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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 15, 2017 2:16:25 GMT
I was hoping they would at least say roughly when during Thursdsay's live stream but I guess I'll just play some other games in the background too while I wait for updates and new content. Zelda Breath of the Wild is incredible and even saying that is an understatement. It doesn't seem that interesting to me. Then again I have not cared for Nintendo since the N64.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 15, 2017 2:57:56 GMT
I don't get it why they take so long. Like, what? there's only 2 dudes in the balance team that can work on updates? And don't try to sell me the "game has been out for only X amount of time, chill the flip out dude, lol" bullshit because that ain't working for me.
We're not asking them to redo the entire multiplayer from scratch, just balance the goddamn powers and weapons. I don't see how that couldn't be done in more than maybe 2 days (day one work, day two test). Unless they use some weird space magic tables that are a pain in the balls to edit and what not, I'm failing to understand how balance is so hard to work on, then again who knows... At least try something! I don't know, it doesn't have to be perfect in one go, but do something. Seriously, the MP is a joke currently.
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Post by a2thelee on Apr 15, 2017 3:36:53 GMT
I would be satisfied if they were just more transparent. I feel like the ME3 forums had a lot of information given to the community by the devs and very informed mods (who were also very active). It sucks we're left to come up with conclusions of our own (that are more optimistic than realistic) and our only source of "info" is a useless stream every week where the devs blatantly try to deceive those watching that MP isn't a dumpster fire. Seriously, we don't even know if balance changes will happen bi-weekly. It would be great if they would at least acknowledge some concerns such as underpowered weapons and combo damage even if they aren't planning to do anything about it.
Wish they would just remaster the original trilogy already so I can go back.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 15, 2017 5:37:39 GMT
I have a pretty concrete idea yes. Hit me like a brick with it.
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Post by q5tyhj on Apr 15, 2017 5:45:45 GMT
I would be satisfied if they were just more transparent. I feel like the ME3 forums had a lot of information given to the community by the devs and very informed mods (who were also very active). Sure but the entire point of shutting down the original forums and moving to Twitter was to avoid having to answer fans' questions, give them information, or receive genuine feedback. This is exactly how BW/EA wants it.
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acicm2
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by acicm2 on Apr 15, 2017 5:49:56 GMT
bioware on updates:
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TormDK
N3
"No Fear! No Pity! NO REMORSE!"
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TormDK on Apr 15, 2017 7:25:33 GMT
I don't get it why they take so long. Like, what? there's only 2 dudes in the balance team that can work on updates? And don't try to sell me the "game has been out for only X amount of time, chill the flip out dude, lol" bullshit because that ain't working for me. We're not asking them to redo the entire multiplayer from scratch, just balance the goddamn powers and weapons. I don't see how that couldn't be done in more than maybe 2 days (day one work, day two test). Unless they use some weird space magic tables that are a pain in the balls to edit and what not, I'm failing to understand how balance is so hard to work on, then again who knows... At least try something! I don't know, it doesn't have to be perfect in one go, but do something. Seriously, the MP is a joke currently. You assume that balance can be achived at the flick of a switch. That does not seem to be the case. They mentioned on their latest stream convolutely that the game is currently balanced around Bronze, and that most people play it, with fewer doing silver, and even fewer doing Gold. So we also have to keep in mind that we are a (vocal) minority. So unless you can figure out a magic math formula whereby with one damage value, you can feel "power" across three different hitpoints pools, I wouldn't expect a quick fix. So we are in fact asking them to redesign it from scratch. You could argue that it should have been thought of before release, and we would be in agreement there - unfortunately that didn't happen, so if you can't live with how things are, take a break and play some other games.
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Post by solaxe on Apr 15, 2017 9:03:36 GMT
I don't get it why they take so long. Like, what? there's only 2 dudes in the balance team that can work on updates? And don't try to sell me the "game has been out for only X amount of time, chill the flip out dude, lol" bullshit because that ain't working for me. We're not asking them to redo the entire multiplayer from scratch, just balance the goddamn powers and weapons. I don't see how that couldn't be done in more than maybe 2 days (day one work, day two test). Unless they use some weird space magic tables that are a pain in the balls to edit and what not, I'm failing to understand how balance is so hard to work on, then again who knows... At least try something! I don't know, it doesn't have to be perfect in one go, but do something. Seriously, the MP is a joke currently. If you think that balancing so many weapons and abilities with so many variables and so many different opinions among the playerbase is easy, then you really have no clue about game developement
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N2
Fuck Billy
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Leland_Gaunt
XBL Gamertag: LeIand_Gaunt
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Post by Leland Gaunt on Apr 15, 2017 9:47:40 GMT
They "need to take [their] time to balance because they wanna make it right".
xD
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nastrodamus
N2
Hates heals, you should try it sometime!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Nastrodamus
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Post by nastrodamus on Apr 15, 2017 9:57:36 GMT
Spider Sense tells me the next "fix" is...fiend get's old school magnet hands. Carry on.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 15, 2017 14:26:23 GMT
You assume that balance can be achived at the flick of a switch. That does not seem to be the case. They mentioned on their latest stream convolutely that the game is currently balanced around Bronze, and that most people play it, with fewer doing silver, and even fewer doing Gold. So we also have to keep in mind that we are a (vocal) minority. So unless you can figure out a magic math formula whereby with one damage value, you can feel "power" across three different hitpoints pools, I wouldn't expect a quick fix.So we are in fact asking them to redesign it from scratch. You could argue that it should have been thought of before release, and we would be in agreement there - unfortunately that didn't happen, so if you can't live with how things are, take a break and play some other games.Wait what? well, at least they admit it. Maybe nobody plays silver or gold because is a fucking grind? I guess they never thought of that, so of course people is mainly on bronze. They did it for ME3, how come after 5 years they're clueless in this game? Oh, and believe it. Already took a "break" from the game long ago. I just enter every day to send a strike team to get mission founds so I don't miss the gear from the store, and that's about it.
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TheThirdRace
N3
MEA MP Builder
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TheThirdRace
Posts: 268 Likes: 701
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thethirdrace
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheThirdRace on Apr 15, 2017 14:32:59 GMT
I don't get it why they take so long. Like, what? there's only 2 dudes in the balance team that can work on updates? And don't try to sell me the "game has been out for only X amount of time, chill the flip out dude, lol" bullshit because that ain't working for me. We're not asking them to redo the entire multiplayer from scratch, just balance the goddamn powers and weapons. I don't see how that couldn't be done in more than maybe 2 days (day one work, day two test). Unless they use some weird space magic tables that are a pain in the balls to edit and what not, I'm failing to understand how balance is so hard to work on, then again who knows... At least try something! I don't know, it doesn't have to be perfect in one go, but do something. Seriously, the MP is a joke currently. You assume that balance can be achived at the flick of a switch. That does not seem to be the case. They mentioned on their latest stream convolutely that the game is currently balanced around Bronze, and that most people play it, with fewer doing silver, and even fewer doing Gold. So we also have to keep in mind that we are a (vocal) minority. So unless you can figure out a magic math formula whereby with one damage value, you can feel "power" across three different hitpoints pools, I wouldn't expect a quick fix. So we are in fact asking them to redesign it from scratch. You could argue that it should have been thought of before release, and we would be in agreement there - unfortunately that didn't happen, so if you can't live with how things are, take a break and play some other games. Balancing for Bronze was their biggest mistake. Who's the idiot who thought it was a good idea? That's the worst idea you can have... Now that I think about it, that idiot must be thinking the same way my boss does. He always finds a way to twist, complicate and make things shit beyond our imagination... So why balancing for Bronze is a tremendously bad idea? The progression around you needing credits to unlock new thingsNow, if we were talking about a few unlockable, that could be easily done on Bronze. The problem is we don't have a few unlockable, there's a shit ton of them. According to calculations from Proto (http://bsn.boards.net/post/484747/thread), unlocking all UR requires around 10950 Bronze games. At around 15 minutes per game, that's 2737.5 hours. If you play 5 hours a day, it will take you 547.5 days to achieve that on Bronze. Let that sink for a moment... 5 hours a day for 18 months (a year and a half) for unlocking everything on the difficulty they balanced things around... And there's gonna be new things to unlock in the future...Even on Gold, it would require around 2190 games. This translate to 5 hours a day for 109.5 days (3 months and a half). Either you balance everything around Bronze, unlocks included, or you balance everything around the difficulty everyone's supposed to play after a little while (Gold). They offer not 1, but 2 higher difficulty tierThe problem with balancing for Bronze is that we're already playing 2 difficulty tiers higher. Everything is still fine on Silver, but the shit hit the fan on Gold. There's nothing worst for a player than feeling powerless. Yet, if MEAMP has teached us something it's that higher difficulties mean your weapons and powers will let you down. All the time you invested in the game means nothing which, ironically, is the total opposite of what an RPG is. When looking at the future, we all know there's gonna be a new higher difficulty introduced down the line. What do we have to look for by investing ourselves in MP? Feeling even more that our weapons and powers are doing no damage? Feeling we're powerless? Feeling the grind instead of the joy? Games are simple, players play to have fun. Fun is subjective, but I would venture most people aren't masochist... What's the solution then?Since they balanced everything around Bronze, and I will admit everything feels good on Bronze, why not push it to the next level? Balancing the weapons, powers and explosions is gonna take a lot of time and they're gonna make a lot of mistakes along the way right? If the weapons, powers and explosions are balanced among each other, why would you touch that? What they need is base difficulty on the amount of enemies, their damage, their speed, their accuracy, their tactics. If we feel powerful on Bronze, then let's make enemies more in line HP/Shield wise with Bronze for higher difficulties. It's gonna take a hell of a lot less efforts, and you get to balance every new weapon, power or equipment for every difficulties in 1 shot. I'm not saying give them the exact same HP/Shield no matter the difficulty, I'm saying give them may 5% to 10% more by difficulty tier and make them more lethal. They designed the game around player's mobility and yet enemies are damage sponges. How emptying 3 clips on a Berserker on Gold is at any point inline with the mobility philosophy? If the enemies had roughly the same amount of HP/Shield on Gold, you can easily compensate by increasing their number to swarm you. They can go a bit faster, they can hit harder, they can be a bit more accurate, they can use new tactics. The important thing is, we would feel powerful even if there's a challenge. One of the greatest addition I've ever seen in a game was the last difficulty in DAIMP. DAIMP had a lot of bad things going on, but that highest difficulty was very amazing. They reworked every single units to add new abilities, deadly ones at that. Yes, they were a bit damage sponges, but damn those new abilities were amazing. The challenge was they could hurt you bad, they were extra speedy, they were mean! This is where difficulty should come from, higher challenge without making you feel powerless.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 15, 2017 17:11:04 GMT
Balancing for Bronze was their biggest mistake. Who's the idiot who thought it was a good idea? That's the worst idea you can have... Now that I think about it, that idiot must be thinking the same way my boss does. He always finds a way to twist, complicate and make things shit beyond our imagination... So why balancing for Bronze is a tremendously bad idea? The progression around you needing credits to unlock new thingsNow, if we were talking about a few unlockable, that could be easily done on Bronze. The problem is we don't have a few unlockable, there's a shit ton of them. According to calculations from Proto (http://bsn.boards.net/post/484747/thread), unlocking all UR requires around 10950 Bronze games. At around 15 minutes per game, that's 2737.5 hours. If you play 5 hours a day, it will take you 547.5 days to achieve that on Bronze. Let that sink for a moment... 5 hours a day for 18 months (a year and a half) for unlocking everything on the difficulty they balanced things around... And there's gonna be new things to unlock in the future...Even on Gold, it would require around 2190 games. This translate to 5 hours a day for 109.5 days (3 months and a half). Either you balance everything around Bronze, unlocks included, or you balance everything around the difficulty everyone's supposed to play after a little while (Gold). They offer not 1, but 2 higher difficulty tierThe problem with balancing for Bronze is that we're already playing 2 difficulty tiers higher. Everything is still fine on Silver, but the shit hit the fan on Gold. There's nothing worst for a player than feeling powerless. Yet, if MEAMP has teached us something it's that higher difficulties mean your weapons and powers will let you down. All the time you invested in the game means nothing which, ironically, is the total opposite of what an RPG is. When looking at the future, we all know there's gonna be a new higher difficulty introduced down the line. What do we have to look for by investing ourselves in MP? Feeling even more that our weapons and powers are doing no damage? Feeling we're powerless? Feeling the grind instead of the joy? Games are simple, players play to have fun. Fun is subjective, but I would venture most people aren't masochist... What's the solution then?Since they balanced everything around Bronze, and I will admit everything feels good on Bronze, why not push it to the next level? Balancing the weapons, powers and explosions is gonna take a lot of time and they're gonna make a lot of mistakes along the way right? If the weapons, powers and explosions are balanced among each other, why would you touch that? What they need is base difficulty on the amount of enemies, their damage, their speed, their accuracy, their tactics. If we feel powerful on Bronze, then let's make enemies more in line HP/Shield wise with Bronze for higher difficulties. It's gonna take a hell of a lot less efforts, and you get to balance every new weapon, power or equipment for every difficulties in 1 shot. I'm not saying give them the exact same HP/Shield no matter the difficulty, I'm saying give them may 5% to 10% more by difficulty tier and make them more lethal. They designed the game around player's mobility and yet enemies are damage sponges. How emptying 3 clips on a Berserker on Gold is at any point inline with the mobility philosophy? If the enemies had roughly the same amount of HP/Shield on Gold, you can easily compensate by increasing their number to swarm you. They can go a bit faster, they can hit harder, they can be a bit more accurate, they can use new tactics. The important thing is, we would feel powerful even if there's a challenge. One of the greatest addition I've ever seen in a game was the last difficulty in DAIMP. DAIMP had a lot of bad things going on, but that highest difficulty was very amazing. They reworked every single units to add new abilities, deadly ones at that. Yes, they were a bit damage sponges, but damn those new abilities were amazing. The challenge was they could hurt you bad, they were extra speedy, they were mean! This is where difficulty should come from, higher challenge without making you feel powerless.The only point I disagree with is that everything feels fine on Bronze, for the rest I pretty much agree on everything. I said before that Bronze should be more like a playground, for testing kits and guns, and new people who has very little idea about how to play to feel comfortable and learn. Bronze shouldn't present any challenge really, not much of a reward either. Silver and above should really be challenging. Right now in Bronze I know that I can't use pretty much any shotgun or AR because they suck. And the thing you mentioned, it's important to give the player the means to kill the enemy. If the player is powerless to eliminate enemies because they all are absurdly tough, the game is not fun anymore. Increasing health and damage output for higher difficulties is the cheapest and oldest way to add difficulty levels on a game. A lot was achieved already in ME3. Why they had to start all over again? They claimed the game was supposed to be fast paced and with great mobility. Mobility gives fast pace, but that bonus goes away when weapons take an absurdly long time to kill the enemy. Where's the fast pace there? ___ In my other comment I said they should be able to work pretty fast because what they're doing (hopefully) is not guesswork. They have the formulas and the logic, they built the game, they know how it works because they made it. For instance I can edit tables in Total War games (a pain in the balls, but can be done), I can edit lot of shit in FO4Edit for Fallout 4 and TESVEdit for Skyrim with relative ease once you know what value does what, and I do guesswork on the process. I don't know how a lot values work because they all follow some obscure formulas that users are not aware of, and even then I can do a lot in one day. A single person. They don't have to do guesswork because they know what the NPCs health is, they know how it scales, they know the dps formulas for all the guns including multipliers if they exist or not. Maybe I am indeed mistaken, but that's the way I see it.
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Fly In The Lotion
N3
It's not a lie if you believe it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: FlyInTheLotion
XBL Gamertag: N7 Swan Killer (retired)
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It's not a lie if you believe it.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
FlyInTheLotion
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Post by Fly In The Lotion on Apr 15, 2017 17:27:48 GMT
There was a Strike Mission last week that gave +100% on combo damage. That felt about right. +100%!!! It makes me sad just to think of it. They'll never raise the combo damage by a hundred percent... we'll be lucky if we get ten.
And seriously. They don't need to balance bi-weekly. Not even monthly. Just get it fucking right once, and don't touch it till the next DLC, when I'm certain they'll fuck up the new weapons as well. Then balance changes can come.
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Post by Kazu on Apr 15, 2017 21:11:51 GMT
How to get the devs to balance around gold? Anything "not good" in gold will be "ok" in silver and "fine too" in bronze.
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Post by outrider on Apr 16, 2017 0:55:16 GMT
It really just comes down to this: Players do not like bullet sponges. You can add challenge without ballooning enemy health so much. Boss types, ok, they can be more spongy, but basic mobs shouldn't be so ridiculous. They should be faster and more deadly, and hey, maybe even smarter if its possible. When enemies aren't stupid, they can be much more fun to take down. It would be interesting if some enemies gained new attacks on high difficulties. Like Berserker Krogan gains new hammer pounding attack on Gold.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 16, 2017 0:59:14 GMT
It really just comes down to this: Players do not like bullet sponges. You can add challenge without ballooning enemy health so much. Boss types, ok, they can be more spongy, but basic mobs shouldn't be so ridiculous. They should be faster and more deadly, and hey, maybe even smarter if its possible. When enemies aren't stupid, they can be much more fun to take down. It would be interesting if some enemies gained new attacks on high difficulties. Like Berserker Krogan gains new hammer pounding attack on Gold. Excellent suggestions. I doubt it will ever happen.
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