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Post by killabkilledb on Apr 27, 2017 4:36:55 GMT
Thanks for the informative post. Posts like this should be stickied!
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Post by peddroelm on Apr 27, 2017 4:40:08 GMT
I heard the devs say the Remnant weapons are more effective vs shields, any truth to that? probably. Eventually one of the testers that actually has access to such weapons will take a closer look and tell us for sure ..
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Post by konfeta on Apr 27, 2017 5:12:04 GMT
Raptor doesn't have a no scope penalty? What about Indra?
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Post by sheepsgoboom on Apr 27, 2017 7:20:41 GMT
Can we get some numbers on the Lance weak point multiplier? Really interested in what it is. And what about weak point passives? Are they additive or multiplicative?
I would also imagine the god mode hack to be helpful for testing numbers.
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Post by hardcoresalmon on Apr 27, 2017 12:38:34 GMT
Hipfire Penalty:
all vs gold adhi with no passives
Viper X:
1900 1473 damage- 427 -scoped bodyshot 1259.2 damage - 213.8 - unscoped bodyshot
Vanquisher X:
1259.2 862 damage - 397.2 - unscoped bodyshot 67 damage - 795 -scoped bodyshot
Inferno 1:
1900 1504 damage- 396 ------scoped body shot 1137.69 damage- 366.31 ---unscoped head shot? 939.69 damage- 198 ------unscoped body shot 741.69 damage- 198 ------unscoped body shot
Widow X:
1900 591 damage- 1309 -scoped bodyshot
1900 1245.5 damage- 654.5 - unscoped bodyshot
Shadow 1:
546.4 -damage: 43.7 -scoped headshot 590.1 -damage: 43.7 -scoped headshot 628.1 -damage: 38 -scoped bodyshot 666.1 -damage: 38 -scoped bodyshot
1298.8 -damage: 21.85 -unscoped headshot 1317.8 -damage: 19 -unscoped bodyshot 1336.8 -damage: 19 -unscoped bodyshot
-All have 0.5 hipfire penalty -The shadow has a 1.15x headshot multipler -facepalm- -adhis have 1900 health on gold -Inferno has a 2.1x headshot multiplier as well
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Post by sheepsgoboom on Apr 27, 2017 13:10:19 GMT
The Shadow multi... Might as well go for only body shots and avoid the risk of missing aiming at the head.
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Post by hardcoresalmon on Apr 27, 2017 13:12:38 GMT
More testing:
EDIT: Both VS Gold adhi
Indra VI:
1127.5 Damage- 117 1194.775 Damage- 67.275 - unscoped headshot 1253.275 Damage- 58.5 - unscoped bodyshot 1311.775 Damage- 58.5 1370.275 Damage- 58.5 1428.775 Damage- 58.5 1487.275 Damage- 58.5 1545.775 Damage- 58.5 1662.775 Damage- 117 - scoped bodyshot 1797.325 Damage- 134.55 -scoped headshot
Raptor X:
1900 1774 Damage- 126 -unscoped body 1648 Damage- 126 -unscoped body 1522 Damage- 126 -scoped body 1396 Damage- 126 -scoped body 1251.09 Damage- 144.91 -scoped head 1125.09 Damage- 126 980.19 Damage- 144.9 -unscoped head
-Indra has a 0.5 HF penalty but confirmed, the raptor has none -both have a 1.15 headshot multiplier -aerial melee has 385 base damage
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Post by JRandall0308 on Apr 27, 2017 15:03:57 GMT
-BRONZE ARMOR FLAT -20 DR -UNLIKE ME3 bonus vs armor no longer amplifies the armor DR
What does this mean? *confused*
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Post by peddroelm on Apr 27, 2017 15:23:57 GMT
-BRONZE ARMOR FLAT -20 DR -UNLIKE ME3 bonus vs armor no longer amplifies the armor DR
What does this mean? *confused* first one is abot hit scan weapon flat damage loss ( DAMAGE - 20) per bullet/pellet due to armor damage reduction. Quite similar with ME3MP mechanic. second is a good thing. In ME3MP Typhoon and CSMG were advertised in description as great vs armor. The problem was that the bonus damage vs armor also applied to the amount of damage lost due to DR. The "bonused" weapons were going against higher DR .. And few people were using DR bypass tools (mods/ammo) because these weapons were advertised as ALREADY great vs armor(which wasn't actually true) : lets do the smart thing and use other things instead ..
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Post by JRandall0308 on Apr 27, 2017 15:26:06 GMT
So guns in MEA that have a bonus vs. armor... how does it work? They actually do more damage against armor, AND THEN the -20 is subtracted?
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Post by peddroelm on Apr 27, 2017 15:28:06 GMT
So guns in MEA that have a bonus vs. armor... how does it work? They actually do more damage against armor, AND THEN the -20 is subtracted? exactly . -20 on bronze. Silver and gold should have higher values .. katana Timediff: 6.962 Damage : 40.375 // (46 * (1+0.05) *1.25) - 20 = 40.375 Timediff: 0.004 Damage : 40.375 .. Timediff: 0.004 Damage : 69.125 // (46 * (1 + 0.05 + 0.5) * 1.25) - 20 = 69.125 Timediff: 0.027 Damage : 69.125 .. Timediff: 0.940 Damage : 64.525 //HS 46 * (1 + 0.05) * 1.4 * 1.25 - 20 = 64.525
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Post by hardcoresalmon on Apr 27, 2017 16:07:15 GMT
Isharay IV:
2256.25 961.25 Damage - 1295 / scoped body
2256.25 0 Damage - at least 2256.25, target died / scoped head (I presume the multiplier is 2.1x)
2256.25 1608.75 Damage - 647.5 / unscoped body
Lanat V - base damage 826
2256.25 1347.64 Damage - 908.61 / scoped body - partially charged shot?
2256.25 377.09 Damage - 1879.16 / scoped head
2256.25 604.25 Damage - 1652 / Fully charged, scoped body
2256.25 879.58 Damage - 1376.67 / half charged, scoped body
2256.25 1141.14 Damage - 1115.11 / Partly charged, scoped body
2256.25 1801.94 Damage - 454.31 / unscoped body
-Isharay and the lanat also have 0.5 HF penalty -The Lanat will charge up to 81% and seems to work on a percentage basis, when half charged it did 51% more damage -Both have a 2.1x headshot multiplier
Carnifex X:
2256.25 2036.25 Damage - 220 / body 1673.25 Damage - 363 / head
Equalizer VII:
1673.25 1608.25 Damage - 65 / body 1517.25 Damage - 91 / head
Carnifex: 1.65x HS MP Equalizer: 1.4 HS MP
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Post by peddroelm on Apr 27, 2017 16:15:49 GMT
we have conflicting reports on raptor HS mod. 1.15 hardcoresalmon or 1.4 capn233
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Post by JRandall0308 on Apr 27, 2017 16:18:26 GMT
What happens if a target has 1 armor remaining and (say) 1000 health. You use a weapon with a bonus against armor, does the damage with bonus affect just the 1 point of armor or does it 'blow through' to the health?
Ex. say the Katana would do 40.35 damage vs. armor. Does it does 1 damage to armor and 39.35 to health? Or does it do 1 damage to armor and less to health because the bonus to armor no longer applies?
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Post by peddroelm on Apr 27, 2017 16:27:21 GMT
What happens if a target has 1 armor remaining and (say) 1000 health. You use a weapon with a bonus against armor, does the damage with bonus affect just the 1 point of armor or does it 'blow through' to the health? Ex. say the Katana would do 40.35 damage vs. armor. Does it does 1 damage to armor and 39.35 to health? Or does it do 1 damage to armor and less to health because the bonus to armor no longer applies? Second option is closer to how it works in ME3 . Will need hard test numbers for andromeda .. Extra damage de-multiplied and then applied vs the next hit point pool with proper multiplier. Made more by shiled gate mechanics (ex only 10% damage "bleeds trough") .. (I believe Civ5 might have a production overflow bug similar to what you're hopping for in the first situation. ) Would test shield to health first to see what happens without the extra -DR complication (assuming no shield gate for enemies)
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Post by JRandall0308 on Apr 27, 2017 16:30:13 GMT
I wonder why they designed such a complicated system. *puzzled* I guess with computers you can do math as fast as you want. I know that in TTRPGs which is more my background I would never design anything this complicated, because nobody would be able to do the math fast enough to keep the game flowing.
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Post by hardcoresalmon on Apr 27, 2017 16:47:35 GMT
we have conflicting reports on raptor HS mod. 1.15 hardcoresalmon or 1.4 capn233 That is strange, not sure why that would be. I can test it again later to make sure.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 27, 2017 16:56:56 GMT
I wonder why they designed such a complicated system. *puzzled* I guess with computers you can do math as fast as you want. I know that in TTRPGs which is more my background I would never design anything this complicated, because nobody would be able to do the math fast enough to keep the game flowing. It's there so some cheese can sneak in eventually and people will post grand threads about why cheese is bad and some will post stingy little ones about how they did it again and no regrets.
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Post by capn233 on Apr 27, 2017 23:47:26 GMT
we have conflicting reports on raptor HS mod. 1.15 hardcoresalmon or 1.4 capn233 That is strange, not sure why that would be. I can test it again later to make sure. May be differences in weakpoint damage / bonus vs different enemy types. Like humanoid versus canine.
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Post by hardcoresalmon on Apr 28, 2017 2:38:37 GMT
Testing sniper and pistol gear, just in case:
Vanquisher:
2256.25 1381.75 Damage - 874.5 / 10%
Predator X: 2256.25 2184.75 Damage - 71.5 / 10%
Gear works on both weapons
Sidewinder X:
2256.25 2083.25 Damage - 173 /body 1797.8 Damage - 285.45 / head
Scorpion X:
1797.8 1787.8 Damage - 10 / body 1217.8 Damage - 570 / body
2256.25 2239.75 Damage - 16.5 / head 1669.75 Damage - 570 / head
Eagle:
2256.25 2186.25 Damage - 70 / body
2256.25 2158.25 Damage - 98 / head
Phalanx X:
2158.25 2015.25 Damage - 143 / body 1780.94 Damage - 234.31 / head 1546.64 Damage - 234.3 / head 1404.64 Damage - 142 / body
-Scorpion, I think like the old scorpion, will do 10 damage with initial projectile and then 570 with the blast. The projectile can get headshots and has a 1.65x mp. - The Sidewinder and The Phalanx: 1.65x HS MP - The Eagle: 1.4x HS MP
Been trying to find shield values of enemies on gold but without any success, would be so much easier with the health tables.
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Post by peddroelm on Apr 28, 2017 3:42:35 GMT
That is strange, not sure why that would be. I can test it again later to make sure. May be differences in weakpoint damage / bonus vs different enemy types. Like humanoid versus canine. then you should list char you tested with and enemy and difficulty type for every test . Edit those posts if you remember ..
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Post by capn233 on Apr 28, 2017 4:12:59 GMT
Salarian Architect I Indra III (110 dmg)
Test vs Kett Chosen (Tutorial)
At Timediff: 25.558 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.323 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.858 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 7.259 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.224 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.557 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.325 Health Damage : 154.000 <-HS At Timediff: 0.925 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 5.925 Health Damage : 154.000 <-HS At Timediff: 0.224 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.658 Health Damage : 154.000 At Timediff: 0.123 Health Damage : 154.000 At Timediff: 0.124 Health Damage : 154.000 At Timediff: 0.223 Health Damage : 154.000 At Timediff: 0.459 Health Damage : 154.000 At Timediff: 0.121 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.086 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.122 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.127 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.087 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.124 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.091 Health Damage : 110.000 At Timediff: 0.124 Health Damage : 110.000
154/110 = 1.4
This disagrees with 1.15 above, which was what I suspected would happen.
Don't know that they would necessarily bother to have multiple weakpoint bonuses per weapon, may just be modifying weak points with various enemies. For example, is Adhi is -0.25 weakpoint relative to base?
I don't have the Operator, but one thing to also test is whether or not weakpoint is really a damage taken effect and if it will add with debuffs like Invasion or whatever.
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Post by peddroelm on Apr 28, 2017 4:38:51 GMT
ATM I strongly suspect the weakening armor effect on engineer cryo weapon applies to armor DR. Ran out of time testing it this time. Will try again later..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 4:42:21 GMT
-Indra has a 0.5 HF penalty but confirmed, the raptor has none -Indra has a 0.5 HF penalty but confirmed, the raptor has none -Indra has a 0.5 HF penalty but confirmed, the raptor has none -Indra has a 0.5 HF penalty but confirmed, the raptor has none -Indra has a 0.5 HF penalty but confirmed, the raptor has none -Indra has a 0.5 HF penalty but confirmed, the raptor has none
The Turian frowned with mandibles clicking, his eyes confused as he looked down at his trusty Indra. "Into the trash with you," he said; the Indra no more with nothing but a flick of the wrist. His hand quivering over his new beauty gripping it sternly. "Hopefully this stupid dinosaur will put out."Cheers for the numbers and hard data
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Post by kalil on Apr 28, 2017 5:31:22 GMT
My name is Shepard and this is my favourite thread on BSN.
Seriously great work guys!
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