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Post by mikeymoonshine on Apr 3, 2017 22:02:20 GMT
IDK if this has been posted here or not so I'll just post it now.
In short: Bioware used facial scan technology that would usually need additional work done to perfect the model, that work either wasn't done or was out sourced to other EA teams. The in house artists focused mostly on ships, armours, specific aliens ect but not human faces. Bioware/EA may have been reluctant to alter female scans because they wanted to make more realistic looking human characters and represent real women.
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Post by DoctorFox on Apr 3, 2017 22:32:07 GMT
If Bioware wants to represent real women, that's totally fine. What i object to is them using mannequins and corpses, devoid of all emotion. As for the outsourcing and excuses. That's in the past now. What they CAN and SHOULD do is rectify the human face animations with a patch. They said they wanted to, well now's the time. Better late than never.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 23:04:46 GMT
If Bioware wants to represent real women, that's totally fine. What i object to is them using mannequins and corpses, devoid of all emotion. As for the outsourcing and excuses. That's in the past now. What they CAN and SHOULD do is rectify the human face animations with a patch. They said they wanted to, well now's the time. Better late than never. What's your objection to equal representation for mannequins and corpses? #deadlivesmatter
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Post by vyshekryshi on Apr 3, 2017 23:33:24 GMT
Bioware/EA may have been reluctant to alter female scans because they wanted to make more realistic looking human characters and represent real women. I hope they will be more willing to alter male scans, because those are mostly hideous and too old.
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Post by fizzypop on Apr 4, 2017 5:11:47 GMT
If Bioware wants to represent real women, that's totally fine. What i object to is them using mannequins and corpses, devoid of all emotion. As for the outsourcing and excuses. That's in the past now. What they CAN and SHOULD do is rectify the human face animations with a patch. They said they wanted to, well now's the time. Better late than never. Right I don't care if you beautify them or not, but fix the damn eyes and weird "not human" feeling they give off. Though I argue that facial scanning while good technology will not recreate a face exactly. Details are going to need to be retouched no matter how you slice it. Add in the details, the quirks. And so if they are so concerned with representing real women then why not just learn to create better and more realistic face structure? Better and more variety in facial textures? More ways to skin a cat and all that jazz.
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Post by ticktak77 on Apr 4, 2017 5:48:02 GMT
At this point, it doesn't really matter why it happened. They effed up.
The real question is what happens now?
Does Bioware Montreal get nuked by EA? Are some people's jobs on the line?
Do Bioware move the Mass Effect project back to Edmonton? You have to figure that "Andromeda 2" is already in pre-production.
The fallout of this will influence, in a big way, the perception of the franchise going forward.
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steppinrazor
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Post by steppinrazor on Apr 4, 2017 6:00:12 GMT
Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
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Post by panzerwzh on Apr 4, 2017 6:08:30 GMT
At this point, it doesn't really matter why it happened. They effed up. The real question is what happens now? Does Bioware Montreal get nuked by EA? Are some people's jobs on the line? Do Bioware move the Mass Effect project back to Edmonton? You have to figure that "Andromeda 2" is already in pre-production. The fallout of this will influence, in a big way, the perception of the franchise going forward. Agree, the long term damage of this franchise is unredeemable.
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Post by steppinrazor on Apr 4, 2017 6:36:54 GMT
If they put it to sleep for like ten years then come back with something amazing, then they could redeem it lol.
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formerfiend
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 4, 2017 7:02:01 GMT
What this tells me is that there is a real lack of judgment regarding prioritization in the development of this game.
Bioware is a company that is known for it's storytelling and characters, not it's ship and armor design.
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Post by mordivier on Apr 4, 2017 7:46:57 GMT
IDK if this has been posted here or not so I'll just post it now. In short: Bioware used facial scan technology that would usually need additional work done to perfect the model, that work either wasn't done or was out sourced to other EA teams. The in house artists focused mostly on ships, armours, specific aliens ect but not human faces. Bioware/EA may have been reluctant to alter female scans because they wanted to make more realistic looking human characters and represent real women. Right...but they apparently weren't opposed to the atrocity that is default Sara Ryder. Default Male Ryder is just like the model photograph, but the female one isn't. That seems too much of a difference to be mere incompetence.
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KLGChaos
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 4, 2017 8:10:29 GMT
But having all the males be ripped supermodels is fine?
I'm all for having a huge diversity of characters, but just like how not everyone is beautiful, not everyone is average either.
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Post by NRieh on Apr 4, 2017 9:07:30 GMT
Face-scans were directly named as one of the reasons behind the limited and lacking CC, it was on a dev's twit. I suppose that's just an extra evidence of 'facial scans' and 'customizable CC-based PC' features not working well together.
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Post by darkway1 on Apr 4, 2017 9:44:41 GMT
Personally,I wonder who or what Bioware is at this point in time.???? I just seen an article on a gaming website today featuring a few of the artists who worked on Mass Andromeda,both moved on to different projects (new Transformers movie) after Mass Effect,we all know the main writer went from Halo,to Mass Effect and then back to Bungie and currently we talk about out sourced animations and facial capture (so much for original character design).......so what exactly is the state of "Bioware"....are they just a management team that out source everything???
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Post by rasande on Apr 4, 2017 10:01:18 GMT
With a 5 year development cycle, 1 year of which was apparently wasted in No Mans Sky experiments along with the decision to not hire professional writers, key people bailing on the project mid development among other things it's pretty obvious to me that the games problems is due to incompetent management. It was their first AAA game and it apparently was too big for their britches.
Also the "represent real women" thing boggles the mind. I have never, ever made a character and thought, no she's too pretty. Over sexualized due to armor, make up or what not maybe, but in generally I want my character to be beautiful. I mean, there's a middle ground between Naomi Cambell at a photoshoot and the nerdy Star Bucks barrista that is Sara Ryder... she's the hero,she's my representation in the game... i don't want her to be super plain.
If they wanted a good representation of women they should've looked at the new Lara Croft, not fucking Wall Mart or whatever...
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Post by solomace on Apr 4, 2017 10:09:32 GMT
People round here would still have you believe the animation is okay and it's being all blown out of proportion.
If what this vid says is true, then even Bioware staff knew the animations were shirt but the suits said its fine, end of year finance etc. Deep down they must of thought the BDF will buy it anyway so ship it. Guess they didn't have as many fans with low standards as they thought.
Regardless of what the BDF would have you think, EA only spending 40 mil on this game and giving it to inexperienced Devs and now the info about outsourcing of some major work, says exactly what they think of the ME franchise. It's dead.
FIFA and Madden is where the money is. Fantasy teams where people spend £1000 on it.
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Post by mordivier on Apr 4, 2017 10:23:50 GMT
With a 5 year development cycle, 1 year of which was apparently wasted in No Mans Sky experiments along with the decision to not hire professional writers, key people bailing on the project mid development among other things it's pretty obvious to me that the games problems is due to incompetent management. It was their first AAA game and it apparently was too big for their britches. Also the "represent real women" thing boggles the mind. I have never, ever made a character and thought, no she's too pretty. Over sexualized due to armor, make up or what not maybe, but in generally I want my character to be beautiful. I mean, there's a middle ground between Naomi Cambell at a photoshoot and the nerdy Star Bucks barrista that is Sara Ryder... she's the hero,she's my representation in the game... i don't want her to be super plain. If they wanted a good representation of women they should've looked at the new Lara Croft, not fucking Wall Mart or whatever...
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Post by pdusen on Apr 4, 2017 10:27:32 GMT
This thread is fun. It's like somebody decided to take all of their sockpuppet accounts for a walk this morning.
Anyway, OP, that video actually has been posted here before.
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SilentFear
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Post by SilentFear on Apr 4, 2017 10:28:20 GMT
Real representation of women ? Wut ?
I mean i have probably seen women as ugly as Sara but by god you really need to look for them to find them. Why is in the current days such a bad thing for a woman to be sexy ? Hell some of the women in my uni are so gorgeous that they may as well be models - but no they are just normal human beings.
At the very least if you are gona make them intentionally ugly - be so kind to make them act like human beings and not like some monsters that have striped the skin of a human and now are desperately trying to act like one. Sara just gives me chills when she starts emoting - its like a horror scene.
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Post by robwolf666 on Apr 4, 2017 10:33:02 GMT
I agree that the CC is hard to work with, I've found that with the female faces you can only do something reasonably attractive with 2 or 3 of the 9 (Slots 1 and 9, I forget which slot the 3rd was) - and even they take a lot of work, because like with every other CC what you create doesn't look exactly the same in the game. The skin tones and hair colours are bad, to put it politely - but, then again, you've never had anything good to work with in BioWare games where CC is concerned.
Another pet peeve for me is how the character looks absolutely nothing like the father or supposed "twin" - and why can't the twin be the same gender as your character? (That's weird to me, lol)
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Post by darkway1 on Apr 4, 2017 10:56:08 GMT
This thread is fun. It's like somebody decided to take all of their sockpuppet accounts for a walk this morning. Anyway, OP, that video actually has been posted here before. Don't be like that,many people are making genuine/valid points. This thread offers an insight into how "today's" Bioware operates......imagine all the animations and characters in Mass Effect were mind blowing/amazing.......Bioware would get all the credit,praise and respect but they didn't do any of it........which is why I asked what does a "Bioware" actually do these days.??
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 4, 2017 10:58:24 GMT
Here's another summary by "the Know"...
...bottom line, we have a combination of corporate ignorance, mismanagement, laziness and - yes - even misguided social politics to blame.
I for one, am done with BW: A company that doesn't respect their audience is not worth my patronage.
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Post by pdusen on Apr 4, 2017 11:05:21 GMT
I for one, am done with BW: A company that doesn't respect their audience is not worth my patronage. He says on a Bioware fan forum talking about Bioware.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 4, 2017 11:10:13 GMT
I for one, am done with BW: A company that doesn't respect their audience is not worth my patronage. He says on a Bioware fan forum talking about Bioware. ...that's a "going forward". I already bought and played MEA, so of course I'm invested in that.
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Post by darkway1 on Apr 4, 2017 11:28:53 GMT
Here's another summary by "the Know"... ...bottom line, we have a combination of corporate ignorance, mismanagement, laziness and - yes - even misguided social politics to blame. I for one, am done with BW: A company that doesn't respect their audience is not worth my patronage. Well,if any of that is true then is sounds like Bioware is no longer capable of making quality character/story driven rpg's......the development/creative structure currently in place is no longer geared for it.
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