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Post by shechinah on Apr 1, 2017 15:02:37 GMT
Didn't they say early on it would be more grey and complex instead of the black and white Paragon/Renegade approach? I really looked forward to that. Yet all I see is a lot of white with barely existent black sprinkled over it.Ironically, they allowed much more grey in the trilogy by giving the option to play a mix of Paragon and Renegade. To me, this is not even about having Paragon or Renegade in the game, or a copy of this system, but about having distinctive character traits for a protagonist and that we can shape him in some way. The choices are too limited here. I disagree but I think I've outlined why in the post I've already made so I'll refrain from elaborating again. Suffice to say, I think the choices are genuinely grey this time around as oppose to being only black or white. In general, I cannot express my relief enough that there is no paragon and renegade system. I feel like I have much more freedom to roleplay my character the way I want and that I now worry about what the consequences my actions might have in the story. Before, I worried what consequences me not selecting enough blue or red decisions might have on my roleplay which was not fun.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 1, 2017 15:21:35 GMT
As far as I'm concerned, a full, true Renegade Shepard playthrough is the just-for-lols playthrough (ditto for playing MaleShep... And a Renegade MaleShep? HYSTERICAL). People who actually think Renegade Shep is a bad ass perplex me. He's clearly the "Let's do a low Int playthrough in Fallout/slutty porn star who totally ignores her people dying playthrough in Fallout 2" joke option. LOL yeah, I can't watch without laughing hysterically but actually playing a Renegade Shep makes me wonder about his sanity. Agreed. Each game the renegade options just get more insane. I love doing it but mostly for the lols.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Apr 1, 2017 15:24:32 GMT
It's the new puritanism at Bioware.
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Post by mastert on Apr 1, 2017 15:37:21 GMT
Didn't they say early on it would be more grey and complex instead of the black and white Paragon/Renegade approach? I really looked forward to that. Yet all I see is a lot of white with barely existent black sprinkled over it.Ironically, they allowed much more grey in the trilogy by giving the option to play a mix of Paragon and Renegade. To me, this is not even about having Paragon or Renegade in the game, or a copy of this system, but about having distinctive character traits for a protagonist and that we can shape him in some way. The choices are too limited here. I disagree but I think I've outlined why in the post I've already made so I'll refrain from elaborating again. Suffice to say, I think the choices are genuinely grey this time around as oppose to being only black or white. In general, I cannot express my relief enough that there is no paragon and renegade system. I feel like I have much more freedom to roleplay my character the way I want and that I now worry about what the consequences my actions might have in the story. Before, I worried what consequences me not selecting enough blue or red decisions might have on my roleplay which was not fun. At least before the dialogue was forced to include positive or negative options for dialogue which had more roleplay than agreeing to someone in 4 different tones. It's hilarious how you people say there's more to roleplay now.
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Post by mordrek on Apr 1, 2017 16:08:02 GMT
Without a doubt coming to Andromeda you should have had a Renegade route. You should have been able to go Conquistador.
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Post by Jacket on Apr 1, 2017 16:09:49 GMT
I don't like how Ryder hits on the girls, he sounds like a sucker. Shepard does it better.
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Post by danishgambit on Apr 1, 2017 16:13:02 GMT
There needs to be a middleground between doormat and renegade and Ryder is no where near that middleground. People treat Ryder like he's a POS and he just takes it. Cora would've manned up and said something a long time ago. But this isn't new to Bioware anyway.
In ME3 it is considered a paragon action to never call out Legion for lying to you THREE TIMES and to just spout some sanctimonious mumbo jumbo that a toaster couldn't care less about. I laughed my ass off when Shepard said that he thought the Geth were BETTER THAN THIS!! I mean I guess he forgot about how the Geth capped Jenkins in ME1 and slaughtered humans and turned them into husks. He also must have forgotten about the attempted genocide of the Quarians. But ok sure Geth are SOOO much better than that... Paragon Shepard is now Ryder folks. He's the epitome of the doormat who won't call people out on their BS because it might make them feel bad. Boo fucking hoo.
Only renegade Shepard will call out Legion for lying to you and that thing has no rebuttal to it either. But this is considered negative. Calling that Quarian admiral out for almost getting your team killed is also considered renegade and I could go on and on. This is nothing new folks. It may just be the first time you've noticed it because now you have no choice but to agree all the time.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 1, 2017 16:29:54 GMT
At least before the dialogue was forced to include positive or negative options for dialogue which had more roleplay than agreeing to someone in 4 different tones. It's hilarious how you people say there's more to roleplay now. I didn't mention anything about any range: I mentioned that because the paragon and renegade system was gone, I no longer felt forced to select specific options that were either paragon and renegade. Example: I can let Ruth Bekker die for the greater good because it fits with my character without having to worry that I won't have enough missions left to select blue choices on and finish filling my morality meter with so I won't get locked out of dialogue.
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 1, 2017 16:36:16 GMT
I have to admit when i came across two robbers still standing over a corpse and the Asari robber called Ryder a bitch and he backed off with no input on my end,was not a happy bunny. Also that mouthy guard in Kadaara needed a slap across the grid!
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 1, 2017 17:04:06 GMT
Reading all those "full renegade shepard blah blah was bad/for luls/makes no sense" posts makes me wonder since when ppl became so square minded. You do realize that you didnt had to always choose either paragon or renegade lines in each and every dialogue, and stick either to red or blue through entire trilogy? You can easily mix and match responses that feels more appropriate for the context. Thats how I played and had an absolute blast, while also never feeling like I am being forcefully locked out of dialogue options in certain situation by para/rene system. By the end of ME1 I had both para and rene bars full, and got grayed out only twice in entire trilogy, and in one case it did not really mattered due to context and what dialogue line I wanted to choose. So all talks about being hard locked out of dialogue options are highly exaggerated and can only happen if player intentionally roleplaying one extreme or the other, but then why are you complaning that your goody two shoes Shepard that has been holier than though through most part of the game suddenly cant behave like a complete sociopath? Its only logical that he doesnt, because you as a player have built his character that way.Actually Ryder has that exact problem - being a good smiling boyscout through like 99% of the game, he sometimes gets an option to act like complete sociopath, which makes him look like someone suffering from acute form of shizophrenia with uncontrolled aggression psychosis spikes.
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Post by fraggle on Apr 1, 2017 17:19:05 GMT
Reading all those "full renegade shepard blah blah was bad/for luls/makes no sense" posts makes me wonder since when ppl became so square minded. You do realize that you didnt had to always choose either paragon or renegade lines in each and every dialogue, and stick either to red or blue through entire trilogy? You can easily mix and match responses that feels more appropriate for the context. Thats how I played and had an absolute blast, while also never feeling like I am being forcefully locked out of dialogue options in certain situation by para/rene system. By the end of ME1 I had both para and rene bars full, and got grayed out only twice in entire trilogy, and in one case it did not really mattered due to context and what dialogue line I wanted to choose. So all talks about being hard locked out of dialogue options are highly exaggerated and can only happen if player intentionally roleplaying one extreme or the other, but then why are you complaning that your goody two shoes Shepard that has been holier than though through most part of the game suddenly cant behave like a complete sociopath? Its only logical that he doesnt, because you as a player have built his character that way.Actually Ryder has that exact problem - being a good smiling boyscout through like 99% of the game, he sometimes gets an option to act like complete sociopath, which makes him look like someone suffering from acute form of shizophrenia with uncontrolled aggression psychosis spikes. I wish I could like this post more than once ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png)
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 1, 2017 17:27:32 GMT
Reading all those "full renegade shepard blah blah was bad/for luls/makes no sense" posts makes me wonder since when ppl became so square minded. You do realize that you didnt had to always choose either paragon or renegade lines in each and every dialogue, and stick either to red or blue through entire trilogy? You can easily mix and match responses that feels more appropriate for the context. Thats how I played and had an absolute blast, while also never feeling like I am being forcefully locked out of dialogue options in certain situation by para/rene system. By the end of ME1 I had both para and rene bars full, and got grayed out only twice in entire trilogy, and in one case it did not really mattered due to context and what dialogue line I wanted to choose. So all talks about being hard locked out of dialogue options are highly exaggerated and can only happen if player intentionally roleplaying one extreme or the other, but then why are you complaning that your goody two shoes Shepard that has been holier than though through most part of the game suddenly cant behave like a complete sociopath? Its only logical that he doesnt, because you as a player have built his character that way.Actually Ryder has that exact problem - being a good smiling boyscout through like 99% of the game, he sometimes gets an option to act like complete sociopath, which makes him look like someone suffering from acute form of shizophrenia with uncontrolled aggression psychosis spikes. Well of course we realize that, I don't think I ever played full renegade or paragon. Hence the moniker of the "full <xxxx>" play through. Besides I don't really see anyone saying they are against any and all Renegade options, so take the drama down just a notch thanks. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) My only issue with the old system was as you noted getting locked out of one option or the other when a situation called for it. I definitely agree that Ryder needs more Renegade or at the very least more assertive response options.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Apr 1, 2017 18:31:42 GMT
How the hell can poor S. Ryder let his badassery loose when SAM is constantly whispering problem solving advice? Mine here, pathhfinder. Scan that, pathfinder. You shouldn't talk to this dangerous person, pathfinder. Ryder is not a noob...he is a puppet, and is likely screaming on the inside. Sometimes, I think I hear it...or maybe that is me just trying to load yet another corrupted fracking save... My Sara Ryder smart mouthed someone and SAM got onto her for doing so.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 2, 2017 1:52:40 GMT
I want to be ruthless, but for some reason, each game it gets worse. Our hearts just keep growing. How pathetic. I don't want to be able to say "I care about this" in four different tones. I want to be able to say "I don't care about this". Theres nothing unreasonable about that request either.
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Post by ravenous on Apr 2, 2017 2:09:56 GMT
I for one am quite happy that the Paragon/Renegade choices are gone, and I hope that they never bring the Paragon/Renegade back
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Post by fizzypop on Apr 2, 2017 2:10:33 GMT
I desperately wanted a "piss off" interrupt or option for moshea (sp?). She's all yelling about how I didn't do anything for her people and I'm like wtf are you talking about you crazy ol' hag? I just spent the better part of two flipping days doing every goddamn silly fucking quest for your silly ass people and rescuing you...the only reason I picked rescuing the others instead of burning that base to the ground is so I could bang jaal. Get over yourself bitch. Sadly, that was not an option.
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Post by auu on Apr 2, 2017 2:12:55 GMT
"Well. You know. Renegade is very much a Shepard thing. Ryder is very inclusive. S/he is a softy. It's just his character. Throwing around masculinity is terrorism. And Ryder is not a terrorist. So basically Shepard was a terrorist."
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Post by toomanyclouds on Apr 2, 2017 8:22:32 GMT
I think in a story sense it is not too strange that the Ryders can't throw their weight around like the Shepards. Ryder is a 22-year-old with no experience who wasn't even meant to do the job they're doing at the moment. Shepard was a soldier, probably in their early thirties at least, who was so well-respected that they were being considered for the politically charged position of first human Spectre at the very beginning of ME1. Why should the others listen to Ryder when they act like a little tyrant? The only thing that makes them special is that they happen to have an AI in their skull, they're pretty unimpressive otherwise, at least at the beginning of the story. I just hope this sets up a more decisive Ryder in a possible sequel, one who can actually put their foot down.
Whether it was a great idea to write Ryder like that is a different story. I personally like to play people with a more defined personality and Ryder's choice between "the same answer, but once professional and once glib (or, once professional and once emotional)" is kind of underwhelming. Paragon and Renegade was not an amazing system either. Paragon could sometimes be unbelievably virtuous and Renegade often bordered on sociopathy especially in ME3, so even playing a Renegon as my main Shepard, I sometimes felt forced to take one choice over the other just because one of them (usually the Renegade one) was just totally out of line. However, RenShep and ParShep at least felt like different people to me and you could make interesting hybrid characters - my version was a Shepard who was just a bastard, but usually made the Paragon choices were it counted.
As much as DA2 is maligned, I actually think that system way okay. Aggressive Hawke was a good variation. They certainly weren't nice, they weren't pushovers, they could be pretty extreme, but they could still be fairly moral people. You don't need to be a friendly person to be a good person, after all. Also, while Sarcastic Hawke sometimes made me roll my eyes, too, it was a rather clever middle option if you didn't feel like fully committing to being friendly or aggressive in certain situations.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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XBL Gamertag: KLGChaos
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 2, 2017 8:31:12 GMT
Never understood the obsession with every character having to be badass and walking all over people. I like how Ryder is different. I didn't want a Shep clone.
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Post by jclosed on Apr 2, 2017 8:57:45 GMT
Let's not forget that the Shepard situation was completely different. He could act as a sociopath because people where under his command. He could get away with lots of things because he has a complete military force behind him, so even civilians would think twice before just knock him down for being a jerk.
Ryder, however, has no force behind him. He as to be careful to keep his people in line. He has a certain status, but he also has to earn that status. Being a jerk would lose his support fast, and there is no "line of command" like in the army, that could people prevent just replacing him. If he is not diplomatic enough, he will be shove aside and another candidate will replace him. Keep in mind that most people don't know about his direct connection with SAM. But even then, people could simply push him (by cutting his amount of credits by instance) in the role as "advisor" and let somebody else take the real decisions.
Personally I think this is far more realistic, and I am really glad the whole Paragon/Renegade stuff is out of the window.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Apr 2, 2017 10:37:48 GMT
Works well for people who like to be nice guys.
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Post by Nonoru on Apr 2, 2017 10:52:43 GMT
Give me real choices. Give me different paths. Give me the feeling that I am roleplaying.
That's all I ask. No more four (even though it's only two for most of the game) different tones to deliver the exact same answer.
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Post by kaind on Apr 2, 2017 11:06:52 GMT
But thats exactly it. Its not you deciding. Its Ryder deciding and that isn't how Mass Effect works. That is how Mass effect works since ME3. Ryder is not your character anymore than Geralt is.
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Post by kaind on Apr 2, 2017 11:09:03 GMT
Give me real choices. Give me different paths. Give me the feeling that I am roleplaying. That's all I ask. No more four (even though it's only two for most of the game) different tones to deliver the exact same answer. Go play Pillars, Tyranny, Divinity etc. Mass effect is not about roleplaying your character.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 2, 2017 11:11:54 GMT
But thats exactly it. Its not you deciding. Its Ryder deciding and that isn't how Mass Effect works. Ryder is not your character anymore than Geralt is. Well, yeah. Thats why I asked for more options to be added.
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