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Post by mordrek on Mar 22, 2017 20:28:43 GMT
Yep, if you have an artistic schooling in drawing faces you can easily see the artists did some modification to Sara Ryders face. At a glance, the chin was widened and made more prominent, the cheekbones were pushed out, her brow ridge was made more pronounced... those are all masculine traits. They also enlarged her mouth, eyes, and dear god the eyes, they pushed them out for some reason I will never understand...it's like she graves disease. All in all though, it's intentional. You could take a comparison of the Scott Ryder and see that his very close, minus the eyes.
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May 10, 2017 22:11:35 GMT
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warbaby2
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December 2016
warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 22, 2017 20:30:03 GMT
Yep, if you have an artistic schooling in drawing faces you can easily see the artists did some modification to Sara Ryders face. At a glance, the chin was widened and made more prominent, the cheekbones were pushed out, her brow ridge was made more pronounced... those are all masculine traits. They also enlarged her mouth, eyes, and dear god the eyes, they pushed them out for some reason I will never understand...it's like she graves disease. All in all though, it's intentional. You could take a comparison of the Scott Ryder and see that his very close, minus the eyes. Exactly, thank you! I had portrait drawing classes 20 years ago or so, and I just knew that this couldn't just be "badly done".
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Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
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shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Mar 22, 2017 20:31:01 GMT
I don't have a problem with women looking realistic in games but as someone already pointed out, it might just be an issue with artistic talent or art direction for this game. I saw this floating around and it proves a point. Sara can look "normal" without looking...well everyone has an opinion. ![](https://cdn.shazoo.ru/190020_WJEpLiWfjR_tumblr_olbbcvi6wm1sn2dtbo1_1280.jpg) Now here's where I am a little bit... let's say confused. Probably nothing can save the animation anymore, but I wouldn't mind a change like this: ![](https://cdn.animebytes.tv/i/nEdorZiX7n0cKGl1j-6sdRPBeAo/aHR0cDovL2ltYWdlLnBybnRzY3IuY29tL2ltYWdlLzNmMWUyZjg4YmY3ODQ5OTVhODk1ZjMxMmZmZTU4YjdkLnBuZw) Is it source filmmaker or photoshop? I know these kinds of things are floating around the 'net but I don't suppose you know which site you have it from? Because I'm not so sure that was made in source filmmaker and I'd rather like to see if I'm right because I have a feeling I'll be seeing that around more than a few times in the future.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:36:01 GMT
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dalinne
Vanguard of your destruction
1,724
August 2016
dalinne
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Post by dalinne on Mar 22, 2017 20:33:23 GMT
I thought this was a Sara's trailer thread ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/BBCpsoiIHmyzmblpikow.png)
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Sept 22, 2020 10:22:01 GMT
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surelyforth
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August 2016
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Post by surelyforth on Mar 22, 2017 20:53:09 GMT
In that sense I think it adds up but I do often find displeasure in how BioWare is so focused on not treading on toes that they almost always seem to place black guys next to white guys and then an indian and then less-ideal women next to ideal women or beautiful man-hunks next to the creepiest motherfucker you'd ever seen. It's too diverse to the point where it looses my immersion. Even if the world gets more globalized and we normalize better manners across race and sex in the future, I just don't believe it will work 100% of the time and too rarely do we ever see cliques of stereotypes or "girl's club" or anything resembling what cliques usually are: A socially reserved group of friends that only stick together based on a certain way they relate to each other. I still often see the smartest, prettiest girls hanging out in the top-popular groups. It happens all they way through youths and I believe my friend's mom who is a teacher (50 years old) also has a girl's club clique at her workplace that go to parties together - it's just how it works.I just hate social justice when it comes to the point that it violates what is true to humanity, and cliques will not stop. I believe it's part of our psychology to be that way. Sorry for getting this deep btw.
Your obsession with "social justice", man. Like, you do realize that they people working on the Nexus aren't ~a clique~, right? That they're professionals in a professional environment? And that if they kept everyone relegated to spaces where it was all one race/gender/species that it would look even more ridiculous than letting them intermingle like normal people do? I live in Southern Indiana. It is not a terribly diverse place. However, I also live near a college town. In my immediate neck of the woods, people are mostly white, mostly Christian, and mostly straight. But if you drive ten minutes, you can find almost every permutation of human being you could possibly imagine. In less than four square miles of the rural Midwest. And while there are definitely homogenous pockets, those are the exception and largely unheard of in spaces where people are working and collaborating with one another...kind of like they are on the Nexus, Hyperion and Tempest. You're not being deep when you make posts like this, you're basically coming at it from a point of personal bias because you can't wrap your head around the fact that plain women, and powerful women, and minorities aren't just some sort of SJW fever dream or something that is only ever included as cookie-seeking tokenism, but as a reality that a lot of people live. As it is, you're basically taking BW to task for breaking your immersion by not committing to your exact worldview instead of stopping to think that maybe, just maybe, what you would find familiar and pleasing-to-the-census-taker-in-your-head would break the immersion of not only the devs themselves, but a significant number of players who aren't you.
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Realguile
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Colguile
PSN: Realguile
Posts: 46 Likes: 76
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Realguile
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Mar 13, 2017 17:06:51 GMT
March 2017
colguile
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Colguile
Realguile
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Post by Realguile on Mar 22, 2017 20:57:49 GMT
I don't have a problem with women looking realistic in games but as someone already pointed out, it might just be an issue with artistic talent or art direction for this game. I saw this floating around and it proves a point. Sara can look "normal" without looking...well everyone has an opinion. ![](https://cdn.shazoo.ru/190020_WJEpLiWfjR_tumblr_olbbcvi6wm1sn2dtbo1_1280.jpg) I still don't buy it, that has to be deliberate - I mean, the rough, unclean skin, the bulging eyes, exaggerated nose and lips... not even the shape of the face is right. Nobody can be that blind. You'd be surprised.
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Raga
N3
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 324 Likes: 622
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0
622
Raga
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Dec 27, 2016 14:16:12 GMT
December 2016
ontarah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Mar 22, 2017 21:02:20 GMT
The thing that makes it hard for me to take "they made her look fat on purpose!" line of logic seriously is I remember people saying that Miranda's face was also puffy and fat compared to her face model. Miranda. She of the bathroom tile catsuit and galactic backside.
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Post by mrfixit on Mar 22, 2017 21:05:35 GMT
Will people stop posting that "improved" Sara version all over the forums? I know a person that is eerily similar to her and I hate her guts. If Sara looked like that, I'd destroy my monitor with extreme prejudice.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
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Jun 26, 2024 16:32:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 21:10:02 GMT
I only have one problem with this argument and it is best described with two words:- DOUBLE STANDARDS. Here's what I mean. 1) Okay, so the argument being put forth is that we want to make people "real". So why is that only the women are the ones that are made to look "realistic" ? What about the men ? Isn't this a form of male objectification - Which is still a form of objectification. If I recall correctly, people who make the "realistic people" or the "normal women" argument are very much against objectification. 2) The second is that you see the "real" or the "normal" argument applied towards female appearance but when the exact same argument is used to explain away something else on the basis of "normalcy" or "realism", its wrong and pejorative buzzwords get thrown. For example, Mass Effect Andromeda has a high number of heterosexual love interest over homosexual lover interest (as well more content). Now if I explain this away by saying that this is justifiable because there's a lot more heterosexuals than they are homosexual or people of other sexualities, that this is in fact, "normal" and realistic, the standard trove of pejorative buzzwords like homophobic, transphobic, etc would get thrown around. Similarly, it is the norm for men to occupy most of the higher up positions as well as the bottom down position in any organizations due to a number of factors - That's "normal". However, if I were to bring the overwhelming number of women in higher up position in Mass Effect Andromeda and say that this is not "normal" or "realistic", once again, pejorative buzzwords like misogynist would be thrown out. To be frank, I could care less about "normalcy" and "realism" in fantasy video games - I fully support having sexy men, sexy women, boob armor, topless armor, navel & midriff exposing armor, large swords, tastefully saucy sex scenes, etc. For one, that's one of the core purpose of video games - Escapism. There's also the fact that this is essentially a first world problem. Additionally, no matter how hard someone tries to push some form of viewpoint or agenda through fiction, reality always finds a way to bitchslap it right back. Just look at religion - The religious have tried the damnedest to push their world view via fiction for the longest time and yet, the universe remains indifferent to their efforts and there are still nonreligious people. Having said that, I do care about consistency. If you want to apply the "normal" or "real" argument, then the argument should apply to every aspect of the game, not just one aspect of the game - In this case, just female appearance. You can't have your cake and eat it too and expect people to look at that and go: "Yeah, that totally makes sense and you are a logically consistent person." Speaking of double standards... I don't suppose it's ever occurred to you that your personal desires in fantasy world escapism might conflict with what others would like to see in theirs...?
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Post by surelyforth on Mar 22, 2017 21:18:17 GMT
I don't have a problem with women looking realistic in games but as someone already pointed out, it might just be an issue with artistic talent or art direction for this game. I saw this floating around and it proves a point. Sara can look "normal" without looking...well everyone has an opinion. ![](https://cdn.shazoo.ru/190020_WJEpLiWfjR_tumblr_olbbcvi6wm1sn2dtbo1_1280.jpg) This is completely disingenuous for two reasons. 1. That is an older version of Sara and it's at a ridiculous focal point that makes her features seem distorted compared to the picture of her model (and in general- most people aren't experienced straight on the nose like that, especially not in that terrible lighting) 2. The last image is just that, an image. It's not a 3D model that has to be animated by a rig that also has to work for a wide variety of facial morphs. Also, part of the issue with some faces seeming "fatter" than they need to be is because of how tricky it is to convey softer facial features via CGI. Miranda is a good example- Yvonne has high cheekbones with distinctive padding. It looks good IRL because it moves naturally and you get a sense of her underlying facial structure. As a 3d model, however, you get a much less forgiving shape and no sense of the structure beneath.
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May 10, 2017 22:11:35 GMT
1,212
warbaby2
1,418
December 2016
warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 22, 2017 23:15:45 GMT
I don't have a problem with women looking realistic in games but as someone already pointed out, it might just be an issue with artistic talent or art direction for this game. I saw this floating around and it proves a point. Sara can look "normal" without looking...well everyone has an opinion. ![](https://cdn.shazoo.ru/190020_WJEpLiWfjR_tumblr_olbbcvi6wm1sn2dtbo1_1280.jpg) This is completely disingenuous for two reasons. 1. That is an older version of Sara and it's at a ridiculous focal point that makes her features seem distorted compared to the picture of her model (and in general- most people aren't experienced straight on the nose like that, especially not in that terrible lighting) 2. The last image is just that, an image. It's not a 3D model that has to be animated by a rig that also has to work for a wide variety of facial morphs. Also, part of the issue with some faces seeming "fatter" than they need to be is because of how tricky it is to convey softer facial features via CGI. Miranda is a good example- Yvonne has high cheekbones with distinctive padding. It looks good IRL because it moves naturally and you get a sense of her underlying facial structure. As a 3d model, however, you get a much less forgiving shape and no sense of the structure beneath. True, but aside the fact that the tech to simulate sub skin movement already exists (see video below), you usually work around that by making certain elements of the face leaner... but here they did the opposite. They blew up the parts of the face that get distorted the most while animating even more... that's where the fish/frog mouth comes from. Also, all that doesn't explain the bad skin textures...
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Innocuous Alaskan
417
0
4,799
Trilobite Derby
Drinking rosehip tea, independently.
1,824
August 2016
akhadeed
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Mar 23, 2017 0:53:04 GMT
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4,329
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MiNd...ExPaNsIoN....
1,827
August 2016
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Blackgas7
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Post by clips7 on Mar 23, 2017 2:40:13 GMT
It's either the engine or the artists and from what i hear AND while i have not played Dragon Age (I), that game is has the frostbite engine running it as well correct?....those characters in that game animate fairly well and look decent. If that is the case then this is an issue with the artists/animators...From what I understand the team that worked on the trilogy are working on that new IP,.....which maybe they should have let worked on Andromeda (just talking in terms of the art direction/facial quality designs).
A bit puzzling since i'm sure this team should being sharing assets and techniques associated with working with the engine....maybe EA pushed Bioware to release this thing to meet their performance goals in terms of their stock/shareholder expectations. Clearly Sara looks nothing like her model...even scanned tech from years ago still managed to craft face scans better than what was implemented here.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:19:04 GMT
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Post by mordrek on Mar 23, 2017 2:40:31 GMT
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
0
5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Mar 23, 2017 3:58:28 GMT
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MiNd...ExPaNsIoN....
1,827
August 2016
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Post by clips7 on Mar 23, 2017 4:46:41 GMT
Looks can be deceiving,....from what i've seen of Cora, she can give Miranda some "stiff" competition.... ![:devil:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/vm0LdmaZNliQuiOl0pxw.png) ........*Badumm Pshhh*.....i'm here all week folks!....
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Jul 24, 2017 13:18:50 GMT
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183
January 2017
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Post by vyndral on Mar 23, 2017 5:50:37 GMT
All I know is when Vetra and I hook up, the first present I am going to buy her will be a nice set of knockers. My poor alien Chick is a giant. She deserves giant assets!
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House Targaryen
N5
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,216
inherit
621
0
10,216
House Targaryen
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
4,535
August 2016
thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
gscott7833
1,584
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Post by House Targaryen on Mar 23, 2017 6:29:17 GMT
![](https://mortarandpistol.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/jc2.png) Ubisoft is that way. We don't serve your kind here. P.S. This was mean as a rant at all the people claiming that Bioware's women have gotten to "odd" lately. The first trio of female love-interest included a domineering older woman and a dominatrix. If you like the girl next door type, Bioware has never been the developer for you. Well they have the submissive Aerie who knows her place in the food chain. Go make some sandwiches, Aerie.
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May 10, 2017 22:11:35 GMT
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1,418
December 2016
warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 23, 2017 9:32:14 GMT
![](https://mortarandpistol.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/jc2.png) Ubisoft is that way. We don't serve your kind here. P.S. This was mean as a rant at all the people claiming that Bioware's women have gotten to "odd" lately. The first trio of female love-interest included a domineering older woman and a dominatrix. If you like the girl next door type, Bioware has never been the developer for you. Well they have the submissive Aerie who knows her place in the food chain. Go make some sandwiches, Aerie. ...and there she goes again crying. I swear, Aerie, or as I used to call her: The first post coitus freak out in games history.... so frustrating. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png)
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Warrick
454
August 2016
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Post by Warrick on Mar 23, 2017 10:13:06 GMT
I don't have a problem with women looking realistic in games but as someone already pointed out, it might just be an issue with artistic talent or art direction for this game. I saw this floating around and it proves a point. Sara can look "normal" without looking...well everyone has an opinion. *snip* I still don't buy it, that has to be deliberate - I mean, the rough, unclean skin, the bulging eyes, exaggerated nose and lips... not even the shape of the face is right. Nobody can be that blind. Have you never seen a woman without makeup and without photoshop airbrushing and blowing up the colors? Google celebrities without makeup. Besides the FOV in the first picture is bad because she's looking into the camera. This is why people set FOV to 24 when they take screenshots of their Shepards and dragonborns. Open Skyrim, take a close-up of your dude at FOV 75 (default) and then another at FOV 24, see the difference. Finally, what the hell, she doesn't even look like that anymore, why are you even posting it still?
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Liara
N1
Posts: 30 Likes: 19
inherit
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kuat
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Post by Liara on Mar 24, 2017 10:56:27 GMT
God dam liberals, feminists and SJW assholes.
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0
13,409
Pearl
optics cuck
3,898
August 2016
pearl
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
FatherOfPearl
FatherOfPearl
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3,002
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Post by Pearl on Mar 24, 2017 10:57:08 GMT
u rite
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xianese
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 40 Likes: 55
inherit
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0
55
xianese
40
March 2017
xianese
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by xianese on Mar 24, 2017 10:58:00 GMT
Erm. What? Have you seen Cora's butt?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2073
0
Jun 26, 2024 16:32:45 GMT
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0
Jun 26, 2024 16:32:45 GMT
January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 11:01:35 GMT
Listen from 16:35The animator in the podcast nicely sums up why this idea is full on tinfoil hat crazy. Besides, Cora is far from being ugly regardless of whether or not she's your cup of tea. She sort of looks like the early concept art for Miranda Lawson, so it's fairly clear they were aiming for an attractive companion even if you didn't like the outcome.
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Liara
N1
Posts: 30 Likes: 19
inherit
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0
Mar 29, 2017 20:59:07 GMT
19
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30
October 2016
kuat
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Post by Liara on Mar 24, 2017 11:03:22 GMT
Listen from 16:35The animator in the podcast nicely sums up why this idea is full on tinfoil hat crazy. Yet the facts remain. MEA females are repulsive.
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