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Post by tyrion26 on May 4, 2017 12:19:19 GMT
was about to ask you what the base was .. but 348.563 doesn't divide nicely by 1.3 or by *1.3 * 1.3 206.250 ?? so ugly. Combo damage might be calculated somehow based on the two powers used ? Yup. Really gross, but this explains the 348.56"3", is just rounding. Neato. SIGH. I guess I'm gonna put together a table. All Primers vs All Detonators. But if the patch is coming within a week or so I'll just wait, because who knows how much of that will change. Any chance you could look at exposure affecting combo damage? From some very basic testing it appeared that exposure debuff was cleared before combo damage took effect. |
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Post by lennybusker on May 4, 2017 12:23:30 GMT
Yup. Really gross, but this explains the 348.56"3", is just rounding. Neato. SIGH. I guess I'm gonna put together a table. All Primers vs All Detonators. But if the patch is coming within a week or so I'll just wait, because who knows how much of that will change. Any chance you could look at exposure affecting combo damage? From some very basic testing it appeared that exposure debuff was cleared before combo damage took effect. Looking at the tests I've posted it appears to be working as you'd expect. I just didn't get until now that different combinations of powers give different combo damage (I suspect based only on the detonator but I'll see later today). Regardless of which combo I did, when I tested with all my ranks in Kineticist I was getting the proper 1.3 * 1.3 bonus from Exposure and the Ascension passive. Later today I'll start looking at more combinations to figure out the base combo damage. Gonna add in ammo priming, and check using Throw as a primer for the base combo value. Then if it does seem to be based on detonator only I'll just run down a list of every kit's detonators. (Someone will need to do Duelist for me, only one I don't have.) |
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 4, 2017 14:30:58 GMT
FWIW I just stumbled across an old reddit thread where it is claimed that combo damage depends upon the detonator, not the primer. Something else to test?
https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/60cpqw/no_spoilers_what_determines_combo_damage/df5bf3x/
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Post by lennybusker on May 4, 2017 14:40:26 GMT
FWIW I just stumbled across an old reddit thread where it is claimed that combo damage depends upon the detonator, not the primer. Something else to test? https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/60cpqw/no_spoilers_what_determines_combo_damage/df5bf3x/ Hah, well, a lot of that is just wrong. But at least we know where this claim came from. -Only thing I've heard (from lead MP dev Bastiaan) is that the difficulty level acts as a multiplier for the combo damage (same as ME3). False. -The actual damage of any power does not contribute to combo stats in any way aside from being a primer and/or detonator. Appears to be false since I'm seeing different combo damage depending on the detonator (very early stages of proving this out, could change) |
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 4, 2017 14:43:19 GMT
-The actual damage of any power does not contribute to combo stats in any way aside from being a primer and/or detonator.Appears to be false since I'm seeing different combo damage depending on the detonator (very early stages of proving this out, could change) Bolded part could be consistent with what you're seeing. Ex: Throw 1 vs. Throw 6 as detonator, no difference in combo damage. BUT Overload 1 vs. Throw 1, for whatever reason Overload when used as a detonator leads to more combo damage. |
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Post by lennybusker on May 4, 2017 16:28:25 GMT
-The actual damage of any power does not contribute to combo stats in any way aside from being a primer and/or detonator.Appears to be false since I'm seeing different combo damage depending on the detonator (very early stages of proving this out, could change) Bolded part could be consistent with what you're seeing. Ex: Throw 1 vs. Throw 6 as detonator, no difference in combo damage. BUT Overload 1 vs. Throw 1, for whatever reason Overload when used as a detonator leads to more combo damage. Oh yeah, like for a given power, if you increase its power with ranking up it definitely does not do more combo damage. Right, yeah. I'm just wondering if this difference in combo damage is somehow due to a combo damage formula that took base power damage into account. I doubt they just picked values out of a hat, but I'm having a hard time seeing the pattern. I'll know more once I collect more base combo damage from all different possible combos, which is my goal. On that note, does anyone know of any powers that have secret priming or detonating properties? For example Throw is actually a primer but it's not listed at all. I swear there was one more I knew about but I can't recall it. |
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 4, 2017 16:33:36 GMT
Overload primes briefly.
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Post by peddroelm on May 4, 2017 17:00:08 GMT
what about explosive barrels. They set up FE ? Are they any good ? Scale with diff ?
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Post by lennybusker on May 4, 2017 17:03:47 GMT
what about explosive barrels. They set up FE ? Are they any good ? Scale with diff ? Less combo damage than powers, I'm afraid. Similar to priming with ammo. The combo does the same damage as the explosion. Quick look: Pull -> Lance combo, 275 combo damage. Cryo Ammo -> Lance combo, 225 combo damage. Tech Barrel -> Lance, 125 explosion, 125 combo damage (need to recheck this one) Cryo Barrel -> Lance, 225 explosion, 225 combo Fire Barrel -> Lance, 225 explosion, 225 combo This is Bronze, so not sure about scaling, but I doubt it. |
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 4, 2017 17:17:59 GMT
The barrels seems to do insane damage when Pulled / Thrown by a Kineticist. But that may be hard to test given her UR status.
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Post by peddroelm on May 4, 2017 17:18:07 GMT
damage attractor on Annihilation works as advertised. (debuff 20%) expose works as advertised (debuff 20% vs BIOTICALLY PRIMED TARGETS (goes away if target is detonated)) they stack additively as expected *(1 + 0.2 + 0.2) phalanx 2 116 base
116.000 // phalanx 2
191.400 // phalanx 2 HS 116 * (1.4 + 0.25)
55.000 // throw impact 50 * (1 + 0.1)
275.000 // environment hit 250 * (1 + 0.1)
352.000 // lance 320 * (1 + 0.1)
turn on anni with damage (55 * (1 + 0.1 + 0.15) * 1.2) / 2 = 41.25 per tick
139.200 // body 116 * 1.2 = 139.2
229.680 // HS 116 * 1.65 * 1.2 = 229.68
330 melee 275 * 1.2 = 330
anni 5 + throw 1
41.250 // (55 * (1 + 0.1 + 0.15) * 1.2) / 2 = 41.25
315.000 // combo 262.5 * 1.2 = 315
66.000 // throw impact 50 * (1 + 0.1) * 1.2 = 66
41.250 //
330.000 // enviro 250 * (1 + 0.1) * 1.2 = 330
anni 5 + lance 2
41.250 // (55 * (1 + 0.1 + 0.15) * 1.2) / 2 = 41.25
420.000 // combo 350 * 1.2 = 420
422.400 // lance 320 * (1 + 0.1) * 1.2 = 422.4
//////////////////////
annihilation debuff 20% debuff + offensive biotics expose 20% debuff vs biotically primed targets
phalanx 3 119 base , 5% WD ; 20% PD
124.950 // phalanx 3 non-HS 119 * (1 + 0.05)
206.167 // phalanx 3 HS 119 * (1 + 0.05) * (1.4 + 0.25)
anni on
51.975 // anni DOT (55 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2)) / 2 = 51.975
174.930 //P body 119 * (1 + 0.05) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 174.93
288.635 //P hs 119 * (1 + 0.05) * (1.4 + 0.25) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 288.6345
anni 5 + throw 1
51.975 // anni dot tick
367.500 // combo 262.5 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 367.5
84.000 // throw impact 50 * (1 + 0.2) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 84
360.000 // enviro // 250 * (1 + 0.2) * (1 + 0.2) = 360 // NO LONGER PRIMED
anni 5 + lance 2
51.975 // anni dot tick
490.000 // combo vs 2 targets 350 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 490
490.000 // combo vs 2 targets
537.600 // lance 320 * (1 + 0.2) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 537.6
149.940 // P after de-priming 119 * (1 + 0.05) * (1 + 0.2 ) |
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Post by kalil on May 4, 2017 17:22:03 GMT
The barrels seems to do insane damage when Pulled / Thrown by a Kineticist. But that may be hard to test given her UR status. Possibly the same hidden buff that is reported on gladiator pull->melee? |
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Post by lennybusker on May 4, 2017 17:22:57 GMT
The barrels seems to do insane damage when Pulled / Thrown by a Kineticist. But that may be hard to test given her UR status. I've got her at 20, she's what I've been testing with so far. Throwing anything at people actually does a boatload of damage. A regular throw into a wall was doing 50 for the throw and 250 for the impact. Pulling then throwing a Chosen into another Chosen was hitting them both for 500 damage (550 for the receiver, actually). I should check throwing regular objects too, like chairs and shit. But yeah I'll add barrels to the list. |
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bjorndadwarf
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Post by bjorndadwarf on May 4, 2017 17:23:17 GMT
The barrels seems to do insane damage when Pulled / Thrown by a Kineticist. But that may be hard to test given her UR status. I occasionally see really crazy damage spikes from certain kinds of explosions, like I've two or three shot nullifiers a handful of times and it usually involves a barrel exploding at the same time that a combo is going off. People have reported something similar with Pull/Hammer from the UR Krogan (which I still don't have). Initially I thought someone else must have been attacking a unit at the same time I was, but I've definitely seen it when I was alone in a room too. I don't know if it's something that is reproducible easily, but I do think there's something that's occasionally wonky specifically with explosions and some kind of multiplied damage. |
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Post by lennybusker on May 4, 2017 17:26:59 GMT
Just to make sure I'm setting up this table in a good way, there are 4 types of primers, regardless of what skill it comes from, right?
Biotic, Electrical (aka Tech), Cryo, and Fire? So like Fortify is a combat power, but when used to prime it becomes a Tech Primer. Just want to make sure I'm not forgetting any.
ed: Another easy Q, I know you can't detonate your own primer with the same power- no comboing Shockwave with YOUR Shockwave, but can you do that with other people's identical power? Can I use my Incinerate to detonate your Incinerate primer?
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Post by capn233 on May 4, 2017 19:20:26 GMT
The barrels seems to do insane damage when Pulled / Thrown by a Kineticist. But that may be hard to test given her UR status. And in SP. The first opportunity to fight a fiend on Eos has some containers sitting in a truck. Pull-Throwing them one shots the insanity fiend. |
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 4, 2017 19:21:42 GMT
ed: Another easy Q, I know you can't detonate your own primer with the same power- no comboing Shockwave with YOUR Shockwave, but can you do that with other people's identical power? Can I use my Incinerate to detonate your Incinerate primer? I believe the answer is yes. I'll try to mimic a pug tonight (i.e. use same character as him) and screencap something. |
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Post by ramsen on May 4, 2017 19:26:14 GMT
Yeah, it makes for example switching between an Equalizer (against Shields) and a Talon (against Armor) on something like an Asari Adept a useful strategy. The Sacattershot thus has 2 bonuses: against shields and against armor. It still doesn't hit very hard but is very viable since you almost never have to recharge (except when you overheat). Scattershot has a bonus to shields? Thought it was just PAW, Equalizer and Shadow |
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lexxxich
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Post by lexxxich on May 4, 2017 19:34:25 GMT
While doing certain achievement I noticed that holding enemy with Pull does not seem to count as biotic prime. Enemy I helf was tech primed by Vetra's ammo passive, then I used Throw and upon impact with another enemy, tech explosion went off.
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Post by lennybusker on May 4, 2017 19:42:02 GMT
While doing certain achievement I noticed that holding enemy with Pull does not seem to count as biotic prime. Enemy I helf was tech primed by Vetra's ammo passive, then I used Throw and upon impact with another enemy, tech explosion went off. That's how I've observed Pull working as well, they're only primed if you tap and let them levitate. One thing to test that would be to have someone Pull and hold them and then Player 2 hits them with a detonator, rather than priming them up with something else. Unrelated - just a little preview of this project that's coming into focus now. i.imgur.com/i5N8TRw.png |
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 4, 2017 19:47:29 GMT
Speaking of holding enemies with Pull --
For testing the radius of Invasion (the Salarian Operator's signature power). I thought you could do something like:
Player 1 uses Pull to hold an enemy, then walks X meters
Player 2 uses Pull to hold a different enemy, then walks X + 'some' meters away
Player 3, Salarian Operator, uses Invasion on enemy #1.
See if it spreads to enemy #2. Repeat with larger and larger distances.
You can use Shield Boost's radius (conveniently also on SalOp) to measure the distance more or less.
Tedious, yes.
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Post by lexxxich on May 4, 2017 20:45:38 GMT
Just was in a match with another Human Sentinel, and we both were trying to do tech combos, so often hit the same enemy with Energy Drain. Explosions were triggered, before either of us had any chance to use Throw. So it appears that, yes, detonating with same power as the primer but by another character is possible. |
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Post by lennybusker on May 4, 2017 21:09:50 GMT
Just was in a match with another Human Sentinel, and we both were trying to do tech combos, so often hit the same enemy with Energy Drain. Explosions were triggered, before either of us had any chance to use Throw. So it appears that, yes, detonating with same power as the primer but by another character is possible. Thanks for checking. It means I'll have some more work to do! |
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bobbyfree
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Post by bobbyfree on May 4, 2017 21:51:41 GMT
The Sacattershot thus has 2 bonuses: against shields and against armor. It still doesn't hit very hard but is very viable since you almost never have to recharge (except when you overheat). Scattershot has a bonus to shields? Thought it was just PAW, Equalizer and Shadow You're right I can't find anything else. I extended the bonus to shield to each remnant weapons but only found PAW, Equalizer and SHadow mentionned in this thread, my bad. |
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hardcoresalmon
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Post by hardcoresalmon on May 4, 2017 22:21:45 GMT
You're right I can't find anything else. I extended the bonus to shield to each remnant weapons but only found PAW, Equalizer and SHadow mentionned in this thread, my bad. Shields: 1187.500, 1187.500, 1133.450, -54.050 Health: 1900.000, 1900.000, 1853.000, -47.000 47 * 1.15 = 54.05 The Scattershot has a 15% bonus to shields as well |
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