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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 15:21:48 GMT
I understand that when you're excited about a game, you want to pre-order. You want to nab a deluxe edition, get the extra collectibles, and so on and so forth. I know for some of you - it's worth it. But I wonder... for the majority of your average players... is it really worth it? There's no "sorry the game is sold out" if you go to Gamestop/EB Games. That's a thing of the past. And often times the little extras and collectibles are just throw away junk to an average player. Like, "Oh neat - special armour..." but you find better gear within hours of gameplay. That sort of thing. I made the mistake of pre-ordering Dragon Age: Inquisition, paying more than the original price for the little extras. I'm a big fan of the series. I'm a big fan of BioWare's work, in general. But over the last few years... my enthusiasm has waned. When I bought DA:I, I made the mistake of buying the 360 version. It was so bad that I immediately returned it, switching it out for a PS4 version, and promptly buying a PS4 console to go with it. (They allowed this switch because I had not downloaded any of the content or used the codes.) Now, after I switched to PS4, all was good as far as good graphics. But there were a lot of other issues. My male elf looked like he had broken arms and his body was so skinny it looked laughable. This was only apparent as he walked around Skyhold, in that super unattractive pajama-wear they forced on everyone. Some PC users modded the PJ's to look a little better, but the tragic emaciated body/broken arms on the male elf remained. And that issue was the tip of the iceburg. There were so many other problems with the game. Looking back, BioWare didn't fully patch Dragon Age: Inquisition until..... the 11th patch on October 5th, 2015. Roughly a month or so shy of the 1 year anniversary of the game's release. It took one year for them to distribute 11 patches. I am unaware of how many GB all those patches totaled up to. I am curious to know if anyone is willing to calculate them. I want to say that at least *one* of those patches was something like 4 GB, but please correct me if my memory has failed me. To this day, when I'm browsing a Gamestop, I pick up used, discounted copies of Game of the Year Editions of Dragon Age: Inquisition and sigh at the price. I've seen it as low as 14 dollars. And that version of the game comes with Dragon Age: Inquisition game, Jaws of Hakkon, The Descent, Trespasser, Deluxe Upgrades, Spoils of the Avvar, and Spoils of the Qunari. Not to mention it comes with all 11 patches at once. Hence, you get the bug fixes, the better stability, you can wear your armour around Skyhold, you get the much coveted storage chest, your craft items lost their weight, you can change your appearance again and again, and so much more. So... should Dragon Age: Inquisition have been delayed until October 2015, or perhaps even a bit later? Yes. Would it have been hard to wait a little longer? Sure. Pre-ordering... it just doesn't make sense to pay 70+ dollars for something that pales in comparison to the used, bargain bin version you can nab for 15 bucks years down the road. Yet we fall for it again and again. I didn't fall for it with Andromeda this time. I am very thankful for that early access stuff. That was the right move (for the fans) on BioWare's part. I watched a lot of videos of gameplay and communicated questions to a variety of fans who tested out ME:A. I was able to reach the conclusion that I will be skipping not only a pre-order of ME:A but a day 1 purchase as well. My hope is that the game is stabilized in about 6 months but that's a lofty goal. I give it a little under a year - or maybe even a full year. I'm excited to play Andromeda, based on the positive things I hear. But I want to play it unbroken the first time around. I don't want to have a shitty time during my first playthrough, and later feel pressured to replay it when it's "improved" - all the while replaying with a bitter taste in my mouth, figuratively speaking. If more people stopped pre-ordering and waited out the patching process, maybe these companies will feel the brunt of it in their pocketbooks. I'm not really sure how else to get a message across that fans are only interested in a finished product. Money talks. Anyway, if you disagree with me or you feel offended in some way by my opinion on the matter... ah well. This is just how I see it.
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Post by NUM13ER on Mar 21, 2017 15:30:10 GMT
That's always been the rub pre-ordering and buying out the gate. There are games I wait until the "complete edition" is released or I just rent through a service I use. But for the patient gamer, a few years down the line you will always reap the rewards.
I despise the notion that a lot of companies feel it's okay to release a game that requires patches to reach a level of polish that should have been present in the original game, so I agree that's unacceptable. Patches shouldn't be a crutch but a means of supporting loyal customers after launch.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 21, 2017 15:38:22 GMT
Pre-ordering... it just doesn't make sense to pay 70+ dollars for something that pales in comparison to the used, bargain bin version you can nab for 15 bucks years down the road. Yet we fall for it again and again. One of these people again. You're aware, I assume, that this argument applies to literally everything for which there is a time preference, right? Why buy today's computer hardware when you can get that same power for pennies in a few years? Why go out to watch this movie now when it's just a decade until the complete series box set? I have preordered every BioWare game since Jade Empire (with the exception of ME1 because I didn't have an Xbox 360). Haven't regretted a single one yet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 15:42:42 GMT
Pre-ordering... it just doesn't make sense to pay 70+ dollars for something that pales in comparison to the used, bargain bin version you can nab for 15 bucks years down the road. Yet we fall for it again and again. One of these people again. You're aware, I assume, that this argument applies to literally everything for which there is a time preference, right? Why buy today's computer hardware when you can get that same power for pennies in a few years? Why go out to watch this movie now when it's just a decade until the complete series box set? I have preordered every BioWare game since Jade Empire (with the exception of ME1 because I didn't have an Xbox 360). Haven't regretted a single one yet. I'm not sure about those comparisons. I would not pay full price for a movie that wasn't completely finished, nor would I pay full price for a computer that was missing crucial parts/software. Also, I can't see those companies staying in business if their product was unfinished and/or broken. With video games, it is entirely possible to buy the unfinished product. If I went to the cinema and saw a film that had scenes with green screen, wires, and a lack of sound effects... I'd be demanding my money back.
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Post by Thalandor on Mar 21, 2017 15:45:25 GMT
I agree. In fact, after pre-ordering Dragon Age 2, I told myself: never again!. But then for ME3, on day 1 I had regrets so I ran to the nearest store and bought it. Then the ending happened and I learned my lesson. I didn't buy any DLC and did not buy DA:I until 2 years laters when I got the GOTY edition on a sale for like $20. It was a sad game with bad gameplay and story. A couple good characters like Dorian and Bull, but that's it.
Now for ME:A, I thought I would give Bioware yet another chance. So I pre-ordered the deluxe because I wanted all the gizmos. The result is I'm getting a game that is in an unfinished state and full of bad design. And on top of that they lied about things like meaningful side quests. Whatever, I'll gonna stick to my guns and not cancel the pre-order, but this was the last chance I gave Bioware and they blew it.
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Post by shechinah on Mar 21, 2017 15:46:27 GMT
If I may add this perspective, a lot of people who pre-preorder are also people who buy the game on launch day because they want to play it on launch day. They know they'll be playing the game on launch so they see no reason not to collect some bonus content. The bonus content is not their sole motivation for it: the game itself is their primary motivation for playing on launch.
It's the same with why a lot of people don't wait for the Game of the Year edition and other complete editions: they don't want to wait. This is not exclusive to the younger generations: it's older generations as well. Cinema tickets are expensive where I live and costs more than DVDs: people could wait for the DVD and save money but many don't. They want to watch the movie in theaters. People could wait for a sale on a new book title or for a price drop but many don't because they want to read the book when it comes out.
It's not necessarily a decision they make without keeping track of pre-release material either: video gamers, movie goers and book readers sometimes keep track of information sources like trials, trailers or excerpts. A lot of people who pre-order movies, theater tickets and books simply cancel their orders if they see something that makes them question their interests. Some people prefer to be as blind as possible to pre-release information because they want to experience the video game, movie or book without an pre-impressions or spoilers.
There are two reasons I buy Bioware titles on launch. One, I want to play the game at launch and two, my history with Bioware titles has shown me that the odds of me not enjoying a title of theirs is very low.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 21, 2017 15:49:53 GMT
I will never understand people who preorder games in this age of digital gaming. The only time I would understand preorder is if you're buying special edition that really has unique and worthy stuff or you're supporting developer (kickstarter for example) and basically help them to make the game. You can buy and download the game on release date if it turn out it's worth the money. How many other things in life do you fully pay weeks in advance?
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Post by Eterna on Mar 21, 2017 15:55:07 GMT
I will never understand people who preorder games in this age of digital gaming. The only time I would understand preorder is if you're buying special edition that really has unique and worthy stuff or you're supporting developer (kickstarter for example) and basically help them to make the game. You can buy and download the game on release date if it turn out it's worth the money. How many other things in life do you fully pay weeks in advance? I like to have a physical copy of my games and never download digitally unless I have too.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 21, 2017 15:57:02 GMT
Impatience, preorder bonuses and the fact that I'm guaranteed to play anyway compel me to preorder these games. I mean, I sure as heck don't want to wait weeks or months to read some shit on the internet about the game when I could just dive in myself.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 21, 2017 16:00:47 GMT
... Pre-ordering... it just doesn't make sense to pay 70+ dollars for something that pales in comparison to the used, bargain bin version you can nab for 15 bucks years down the road. Yet we fall for it again and again. ... Naturally, a game should be properly finished. Your point is logical if you are happy to wait. I'd make the observation that unless enough people pay at the 70+ dollars level, the game isn't going to get made at all.
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Post by fenris on Mar 21, 2017 16:04:17 GMT
The issue with your post is that you assume there is a "problem". Which problem is that? And what is not pre-ordering a game supposed to solve?
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Mar 21, 2017 16:04:40 GMT
Impatience, preorder bonuses and the fact that I'm guaranteed to play anyway compel me to preorder these games. I mean, I sure as heck don't want to wait weeks or months to read some shit on the internet about the game when I could just dive in myself. Plus when there is a decent return policy in place so that you can return the game and get a refund. This whole don't pre-order jazz is just noise. It might mean something if you couldn't return the game. Just hipster gamer noise.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 21, 2017 16:06:06 GMT
I will never understand people who preorder games in this age of digital gaming. The only time I would understand preorder is if you're buying special edition that really has unique and worthy stuff or you're supporting developer (kickstarter for example) and basically help them to make the game. You can buy and download the game on release date if it turn out it's worth the money. How many other things in life do you fully pay weeks in advance?What world do you live in? You don't usually get charged for preorders until the moment it's shipped and can cancel at any time in between.
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Post by shechinah on Mar 21, 2017 16:07:34 GMT
If I went to the cinema and saw a film that had scenes with green screen, wires, and a lack of sound effects... I'd be demanding my money back. Oh, what if you saw a film where the special effects were less than stellar, the setting appeared unintentionally artificial and the plot felt rushed? Those are also signs, at times, of an unfinished product. Would you demand your money back then? In general, there seems to be more editing errors or other technical oversights in films than most people notice. I once knew someone who could not sit through Titanic for this very reason.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Mar 21, 2017 16:15:42 GMT
One of these people again. You're aware, I assume, that this argument applies to literally everything for which there is a time preference, right? Why buy today's computer hardware when you can get that same power for pennies in a few years? Why go out to watch this movie now when it's just a decade until the complete series box set? I have preordered every BioWare game since Jade Empire (with the exception of ME1 because I didn't have an Xbox 360). Haven't regretted a single one yet. There's a difference between pre-ordering and buying on launch day. You should do neither if you don't trust the game/developers, but pre-ordering is so much worse. You keep pre-ordering from people who screw up, it gives them carte blance to continue screwing up, as opposed to incentives to get better. Smart thing is always to make informed purchases. And if you can wait a bit and get a deal, by all means do so.
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Post by shechinah on Mar 21, 2017 16:25:45 GMT
There's a difference between pre-ordering and buying on launch day. You should do neither if you don't trust the game/developers, but pre-ordering is so much worse. You keep pre-ordering from people who screw up, it gives them carte blance to continue screwing up, as opposed to incentives to get better. Smart thing is always to make informed purchases. And if you can wait a bit and get a deal, by all means do so. This seems to assume that a person would keep preordering from a company where they repeatedly find products to be less than satisfactory. I have a friend who tends to preorder and buys game on release: she's not planning on preordering the next Dragon Age game because she wasn't fond of Dragon Age: Inquisition. If Mass Effect: Andromeda is similarly not to her taste, she will extend that to that series as well and possibly to future Bioware titles such as the mystery IP. There is a consequence to game companies putting out titles of questionable quality: some people who previously preordered and bought on release will not do so. As far as I know, the game company or the publisher don't recieve any money from the preordering itself. I don't see the difference between buying on release and preordering in that regard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 16:29:09 GMT
I only pre-order stuff because they keep adding extra 'exclusive' things that gets to my completionist nature. Nintendo are right bastards for this, with all the special stuff they put in their pre-orders. Makes it hard for me to say no even though I know I should wait and see first.
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Post by Eterna on Mar 21, 2017 16:35:32 GMT
I pre order games I know I'm most likely going to enjoy for the sole reason that I only have one game store in my town and if I don't pre order it I will have to wait for a week or so after release to get a physical copy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 16:36:05 GMT
It's as simple for me as that. I want to play it on day 1, I'd preorder. If I don't, I will wait a year. Or ten. I've bought all Mass Effect and dragon Age games in 2016-2017. I pre-ordered Andromeda. I've bought Witcher games in... never. I own a gaming rig, not a single console crossed the threshold of my house! I am sure that spells nadir for the entire gaming industry!!! I am evil, I tell ya, VILE!
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Post by jpcab on Mar 21, 2017 16:37:23 GMT
Blame bioware for making one of the best games i ever played. ..ME trilogy. Not me..or us for that matter
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 21, 2017 16:47:51 GMT
I will never understand people who preorder games in this age of digital gaming. The only time I would understand preorder is if you're buying special edition that really has unique and worthy stuff or you're supporting developer (kickstarter for example) and basically help them to make the game. You can buy and download the game on release date if it turn out it's worth the money. How many other things in life do you fully pay weeks in advance?What world do you live in? You don't usually get charged for preorders until the moment it's shipped and can cancel at any time in between. Yeah, you can tell I haven't preordered a game in my life. Doesn't change my point of view and the fact that it absolutely doesn't make sense to preorder a game. You don't help a developer by promising them money 2 weeks before release. It's not like they well go: "Oh look more money, let's put more content in game quickly." You just hurt yourself, because they see how many people are ready to blindly buying the game, so they can abuse this trust, which we have seen quite a lot in past 5 years for example.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 21, 2017 16:50:40 GMT
To this day, when I'm browsing a Gamestop, I pick up used, discounted copies of Game of the Year Editions of Dragon Age: Inquisition and sigh at the price. I've seen it as low as 14 dollars. And that version of the game comes with Dragon Age: Inquisition game, Jaws of Hakkon, The Descent, Trespasser, Deluxe Upgrades, Spoils of the Avvar, and Spoils of the Qunari. Not to mention it comes with all 11 patches at once. Hence, you get the bug fixes, the better stability, you can wear your armour around Skyhold, you get the much coveted storage chest, your craft items lost their weight, you can change your appearance again and again, and so much more. So... should Dragon Age: Inquisition have been delayed until October 2015, or perhaps even a bit later? Yes. Would it have been hard to wait a little longer? Sure. Don't forget that an 11-month delay in booking the revenue would certainly mean a budget cut for the game.. Game development is a large capital expenditure. Delaying the revenue from that expenditure is the same thing as taking out an 11-month loan at whatever EA's cost of capital is.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 21, 2017 16:53:14 GMT
I will never understand people who preorder games in this age of digital gaming. The only time I would understand preorder is if you're buying special edition that really has unique and worthy stuff or you're supporting developer (kickstarter for example) and basically help them to make the game. You can buy and download the game on release date if it turn out it's worth the money. How many other things in life do you fully pay weeks in advance? I like to have a physical copy of my games and never download digitally unless I have too. Yeah, you are aware that shops that sell these things exist, right?
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Post by CrutchCricket on Mar 21, 2017 17:03:18 GMT
There is a consequence to game companies putting out titles of questionable quality: some people who previously preordered and bought on release will not do so. You wouldn't know it from reading these forums though. inb4 forums are a minority. Also it's not where the money goes that's the difference, it's the statistics. Having a shitton of preorders assures a company they're doing good things (even when they aren't).
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Post by Raga on Mar 21, 2017 17:03:38 GMT
I pre-order mostly because Amazon offers free release day delivery, and I can't be assed to go pick up a physical copy at a store somewhere.
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