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Post by aoibhealfae on Apr 23, 2018 11:03:24 GMT
Frankly, I just assumed Liara planted another capsule on the Hyperion considering the updated transmissions during the reaper war.
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Liara is just a badly written character. Its not hard to dislike her considering her singularly known motivation is just her utter blind devotion to Shepard... Garrus is second to this. And its easy to become defensive for characters that we like.
I like Kaidan. I could describe in length how much pure hatred I get from random people who completely hate him for rejecting Shepard on Horizon or watching their Shepard having apologize to him for cheating on him... but all these are optional. You can kill off Kaidan in ME1.
Liara is always default. There's really no other outlet other than tolerating her every single playthrough.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 23, 2018 17:43:00 GMT
I like Kaidan. I could describe in length how much pure hatred I get from random people who completely hate him for rejecting Shepard on Horizon or watching their Shepard having apologize to him for cheating on him Especially stupid because Ash does the same damn thing! Yet, I never hear about her getting hate for it. |
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Post by aoibhealfae on Apr 23, 2018 18:21:46 GMT
Especially stupid because Ash does the same damn thing! Yet, I never hear about her getting hate for it. Because at the hospital bed, Ashley can apologize to you about Horizon and if you cheat on her, she never really give you a hard time about it. Can reject her right there. But its all "Kaidan is a rude, disloyal dick who don't respect me, Commander Shepard!"..... groan.. even Back Off mod exist just to have Shepard get some "spine" for the hospital scene. OPTIONAL!!! |
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 23, 2018 18:29:05 GMT
Especially stupid because Ash does the same damn thing! Yet, I never hear about her getting hate for it. Because at the hospital bed, Ashley can apologize to you about Horizon and if you cheat on her, she never really give you a hard time about it. Can reject her right there. But its all "Kaidan is a rude, disloyal dick who don't respect me, Commander Shepard!"..... groan.. even Back Off mod exist just to have Shepard get some "spine" for the hospital scene. OPTIONAL!!! Kaidan also apologizes in the hospital bed. Both, during the Cerberus coup, show that they aren't sure about trusting Shepard. So, again, they follow the same path. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 18:38:26 GMT
Because at the hospital bed, Ashley can apologize to you about Horizon and if you cheat on her, she never really give you a hard time about it. Can reject her right there. But its all "Kaidan is a rude, disloyal dick who don't respect me, Commander Shepard!"..... groan.. even Back Off mod exist just to have Shepard get some "spine" for the hospital scene. OPTIONAL!!! Kaidan also apologizes in the hospital bed. Both, during the Cerberus coup, show that they aren't sure about trusting Shepard. So, again, they follow the same path. There are several different dialogue versions with Ashley that vary in intensity depending on how many relationships Male Shepard had attempted in ME2 and who he wound up with. I haven't played too many games with FemShep, but I would expect there to be several different dialogues for Kaidan as well. How those might be affected by a Male Shep/Kaidan romance mod installed (that is, whether bugs or compatibility issues would prevent some of the different ones from triggering), I have absolutely no idea. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 23, 2018 19:13:54 GMT
Kaidan also apologizes in the hospital bed. Both, during the Cerberus coup, show that they aren't sure about trusting Shepard. So, again, they follow the same path. There are several different dialogue versions with Ashley that vary in intensity depending on how many relationships Male Shepard had attempted in ME2 and who he wound up with. I haven't played too many games with FemShep, but I would expect there to be several different dialogues for Kaidan as well. How those might be affected by a Male Shep/Kaidan romance mod installed (that is, whether bugs or compatibility issues would prevent some of the different ones from triggering), I have absolutely no idea. Dialogue existed for it in ME2 but it was never voiced. Similarly, there are files for an mShep and Thane romance in both ME2 and ME3. There's a lot BioWare thought about that they cut for some reason. Maybe time constraints. Yes, though, dialogue changes depending on what came before. Kaidan even shows jealously in the hospital bed if romanced in ME1 and then "cheated on" in ME2. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 17:37:25 GMT
Arrival DLC - Shepard walks in on Kenson as she's about to override power and stop the engines propelling the asteroid towards the mass relay. Shepard either shoots her causing her finger to lift from the trigger of a bomb in death or she just intentionally proceeds with the detonation of that bomb. The bomb goes off either way, but the asteroids progress is not stopped (that is, engines are still running). If the bomb was not intended to be the mechanism that would stop the engines, why did Kenson take the time to bother with it? Wouldn't shee have been better off just overriding the power before Shep got there instead of taking the time to rig up a bomb just to blow Shep and herself up? If the bomb was intended to be the mechanism that would stop the engines, why didn't it do that when it was detonated?
On a slightly different note, why did she tell Shepard what she was going to do in the first place?
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 24, 2018 18:11:41 GMT
Tactus, in the exchange of medical supplies. He says in his experience the Alliance only looks out for their own. In my current playthrough, the Alliance sacrificed a lot of people to take down Sovereign. Doesn't sound like they only look out for themselves.
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Post by opuspace on Apr 24, 2018 18:15:58 GMT
Tactus, in the exchange of medical supplies. He says in his experience the Alliance only looks out for their own. In my current playthrough, the Alliance sacrificed a lot of people to take down Sovereign. Doesn't sound like they only look out for themselves. He might be referring to personal experience with soldiers rather than the organization as a whole. It also makes it look like he has a point in playthroughs where the Destiny Ascension is ignored. |
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Post by opuspace on Apr 24, 2018 18:31:53 GMT
Because at the hospital bed, Ashley can apologize to you about Horizon and if you cheat on her, she never really give you a hard time about it. Can reject her right there. But its all "Kaidan is a rude, disloyal dick who don't respect me, Commander Shepard!"..... groan.. even Back Off mod exist just to have Shepard get some "spine" for the hospital scene. OPTIONAL!!! Kaidan also apologizes in the hospital bed. Both, during the Cerberus coup, show that they aren't sure about trusting Shepard. So, again, they follow the same path. I think that's the clincher:Same path. Ashley is known for having a temper and being more likely to react like on Horizon. Kaidan, however, is the rational, careful one. For him to completely ignore Shepard telling him that she was in a coma and that it wasn't her choice was out of character for him. The expectation of Kaidan was higher because players were expecting a calmer response like what happened during the Cerberus coup (to be fair, that was damn impressive he was willing to hear Shepard out during that stand off on the Citadel). I never really was bothered by the Mars confrontation as it comes off as Bioware giving players Horizon v2 to respond as they wish and to give Ashley/Kaidan actual good reasons to be leery. I was finally happy when they said for all they knew, Shepard could have been an imposter. There. There! That's a really good reason to be suspicious on Horizon and not join! But damn it was baffling at first. They're taking orders from Shepard while questioning Shepard's loyalty in the middle of an environment where they were just shot at. It's a really bizarre place to approach a very emotionally charged discussion. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 24, 2018 19:35:19 GMT
I think that's the clincher:Same path. Ashley is known for having a temper and being more likely to react like on Horizon. Kaidan, however, is the rational, careful one. For him to completely ignore Shepard telling him that she was in a coma and that it wasn't her choice was out of character for him. The expectation of Kaidan was higher because players were expecting a calmer response like what happened during the Cerberus coup (to be fair, that was damn impressive he was willing to hear Shepard out during that stand off on the Citadel). That's a little sketchy to me. We know for a fact that, as a teenager, Kaidan killed a turian biotic that pissed him off. Even if he mostly holds it in check, there's a temper there. People were just looking for a reason to hate him, especially those that already hated Carth Onasi. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 24, 2018 19:36:30 GMT
Tactus, in the exchange of medical supplies. He says in his experience the Alliance only looks out for their own. In my current playthrough, the Alliance sacrificed a lot of people to take down Sovereign. Doesn't sound like they only look out for themselves. He might be referring to personal experience with soldiers rather than the organization as a whole. It also makes it look like he has a point in playthroughs where the Destiny Ascension is ignored. Well, sure, but it's probably a flaw that the import disregards your decision. Also, it was humans who were putting their asses on the line to help the galaxy before ANYONE else stepped in. |
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Post by opuspace on Apr 24, 2018 19:38:35 GMT
I think that's the clincher:Same path. Ashley is known for having a temper and being more likely to react like on Horizon. Kaidan, however, is the rational, careful one. For him to completely ignore Shepard telling him that she was in a coma and that it wasn't her choice was out of character for him. The expectation of Kaidan was higher because players were expecting a calmer response like what happened during the Cerberus coup (to be fair, that was damn impressive he was willing to hear Shepard out during that stand off on the Citadel). That's a little sketchy to me. We know for a fact that, as a teenager, Kaidan killed a turian biotic that pissed him off. Even if he mostly holds it in check, there's a temper there. People were just looking for a reason to hate him, especially those that already hated Carth Onasi. Except that he never gives that impression throughout the entire first game. He's talked about it, but we never see him react in any way that matches it during the events of ME1. He's even stood by while Wrex has a gun pointed at Shepard even if he's romanced. So by the time Horizon comes around, him going off on Shepard feels out of character for someone who talks about always leaving an out for himself. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 24, 2018 19:45:14 GMT
That's a little sketchy to me. We know for a fact that, as a teenager, Kaidan killed a turian biotic that pissed him off. Even if he mostly holds it in check, there's a temper there. People were just looking for a reason to hate him, especially those that already hated Carth Onasi. Except that he never gives that impression throughout the entire first game. He's talked about it, but we never see him react in any way that matches it during the events of ME1. He's even stood by while Wrex has a gun pointed at Shepard even if he's romanced. So by the time Horizon comes around, him going off on Shepard feels out of character for someone who talks about always leaving an out for himself. Like I said, he mostly keeps it in check. Also, Ashley was prepared to kill Wrex under any circumstances. She was in place to do so if she decided it was necessary. Kaidan doesn't roll that way. Besides, you just seem to be coming up with excuses for why people shouldn't like him. |
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Post by opuspace on Apr 24, 2018 19:45:34 GMT
He might be referring to personal experience with soldiers rather than the organization as a whole. It also makes it look like he has a point in playthroughs where the Destiny Ascension is ignored. Well, sure, but it's probably a flaw that the import disregards your decision. Also, it was humans who were putting their asses on the line to help the galaxy before ANYONE else stepped in. I've never liked that opinion where only one person or one organization is doing something important or relevant. It's like when people said that Cerberus was the only one doing something about the Collectors when the Alliance was sending Ashley/Kaidan out to Horizon to address that. It also makes it sound like only Alliance ships ever took down Sovereign or that Council races never sent help to the human colonies when the Reapers hit. |
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Post by opuspace on Apr 24, 2018 19:47:09 GMT
Except that he never gives that impression throughout the entire first game. He's talked about it, but we never see him react in any way that matches it during the events of ME1. He's even stood by while Wrex has a gun pointed at Shepard even if he's romanced. So by the time Horizon comes around, him going off on Shepard feels out of character for someone who talks about always leaving an out for himself. Like I said, he mostly keeps it in check. Also, Ashley was prepared to kill Wrex under any circumstances. She was in place to do so if she decided it was necessary. Kaidan doesn't roll that way. Besides, you just seem to be coming up with excuses for why people shouldn't like him. That...makes Kaidan look bad then on Horizon. He keeps it in check unless it's directed at Shepard? I'm not really making excuses for hating on Kaidan. I'm explaining why the reaction to an out of character behavior of Kaidan gets a strong reaction from fans. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 19:59:41 GMT
Kaidan also apologizes in the hospital bed. Both, during the Cerberus coup, show that they aren't sure about trusting Shepard. So, again, they follow the same path. I think that's the clincher:Same path. Ashley is known for having a temper and being more likely to react like on Horizon. Kaidan, however, is the rational, careful one. For him to completely ignore Shepard telling him that she was in a coma and that it wasn't her choice was out of character for him. The expectation of Kaidan was higher because players were expecting a calmer response like what happened during the Cerberus coup (to be fair, that was damn impressive he was willing to hear Shepard out during that stand off on the Citadel). I never really was bothered by the Mars confrontation as it comes off as Bioware giving players Horizon v2 to respond as they wish and to give Ashley/Kaidan actual good reasons to be leery. I was finally happy when they said for all they knew, Shepard could have been an imposter. There. There! That's a really good reason to be suspicious on Horizon and not join! But damn it was baffling at first. They're taking orders from Shepard while questioning Shepard's loyalty in the middle of an environment where they were just shot at. It's a really bizarre place to approach a very emotionally charged discussion. The whole Horizon conversation is one I generally just grit my teeth and bear it. I wish I could stop my Shepards from opening the conversation with a casual "How you been?" I don't blame Ash or Kaidan for reacting... I want to slap Shepard myself. Being MIA (presumed dead) for 2 years is not like being away on an extended vacation. The second like (paragon choice) irks me even more - "You moved on. I didn't want to reopen old wounds." I'm usually going... what old wounds? The VS at that point hasn't even really said they've moved on yet. |
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Post by opuspace on Apr 24, 2018 20:05:38 GMT
The whole Horizon conversation is one I generally just grit my teeth and bear it. I wish I could stop my Shepards from opening the conversation with a casual "How you been?" I don't blame Ash or Kaidan for reacting... I want to slap Shepard myself. Being MIA (presumed dead) for 2 years is not like being away on an extended vacation. The second like (paragon choice) irks me even more - "You moved on. I didn't want to reopen old wounds." I'm usually going... what old wounds? The VS at that point hasn't even really said they've moved on yet. There's really no good way to resolve that conversation and make everyone happy. The part that gets me is their willingness to believe it's really Shepard and not some imposter posing as them. Shepard just makes me facepalm at the sheer stupidity of some of the comments though like when they tell Ashley/Kaidan to join up with them, it'll just be like old times. No. No Shep, you have not been paying attention to how upset they are. It drives me nuts just as much as when the only rational explanation you can give is saying that it wasn't your choice to be with them and they miss that. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 20:15:09 GMT
Here's another one, but more of a system thing I think. I have the original Xbox 360 discs for ME2, re-installed and updated (within the last year). DLC re-downloaded also within the last year. My friend has been playing and just finished Arrival DLC. I know I've seen videos where Harbinger looks like a proper reaper, but the image my friend got was of the Collector. Is the Reaper image a PC mod or something that was maybe changed on other systems but not on the Xbox 360?
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Post by KrrKs on Apr 24, 2018 20:29:32 GMT
@upagain
Reaper or collector appearance of Harbinger during arrival depends on whether the DLC is done pre or post suicide mission.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 20:58:09 GMT
@upagain Reaper or collector appearance of Harbinger during arrival depends on whether the DLC is done pre or post suicide mission. Ah, thanks... never connected it to that before. I honestly thought it was a flaw in my update or install this time around. Probably hasn't helped that I haven't played the OT all that recently. |
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Post by themikefest on Apr 24, 2018 21:05:50 GMT
The Horizon scene? Hmmm
As soon as the name Cerberus is mentioned, A/K go into hate mode forgetting that the collectors just abducted x number of colonists. I wanted a renegade interrupt to smack them upside the head. They need to pull their head out their fifth point-of-contact and realize that the collectors are the current threat.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 25, 2018 2:33:35 GMT
That...makes Kaidan look bad then on Horizon. He keeps it in check unless it's directed at Shepard? I'm not really making excuses for hating on Kaidan. I'm explaining why the reaction to an out of character behavior of Kaidan gets a strong reaction from fans. But it really doesn't make him look made. First thing a romanced Kaidan doses it hug Shepard. He states his feelings about Shepard working with Cerberus. He remembers all the gruesome things they did in ME1. When you've watched an organization that turned people into husks you have to seriously question why someone would be working with them. Even beyond that, he never raised his voice. What he did say is that he was an Alliance man and always would be. Then he told Shepard to take care. Then he sent an email to Shepard apologizing. There's no contradiction between Kaidan in ME1 and Kaidan in ME2 unless you're actively looking for reasons to hate on him. |
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Post by opuspace on Apr 25, 2018 3:11:41 GMT
That...makes Kaidan look bad then on Horizon. He keeps it in check unless it's directed at Shepard? I'm not really making excuses for hating on Kaidan. I'm explaining why the reaction to an out of character behavior of Kaidan gets a strong reaction from fans. But it really doesn't make him look made. First thing a romanced Kaidan doses it hug Shepard. He states his feelings about Shepard working with Cerberus. He remembers all the gruesome things they did in ME1. When you've watched an organization that turned people into husks you have to seriously question why someone would be working with them. Even beyond that, he never raised his voice. What he did say is that he was an Alliance man and always would be. Then he told Shepard to take care. Then he sent an email to Shepard apologizing. There's no contradiction between Kaidan in ME1 and Kaidan in ME2 unless you're actively looking for reasons to hate on him. I do remember that encounter pretty well and it's no light thing to accuse someone that they betrayed you. He was already getting worked up with questioning why Shepard didn't get in contact with him and saying Shep has turned their back on everything they stand for. It's beyond bizarre for him to assume this was a willing partnership for an Akuze Shepard as he's implying that a romanced Shepard deliberately chose to join Cerberus. For any other Shepard, simply telling him that they were in a coma doesn't change anything. The Citadel stand off is where he seems more himself when he's giving Shepard a chance to explain themselves instead of making accusations like he did on Horizon. It's not my intention to bash the guy. I'm trying to explain how it looks from those who are frustrated with how it goes. I've seen irrational character hate, from accusations about Garrus being like Dr Mengele to periodic visits to fan threads just to make assumptions about people who like certain characters. Horizon is a disservice to Kaidan and Ashley. They deserved better content than that. If fans are angry, I blame the writing. |
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aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
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aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on Apr 25, 2018 4:34:15 GMT
I do remember that encounter pretty well and it's no light thing to accuse someone that they betrayed you. He was already getting worked up with questioning why Shepard didn't get in contact with him and saying Shep has turned their back on everything they stand for. It's beyond bizarre for him to assume this was a willing partnership for an Akuze Shepard as he's implying that a romanced Shepard deliberately chose to join Cerberus. For any other Shepard, simply telling him that they were in a coma doesn't change anything. The Citadel stand off is where he seems more himself when he's giving Shepard a chance to explain themselves instead of making accusations like he did on Horizon. It's not my intention to bash the guy. I'm trying to explain how it looks from those who are frustrated with how it goes. I've seen irrational character hate, from accusations about Garrus being like Dr Mengele to periodic visits to fan threads just to make assumptions about people who like certain characters. Horizon is a disservice to Kaidan and Ashley. They deserved better content than that. If fans are angry, I blame the writing. Kaidan/Ashley didn't even know Shepard was truly dead and was resurrected. Only Liara did. They assumed Shepard fake his/her death for two years to be with Cerberus and Anderson himself stonewalled them from anything because he needed them to make sure it was really Shepard out there and not some impostor. And it wasn't even enough, several hundred thousand people on Horizon was taken by the Collectors. For some unknown reason, the defense grid failed at the precise moment before TIM told Shepard that Collectors invaded Horizon. The whole thing was a set up by Illusive Man. They have the right to refuse and be suspicious of Cerberus... and they are 100% right all along. But Kaidan/Ashley did come back to Citadel Council to testify that Shepard was correct that Collectors are taking the human in the Terminus System. They proved Shepard isn't a rogue Spectre who only work for Cerberus for its resources.. not to serve its goal against the Council (not like Saren and the Geth or Tela Vasir and the Shadow Broker). They also supported Anderson and Hackett of Shepard's testimony about the Reapers to the Alliance committee. It wasn't directly mentioned but everything implied was right there in ME2/3. Had they jumped ship, joining Shepard along with Cerberus, Shepard would be in worse situation at the start of ME3 without any Alliance allies as support. Think about this. They're military officers. Treason isn't a joke. TIM sent Collectors to target them specifically and half of the planet's colonists died because of their past with Shepard. I don't expect Shepard to force them to choose... that was so cruel and it doesn't mean they are less loyal or love Shepard any less. But does that really matter? Player's felt wronged and their pride hurt which turned into resentment and pure hatred. Kaidan/Ashley are rude jerks and aren't perfectly loyal like Garrus or Tali or Liara. They are the worst people ever. The end. |
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