there for pretty much any DA discussion that doesn't necessarily warrant it's own thread (eg. Fan videos/art, etc.) Understandably, it'll take some time get used to the new arrangement, so we'll be gently nudging people over for the next little while (and moving posts). And if the regulars here can help out our newer members, that'd be awesome.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 13, 2018 19:23:43 GMT
Uh - on a second thought I probably shouldn't have brought that twitter exchange here, but I thought that the mention that we may get more info sometime after New Year was worth noting, even if it meant bringing preceding tweets for more context... As far as I'm concerned, that was entirely fine. It was relevant (i.e. connected to Dragon Age) and provided context for some of John Eplers remarks. There was some brief reaction/discussion (which is also fine) before Hrungr suggested that it either have it's own thread (to be opened by the people taking part) or end. So the system works!
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Dread Wolf Rider
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Post by Ajna on Dec 13, 2018 19:33:29 GMT
I can't wait for the day that we get another twitter chat thread! The build up is almost as much fun as the actual game...
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Post by Bondari the Reloader on Dec 13, 2018 19:40:19 GMT
True, but a developer friend had put some doubts into my head because they thought the Keep wouldn't be necessary since the next DA game will be on Frostbite still. So in theory, you could import saves from DAI directly into DA4 without issues like there would have been between DAO/DA2 and DAI. Yea, but the Keep isn't there just to record the game-states from our saves, but also set up new world-states without the necessity to replay all of the games, including DAI - which is one of the things I like the Keep for, and I suspect I'm not the only one. I mean, even if I replay DAI multiple times prior to DA4, I don't think I'll have the time or will to replay any scenario I'd like to potentially use in TDWR and that would certainly impact my willingness to then replay DA4 or any other future game. Nevermind that I don't think there are many games in recent memory which utilize game saves from one game or another...? I think that's a thing of the past. The DA Keep is just a more modern and less bug-prone way to do that. This is one of my favorite parts about the Keep, honestly. I love Origins and Inquisition, but I never want to play DA2 again. This way, I can play Origins, randomize some DA2 choices in the Keep, and jump straight into Inquisition. I also just really love the randomize feature. For my current Origins/Inquisition run, I randomized a world state in the Keep for all three games (after locking a few specific options) and am trying to adhere to it as closely as possible. I like being able to see all of the potential consequences for the choices, but if I'm not feeling particularly strongly about something, randomizing helps me not make the same decisions over and over again out of habit. Basically, the Keep is awesome from a narrative exploration/what-if standpoint. Please, Bioware, keep the Keep!
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Dec 13, 2018 19:54:24 GMT
Nice Cassandra, but don't remember the quote. I can't wait for the day that we get another twitter chat thread! The build up is almost as much fun as the actual game... I could live without it after what happening here yesterday...
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N3
Dread Wolf Rider
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ajna on Dec 13, 2018 19:57:52 GMT
Nice Cassandra, but don't remember the quote. I can't wait for the day that we get another twitter chat thread! The build up is almost as much fun as the actual game... I could live without it after what happening here yesterday... I missed that, the hype is contagious though, I remember that and I'm looking forward to it all over again!
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 13, 2018 19:59:14 GMT
I can't wait for the day that we get another twitter chat thread! The build up is almost as much fun as the actual game... I could live without it after what happening here yesterday... All the BSN Forum Rules & Copyright Rules still apply to the chat thread and will be enforced.
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Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 13, 2018 20:42:00 GMT
John Epler @eplerjcThis job is always fun. Sometimes, it is very, -very- fun.
[HASH]DAT
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Post by Andrew Waples on Dec 13, 2018 20:43:15 GMT
John Epler @eplerjcThis job is always fun. Sometimes, it is very, -very- fun.
#Soon
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Rendering planets viable since 2017
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Post by Serza on Dec 13, 2018 22:38:25 GMT
I'm mostly baffled by the people who say: - "Colour, gender, orientation shouldn't be a factor in whether you like a game or not!" as an argument in support of not having POC, well-written women who are not just there as eye candy, or LGBT+ representation in games. Can they not see how hypocritical that statement is? - "I use games to escape the real world, which sucks!" So do we all, my friend, so do we all. And by "we," I mean people who are not straight, white, and male as well as those who are. As John Epler stated in one of his replies, inclusion of certain groups does not mean exclusion of others.
I just can't help but wonder why is this so important to spend hours on end discussing it.
People in real life happen to be a wide variety of races. They also happen to have a fairly wide spectrum of what they like doing (or not doing, let's face it) in the bedroom.
Characters should be the way they work best. Creating characters just to meet quota is stupid. If you can't make a believable character of that particular combination of whatever, maybe you shouldn't force it in the story. People bitching about representation is... I dunno, how 'bout no characters right there and then just happen to be whatever you are?
It's shit, and it's causing at least me (and I imagine I wouldn't be alone) to think of things differently than I would say two years ago.
Stupid agendas do not fight bigots. They create them.
End of rant.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Dec 13, 2018 22:55:44 GMT
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Post by Serza on Dec 13, 2018 22:58:25 GMT
Hey, that needed to go out for a while now.
I'm expecting a warning point or five in the foreseeable future. (I'm probably kidding. I think.)
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Dec 13, 2018 22:58:47 GMT
==============================================
John Epler @eplerjcThis job is always fun. Sometimes, it is very, -very- fun.
They must be writting Solas stabing someone on the back.
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