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Post by Darth Dennis on Feb 6, 2017 22:34:42 GMT
I'm sure BioWare could've made a handwave mention that it was actually because she was near Sanctuary which indoctrinated her to say her surname was Lawson. Why would indoctrination do that?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 6, 2017 23:04:46 GMT
Becuase i was being sarcastic and Indoctrination is a blatant excuse for any character action that has no sensical motivation behind it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 5:26:56 GMT
That the Asari advance from primitives to the most advanced society in the Milky Way (by virtue of being the first to have discovered the Citadel in 580 BCE) in less that 50 of their generations (since they each live more than a century) and are considered "barely more than a child" at 106 (per Liara in ME1). Javik, in his ME3 argument with Liara in his quarters, is clearly surprised that the Asari mastered writing... which tells us that they were basically unable to write even when the Protheans stopped their uplift of them as the Prothean empire fell in 48,000 BCE.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 12:27:28 GMT
That the Asari advance from primitives to the most advanced society in the Milky Way (by virtue of being the first to have discovered the Citadel in 580 BCE) in less that 50 of their generations (since they each live more than a century) and are considered "barely more than a child" at 106 (per Liara in ME1). Javik, in his ME3 argument with Liara in his quarters, is clearly surprised that the Asari mastered writing... which tells us that they were basically unable to write even when the Protheans stopped their uplift of them as the Prothean empire fell in 48,000 BCE. It also doesn't make sense that some of the Asari consider humans the new kids on the block. While the Asari were the first to discover the Citadel, less than three generations have passed for them since it's discovery. There were some world-building failures with the ME universe. The Asari should have been space-faring for far longer. So should the Alliance for that matter, since it has multiple colonies with millions of inhabitants and is a major economic and military power. 30 years is far too short a timescale for that to have been accomplished. ME1 should probably have been set about 200 years after the Alliance made first contact with the Turians, to make it's rise more plausible while keeping it as the galactic noob.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 13:16:34 GMT
That the Asari advance from primitives to the most advanced society in the Milky Way (by virtue of being the first to have discovered the Citadel in 580 BCE) in less that 50 of their generations (since they each live more than a century) and are considered "barely more than a child" at 106 (per Liara in ME1). Javik, in his ME3 argument with Liara in his quarters, is clearly surprised that the Asari mastered writing... which tells us that they were basically unable to write even when the Protheans stopped their uplift of them as the Prothean empire fell in 48,000 BCE. It also doesn't make sense that some of the Asari consider humans the new kids on the block. While the Asari were the first to discover the Citadel, less than three generations have passed for them since it's discovery. There were some world-building failures with the ME universe. The Asari should have been space-faring for far longer. So should the Alliance for that matter, since it has multiple colonies with millions of inhabitants and is a major economic and military power. 30 years is far too short a timescale for that to have been accomplished. ME1 should probably have been set about 200 years after the Alliance made first contact with the Turians, to make it's rise more plausible while keeping it as the galactic noob. ... makes one wonder why all the species in galaxy are so down on the Krogan for their alleged potential to expand rapidly across the galaxy, don't it? The timeline evidence suggests hat humans can grow populations much quicker than the Krogan can.
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 7, 2017 15:12:54 GMT
Yeah, Alliance strength and influence doesn't make much sense given that humans achieved interstellar flight potential only 30 years ago. That level of presence, territorial expansion, and military might should take many more decades, or even a century or two. Mass Effect lore is trying to make us believe that we managed to almost catch up with races that have been around for literally thousands of years.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 7, 2017 15:29:17 GMT
Yeah, Alliance strength and influence doesn't make much sense given that humans achieved interstellar flight potential only 30 years ago. That level of presence, territorial expansion, and military might should take many more decades, or even a century or two. Mass Effect lore is trying to make us believe that we managed to almost catch up with races that have been around for literally thousands of years. Ah, but BioWare has an excellent reason for that though: "Genetic Diversity" I almost wish they would have just come out and actually said that humans are the special snowflake species, it would certainly be far less cheesy/cringe inducing then that failed attempt at pseudo-sciencing an explanation.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 7, 2017 16:37:37 GMT
Yeah, Alliance strength and influence doesn't make much sense given that humans achieved interstellar flight potential only 30 years ago. That level of presence, territorial expansion, and military might should take many more decades, or even a century or two. Mass Effect lore is trying to make us believe that we managed to almost catch up with races that have been around for literally thousands of years. Ah, but BioWare has an excellent reason for that though: "Genetic Diversity" I almost wish they would have just come out and actually said that humans are the special snowflake species, it would certainly be far less cheesy/cringe inducing then that failed attempt at pseudo-sciencing an explanation. Personally, I would have extended out the timeline so that humanity was living in Council space for much longer, perhaps having been made a turian client species following the First Contact War. That would still allow for humans and turians to have a longstanding distrust of one another and then have humanity break out after the defeat of Sovereign. 100 years minimum but maybe 200 would be better. In that time, humans could have been establishing fleets and developing medi-gel (or was it omni-gel?). Cerberus could have established itself as a result of being "second class citizens", which was never the case in the short 30 years humanity was in contact with Council races. Everything else could have flowed from there with little other change.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 7, 2017 17:30:41 GMT
Ah, but BioWare has an excellent reason for that though: "Genetic Diversity" I almost wish they would have just come out and actually said that humans are the special snowflake species, it would certainly be far less cheesy/cringe inducing then that failed attempt at pseudo-sciencing an explanation. Personally, I would have extended out the timeline so that humanity was living in Council space for much longer, perhaps having been made a turian client species following the First Contact War. That would still allow for humans and turians to have a longstanding distrust of one another and then have humanity break out after the defeat of Sovereign. 100 years minimum but maybe 200 would be better. In that time, humans could have been establishing fleets and developing medi-gel (or was it omni-gel?). Cerberus could have established itself as a result of being "second class citizens", which was never the case in the short 30 years humanity was in contact with Council races. Everything else could have flowed from there with little other change. See now that would be a setting where I could see an organization like Cerberus gaining traction and having a legitimate reason for existing and the notions of humanity as an underdog actually making sense. As it is, humanity has always been on top of the pile in galactic affairs, and Cerberus just feels so redundant. TIM: "Shepard, Cerberus stands for the advancement of humanity above all the other species!"Me: "Well from where I'm sitting; what with a human on the Council, our species surpassing the Volus in economic power and influence, and even the major species like the Turians, Salarians, and Asari all playing second fiddle to our advancements and development of tech; it would seem that we are already dominating the galaxy."
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Post by monicasubzero on Feb 7, 2017 18:19:23 GMT
I know that I must have already said this, and I'm sure someone tried to give a full explanation, but I still can't figure out the reason for the Terminator Reaper at the end on ME2. I really don't understand the purpose of it. If the final form of the Reaper is the squid-like shape, how can the Human Reaper fit into this design? Someone said that the Human Reaper must be the pilot of the starship, but how can that be?
Since I'm currently re-playing ME2, I'm wondering: how could Liara become such a skillful spy, when she couldn't even find the escape way from the Prothean Ruins on Therum?
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Post by shechinah on Feb 7, 2017 18:20:19 GMT
See now that would be a setting where I could see an organization like Cerberus gaining traction and having a legitimate reason for existing and the notions of humanity as an underdog actually making sense. As it is, humanity has always been on top of the pile in galactic affairs, and Cerberus just feels so redundant. TIM: "Shepard, Cerberus stands for the advancement of humanity above all the other species!"Me: "Well from where I'm sitting; what with a human on the Council, our species surpassing the Volus in economic power and influence, and even the major species like the Turians, Salarians, and Asari all playing second fiddle to our advancements and development of tech; it would seem that we are already dominating the galaxy."That is one of my major problems with Cerberus: their agenda and methods are not really warranted by the setting. By the end of the first Mass Effect, humanity has made it to a council seat despite the fact that I don't think humanity should logically be able to meet the requirements like an economy sizable enough to help stabilize galactic economy during crises and field a sizble military during similar. No wonder the volus ambassador feels gibbed.
I always thought Cerberus would have made so much more sense if it had secretly been an organization that was all about defeating the Reapers at any cost hence the experiments.
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 7, 2017 18:44:27 GMT
Guys, you are looking at the whole Cerberus thing way too rationally. It doesn't matter if humans are or aren't top dogs in our galactic neighborhood. The mere fact that we have just encountered other sapient life out there would naturally make a seismic shift in our political system, philosophy, and whatever sciences you care to look at. Very influential and well-connected fearmongering and/or supremacist groups would surely appear in such a climate, warranted or no.
I have absolutely no problem believing that an organization like Cerberus would exist in this setting. You forget Cerberus isn't only pro-human, it's pro-technology as well, which is also to be expected in a world where mind-boggling technological advances have been made in a very short time frame. The question of how far to go and at what cost is a natural one to explore, especially when you have access to remote quasi-colonial political arrangements with minimal centralized oversight (think Noveria). Old institutions and nation-states are fading, new structures have only just appeared, ancient alien life, both friendly and antagonistic, is at our borders, while the entire spectrum of human thought and experience is being put to test like never before in history. Truth be told, I think humanity and Earth are depicted as too stable considering all this.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Feb 7, 2017 19:41:15 GMT
Guys, you are looking at the whole Cerberus thing way too rationally. It doesn't matter if humans are or aren't top dogs in our galactic neighborhood. The mere fact that we have just encountered other sapient life out there would naturally make a seismic shift in our political system, philosophy, and whatever sciences you care to look at. Very influential and well-connected fearmongering and/or supremacist groups would surely appear in such a climate, warranted or no. I have absolutely no problem believing that an organization like Cerberus would exist in this setting. You forget Cerberus isn't only pro-human, it's pro-technology as well, which is also to be expected in a world where mind-boggling technological advances have been made in a very short time frame. The question of how far to go and at what cost is a natural one to explore, especially when you have access to remote quasi-colonial political arrangements with minimal centralized oversight (think Noveria). Old institutions and nation-states are fading, new structures have only just appeared, ancient alien life, both friendly and antagonistic, is at our borders, while the entire spectrum of human thought and experience is being put to test like never before in history. Truth be told, I think humanity and Earth are depicted as too stable considering all this. They did hint at some major political changes and about how society reacted to the sudden announcement of the existence of aliens in the Revelations novel and maybe a few comics (I've never read any). It's a shame that this was never implemented into the games aside from a few bits and pieces found in the codex. I suppose the writers were more interested in the robots, the guns and the monsters than world building and stuff like that.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 7, 2017 19:55:22 GMT
I know that I must have already said this, and I'm sure someone tried to give a full explanation, but I still can't figure out the reason for the Terminator Reaper at the end on ME2. I really don't understand the purpose of it. If the final form of the Reaper is the squid-like shape, how can the Human Reaper fit into this design? Someone said that the Human Reaper must be the pilot of the starship, but how can that be? Since I'm currently re-playing ME2, I'm wondering: how could Liara become such a skillful spy, when she couldn't even find the escape way from the Prothean Ruins on Therum? Clueless about the Reaper form. Theory: something akin to the lo ok of the species being harvested is created to further terrorize them. During the final harvest, that thing is placed in the "heart" of the new Reaper. Opening up any Reaper should find something similar to the species harvested. The cuttlefish is something along the lines of the "spaceship". This theory is substantiated by nothing. The leap Liara made is bizarre. I know comics supposedly dealt with some of the changes but this one in particular illustrates why she would never have made a good information broker. Sure, archaeologists do have to uncover mysteries, but these are generally static mysteries wherein the long dead are not actively attempting to hide what they're doing. Sorry, Liara, it's just not the same thing.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 7, 2017 20:42:29 GMT
Who's idea was it to have the terminator have 3 eyes? I've never seen a human with 3 eyes.
It was discussed in a thread a long time ago. My answer is that someone at Bioware just finished watching the terminator movies and thought it would be cool to have it in ME2
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 20:51:34 GMT
Who's idea was it to have the terminator have 3 eyes? I've never seen a human with 3 eyes. It was discussed in a thread a long time ago. My answer is that someone at Bioware just finished watching the terminator movies and thought it would be cool to have it in ME2 On a practical note... it does give us a larger weak spot hit zone on that side.
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Post by shechinah on Feb 7, 2017 20:53:51 GMT
Who's idea was it to have the terminator have 3 eyes? I've never seen a human with 3 eyes. It was discussed in a thread a long time ago. My answer is that someone at Bioware just finished watching the terminator movies and thought it would be cool to have it in ME2 s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3b/d6/cc/3bd6cc79ceb2f0709394e3c4ffa1d855.jpg
Seriously, though, I've speculated that the idea behind it was that the human construct would be a part of the inside of its reaper, preserving the memory of how humans looked like and playing to the idea of Reapers as being living museums of extinct races. I'm not saying that I think it is an idea that makes sense for the Reapers, only that I think it may have been what the explaination was beside Rule of Cool being invoked.
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Post by Lavochkin on Feb 7, 2017 21:45:44 GMT
Space Terminator's designs makes zero sense on numerous levels; on top of it having three eyes, it having arms and a beam cannon makes no sense given that it's supposed to be the core of a ship. Then there's the whole human/species preservation bit, which fitted inside of a vessel that might end up being destroyed in combat makes no sense either(it'd be better off stored in some place in dark space). I think the devs were just playing Contra 3 during development and thought adding this boss from it into ME2 was a "cool" idea. s19.postimg.org/gl8lis5fn/Foto_Contra_III_The_Alien_Wars.jpgThe sad part is that this boss makes more sense in the context of Contra 3 than space terminator does in ME2.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 7, 2017 23:34:57 GMT
Yeah, Alliance strength and influence doesn't make much sense given that humans achieved interstellar flight potential only 30 years ago. That level of presence, territorial expansion, and military might should take many more decades, or even a century or two. Mass Effect lore is trying to make us believe that we managed to almost catch up with races that have been around for literally thousands of years. Ah, but BioWare has an excellent reason for that though: "Genetic Diversity" I almost wish they would have just come out and actually said that humans are the special snowflake species, it would certainly be far less cheesy/cringe inducing then that failed attempt at pseudo-sciencing an explanation. They did say they were special snowflakes in ME 1. When you over hear a Turian diplomat talk about how of course the Alliance would be the next race appointed to the Council. Even though they are only 30 years old on the galactic scene.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 8, 2017 0:14:14 GMT
Ah, but BioWare has an excellent reason for that though: "Genetic Diversity" I almost wish they would have just come out and actually said that humans are the special snowflake species, it would certainly be far less cheesy/cringe inducing then that failed attempt at pseudo-sciencing an explanation. They did say they were special snowflakes in ME 1. When you over hear a Turian diplomat talk about how of course the Alliance would be the next race appointed to the Council. Even though they are only 30 years old on the galactic scene. Hmm, I must have forgotten that tidbit in ME 1. Still, I would have preferred that assumption that humans are just special compared to everyone remain rather than BioWare try and justify it with "science". "Humans are Special" is already a moronic concept, but trying to explain it away because of our superior genes is just laughably juvenile.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 8, 2017 0:21:58 GMT
They did say they were special snowflakes in ME 1. When you over hear a Turian diplomat talk about how of course the Alliance would be the next race appointed to the Council. Even though they are only 30 years old on the galactic scene. Hmm, I must have forgotten that tidbit in ME 1. Still, I would have preferred that assumption that humans are just special compared to everyone remain rather than BioWare try and justify it with "science". "Humans are Special" is already a moronic concept, but trying to explain it away because of our superior genes is just laughably juvenile. When you first enter the Council Room if you linger around you hear a Turain talk about that. I remember it because they specifically say that the Volus would never be considered. And having just talked to a very pissed off Volus ambassador before that kind of stuck in my head. Science is just another way to do it. Which is why I don't get why people claim the humans are special starts only in ME 2 or 3. The entire set up of ME 1 is about the humans saving the rest of the galaxy who are to stupid to see a problem right in their face.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 8, 2017 0:34:35 GMT
Hmm, I must have forgotten that tidbit in ME 1. Still, I would have preferred that assumption that humans are just special compared to everyone remain rather than BioWare try and justify it with "science". "Humans are Special" is already a moronic concept, but trying to explain it away because of our superior genes is just laughably juvenile. When you first enter the Council Room if you linger around you hear a Turain talk about that. I remember it because they specifically say that the Volus would never be considered. And having just talked to a very pissed off Volus ambassador before that kind of stuck in my head. Science is just another way to do it. Which is why I don't get why people claim the humans are special starts only in ME 2 or 3. The entire set up of ME 1 is about the humans saving the rest of the galaxy who are to stupid to see a problem right in their face. Oh I'm not doubting it was present in ME 1 as well; it just that the first game had the benefit of the most 'alien' elements being present to distract me somewhat.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 0:58:50 GMT
When you first enter the Council Room if you linger around you hear a Turain talk about that. I remember it because they specifically say that the Volus would never be considered. And having just talked to a very pissed off Volus ambassador before that kind of stuck in my head. Science is just another way to do it. Which is why I don't get why people claim the humans are special starts only in ME 2 or 3. The entire set up of ME 1 is about the humans saving the rest of the galaxy who are to stupid to see a problem right in their face. Oh I'm not doubting it was present in ME 1 as well; it just that the first game had the benefit of the most 'alien' elements being present to distract me somewhat. I really just don't see all these "alien elements" other people seem to associate only with ME1. I find ME3 had more alien elements. For example, 1) In ME1, we faced the following enemies: Geth (which are robots and robots exist here on earth), Humans, Asari, Turians, Krogan, Rachni, husks and creepers (hard to tell the difference really), Thresher Maws, and a Thorian. In ME3, we faced all of the above (except the creepers and the Thorian), plus numerous reaperized versions of the other races... Banshees, Brutes, Cannibals, Ravagers, Swarmers, Adjutants (if you bought the DLC), and you met Leviathan (again if you bought the DLC), you could also face all the varieties of Collectors in ME3 (if you bought the Citadel DLC). Lots more aliens than in ME1. 2) Planets. The side mission planets were really just bare rocks of different, some were snow covered, some had grass, some were covered in volcanic ash... all of those environment exist here on earth... nothing really alien there. In ME3, we had a water world in the Leviathan DLC and We had Omega, carried over from ME2 but enhanced in the DLC such that we got a look into the underbelly of the station and it's mines. Even London was torn apart to such a degree that it had a surreal feel about it. The view out the monastery window on Lesuss was strikingly beautiful and very alien: Or Benning: The only difference was you weren't able to drive the mako over all those rocky mountains on Lesuss... but people also complain incessantly about drive the mako... and then they also complain incessantly about driving the hammerhead... and now they're complaining already about the nomad.
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Post by Sondergaard on Feb 8, 2017 6:57:43 GMT
The leap Liara made is bizarre. I know comics supposedly dealt with some of the changes but this one in particular illustrates why she would never have made a good information broker. Sure, archaeologists do have to uncover mysteries, but these are generally static mysteries wherein the long dead are not actively attempting to hide what they're doing. Sorry, Liara, it's just not the same thing. The comics don't really deal with it. She's still a mild mannered archaeologist who, upon losing Shep, turns into Lara Croft. There's no character arc, it just happens because the plot demands it. The comics are a decent read but don't go there looking for answers. For good or bad they make about as much sense as the games.
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Post by I'm Not Dead Just Yet on Feb 8, 2017 15:24:31 GMT
I know that I must have already said this, and I'm sure someone tried to give a full explanation, but I still can't figure out the reason for the Terminator Reaper at the end on ME2. I really don't understand the purpose of it. If the final form of the Reaper is the squid-like shape, how can the Human Reaper fit into this design? Someone said that the Human Reaper must be the pilot of the starship, but how can that be? I often try to imagine it flying through space or landing on a planet alongside its cuttlefish brothers and sisters, but it's so silly. I can't remember if it was in the game or I heard it somewhere else, but supposedly the reapers create new versions of themselves in the likeness of the creatures they are harvesting, but that explanation is made redundant with the Leviathan dlc. I've learned to not take anything that happens in Mass Effect too seriously. Sometimes it's like the writers don't know what they're doing and make things up on the go because it seemed cool at the time even though it contradicts other things or doesn't make any sense.
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