Mobius Y
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The Legend Continues
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Post by Mobius Y on Mar 26, 2017 6:38:34 GMT
After catching a couple of Xcal's streams, it seemed to me that many of the guns in MEA are seriously ill-balanced. So, out of curiosity, I took the gun stats from this page docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tlfLwF9vzcGevPaK4kic7-QZX1vcfvMyJWfeIkVNnDU/pubhtml and calculated a 'quick and dirty' 1 Clip DPS using the following formula: Bullet Damage * (ROF / 60) Other than the Crusader and Dhan, I didn't do shotguns (+Talon) as I don't know the # of pellets fired. Other Unknowns:Bonus Damage vs Defenses Headshot Multiplier Armor Damage Reduction Ramp Up Timings Hipfire Penalty (if any)
| Bullet Damage
| ROF
| DPS
| Avenger
| 47
| 525
| 411.3
| Cyclone
| 47
| 675
| 528.8
| Mattock
| 89
| 450
| 667.5
| Zalkin
| 76
| 475
| 601.8
| Halberd
| 92
| 300
| 460.0
| Falcon
| 462
| 90
| 693.0 (AoE?)
| Revenant
| 74
| 620
| 764.7
| Sandstorm
| 134
| 210
| 469.0
| Sweeper
| 72
| 450
| 540.0
| Thokin
| 76
| 750
| 950.0
| Valkyrie
| 93
| 500
| 775.0
| PAW
| 40
| 600
| 400.0
| Soned
| 59
| 850
| 835.8
|
|
|
|
| Charger
| 48
| 650
| 520.0
| Predator
| 60
| 500
| 500.0
| Carnifex
| 195
| 100
| 325.0
| Phalynx
| 133
| 260
| 573.3
| Equalizer
| 68
| 600
| 680.0
| Hornet
| 44
| 950
| 696.7
| Scorpion
| 502
| 80
| 669.3 (AoE?)
| Sidewinder
| 180
| 380
| 1140.0
| Eagle
| 80
| 450
| 600.0
| Hurduricane
| 57
| 925
| 878.8
| Rozerad
| 56
| 225
| 210 (Ramp Up?)
|
|
|
|
| Crusader
| 442
| 80
| 589.3
| Dhan
| 688
| 95
| 1089.3
|
|
|
|
| Viper
| 427
| 90
| 640.5
| Incisor
| 181
| 585
| 1764.8
| Raptor
| 126
| 550
| 1155.0
| Lanat
| 911
| 60
| 911.0
| Indra
| 101
| 500
| 841.7
| Shadow
| 32
| 600
| 320.0
| Vanquisher
| 810
| 90
| 1215.0
| Black Widow
| 891
| 65
| 965.25
| Valiant
| 535
| 125
| 1114.6
| Naladen
| 574
| 95
| 908.3 (AoE?)
|
Holy crap! Whoever balanced these guns must be the office 'sniper fanboy'. This game needs a serious 'weekly update' posthaste.
I haven't seen most of these in action, but yes, the Raptor is that good. Enjoy it while you can before its beat to death with the nerf bat.
I thought the damage numbers of shotguns listed in-game are equivalent to the total damage per shot if all pellets hit the target? Could those values be used, or at least give an idea? |
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Post by commandcodes on Mar 26, 2017 6:45:00 GMT
Aye, should be straightforward. Calculating shotgun dps against armor is another matter
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Post by someN7orother on Mar 26, 2017 8:59:55 GMT
Raptor is fun at silver level or below. I like to occasionally rapid spam snipers...I have my whole right hand off the pa4 controller and I'm using my fingers to tap the shoot button as fast as I can against bosses... Raptor is full auto now. No need to give yourself carpal tunnel syndrome or dislocate your shoulder. Enjoy. Incisor would be great if it wasn't because it's impossible to land all three (head)shots due to insane climb. Gimmicky weapon. Assault rifles and shotguns need buffing. Assault rifles especially, considering how dodgy weak point hit detection is. Preferably fix that too. |
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Darks1te
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Post by Darks1te on Mar 26, 2017 9:43:57 GMT
I'm using Raptor X on every kit as secondary weapon. He is that good and pretty lightweight.
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sosseres
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Post by sosseres on Mar 26, 2017 9:53:02 GMT
Something that makes the snipers even better is that you can hit for weak spot shots much easier with them than the high fire rate weapons (depending on your skill). Increasing DPS even further. 4 snipers against outlaw on gold can kill everything but berserkers before it can get to them (most of the time).
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Post by evilfluffmonster on Mar 26, 2017 11:32:51 GMT
Well, getting Thokin AND Sidewinder out of my first pack in multiplayer certainly helped, especially as I also got Angara Insurgent too.
I would also point out that some weapons that recharge their clip could achieve better overall DPS by taking your finger off the trigger occasionally so they dont overheat as fast.The equalizer is really accurate, has a good clip size, and is very viable for head-shotting, you can get great sustained DPS by firing in long bursts.
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Post by nanotm on Mar 26, 2017 12:05:39 GMT
what makes me chuckle is that the charger is better than the avenger weighs less has better accuracy and higher capacity, heck with a soldier build you can even take down a hydra in under 30 seconds on bronze without needing to reload or use equipment ..... try that with the avenger and you just get toasted .....
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Post by Sailears on Mar 26, 2017 13:08:51 GMT
Raptor is damn amazing - gone from pretty much the worst injury inducing thing in ME3 and by far my least favourite weapon to a lightweight powerhouse.
I didn't try it before now due to prejudice, but I prefer it over the Equaliser right now on the human adept.
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Post by ashevajak on Mar 26, 2017 13:15:46 GMT
Holy shit the Carnifex sucks ass now. I mean I suspected it was bad but not that bad. :rage: Yeah, I was surprised when I tried out the Carnifex. The Phalanx, however, appears to have been restored to its former (ME2) glory, at least going by my silver runs with it. |
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SilentFear
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Post by SilentFear on Mar 26, 2017 13:26:38 GMT
Holy shit the Carnifex sucks ass now. I mean I suspected it was bad but not that bad. :rage: Yeah, I was surprised when I tried out the Carnifex. The Phalanx, however, appears to have been restored to its former (ME2) glory, at least going by my silver runs with it. Yeah that broke my hearth.... Carnifex was my go to pistol on every biotic and low cooldown kit in ME3. And whit good aim you could pop heads like no tomorrow. Sadly now its useless even on Bronze. |
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Mobius Y
N3
The Legend Continues
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: Mobius Y
PSN: Mobius_Y
Posts: 878 Likes: 2,129
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Mobius Y on Mar 26, 2017 16:39:13 GMT
Yeah, I was surprised when I tried out the Carnifex. The Phalanx, however, appears to have been restored to its former (ME2) glory, at least going by my silver runs with it. Yeah that broke my hearth.... Carnifex was my go to pistol on every biotic and low cooldown kit in ME3. And whit good aim you could pop heads like no tomorrow. Sadly now its useless even on Bronze. To be fair, once you had a Paladin the Carnifex was obsolete in every way. |
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Mar 26, 2017 16:41:19 GMT
How would one data mine to see the charge rate and pellet count for the guns? Is it all in the game files?
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Post by kotli on Mar 26, 2017 18:01:29 GMT
There's a problem though the DPS in your chart is assuming unlimited clip size. Since no gun has a magazine that larger than its ROF we need to factoring reload time etc.
In any case Raptor in practice for me is worse than a Viper as at lest the Viper 1 hits some mobs that the Raptor needs the full magazine to kill.
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Post by nucleartech76 on Mar 27, 2017 15:19:43 GMT
Rozerad is much better than this suggests. Ramp up pistol that seems to keep ramping up with clip size increased its hitting pretty damn hard. Mine is at level 1 and I don't know if it's that everything else is shit or if it's just that good but it's much better than those numbers suggest.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Mar 27, 2017 15:26:27 GMT
After catching a couple of Xcal's streams, it seemed to me that many of the guns in MEA are seriously ill-balanced. So, out of curiosity, I took the gun stats from this page docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tlfLwF9vzcGevPaK4kic7-QZX1vcfvMyJWfeIkVNnDU/pubhtml and calculated a 'quick and dirty' 1 Clip DPS using the following formula: Bullet Damage * (ROF / 60) Other than the Crusader and Dhan, I didn't do shotguns (+Talon) as I don't know the # of pellets fired. Other Unknowns:Bonus Damage vs Defenses Headshot Multiplier Armor Damage Reduction Ramp Up Timings Hipfire Penalty (if any)
| Bullet Damage
| ROF
| DPS
| Avenger
| 47
| 525
| 411.3
| Cyclone
| 47
| 675
| 528.8
| Mattock
| 89
| 450
| 667.5
| Zalkin
| 76
| 475
| 601.8
| Halberd
| 92
| 300
| 460.0
| Falcon
| 462
| 90
| 693.0 (AoE?)
| Revenant
| 74
| 620
| 764.7
| Sandstorm
| 134
| 210
| 469.0
| Sweeper
| 72
| 450
| 540.0
| Thokin
| 76
| 750
| 950.0
| Valkyrie
| 93
| 500
| 775.0
| PAW
| 40
| 600
| 400.0
| Soned
| 59
| 850
| 835.8
|
|
|
|
| Charger
| 48
| 650
| 520.0
| Predator
| 60
| 500
| 500.0
| Carnifex
| 195
| 100
| 325.0
| Phalynx
| 133
| 260
| 573.3
| Equalizer
| 68
| 600
| 680.0
| Hornet
| 44
| 950
| 696.7
| Scorpion
| 502
| 80
| 669.3 (AoE?)
| Sidewinder
| 180
| 380
| 1140.0
| Eagle
| 80
| 450
| 600.0
| Hurduricane
| 57
| 925
| 878.8
| Rozerad
| 56
| 225
| 210 (Ramp Up?)
|
|
|
|
| Crusader
| 442
| 80
| 589.3
| Dhan
| 688
| 95
| 1089.3
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|
|
|
| Viper
| 427
| 90
| 640.5
| Incisor
| 181
| 585
| 1764.8
| Raptor
| 126
| 550
| 1155.0
| Lanat
| 911
| 60
| 911.0
| Indra
| 101
| 500
| 841.7
| Shadow
| 32
| 600
| 320.0
| Vanquisher
| 810
| 90
| 1215.0
| Black Widow
| 891
| 65
| 965.25
| Valiant
| 535
| 125
| 1114.6
| Naladen
| 574
| 95
| 908.3 (AoE?)
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Holy crap! Whoever balanced these guns must be the office 'sniper fanboy'. This game needs a serious 'weekly update' posthaste.
I haven't seen most of these in action, but yes, the Raptor is that good. Enjoy it while you can before its beat to death with the nerf bat. Great post, OP. Threads and discussions like this were what I liked about the old MP forum. |
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Post by onehitparry on Mar 28, 2017 22:10:37 GMT
Thanks for putting this together. I still don't have many guns, but this helps me at least know what I should be excited about unlocking.
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Dave the Scrub
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Post by Dave the Scrub on Mar 28, 2017 22:28:24 GMT
Something wrong with that Sidewinder number. I have a V, and it does crap damage.
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Post by vacaneon on Mar 28, 2017 23:09:13 GMT
1. Weapon's bullet damage you see varies, it depends on the damage boost the active character can provide via passive.
For example, my incisor III on a lv1 char only deals 152dmg per bullet, that is much lower than the spread sheet.
EDIT: the damage mod also changes the bullet damage value you see.
2. Incisor has a short pause between each triple shot. I measure the time it requires to shoot 18 bullets and it is around 3.6secs.
That means the rof is actually something around 300 instead of 585. And this dramatically decreases its DPS .
EDIT: 18/3.6*60=300 rof， 300/60*181 = 905 DPS
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Post by vacaneon on Mar 28, 2017 23:27:28 GMT
Something wrong with that Sidewinder number. I have a V, and it does crap damage. Too much reloading due to its poor clip size and this dramatically decreases the multiclip DPS. And 380rof means you need to click 380÷60=6.33per sec in order to reach 1140dps. |
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neightrix
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Post by neightrix on Mar 29, 2017 1:26:56 GMT
Not bad info to have and raw DPS does matter, but you also have to account for things like absurd recoil and bullet spread (Valkyrie second shots will almost always miss outside close range and 90% of Revenant shots miss on non-soldiers)
Basically, it looks like the guns were balanced on paper without any meaningful play testing or proper consideration for all factors. Not that "perfect" balance should be the goal, but you need most of the weapons to have a meaningful effect on Gold to keep the game from becoming stale quickly.
EDIT: Forgot to mention burst weapons are gimped even further than what it looks like, since the advertised fire rate is only within the burst.
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Post by SalMasRac on Mar 29, 2017 1:46:27 GMT
This chart, as stated in the OP, is Clip DPS, not Overall DPS.
You have to factor in reload time to arrive at Overall DPS.
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Post by onehitparry on Mar 29, 2017 3:48:00 GMT
Any idea if the game given ROF are even accurate (aside from reloading)? It's possible that BW just made up numbers that looked like good ballpark answers.
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Astronautic
N3
Go left, where nothing is right? Or go right, where nothing is left?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Jade Empire
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Post by Astronautic on Mar 29, 2017 4:30:51 GMT
Yeah, the Raptor, and Incisor are hidden gems.
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zorinho20
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by zorinho20 on Mar 29, 2017 4:49:12 GMT
And wow, I'll have to try the sidewinder next... Vanquisher and Sidewinder are my go to weapons.But,if you are not playing on PC, forget these numbers. |
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SexmaSheen
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Origin: Sexma_Sheen
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Post by SexmaSheen on Mar 31, 2017 21:45:30 GMT
A number of questions have come up regarding the Incisors ability to reach it's calculated DPS due to the fact that its a burst weapon. For the hell of it, I did a quick comparison to the ME3 Incisor -> LinkNote: The Adjusted DPS for the ME3 version includes the min refire stat. Incisor ME3 MEA Bullet Damage 122.5 181 Rate of Fire 450 585 1 Clip DPS 918.8 1764.8 Minimum Refire .15s ??? Adjusted DPS 882 1694.2? When applying min refire to the ME3 version it loses only 4% from it's Bullet Damage / RoF DPS calculation. Assuming it has the same min refire, subtracting 4% from the MEA Incisor brings it to 1694.2. Beyond that, draw your own conclusion. ************************* To clarify the post as a whole, this was not intended to be a be-all end-all weapon database (go bug Cyonan for that)or a determination as to what's the 'best weapon'. It's more of a rough guide to help you answer the question "Is it just me, or is the gun I'm using total ballsack?" By consulting the chart, you can now conclude that, most likely, the answer to that is "Why, yes. Yes it is." Unless you're using the Vanquisher or Raptor, in which case, "It's just you". |
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