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Post by themikefest on Feb 16, 2017 14:45:46 GMT
You still haven't answered the question. What difference would it have made if the message contained information about the Citadel being a relay?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 14:46:58 GMT
You still haven't answered the question. What difference would it have made if the message contained information about the Citadel being a relay? Yes I did answer the question directly. Stop with the straw man... not biting this time. "I think we're done here." Bye.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 16, 2017 14:58:08 GMT
If Kirrahe is alive in ME3 and Thane wasn't recruited or died in ME2, Kirrahe will say he's been assigned security detail for the councilor. If Thane is in ME3, Kirrahe won't make that comment. Why? How would anyone know that Thane would help the councilor during the coup? Had Kirrahe been with the councilor, the standoff with Kai Leng would've played out much differently or at least I would believe it would. I quoted myself to expand on this after I did a recent ME3 playthrough If Kirrahe is assigned to security detail for the councilor, why isn't someone else assigned to security detail if Kirrahe isn't in ME3? Is it because Bioware wanted a named character to be killed during the coup?
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Post by themikefest on Feb 16, 2017 15:05:10 GMT
Yes I did answer the question directly. Stop with the straw man... not biting this time. "I think we're done here." Bye. It made no difference. You mentioned Thessia. Without the thorian, the asari couldn't do much.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 16:33:36 GMT
Yes I did answer the question directly. Stop with the straw man... not biting this time.) "I think we're done here." Bye. It made no difference. You mentioned Thessia. Without the thorian, the asari couldn't do much. ... and what made it impossible for the Asari to have discovered the Thorian centuries before Shepard came along. In fact, how did Saren know to go to Feros to try to extract information out of the Thorian using an Asari (Shiala) in the first place... Benezia (who had brought Liara to the temple on Thessia nearly 100 years prior to the events of ME1)? I still answered your question directly... I think it would have (or at least could have) made a huge difference. Sorry, if it's not the straw man you're fishing for. ... and none of it precludes the notion that it does not make sense for the Ilos Protheans to have not included a warning about the Citadel being a Mass Relay in their beacon message.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 16, 2017 18:01:27 GMT
It made no difference. You mentioned Thessia. Without the thorian, the asari couldn't do much. ... and what made it impossible for the Asari to have discovered the Thorian centuries before Shepard came along. In fact, how did Saren know to go to Feros to try to extract information out of the Thorian using an Asari (Shiala) in the first place... Benezia (who had brought Liara to the temple on Thessia nearly 100 years prior to the events of ME1)? I still answered your question directly... I think it would have (or at least could have) made a huge difference. Sorry, if it's not the straw man you're fishing for. ... and none of it precludes the notion that it does not make sense for the Ilos Protheans to have not included a warning about the Citadel being a Mass Relay in their beacon message. I think the only ones knowing about the Thorian are the reapers, who came to Feros 50.000 years ago. They may ahve left it alone as it is not an advanced space faring species, so it did not fall into their eradication parameters. So Saren could have gotten the info from Sovereign itself. That said, the Asari could (and should) have used Shiala herself who has the cypher to try and activate/leran from the Thessia beacon, given that they had access to Shepard's reports from ME1. Especially since in light of Shepard's claims at the end of ME1, it seemed crucial to get more information about the Prothean time period and what was really responsible for their extinction.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 16, 2017 18:09:52 GMT
Speaking of the Thorian and the Rachni, both of those species didn't appear to ever have a need to create synthetics due to their unique physiology, and both could arguably be said to be immune to the effects of Reaper indoctrination. If we were to excuse the factors of the other species present in the galaxy, I wonder if the Reapers would have left them alone, despite their relatively advanced state of sentience?
Would the Catalyst even tolerate two examples of a biological species not falling into it's neat little world-view, or would it exterminate them and then sweep their contradiction to it's experiment under the cosmic rug?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 18:21:47 GMT
... and what made it impossible for the Asari to have discovered the Thorian centuries before Shepard came along. In fact, how did Saren know to go to Feros to try to extract information out of the Thorian using an Asari (Shiala) in the first place... Benezia (who had brought Liara to the temple on Thessia nearly 100 years prior to the events of ME1)? I still answered your question directly... I think it would have (or at least could have) made a huge difference. Sorry, if it's not the straw man you're fishing for. ... and none of it precludes the notion that it does not make sense for the Ilos Protheans to have not included a warning about the Citadel being a Mass Relay in their beacon message. I think the only ones knowing about the Thorian are the reapers, who came to Feros 50.000 years ago. They may ahve left it alone as it is not an advanced space faring species, so it did not fall into their eradication parameters. So Saren could have gotten the info from Sovereign itself. That said, the Asari could (and should) have used Shiala herself who has the cypher to try and activate/leran from the Thessia beacon, given that they had access to Shepard's reports from ME1. Especially since in light of Shepard's claims at the end of ME1, it seemed crucial to get more information about the Prothean time period and what was really responsible for their extinction. Sure, I'll buy that. Still... leaving the warning about the Citadel being a trap out of the beacon message only ensured that even if the Asari or anyone else had discovered the Thorian on their own centuries earlier or even if they had found some other way to translate the messages inside the beacons, the needed warning about the Citadel being a trap just wasn't in there to be heard.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 18:28:01 GMT
Speaking of the Thorian and the Rachni, both of those species didn't appear to ever have a need to create synthetics due to their unique physiology, and both could arguably be said to be immune to the effects of Reaper indoctrination. If we were to excuse the factors of the other species present in the galaxy, I wonder if the Reapers would have left them alone, despite their relatively advanced state of sentience? Would the Catalyst even tolerate two examples of a biological species not falling into it's neat little world-view, or would it exterminate them and then sweep their contradiction to it's experiment under the cosmic rug? Actually, that the Catalyst apparently made no effort to exterminate either seems to agree with it's stated purpose of specifically bringing order to the chaos caused by organics creating synthetics that eventually surpass their creators and wipe them out. Since the thorian and the rachni never do that, the "chaos" never develops in their cases. In the eyes of the Catalyst, they stay "primitive" despite being high sentient. No where does the catalyst indicate that he's trying to stop organics from becoming intelligent or sentient. It may not even be "space-faring" as the determinant factor, but AI creation. Maybe the catalyst's personal motive is even simpler and more self-serving... It just can't stand the potential "competition" from other AIs existing in the Milky Way. "You cannot imagine a galaxy that bends to your will."
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 16, 2017 18:31:03 GMT
EDIT: Sorry, got the wrong quote.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 18:32:49 GMT
EDIT: Sorry, got the wrong quote. Oops... just hit the wrong button... meant to quote Vortex13
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 18:34:06 GMT
EDIT: Sorry, got the wrong quote. Lol... we're crossing paths here. I really need to get my eyes checked again.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 16, 2017 18:46:35 GMT
EDIT: Sorry, got the wrong quote. Lol... we're crossing paths here. I really need to get my eyes checked again. Haha, ok, I think we are all sorted out again now. I think the only ones knowing about the Thorian are the reapers, who came to Feros 50.000 years ago. They may ahve left it alone as it is not an advanced space faring species, so it did not fall into their eradication parameters. So Saren could have gotten the info from Sovereign itself. That said, the Asari could (and should) have used Shiala herself who has the cypher to try and activate/leran from the Thessia beacon, given that they had access to Shepard's reports from ME1. Especially since in light of Shepard's claims at the end of ME1, it seemed crucial to get more information about the Prothean time period and what was really responsible for their extinction. Sure, I'll buy that. Still... leaving the warning about the Citadel being a trap out of the beacon message only ensured that even if the Asari or anyone else had discovered the Thorian on their own centuries earlier or even if they had found some other way to translate the messages inside the beacons, the needed warning about the Citadel being a trap just wasn't in there to be heard. So yea, I agree, the Ilos crowd should have added the Citadel warning into the message. It's been a while since I played ME1 so I am not sure how exactly the time line was. But if my memory serves, Vigils speech could be interpreted like this: - Reapers invade through the Citadel relay, kill the leaders and disrupt the relay network and all communications immediatly. - The Ilos crowd realizes that an invasion is happening buthas no real idea about the details. They go into hybernation - They wake up a few centuries later, realize that the reapers have gone and send out a message that just says "Hey, whoever survived the reaper invasion, we are still here on Ilos." - No one replies - Upon realizing that they are the only ones left, the Ilos crowd tries to reconstruct what actually happened (by what means is unclear). Over the next couple of months/years, they figure out the citadel trap. - At this point, they could send out a second message but they don't. It's unclear why. Maybe they didn't have the power left to do so and still go through the conduit. Maybe they thought that only protheans could get the message anyway, so they didn't bother (not knowing about the Thorian). Wharever but they didn't - They go to the Citadel, sabotage the Keepers and die there. => Only a message was sent saying "Hey, we are still on Ilos". because that was their only concern when they sent that message The second possibility would be that the warning about the citadel actually was included in the message but it degraded over 50.000 years and while Shepard has the Cypher, s/he still cannot pick up the message perfectly. This also makes sense, given that ti does take 2 beacons to garble together enough of the message to even only get the idea that the Protheans were on Ilos. Now, IIRC, Vigil never mentions anything of that sort but he never goes into much detail about the message anyway and who can blame him, seeing how urgent and time sensitive the situation was at that point. So I agree, technically the Citadel should have been in the message but I think there are more than enough loopholes to explain why it was not.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 16, 2017 19:16:36 GMT
Speaking of the Thorian and the Rachni, both of those species didn't appear to ever have a need to create synthetics due to their unique physiology, and both could arguably be said to be immune to the effects of Reaper indoctrination. If we were to excuse the factors of the other species present in the galaxy, I wonder if the Reapers would have left them alone, despite their relatively advanced state of sentience? Would the Catalyst even tolerate two examples of a biological species not falling into it's neat little world-view, or would it exterminate them and then sweep their contradiction to it's experiment under the cosmic rug? Actually, that the Catalyst apparently made no effort to exterminate either seems to agree with it's stated purpose of specifically bringing order to the chaos caused by organics creating synthetics that eventually surpass their creators and wipe them out. Since the thorian and the rachni never do that, the "chaos" never develops in their cases. In the eyes of the Catalyst, they stay "primitive" despite being high sentient. No where does the catalyst indicate that he's trying to stop organics from becoming intelligent or sentient. It may not even be "space-faring" as the determinant factor, but AI creation. Maybe the catalyst's personal motive is even simpler and more self-serving... It just can't stand the potential "competition" from other AIs existing in the Milky Way. "You cannot imagine a galaxy that bends to your will." It was willing to use the Geth to kill off the Thorian and had no qualms about turning the Rachni offspring of the Queen into husks while also imprisoning her, so it's certainly wasn't interested in "preserving" such anomalies either. I mean for an intelligence supposedly based on cold hard machine logic you'd think that such a blatant example of organic life existing outside of it's little "experiment" would at the very least give it pause.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 19:53:50 GMT
Actually, that the Catalyst apparently made no effort to exterminate either seems to agree with it's stated purpose of specifically bringing order to the chaos caused by organics creating synthetics that eventually surpass their creators and wipe them out. Since the thorian and the rachni never do that, the "chaos" never develops in their cases. In the eyes of the Catalyst, they stay "primitive" despite being high sentient. No where does the catalyst indicate that he's trying to stop organics from becoming intelligent or sentient. It may not even be "space-faring" as the determinant factor, but AI creation. Maybe the catalyst's personal motive is even simpler and more self-serving... It just can't stand the potential "competition" from other AIs existing in the Milky Way. "You cannot imagine a galaxy that bends to your will." It was willing to use the Geth to kill off the Thorian and had no qualms about turning the Rachni offspring of the Queen into husks while also imprisoning her, so it's certainly wasn't interested in "preserving" such anomalies either. I mean for an intelligence supposedly based on cold hard machine logic you'd think that such a blatant example of organic life existing outside of it's little "experiment" would at the very least give it pause. Saren was willing to use the geth to kill of the Thorian... by extension, possibly Sovereign was will to use the geth to kill off the Thorian. However, Sovereign at that point in the game was not in contact with the Catalyst or even the other Reapers... So, how do you get to the point that "it" (i.e. the Catalyst) was willing to use the geth to kill the Thorian? I'll give you that it was willing to use the rachni as "shock troops" to fight the races they were about to harvest and, as such, wasn't interested in preserving them... but it doesn't ever say that it wants to "preserve" the primitive species... only to leave them alone to develop further. The species it's trying to preserve in Reaper form are the ones it's harvesting. The geth dp provide an example of "cold-hard machine logic" as presented in the game. EDI indicates that, had the quarians not decided to arm their civilian fleet, the geth would have just left those ships alone alone because the geth would have viewed them as being "tactically insignificant." The "personality imprint" of the Catalyst would be that of it's creators - Leviathan. (Vigil's states that his personality comes of Kasad Ishan, head overseer of the Ilos Research facility). Geth personality comes from their Quarian creators... and EDI posits that the quairans mistake was not making the geth enough like them. Leviathan's personality is that it made the entire galaxy bend to it's will... hence, I'm suggesting that the "personality" of the Catalyst may fall in line with that sort of thinking from its creators. It's not adverse to using "slaves" of any kind - rachni included.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 16, 2017 20:20:00 GMT
The way I see it, the catalyst just doesn't give a dam about non-space faring, non-tech-advanced species. Whether they live or die is irrelevant to to the reapers. After all, when they attack Earth, I am sure they destroy entire ecosystems and make dozens of animal species go extinct. Same on other planets, I'm sure. They wouldn't attack them actively unless there is a cause though. That's why they'd leave the Thorian alone 50.000 years ago. But, after it was clear that the Thorian has the cypher and could potentially give it to the reapers' enemies (i.e. Shepard), it became a liability to the reapers' plans and thus it was attacked. Same for the rachni. They didn't matter much as a species but when they were useful as shock troops, they were used because ti didn't matter whether or not a species would die The only relevant parameter is that all advanced organic species have to die at the end of a cycle and that some lower species have to survive to repopulate the galaxy for the next cycle, so "life" as a whole is preserved. But if some lower species go extinct in the process, well, the reapers/catalyst really don't care.
As for the Thorian being a counter example to the catalyst's hypothesis which should give him pause, not really. The catalyst's hypothesis is not a scientific one. It can neither be proved correct not disproved as it is projecting a possibility into some uncertain point in the future. In fact, the catalyst's motivation is less logic but more of a belief system (similar to a religion, I'd say). Therefore, any counter example would just be a case of "just give it enough time and it will yet become a problem".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 20:41:47 GMT
Lol... we're crossing paths here. I really need to get my eyes checked again. Haha, ok, I think we are all sorted out again now. Sure, I'll buy that. Still... leaving the warning about the Citadel being a trap out of the beacon message only ensured that even if the Asari or anyone else had discovered the Thorian on their own centuries earlier or even if they had found some other way to translate the messages inside the beacons, the needed warning about the Citadel being a trap just wasn't in there to be heard. So yea, I agree, the Ilos crowd should have added the Citadel warning into the message. It's been a while since I played ME1 so I am not sure how exactly the time line was. But if my memory serves, Vigils speech could be interpreted like this: - Reapers invade through the Citadel relay, kill the leaders and disrupt the relay network and all communications immediatly. - The Ilos crowd realizes that an invasion is happening buthas no real idea about the details. They go into hybernation - They wake up a few centuries later, realize that the reapers have gone and send out a message that just says "Hey, whoever survived the reaper invasion, we are still here on Ilos." - No one replies - Upon realizing that they are the only ones left, the Ilos crowd tries to reconstruct what actually happened (by what means is unclear). Over the next couple of months/years, they figure out the citadel trap. - At this point, they could send out a second message but they don't. It's unclear why. Maybe they didn't have the power left to do so and still go through the conduit. Maybe they thought that only protheans could get the message anyway, so they didn't bother (not knowing about the Thorian). Wharever but they didn't - They go to the Citadel, sabotage the Keepers and die there. => Only a message was sent saying "Hey, we are still on Ilos". because that was their only concern when they sent that message The second possibility would be that the warning about the citadel actually was included in the message but it degraded over 50.000 years and while Shepard has the Cypher, s/he still cannot pick up the message perfectly. This also makes sense, given that ti does take 2 beacons to garble together enough of the message to even only get the idea that the Protheans were on Ilos. Now, IIRC, Vigil never mentions anything of that sort but he never goes into much detail about the message anyway and who can blame him, seeing how urgent and time sensitive the situation was at that point. So I agree, technically the Citadel should have been in the message but I think there are more than enough loopholes to explain why it was not. There are certainly loopholes that can be used to head canon something. I would find it a little "too convenient" though that the most important part of the message is the one that gets degraded and disappears from however many beacons actually survived in the galaxy. I also have some issues with the timeline theory. Vigil greets Shepard with: "You are not Prothean. But you are not machine, either. This eventuality was one of many that was anticipated. This is why we sent our warning through the beacons." It's clearly not that "their only concern when they sent that message" was to say "Hey, we are still on Ilos" (come rescue us). Also, Vigil indicates that the Ilos facility was working on their mini-relay before the Reapers even attacked: "The Conduit is the key. Before the Reapers attacked, we Protheans were on the cusp of unlocking the mysteries of mass relay technology. Ilos was a top research facility. Here researchers worked to create a small-scale version of a mass relay. One that linked directly to the Citadel, the hub of the relay network." Then, he goes on to say: "All official records of our project were destroyed in the initial attack on the Citadel. While the Prothean empire came crashing down, Ilos was spared." So, the Conduit project is underway before the attack... This, of course, begs the question... Why? ETA: I wanted to also add in this line from Javik: "It seems you believe the Protheans built the mass relays. The Reapers are cunning in their deception." Since Javik was put in stasus before the end of the Reaper War, this again shows that the Protheans were fully aware that the Citadel and Mass Relays were a trap built by the Reapers. Again, showing that the group on Ilos had ample opportunity to include a specific warning about that trap in their beacon message.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 16, 2017 20:46:10 GMT
Vigil greets Shepard with: "You are not Prothean. But you are not machine, either. This eventuality was one of many that was anticipated. This is why we sent our warning through the beacons." Ah, forgot about that sentence. Good point. Well, degradation and difficulty of interpretation it is then. It may be convenient but it works.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 16, 2017 20:47:22 GMT
Speaking of the Thorian and the Rachni, both of those species didn't appear to ever have a need to create synthetics due to their unique physiology, and both could arguably be said to be immune to the effects of Reaper indoctrination. If we were to excuse the factors of the other species present in the galaxy, I wonder if the Reapers would have left them alone, despite their relatively advanced state of sentience? Would the Catalyst even tolerate two examples of a biological species not falling into it's neat little world-view, or would it exterminate them and then sweep their contradiction to it's experiment under the cosmic rug? I'd say the asari clones he thorian could create were "synthetics" Just organic-synthetics.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 20, 2017 3:04:18 GMT
Kai Leng's shields.
I wouldn't want his shields since he needs a power source to charge them back up. All he has to do is stay in cover for few moments like Shepard does. I guess it was done to make the fight more challenging or at least last longer than a few seconds. I don't know.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 20, 2017 3:20:31 GMT
So, the Conduit project is underway before the attack... This, of course, begs the question... Why? ETA: I wanted to also add in this line from Javik: "It seems you believe the Protheans built the mass relays. The Reapers are cunning in their deception." Since Javik was put in stasus before the end of the Reaper War, this again shows that the Protheans were fully aware that the Citadel and Mass Relays were a trap built by the Reapers. Again, showing that the group on Ilos had ample opportunity to include a specific warning about that trap in their beacon message. Why build the Conduit? Honestly, why not? Matriarch Aethyta wanted to build mass relays. I'd wager this was a first step for the Protheans, building a small relay going to a known location. If it was successful, they then move on to creating new, larger relays elsewhere. That aside, if Ilos was a vanguard of research for the Protheans maybe they wanted to be directly linked to the seat of government. Neither is much of a stretch. On to Javik, no, I don't read that as it meaning the Protheans knew the Citadel was a trap. I mean, it's possible they figured that out since the Reapers actually did come through the Citadel relay, but it isn't necessary. Javik could easily intuit it was a Reaper trap based on current records about Sovereign combined with the fact that he knew the Protheans didn't create the Citadel or the mass relay network.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 4:14:52 GMT
So, the Conduit project is underway before the attack... This, of course, begs the question... Why? ETA: I wanted to also add in this line from Javik: "It seems you believe the Protheans built the mass relays. The Reapers are cunning in their deception." Since Javik was put in stasus before the end of the Reaper War, this again shows that the Protheans were fully aware that the Citadel and Mass Relays were a trap built by the Reapers. Again, showing that the group on Ilos had ample opportunity to include a specific warning about that trap in their beacon message. Why build the Conduit? Honestly, why not? Matriarch Aethyta wanted to build mass relays. I'd wager this was a first step for the Protheans, building a small relay going to a known location. If it was successful, they then move on to creating new, larger relays elsewhere. That aside, if Ilos was a vanguard of research for the Protheans maybe they wanted to be directly linked to the seat of government. Neither is much of a stretch. On to Javik, no, I don't read that as it meaning the Protheans knew the Citadel was a trap. I mean, it's possible they figured that out since the Reapers actually did come through the Citadel relay, but it isn't necessary. Javik could easily intuit it was a Reaper trap based on current records about Sovereign combined with the fact that he knew the Protheans didn't create the Citadel or the mass relay network. A small relay going directly from the very top edge of the galaxy map directly to the Citadel in the lower quadrant (i.e. basically across the entire galaxy) just isn't a natural starter project, even if they are small in size. Seems to me like you would start with a pair of mini-relays going to and from two systems that were very close together. If you wanted the one on the Citadel... fine; but it seems you would locate the other in a closer location overall... if only to help coordinate and test the two relays more effectively. Why, before any attack, was the research facility so secret in the first place since expanding the currently existing transportation network would be in the public best interest, wouldn't it?
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Post by melbella on Feb 20, 2017 4:26:01 GMT
Just a thought - it's possible the Citadel was in a different location in the prothean cycle. Isn't is very convenient how close to asari space it is, considering they were the ones the protheans were influencing the most? The reapers could have moved it closer to them so they would find it before anyone else.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 20, 2017 5:12:39 GMT
Why build the Conduit? Honestly, why not? Matriarch Aethyta wanted to build mass relays. I'd wager this was a first step for the Protheans, building a small relay going to a known location. If it was successful, they then move on to creating new, larger relays elsewhere. That aside, if Ilos was a vanguard of research for the Protheans maybe they wanted to be directly linked to the seat of government. Neither is much of a stretch. On to Javik, no, I don't read that as it meaning the Protheans knew the Citadel was a trap. I mean, it's possible they figured that out since the Reapers actually did come through the Citadel relay, but it isn't necessary. Javik could easily intuit it was a Reaper trap based on current records about Sovereign combined with the fact that he knew the Protheans didn't create the Citadel or the mass relay network. A small relay going directly from the very top edge of the galaxy map directly to the Citadel in the lower quadrant (i.e. basically across the entire galaxy) just isn't a natural starter project, even if they are small in size. Seems to me like you would start with a pair of mini-relays going to and from two systems that were very close together. If you wanted the one on the Citadel... fine; but it seems you would locate the other in a closer location overall... if only to help coordinate and test the two relays more effectively. Why, before any attack, was the research facility so secret in the first place since expanding the currently existing transportation network would be in the public best interest, wouldn't it? Do we know that it was super secret all along? Even if it were, well, it's not like we don't have super secret research in the real world. As to the other, I don't know. Is distance really a factor in something that warps space and transports you elsewhere instantaneously?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 5:19:55 GMT
A small relay going directly from the very top edge of the galaxy map directly to the Citadel in the lower quadrant (i.e. basically across the entire galaxy) just isn't a natural starter project, even if they are small in size. Seems to me like you would start with a pair of mini-relays going to and from two systems that were very close together. If you wanted the one on the Citadel... fine; but it seems you would locate the other in a closer location overall... if only to help coordinate and test the two relays more effectively. Why, before any attack, was the research facility so secret in the first place since expanding the currently existing transportation network would be in the public best interest, wouldn't it? Do we know that it was super secret all along? Even if it were, well, it's not like we don't have super secret research in the real world. As to the other, I don't know. Is distance really a factor in something that warps space and transports you elsewhere instantaneously? I believe Vigil does indicate that it was a top secret research facility. Distance does matter according to the codex that describes the differences between primary and secondary relays.
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