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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 13:56:13 GMT
Still, you have Shepard, who saw Sovereign on Eden Prime, telling them directly that Sovereign is a Reaper (looks like a duck, flies like a duck, etc.)... yet, they continue to say that Reapers have only been seen in Shepard's visions. I could understand if they said that what Shepard was seeing then in his vision were geth ships. I could understand them saying that they believe reapers are geth ships by another name. Instead, they say the whole thing is a hallucination... right down to attributing the sighting of Saren down to the "testimony of one traumatized dock worker." Makes no sense. In addition,Tali also indicates there is evidence about the Reapers being a "hyper-advanced machine race" from the geth's memory core... the same core that proves Saren is looking for the Conduit... so, obviously, "Shepard isn't the only one that has seen them and then only in his/her visions."
Some here think Shiala could have convinced them... or Liara... but that's not likely since "readings" of Shepard's mind would then just be attributed to confirming his/her hallucinations. The proof is on film right at the start of the game. In addition, if Ashley's team could send that film to Normandy, so then could have Shepard sent even better images of Sovereign back to the ship as he progressed throughout the mission. Obviously, the technology existed to do so.
I can actually defend this point of view. But before I will preface it by saying that to an extent I agree more with you. That the council's denial of Shepard's testimonies, not so much from before the Sovereign Attack on the Citadel but after, was ludicrous. However, the council's point of view on Shepard's testimonies, especially with Shepard's initial accusations against Saren, could have been seen as the council believing Shepard was making up stories to try and make humanity sound better, a political move I guess you could say. Not to mention the council member that really doesn't believe you is Sparatus, the Turian councillor. Whose denial of your claims also supports his own race from doing any wrong in Saren. The council always just saw Sovereign as an advanced Geth ship. And when they're being attacked by no other foot soldiers than the Geth themselves. And to a lesser extent husks, which could be rationalized as Geth experiments. Why would they believe Shepard? Also remember that the Citadel Council had been around for almost 3000 years before Shepard's accusation. So I'm sure there would be at least a touch of ego there, thinking they know all there is to know about the galaxy. Well, the Asari Councillor says right out "We know that Saren is after the Conduit, we don't know why." So, to imply the Council did not believe that the Conduit existed would be Bioware contradicting their own writing, again." It still doesn't explain, why Anderson (and Udina) failed to even try to introduce the filmed recording from Eden Prime and other sensory data that must have been gathered by Normandy as it was above the planet. Normandy is, after all, the most sophisticated stealth war ship in the Alliance fleet.
Answer: Bioware wanted to meme government as stupid... which is basing their story continuity on a pathetic meme. It makes no sense and prevented them from developing a whole bunch of great "mystery"-type story lines they could have pursued instead. For example, having Tali collect memory cores from the geth they encounter.. She knows how. Why have her rely on a scrap of data taken from a terminal given to her by Shepard, when she could have been learning so much more from the geth killed on those 5 outposts all along?
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 7, 2021 15:29:23 GMT
I can actually defend this point of view. But before I will preface it by saying that to an extent I agree more with you. That the council's denial of Shepard's testimonies, not so much from before the Sovereign Attack on the Citadel but after, was ludicrous. However, the council's point of view on Shepard's testimonies, especially with Shepard's initial accusations against Saren, could have been seen as the council believing Shepard was making up stories to try and make humanity sound better, a political move I guess you could say. Not to mention the council member that really doesn't believe you is Sparatus, the Turian councillor. Whose denial of your claims also supports his own race from doing any wrong in Saren. The council always just saw Sovereign as an advanced Geth ship. And when they're being attacked by no other foot soldiers than the Geth themselves. And to a lesser extent husks, which could be rationalized as Geth experiments. Why would they believe Shepard? Also remember that the Citadel Council had been around for almost 3000 years before Shepard's accusation. So I'm sure there would be at least a touch of ego there, thinking they know all there is to know about the galaxy. Well, the Asari Councillor says right out "We know that Saren is after the Conduit, we don't know why." So, to imply the Council did not believe that the Conduit existed would be Bioware contradicting their own writing, again." It still doesn't explain, why Anderson (and Udina) failed to even try to introduce the filmed recording from Eden Prime and other sensory data that must have been gathered by Normandy as it was above the planet. Normandy is, after all, the most sophisticated stealth war ship in the Alliance fleet.
Answer: Bioware wanted to meme government as stupid... which is basing their story continuity on a pathetic meme. It makes no sense and prevented them from developing a whole bunch of great "mystery"-type story lines they could have pursued instead. For example, having Tali collect memory cores from the geth they encounter.. She knows how. Why have her rely on a scrap of data taken from a terminal given to her by Shepard, when she could have been learning so much more from the geth killed on those 5 outposts all along?
Tali learning about the Geth would have just made the Catalyst ending even more dumb. So understandably couldn't have them doing that.
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jun 9, 2021 23:41:30 GMT
I just saw this thread. Wow. I am honored. I am posting here again.
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Post by 14thcommander on Jun 10, 2021 19:44:04 GMT
What irks me the most is people not recognizing Shepard when it suits the story, but recognizing them when it wouldn't change the entire plot if they did. Like a memorial was made in their honor in ME2, and yet some people still don't recognize the hero of the citadel and the destroyer of the collectors? Please. What's the point of gaining reputation in ME3 when at that point, everyone in the darn galaxy is very well aware of Shepard's reputation. Ridiculous. Also, no one mentioning the scars, the deterioration of their face over ME2 and ME3. Also sus and kinda breaks immersion. The only time someone mentions it is in the Citadel DLC, at the very end of the game. Like, one of the docs would have something to say about them no? IDK, this breaks immersion.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 10, 2021 20:55:50 GMT
What irks me the most is people not recognizing Shepard when it suits the story, but recognizing them when it wouldn't change the entire plot if they did. Like a memorial was made in their honor in ME2, and yet some people still don't recognize the hero of the citadel and the destroyer of the collectors? Please. What's the point of gaining reputation in ME3 when at that point, everyone in the darn galaxy is very well aware of Shepard's reputation. Ridiculous. Also, no one mentioning the scars, the deterioration of their face over ME2 and ME3. Also sus and kinda breaks immersion. The only time someone mentions it is in the Citadel DLC, at the very end of the game. Like, one of the docs would have something to say about them no? IDK, this breaks immersion. I usually heal those scars first chance I get though.
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jun 10, 2021 22:06:11 GMT
Yes, I know the meme of stupid government. "Ah, yes, 'reapers.'...." But you saved half the colony on Horizon, Kaidan (or Ash) were there. There were Collector Stasis pods all over the place. Freedom's Progress vids of the Collectors, available from the Quarians. And the Council refuses to acknowledge that the Collectors were behind the attack on Horizon. That's over the Galactic News feed. Yep. Okay, stupid meme government. It's overplayed. Good is dumb.
But another thing that really doesn't make any sense is that there has really been virtually no technological development in over 2500 years, since the asari discovered the Citadel. Seriously. "...when I suggested that we make our own mass relays they laughed the blue right off my ass." - Aethyta. And don't say "no need." If there's no "need," one is created. That's how corporations stay in business. There should have been things we can barely imagine. Imagine humans discovering interstellar space travel, colonizing other worlds, and adding 2500 years to that. Yet, no one is any further advanced than the Alliance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 2:50:22 GMT
In the MELE cutscene after hearing the comm about evacuating the Council, we now clearly see the Destiny Ascension escaping into open space as the Citadel arms start to close behind it and Sovereign slips through the arms. It is clear of any fire at that point. Why then is the Destiny Ascension in such peril when the Alliance Fleet arrives? Why didn't it just keep heading away from the Citadel air space? It should have easily been long gone before Shepard is even free from the elevator. This is not a choice Shepard should have had to make at all.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 12, 2021 3:29:11 GMT
In the MELE cutscene after hearing the comm about evacuating the Council, we now clearly see the Destiny Ascension escaping into open space as the Citadel arms start to close behind it and Sovereign slips through the arms. It is clear of any fire at that point. Why then is the Destiny Ascension in such peril when the Alliance Fleet arrives? Why didn't it just keep heading away from the Citadel air space? It should have easily been long gone before Shepard is even free from the elevator. This is not a choice Shepard should have had to make at all. That is something I've been saying for however long. I blame it on the Commander of destiny. Once the council is onboard, it's her responsibility to get them to safety, not put them in harms way. Once the attack begins, she says abandon the Citadel. I get that. You want to lure the enemy away from the station so it doesn't take any damage. But when she says evacuate the council, they are in no immediate danger at that time. If anything, they should be escorted by a security team to the nearest shuttle to fly away from the battle. There is no reason for Shepard to have the choice about deciding the fate of the destiny. He/she has no idea how large a force the geth have. It would have been better if Hackett made the choice. He can see the battle, he knows the number of ships he has, and can decide if the destiny is worth saving or not.
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Post by Phantom on Jun 12, 2021 3:55:17 GMT
In the MELE cutscene after hearing the comm about evacuating the Council, we now clearly see the Destiny Ascension escaping into open space as the Citadel arms start to close behind it and Sovereign slips through the arms. It is clear of any fire at that point. Why then is the Destiny Ascension in such peril when the Alliance Fleet arrives? Why didn't it just keep heading away from the Citadel air space? It should have easily been long gone before Shepard is even free from the elevator. This is not a choice Shepard should have had to make at all. That is something I've been saying for however long. I blame it on the Commander of destiny. Once the council is onboard, it's her responsibility to get them to safety, not put them in harms way. Once the attack begins, she says abandon the Citadel. I get that. You want to lure the enemy away from the station so it doesn't take any damage. But when she says evacuate the council, they are in no immediate danger at that time. If anything, they should be escorted by a security team to the nearest shuttle to fly away from the battle. There is no reason for Shepard to have the choice about deciding the fate of the destiny. He/she has no idea how large a force the geth have. It would have been better if Hackett made the choice. He can see the battle, he knows the number of ships he has, and can decide if the destiny is worth saving or not. Well anyone with common sense should realize what you said is a good idea. Luring Enemies away from the leadership would be important and let them escape. it is like the asari wanted them to die within the crossfire.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 4:19:42 GMT
In the MELE cutscene after hearing the comm about evacuating the Council, we now clearly see the Destiny Ascension escaping into open space as the Citadel arms start to close behind it and Sovereign slips through the arms. It is clear of any fire at that point. Why then is the Destiny Ascension in such peril when the Alliance Fleet arrives? Why didn't it just keep heading away from the Citadel air space? It should have easily been long gone before Shepard is even free from the elevator. This is not a choice Shepard should have had to make at all. That is something I've been saying for however long. I blame it on the Commander of destiny. Once the council is onboard, it's her responsibility to get them to safety, not put them in harms way. Once the attack begins, she says abandon the Citadel. I get that. You want to lure the enemy away from the station so it doesn't take any damage. But when she says evacuate the council, they are in no immediate danger at that time. If anything, they should be escorted by a security team to the nearest shuttle to fly away from the battle. There is no reason for Shepard to have the choice about deciding the fate of the destiny. He/she has no idea how large a force the geth have. It would have been better if Hackett made the choice. He can see the battle, he knows the number of ships he has, and can decide if the destiny is worth saving or not. I've been saying the same thing. I think the nonsense of it, though, has now been made worse in the remaster. I don't recall ever seeing the DA fly away like it does now in that cutscene... and there is no explanation as to why it appears back closer to the Citadel arms during the battle when/if the Alliance fleet is told to hold back.
Hackett ultimately gives the order, but why is he, an admiral, relaying Shepard's orders to Joker... to the rest of the fleet. Why is Joker even calling Shepard to ask him to make such a call... Joker should have called Hackett to get his orders once he joined with the Fifth Fleet.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 12, 2021 4:22:09 GMT
Well anyone with common sense should realize what you said is a good idea. Luring Enemies away from the leadership would be important and let them escape. it is like the asari wanted them to die within the crossfire. As Shepard said, Have the asari ever won a war? Look at ME3, T'soni supposedly found the plans, but for some reason fails to send a copy to Hackett. There's the asari species failing to reveal something they have that might help the war effort. What's next? In ME4, the asari decide to abandon a colony just as it comes under attack? It would seem the asari species could be compared to Leviathan. They suffered from politician syndrome, the big head, believing everything they do and say without giving any thought to the possible consequences. I wonder if there was a species like the asari in past cycles that did the same nonsense. Maybe they spend too much time with the stripper poles. Hmmm. Is it possible the stripper poles are indoctrinating the asari? Now there's something you could use for one of your ideas.
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Post by Monica21 on Jun 12, 2021 16:03:36 GMT
I don't think the council believed you about the Conduit either, which is why they never sent anyone to Ilos to check it out when they grounded the Normandy. From what I remember, they do believe you about the Conduit, but they think it just doesn't matter, and that stationing ships in a defensive posture around the Citadel is enough to prevent Saren from attacking, or at least from winning. And Shepard doesn't know the significance of the Conduit until the conversation with Vigil.
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Post by jrpN7 on Jun 12, 2021 17:41:30 GMT
Considering, for example, most police have body cams or dash cams now in 2021, I found it a bit strange that there wasn't easy recording or footage taken from Shepard or another squad member's helmet during the conversation with Sovereign on Virmire to show the Council. No footage of missions makes it convenient for the council to insist this is all just Shepard dreaming. Another annoying thing that doesn't make sense is how the Council admits the Reapers are real at the end of ME1 (if you save them) and then go back to claiming the Reapers are nonsense in ME2.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 13, 2021 2:49:12 GMT
I don't think the council believed you about the Conduit either, which is why they never sent anyone to Ilos to check it out when they grounded the Normandy. From what I remember, they do believe you about the Conduit, but they think it just doesn't matter, and that stationing ships in a defensive posture around the Citadel is enough to prevent Saren from attacking, or at least from winning. And Shepard doesn't know the significance of the Conduit until the conversation with Vigil. True and true. Shepard didn't know about the significance, but still knew enough about it to believe it was more important than defending the Citadel.
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Post by Exile Isan on Jun 13, 2021 3:02:09 GMT
Why do you get medi-gel as "loot" for killing geth, and other synthetics, in ME1? Never made sense to me.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 13, 2021 3:06:25 GMT
Why do you get medi-gel as "loot" for killing geth, and other synthetics, in ME1? Never made sense to me. Why does the geth dreadnought have medigel dispensers?
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Post by Exile Isan on Jun 13, 2021 3:13:52 GMT
Why do you get medi-gel as "loot" for killing geth, and other synthetics, in ME1? Never made sense to me. Why does the geth dreadnought have medigel dispensers? And why is there medi-gel on the Heretic Station? And how is it you can "heal" Legion or EDI with medi-gel? (I know why from a gameplay perspective, but lore wise that never made sense.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 13:32:39 GMT
How the same people that profess that sabotaging the cure for the genophage is a good thing can claim that the Synthesis ending is bad because it forces a genetic change on people against their will. Do they think that the krogan agreed to having their DNA modified so the majority of their unborn children couldn't live?
The genophage itself is just as much a forced DNA change on an entire population as synthesis. Even the purpose is the same... to negate a threat of further war.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 3, 2021 16:12:28 GMT
I'm going to make some points without discussion of the epilogue, because you're talking about a decision Shepard has to make without knowing what will happen.
Regarding Synthesis: 1. Shepard only has the Catalyst's word on what will happen 2. The Catalyst says that organics and synthetics can't live together in peace, and if you've brokered peace between the Geth and Quarians then you've already proven him wrong, so what is the point of Synthesis and why trust the Catalyst? 3. There is no guarantee of peace, despite what the Catalyst says, just peace between synthetics and organics and only because there will no longer be such a thing as synthetics or organics anymore. There will only be hybrids, and hybrids can still war with each other. 4. Assuming that the Catalyst is right and that there will be peace, the only reason there is peace is because of forced homogeneity. 5. Shepard's stated goal throughout the entire series is the destruction of the Reapers. Not co-mingling with the Reapers, not sharing technology, and definitely not Saren's ideal of making himself "more machine now than man." (Had to get my Obi Wan quote in.) From the very first game, Shepard has said that he needs to destroy the Reapers. The only option that fits Shepard's goal is Destroy.
Regarding the Krogan and the genopage: 1. We know that the Krogan Rebellions lasted decades and that it was because of an unchecked population boom post-Rachni War. 2. Because of the nature of Krogan physiology (biotics, long life, and backup organs), the Rebellions were especially violent. They used asteriods as weapons and rendered three Turian worlds uninhabitable. And because of the high Krogan birth rate, they essentially have unlimited troops. 3. EDI tells us that a Krogan female can give birth to 1,000 eggs, and if that birth rate remains stable, that over 10 million Krogan can be birthed in single generation. 4. We know from Mordin that the genophage is not a sterility plague, but a method used to reduce the Krogan population to pre-spaceflight numbers. 5. We know from Wrex that the Krogan themselves have no interest in curing the genophage. 6. We know from Mordin that the Krogan have demonstrated no interest in concentrating on breeding to keep population numbers stable. The violent nature of the Krogan is borne out is every codex entry and almost every conversation you overhear between Krogan. From the Mass Effect wiki: "Given the prodigious krogan birth rate, it would appear that the enormously violent nature of krogan culture is actually responsible for their dwindling numbers." 7. It's irresponsible to assume that the very nature of the Krogan culture will change because of Wrex and Eve. The blood rage isn't going away, nor will the need to fight a thresher maw to become an adult. 8. Assuming Wrex and Eve are alive in ME3, what's to stop Wrex from being killed by another warlord or clan that isn't taking too kindly to restrictions on birth rates? We shouldn't forget that Wrex's own father tried to kill him, so there's no reason another clan won't try. 8. The safest assumption Shepard can make is that sure, he can cure the genophage, but that once the Reaper threat is dealt with, the galaxy will likely have another problem of what to do with the ever-increasing Krogan population. So, the exact same ingredients that led to the Rebellions in the first place.
So why choose Destroy and also choose to sabotage the cure? Because they're two very different choices with very different results, and the thought process that leads to a conclusion is more than just "but you're violating bodily autonomy." Or at least it should be.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 16:30:19 GMT
I'm going to make some points without discussion of the epilogue, because you're talking about a decision Shepard has to make without knowing what will happen. Regarding Synthesis: 1. Shepard only has the Catalyst's word on what will happen 2. The Catalyst says that organics and synthetics can't live together in peace, and if you've brokered peace between the Geth and Quarians then you've already proven him wrong, so what is the point of Synthesis and why trust the Catalyst? 3. There is no guarantee of peace, despite what the Catalyst says, just peace between synthetics and organics and only because there will no longer be such a thing as synthetics or organics anymore. There will only be hybrids, and hybrids can still war with each other. 4. Assuming that the Catalyst is right and that there will be peace, the only reason there is peace is because of forced homogeneity. 5. Shepard's stated goal throughout the entire series is the destruction of the Reapers. Not co-mingling with the Reapers, not sharing technology, and definitely not Saren's ideal of making himself "more machine now than man." (Had to get my Obi Wan quote in.) From the very first game, Shepard has said that he needs to destroy the Reapers. The only option that fits Shepard's goal is Destroy. Regarding the Krogan and the genopage: 1. We know that the Krogan Rebellions lasted decades and that it was because of an unchecked population boom post-Rachni War. 2. Because of the nature of Krogan physiology (biotics, long life, and backup organs), the Rebellions were especially violent. They used asteriods as weapons and rendered three Turian worlds uninhabitable. And because of the high Krogan birth rate, they essentially have unlimited troops. 3. EDI tells us that a Krogan female can give birth to 1,000 eggs, and if that birth rate remains stable, that over 10 million Krogan can be birthed in single generation. 4. We know from Mordin that the genophage is not a sterility plague, but a method used to reduce the Krogan population to pre-spaceflight numbers. 5. We know from Wrex that the Krogan themselves have no interest in curing the genophage. 6. We know from Mordin that the Krogan have demonstrated no interest in concentrating on breeding to keep population numbers stable. The violent nature of the Krogan is borne out is every codex entry and almost every conversation you overhear between Krogan. From the Mass Effect wiki: "Given the prodigious krogan birth rate, it would appear that the enormously violent nature of krogan culture is actually responsible for their dwindling numbers." 7. It's irresponsible to assume that the very nature of the Krogan culture will change because of Wrex and Eve. The blood rage isn't going away, nor will the need to fight a thresher maw to become an adult. 8. Assuming Wrex and Eve are alive in ME3, what's to stop Wrex from being killed by another warlord or clan that isn't taking too kindly to restrictions on birth rates? We shouldn't forget that Wrex's own father tried to kill him, so there's no reason another clan won't try. 8. The safest assumption Shepard can make is that sure, he can cure the genophage, but that once the Reaper threat is dealt with, the galaxy will likely have another problem of what to do with the ever-increasing Krogan population. So, the exact same ingredients that led to the Rebellions in the first place. So why choose Destroy and also choose to sabotage the cure? Because they're two very different choices with very different results, and the thought process that leads to a conclusion is more than just "but you're violating bodily autonomy." Or at least it should be. Regarding any ending: Shepard only has the word of the Catalyst as to what will happen. The people who built it admit to not knowing really what it does. For all Hackett knows, it "could light the atmosphere on fire" (his own words referring to the risks of the A-bomb in WWII). For all anyone knows, firing it at all could destroy all living things within the galaxy... organic and synthetic alike. If you have no reason to believe the catalyst on one hand... you have no reason to believe the catalyst on any hand. Obvious hypocrisy is obvious.
Given experience in WWII and the effects of radiation, DNA changes are likely in organics regardless of the reason the device is fired. It's a "weapon, massive in size and scope... capable of unquantifiable amounts of energy." Even electromagnetic pulses have effects on living cells.
Regarding the genophage: Listen again to Mordin's LM... It was all based on computer simulations and data points predicting a war with the krogan and would eventually wipe out the krogan. Sounds very similar to synthesis to me. Obvious hypocrisy in supporting one and not the other is obvious.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 3, 2021 16:40:10 GMT
Obvious hypocrisy is obvious. Welp, thanks for living down to expectations and replying to exactly one point. Why did you even bother asking?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 16:48:13 GMT
Obvious hypocrisy is obvious. Welp, thanks for living down to expectations and replying to exactly one point. Why did you even bother asking? You'll note I added a response to the second point.
Another point... Given experiences with WWII and the A-Bomb radiation, it seems likely to me that the firing the Crucible at all is quite likely to affect the DNA of organics anyways. Without the Catalyst's input, you have no idea how its energy will be focused. Since it was moved at the last minute, you're also firing it within a stone's throw of Earth... the most populated planet in the galaxy prior to the Reaper War. Since we're not believing the Catalyst, why not be suspicious that the Reapers moved the Citadel just to sucker Shepard in to firing the darn thing and doing their "harvesting" for them.
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 3, 2021 17:06:53 GMT
You'll note I added a response to the second point. I didn't, because you have a habit of editing after posting. I guess that's as good an argument for Refusal as any. And since you're cherry-picking my argument with one thing you don't like then I'm out. Don't ask questions if you don't want an answer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 17:29:54 GMT
You'll note I added a response to the second point. I didn't, because you have a habit of editing after posting. I guess that's as good an argument for Refusal as any. And since you're cherry-picking my argument with one thing you don't like then I'm out. Don't ask questions if you don't want an answer. Most of your argument is a list of krogan transgressions as listed in the game... which just adds up to the motivation for the genophage being revenge. That doesn't strengthen your argument at all... I'm even giving the "benefit" of being some sort of "benefit" to the krogan... an alternative to their being wiped out.
Yes, I edit... I get interrupted frequently and I'm a bit like Mordin in how I think through problems.
Adding another point: If the Catalyst knew the Crucible "could potentially" wipe out the Reapers (and all other synthetics) and allow Shepard an essentially absolute victory, why didn't he pull his Reapers away from earth as soon as the Crucible was moved in? Reapers can travel FTL twice as fast as anything else in the Galaxy. If anything has a chance of outrunning the "blast" wave, it's the Reapers themselves. So, there's another big contradiction in how the Normandy, leaving after Shepard's decision is made, manage to outrun the "blast" for a seemingly long distance.
Also, if he knew the Crucible "could potentially" wipe out the Reapers (etc.), why did he reveal the procedure for doing so to Shepard in the first place. Why not give his troops even more time to escape unscathed by just letting Shepard stay unconscious (and perhaps even bleed out) next to Anderson?
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Post by Monica21 on Jul 3, 2021 17:52:06 GMT
Most of your argument is a list of krogan transgressions as listed in the game... which just adds up to the motivation for the genophage being revenge. That doesn't strengthen your argument at all... I'm even giving the "benefit" of being some sort of "benefit" to the krogan... an alternative to their being wiped out. Yes, I edit... I get interrupted frequently and I'm a bit like Mordin in how I think through problems. Adding another point: If the Catalyst knew the Crucible "could potentially" wipe out the Reapers (and all other synthetics) and allow Shepard an essentially absolute victory, why didn't he pull his Reapers away from earth as soon as the Crucible was moved in? Reapers can travel FTL twice as fast as anything else in the Galaxy. If anything has a chance of outrunning the "blast" wave, it's the Reapers themselves. So, there's another big contradiction in how the Normandy, leaving after Shepard's decision is made, manage to outrun the "blast" for a seemingly long distance. Also, if he knew the Crucible "could potentially" wipe out the Reapers (etc.), why did he reveal the procedure for doing so to Shepard in the first place. Why not give his troops even more time to escape unscathed by just letting Shepard stay unconscious (and perhaps even bleed out) next to Anderson?
I get that you don't like my argument, but I also don't care. You've yet to provide any rationale why as to why my points are incompatible with your original question. Which was (I'll remind you) "Why are players who sabotage the cure opposed to Synthesis?" I gave you in-game historical facts and evidence about the nature of the Krogan in addition to what the Catalyst tells you, which may be at odds with decisions you've already made. That's more than enough for any player to at least think twice, even if they do end up choosing to cure the genophage. I'm also aware at this point that you're simply not interested in a good faith discussion, you're just trying to argue over player decisions that you personally find abhorrent. And you know what? Fine. Cure the genophage and jump into the beam every time if that's what you want to do. I've given you reasons why a player wouldn't choose that, which is what you asked for.
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