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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 3, 2017 18:47:40 GMT
These characters don't show their personalities, they tell you about their personalities, they are like self-analyzing psychologists who can now finally explain to Ryder who they really are. That's not good character writing, it clumsy and feels unnatural. The MET characters mostly did not have this problem. You could have conversations with them about different topics and they had more then one personality trait and background to draw from (e.g. Ash in ME1 talks about her family a lot but you also have conversation about her religious beliefs ro how she fells about aliens. It's all connected of course but it's not always the same song all over again. That is one of the main issues. We rarely get to explore these characters, because they just info dump us straight away on how they are feeling and what their issues are. When the game actually has the option to explore those things it really opens up and feels like it should, but that is probably 25% of the time, and its not enough to get invested enough and actually care for them. Which was also one of the main issues many reviews had with the game. I think Drack is the only that there is the most too, and if you talk to him and stay loyal to him the game actually rewards you for it. Yea. Interestingly, the non squad mates on the Tempest are much better in that regard, IMO. You actually feel like you get to know Suvi, Kallo and Lexi over time (Gil not so much, I think). They have scenes where they tell you stuff abou themselves which is not an outright self-analysis and where you can fogure out over time where they are coming from. Not sure why BW screwed that up with the squad mates so much.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 3, 2017 18:49:23 GMT
Drack is a poor man's Wrex.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 18:49:41 GMT
That is one of the main issues. We rarely get to explore these characters, because they just info dump us straight away on how they are feeling and what their issues are. When the game actually has the option to explore those things it really opens up and feels like it should, but that is probably 25% of the time, and its not enough to get invested enough and actually care for them. Which was also one of the main issues many reviews had with the game. I think Drack is the only that there is the most too, and if you talk to him and stay loyal to him the game actually rewards you for it. Yea. Interestingly, the non squad mates on the Tempest are much better in that regard, IMO. You actually feel like you get to know Suvi, Kallo and Lexi over time (Gil not so much, I think). They have scenes where they tell you stuff abou themselves which is not an outright self-analysis and where you can fogure out over time where they are coming from. Not sure why BW screwed that up with the squad mates so much. Agreed. Kallo and Suvi are probably my favourite characters in the game. Also they have a good friendship going. Loved running up to the bridge to hear them banter, and the few cinematics you had with both of them was pretty great. Kallo probably has the most emotional scene in the game aswell. Damn, why are you making me think about these things? Now i can't replay the game on New game plus.
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 3, 2017 18:49:55 GMT
For me, Liam just fell flat out the gate.
He seems to suffer most from the weak dialogue problems afflicting the game in general and then he just comes across as this try hard go lucky character that ends up coming across as kinda stupid because he doesn't look before he leaps, nor does he meaningfully change or learn from his mistakes.
Maybe his whole emphasis on feeling things, doing things, blah bounced off me because I have a heart of cold unyielding steel, but I think it was just terrible.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 18:51:16 GMT
One day BioWARE will write a leading man companion that romances the female PC, and he is not going to become the universally hated character. Two or three more decades maybe? Oh, well, poor Pretty Eyes.
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Post by amleth on Apr 3, 2017 18:51:47 GMT
My squadmate rankings from best to worst
1) Drack, he's only the most stereotypical krogan in a galaxy full of stereotypical krogans.I'm ok with drack, he's a grumpy old man, I'm a grumpy old semi millennial, he's generic but not annoyingly so. 2) Cora, kinda forced myself to like her since she's the only fuckable thing without fangs or tentacles. The whole Asari commando hangup annoys the crap out of me though. 3/4) Tossup here between Peebee and Vetra. Vetra is the entirely boring big sister trope that's been worn out several decades ago and Peebee is dumb as rocks she reminds me of that one friend everyone has who never grew out of their emo phase. 5) Liam, he's a stupid talking hallmark card, the whole i don't think he likes me because I shot him in the face thing is worthy of a 12 year old 6) Jaal, internet furry bait, also basically Carth with all his angst and whininess, definitely in contention for worst bioware character
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 3, 2017 18:53:42 GMT
Yea. Interestingly, the non squad mates on the Tempest are much better in that regard, IMO. You actually feel like you get to know Suvi, Kallo and Lexi over time (Gil not so much, I think). They have scenes where they tell you stuff abou themselves which is not an outright self-analysis and where you can fogure out over time where they are coming from. Not sure why BW screwed that up with the squad mates so much. Agreed. Kallo and Suvi are probably my favourite characters in the game. Also they have a good friendship going. Loved running up to the bridge to hear them banter, and the few cinematics you had with both of them was pretty great. Kallo probably has the most emotional scene in the game aswell. Damn, why are you making me think about these things? Now i can't replay the game on New game plus. Sorry. I know what you mean. Just gotta turn certain areas of your brain off when playing. The funny thing is, I still like the game, even some of the squad mates, despite those problems. But then, I always had a bit of a schizophrenic relationship with Mass Effect, so I guess Andromeda just takes that to the extreme.
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Post by Sable Rhapsody on Apr 3, 2017 18:54:06 GMT
The humans strike again! Its the Kaidan/Ashley thing all over again. Unfortunately yes. Miranda Lawson was the only "lead" human squadmate in Mass Effect whom I liked on par with the aliens, and let's face it, she's pretty polarizing. Least favorite this time around was Cora. She had a fascinating LM, and I liked her better after that, but her character development took too long to kick in. Liam is a fuck-up, but at least he's an entertaining one Not that I didn't like Cora. I liked everyone, but she was the least interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 18:56:01 GMT
Humans are annoying. Maybe don't use the usual "guys in the same boat" mentality. By that, I mean Kaidan, Ashley - Alliance soldiers Miranda, Jacob - Cerberus operatives Cora, Liam - Pathfinder team Maybe you put a badass CEO of a space corporation in your initial squad, and an ordinary family man that discovers his talent for destruction. The fact that Jaal was the most commented figure before release, had the most posts in a thread (by far) in comparison to the other squadmates, may be indicative of something Bioware. Maybe people want new things instead of old ones. And surprisingly or not, that might mean species. An entire new galaxy, only two new alien species in which one of them is entirely antagonistic towards you. As reasonable as not having that many species in one cluster is, maybe that's the problem, it should not have been one cluster. Perhaps Andromeda had technology available for us to travel through the galaxy. The game isn't that bad at all, however. It just seems, as PeeBee puts it: "Been there, done that." I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
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Post by Sable Rhapsody on Apr 3, 2017 19:02:12 GMT
Humans are annoying. The fact that Jaal was the most commented figure before release, had the most posts in a thread (by far) in comparison to the other squadmates may show something Bioware. Maybe people want new things instead of old ones. And surprisingly, that might mean species. For me, the human squaddies need to do something other than be "token human you can bang." It's not like BioWare can't write interesting human characters in Mass Effect. TIM, Anderson, Zaeed, Jack, the Archer bros...they all drew me into their stories because they had more going on than whatever the PC was doing. I wish they could extend that ethos to the "lead" human squaddies.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 19:02:36 GMT
Agreed. Kallo and Suvi are probably my favourite characters in the game. Also they have a good friendship going. Loved running up to the bridge to hear them banter, and the few cinematics you had with both of them was pretty great. Kallo probably has the most emotional scene in the game aswell. Damn, why are you making me think about these things? Now i can't replay the game on New game plus. Sorry. I know what you mean. Just gotta turn certain areas of your brain off when playing. The funny thing is, I still like the game, even some of the squad mates, despite those problems. But then, I always had a bit of a schizophrenic relationship with Mass Effect, so I guess Andromeda just takes that to the extreme. Yeah i like punishing myself so i will go through the game a few more times. I do love the combat, and that is one of the most important things to me when it comes to RPG's, so that helps.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 19:06:01 GMT
Humans are annoying. The fact that Jaal was the most commented figure before release, had the most posts in a thread (by far) in comparison to the other squadmates, may be indicative of something Bioware. Maybe people want new things instead of old ones. And surprisingly or not, that might mean species. An entire new galaxy, only two new alien species in which one of them is entirely antagonistic towards you. As reasonable as not having that many species in one cluster is, maybe that's the problem, it should not have been one cluster. Perhaps Andromeda had technology available for us to travel through the galaxy. The game isn't that bad at all, however. It just seems, as PeeBee puts it: "Been there, done that." I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Also didn't help that they went with Old Krogan Warrior again, and another Asari. I mean give us a Salarian, and if they had Quarians/Drell in from the start we could've had a squadmate extra and replaced Gil with a Quarian mechanic. So many missed oppurtunities. They played it safe, but way too safe. Gil - Replace with Quarian Engineer Liam - Rewrite Drack - Replace with Drell Peebee - Replace with Salarian Vetra - Keep for Turian female awesomeness Cora - Engineer that helped develop SAM Jaal - Stays Suvi - Stays Kallo - Stays
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 19:07:56 GMT
Humans are annoying. The fact that Jaal was the most commented figure before release, had the most posts in a thread (by far) in comparison to the other squadmates, may be indicative of something Bioware. Maybe people want new things instead of old ones. And surprisingly or not, that might mean species. An entire new galaxy, only two new alien species in which one of them is entirely antagonistic towards you. As reasonable as not having that many species in one cluster is, maybe that's the problem, it should not have been one cluster. Perhaps Andromeda had technology available for us to travel through the galaxy. The game isn't that bad at all, however. It just seems, as PeeBee puts it: "Been there, done that." I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Also didn't help that they went with Old Krogan Warrior again, and another Asari. I mean give us a Salarian, and if they had Quarians/Drell in from the start we could've had a squadmate extra and replaced Gil with a Quarian mechanic. So many missed oppurtunities. They played it safe, but way too safe. I agree completely. I thought so too. It should have been the way you described, it would be good.
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Post by Oswin on Apr 3, 2017 19:08:23 GMT
At the moment I would say Cora, but I've never taken her out with me anywhere beyond her loyalty mission so maybe she might grow on me. But her conversations on the Tempest are not enjoyable. I don't like the asari so her incessant fangirling of them is tiresome. Also, when you are doing her loyalty mission and she keeps doing her 'Remember the manual' speech. I wanted to jettison her off that damn ark.
I actually don't mind Liam. He's an idiot, but so is my Ryder so they seem to work well together.
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Post by ravenous on Apr 3, 2017 19:11:45 GMT
I hate Liam, I just see another Jacob Taylor I hate PeeBee I hate Jaal
Cora is my favorite Vetra is my favorite
Drack is ok
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Post by NRieh on Apr 3, 2017 19:16:51 GMT
Well, from where I stand, a man who starts his relations\friendship\career with a superior woman\man by inviting her\him to move some piece of 600yrs old furniture (and have a beer) is anything but 'boring'. Must be my kind of crazy. No, I understand why some people don't love him, but I don't think that 'boring' is the word. Because... that comment about Gill's engine tests on Tempest' local BBS? I looove his writer.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 19:20:52 GMT
Humans are annoying. :P The fact that Jaal was the most commented figure before release, had the most posts in a thread (by far) in comparison to the other squadmates, may be indicative of something Bioware. Maybe people want new things instead of old ones. And surprisingly or not, that might mean species. An entire new galaxy, only two new alien species in which one of them is entirely antagonistic towards you. As reasonable as not having that many species in one cluster is, maybe that's the problem, it should not have been one cluster. Perhaps Andromeda had technology available for us to travel through the galaxy. The game isn't that bad at all, however. It just seems, as PeeBee puts it: "Been there, done that." I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Also didn't help that they went with Old Krogan Warrior again, and another Asari. I mean give us a Salarian, and if they had Quarians/Drell in from the start we could've had a squadmate extra and replaced Gil with a Quarian mechanic. So many missed oppurtunities. They played it safe, but way too safe. Gil - Replace with Quarian Engineer Liam - Rewrite Drack - Replace with Drell Peebee - Replace with Salarian Vetra - Keep for Turian female awesomeness Cora - Engineer that helped develop SAM Jaal - Stays Suvi - Stays Kallo - Stays OMG, I want to play too!!! Gil - yep, M!Quarian Engineer! Liam - replace with an Asian crazy kid and revoice Drack - replace with a Batarian or Vorcha for either more lore or giggles PeeBee - replace with a female Drell Suvi - rewrite or reface or revoice or... something. ANYTHING, pls! Jaal - tell the VA to speak faster, please!!!
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Post by Oswin on Apr 3, 2017 19:21:02 GMT
Humans are annoying. The fact that Jaal was the most commented figure before release, had the most posts in a thread (by far) in comparison to the other squadmates, may be indicative of something Bioware. Maybe people want new things instead of old ones. And surprisingly or not, that might mean species. An entire new galaxy, only two new alien species in which one of them is entirely antagonistic towards you. As reasonable as not having that many species in one cluster is, maybe that's the problem, it should not have been one cluster. Perhaps Andromeda had technology available for us to travel through the galaxy. The game isn't that bad at all, however. It just seems, as PeeBee puts it: "Been there, done that." I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Also didn't help that they went with Old Krogan Warrior again, and another Asari. I mean give us a Salarian, and if they had Quarians/Drell in from the start we could've had a squadmate extra and replaced Gil with a Quarian mechanic. So many missed oppurtunities. They played it safe, but way too safe. Gil - Replace with Quarian Engineer Liam - Rewrite Drack - Replace with Drell Peebee - Replace with Salarian Vetra - Keep for Turian female awesomeness Cora - Engineer that helped develop SAM Jaal - Stays Suvi - Stays Kallo - Stays Throw in an Elcor and I'm game Seriously though, there are so many great species in the Milky Way so I'm kinda bummed that your team is more of the same. I feel like ME2 spoiled me too much. I freaking loved Thane and Legion out of the new squaddies in that game. It breaks my heart that you get a whole 'Oh, the Quarian ship with all the other species on left late' excuse for not having loads of the races I want to see not make it to Andromeda yet. I want another Drell squadmate. Give me a Salarian squadmate. If SAM got himself a body like EDI I'd be down with that as a squadmate to. And when is it time for the Volus to shine? And one again - Give me my damn Elcor.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 19:23:07 GMT
Also didn't help that they went with Old Krogan Warrior again, and another Asari. I mean give us a Salarian, and if they had Quarians/Drell in from the start we could've had a squadmate extra and replaced Gil with a Quarian mechanic. So many missed oppurtunities. They played it safe, but way too safe. Gil - Replace with Quarian Engineer Liam - Rewrite Drack - Replace with Drell Peebee - Replace with Salarian Vetra - Keep for Turian female awesomeness Cora - Engineer that helped develop SAM Jaal - Stays Suvi - Stays Kallo - Stays Throw in an Elcor and I'm game Seriously though, there are so many great species in the Milky Way so I'm kinda bummed that your team is more of the same. I feel like ME2 spoiled me too much. I freaking loved Thane and Legion out of the new squaddies in that game. It breaks my heart that you get a whole 'Oh, the Quarian ship with all the other species on left late' excuse for not having loads of the races I want to see not make it to Andromeda yet. I want another Drell squadmate. Give me a Salarian squadmate. If SAM got himself a body like EDI I'd be down with that as a squadmate to. And when is it time for the Volus to shine? And one again - Give me my damn Elcor. Yeah, but I didn't like EDI as a squadmate at all. I mean, she's already there helping you in all missions by giving useful data, why put her in the squad too? It would've been better to have a new squadmate to discover. Maybe a batarian who lost his family to the Reapers in Khar'shan, or the greatest Vorcha warrior of all time, that would've been hilarious. James was also the usual alliance soldier. We needed something more exotic. No wonder Javik got his legion of fans, our dear Trollthean.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 19:26:40 GMT
I did not like EDI, but she seemed to have been needed as a 100% loyal blank squad mate to fill in the gap in the parties of the folks that killed off everyone else in ME1/2. Consequences....
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Post by thedarkprince on Apr 3, 2017 19:28:33 GMT
Both Cora and Liam turned out just like all the other human squad mates over the series.....boring and forgettable. The mandatory 2 human squad mates thing needs to go, especially since almost all of them are pretty lame.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 3, 2017 19:30:13 GMT
Honestly, I would rather have a choice now for PC. I want to play as the Salarian pathfinder.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 19:32:06 GMT
It breaks my heart that you get a whole 'Oh, the Quarian ship with all the other species on left late' excuse for not having loads of the races I want to see not make it to Andromeda yet. What bothers me most about this is that every other species had atleast a few representatives on the Nexus. Why didn't the Drell and Quarians have that aswell? If you only had to make like 5 - 10 models of each it would've been no problem. Actually we didn't even have see the others in game, just aslong as we knew they were there. Its kinda cheap that they did us in like that. Also there is plenty of Salarians in the game, gimme!
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 3, 2017 19:34:04 GMT
It breaks my heart that you get a whole 'Oh, the Quarian ship with all the other species on left late' excuse for not having loads of the races I want to see not make it to Andromeda yet. What bothers me most about this is that every other species had atleast a few representatives on the Nexus. Why didn't the Drell and Quarians have that aswell? If you only had to make like 5 - 10 models of each it would've been no problem. Actually we didn't even have see the others in game, just aslong as we knew they were there. Its kinda cheap that they did us in like that. Also there is plenty of Salarians in the game, gimme! The Drell make sense. Their species is basically extinct, so why would they join it when they need all their people on the Hanar home world to reproduce.
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Post by London on Apr 3, 2017 19:35:16 GMT
Vetra's the least interesting to me.
My preference, at the moment:
1. Cora 2. Jaal (where I am in the game, I feel like it makes sense to constantly bring him) 3. Liam 4. Drack 5. Peebee 6. Vetra
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