srkm00b
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Games: Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: SRKm00b
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Post by srkm00b on May 25, 2017 14:26:07 GMT
Nice! Can you test cryo to see about possible armor mitigation or debuff mechanics? I think srkm00b did a lot of cryo ammo tests while testing ET and cryo beam 6a explosion chain .. Not a lot of room left for surprises .. Cryo Ammo doesn't debuff / reduce Armor DR in any way. AFAIK, the only Ammo booster that does the UI tooltip "deal _____ bonus damage to _______" is Disruptor Ammo giving a 25% bonus to shields.
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Post by N7Mith on May 25, 2017 16:33:56 GMT
I think srkm00b did a lot of cryo ammo tests while testing ET and cryo beam 6a explosion chain .. Not a lot of room left for surprises .. Cryo Ammo doesn't debuff / reduce Armor DR in any way. AFAIK, the only Ammo booster that does the UI tooltip "deal _____ bonus damage to _______" is Disruptor Ammo giving a 25% bonus to shields. Peddro just posted Inc. Ammo dot doing 1.25x armor damage. So that's just the dot then? And it's weird cryo ammo doesn't debuff, it feels so much more effective than in 3MP
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Post by lennybusker on May 25, 2017 17:00:44 GMT
So basically, take Double Incinerate, fire it and then leave the target alone to burn to death. Good to know. I gotta disagree. Better off taking Incinerate 6A for detonation, and you're also better off detonating the target with another power AFTER they've taken some burn damage.
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SentinelBorg
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: SentinelBorg
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Post by SentinelBorg on May 26, 2017 8:55:02 GMT
So basically, take Double Incinerate, fire it and then leave the target alone to burn to death. Good to know. I gotta disagree. Better off taking Incinerate 6A for detonation, and you're also better off detonating the target with another power AFTER they've taken some burn damage. Yep, for example Overload + Incinerate can easily kill a Remnant Observer this way, because the Tech Explosion removes the Shield and so the Dot can apply.
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Post by peddroelm on May 26, 2017 18:46:09 GMT
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Post by varicite on May 27, 2017 0:48:51 GMT
So, as I understand it, Cryo ammo is pretty much trash. Well, I'm still gonna use it anyway because I'm out of Incendiary and need to rebuild my stock, lol.
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Post by lennybusker on May 27, 2017 1:22:24 GMT
So, as I understand it, Cryo ammo is pretty much trash. Well, I'm still gonna use it anyway because I'm out of Incendiary and need to rebuild my stock, lol. It still has a good use for Human Engineeer with Snap Freeze
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Post by konfeta on May 27, 2017 2:04:16 GMT
Snap Freeze applies to freezing sources other than freeze ray?
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Post by peddroelm on May 27, 2017 2:19:08 GMT
Snap Freeze applies to freezing sources other than freeze ray? cryo turret/cryo beam/cryo mmo/cryo gauntlet/cryo explosion/cryo barrel/span freeze .. snap freeze doesn't care how the target was frozen
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Post by konfeta on May 27, 2017 2:57:29 GMT
Oh, Snap Freeze only cares that the target was killed by the Freeze Ray?
Or is it a class passive in guise of a skill passive?
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Post by lennybusker on May 27, 2017 3:42:04 GMT
Oh, Snap Freeze only cares that the target was killed by the Freeze Ray? Or is it a class passive in guise of a skill passive? Yes, it's a class passive. Shattering frozen targets is an existing mechanic that Snap Freeze enhances. So it doesn't matter how you freeze them - turret, cryo beam, cryo ammo, etc. All that matters is that you're the one that shatters them.
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Post by awanger on May 27, 2017 11:51:08 GMT
I gotta disagree. Better off taking Incinerate 6A for detonation, and you're also better off detonating the target with another power AFTER they've taken some burn damage. Yep, for example Overload + Incinerate can easily kill a Remnant Observer this way, because the Tech Explosion removes the Shield and so the Dot can apply. wait is this true? i assumed overload + incinerate = tech explosion, shield gone..but the shield/shieldgate takes up the TE and so it's not burning until another power (or ammo) then applies fire to the unshielded observer? edit: no that's not right overload doesn't prime only detonates. can you explain what you mean 'cause i'm confused? the way i see it vs a shielded enemy: overload (strips shields), incinerate (hits, starts burn/fire/DOT). or overload (strips shields), shoot fire ammo which sets enemy on fire, then incinerate (w/ detonate evo) = fire explosion (not tech explosion). am i way off?
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lexxxich
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Post by lexxxich on May 27, 2017 12:32:49 GMT
Overload is not stated as a primer but it does prime for roughly the same duration as it stuns - 2-3 seconds. So releasing a detonator Incinerate right after Overload can produce tech explosion if travel time is less then 2 seconds.
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Post by awanger on May 27, 2017 16:38:24 GMT
Overload is not stated as a primer but it does prime for roughly the same duration as it stuns - 2-3 seconds. So releasing a detonator Incinerate right after Overload can produce tech explosion if travel time is less then 2 seconds. whaa? wow didn't know that at all. was this a hidden mechanic you (plural) data miners figured out? (or another "working as intended...") if so i need to read this thread more fully. edit: sorry back on track, i can't set a shielded enemy on fire right? i still need to get rid of a shield before the red bar (or armor/yellow) will get set on fire right? or is this also not true ( iirc its how 3MP worked...clearly this is a different game)
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Post by capn233 on May 27, 2017 16:54:12 GMT
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Post by bogusjuan on May 27, 2017 17:40:00 GMT
Same, pretty much pigeon holed into fast weapons for both priming and for fire stacks On another note, if I'm reading your table correctly, throw does 75% combo damage normally and swift detonation makes it do 130% combo damage? Or is it just doing 105%?
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TheThirdRace
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MEA MP Builder
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheThirdRace on May 27, 2017 18:08:53 GMT
On another note, if I'm reading your table correctly, throw does 75% combo damage normally and swift detonation makes it do 130% combo damage? Or is it just doing 105%? It's worst than that, it's multiplicative... 75% * (1 + 0.3) = 97.5%...
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To troll or not to pug, that's the question
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Post by N7Mith on May 27, 2017 22:06:07 GMT
Overload is not stated as a primer but it does prime for roughly the same duration as it stuns - 2-3 seconds. So releasing a detonator Incinerate right after Overload can produce tech explosion if travel time is less then 2 seconds. For long range do Incinerate - Overload. Aim for a curve with incinerate and overload hits first.
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Post by lennybusker on May 27, 2017 23:07:45 GMT
Overload is not stated as a primer but it does prime for roughly the same duration as it stuns - 2-3 seconds. So releasing a detonator Incinerate right after Overload can produce tech explosion if travel time is less then 2 seconds. whaa? wow didn't know that at all. was this a hidden mechanic you (plural) data miners figured out? (or another "working as intended...") if so i need to read this thread more fully. edit: sorry back on track, i can't set a shielded enemy on fire right? i still need to get rid of a shield before the red bar (or armor/yellow) will get set on fire right? or is this also not true ( iirc its how 3MP worked...clearly this is a different game) If they have any shields left after overload, the incinerate will set off a tech combo but won't burn them. But with Overload maxed out you'll easily take their entire shield out.
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Post by konfeta on May 28, 2017 15:13:32 GMT
How does the Cloak recharge bonus work? Is there a formula for it? Does taking duration increase help you use more of the early-break recharge bonus?
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Post by peddroelm on May 29, 2017 8:00:43 GMT
How does the Cloak recharge bonus work? Is there a formula for it? Does taking duration increase help you use more of the early-break recharge bonus? you can check that in game. no need of special tools for that
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SentinelBorg
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: SentinelBorg
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Post by SentinelBorg on May 29, 2017 9:23:45 GMT
whaa? wow didn't know that at all. was this a hidden mechanic you (plural) data miners figured out? (or another "working as intended...") if so i need to read this thread more fully. edit: sorry back on track, i can't set a shielded enemy on fire right? i still need to get rid of a shield before the red bar (or armor/yellow) will get set on fire right? or is this also not true ( iirc its how 3MP worked...clearly this is a different game) If they have any shields left after overload, the incinerate will set off a tech combo but won't burn them. But with Overload maxed out you'll easily take their entire shield out. Isn't the DOT applied after the Tech Explosion? At least it looks like that for me. I only got Overload at 3, so it only removes likes 40% of the shield. But then the Tech Explosion hits, removes the shield and with around 60% health left the Observer ticks down from that to death. I thought that this is because of the Incinerate burn or could it be the Tech Explosion static field? Next time I will just take a look what the games states about what killed the Observer. ^^
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Post by peddroelm on May 29, 2017 11:05:29 GMT
"Hunted: In game/powers/cryobeam/imp_looping_cryobeam.ebx the non AoE is damage * 0.2, the AoE is damage * 0.25 (per tick damage)"
1.07 cryo beam 5B "radius" calculates damage per tick as /4 instead of /5 (sustained ability that ticks 5 times per second). This RESULTS IN A HIDDEN (1 / 4) / (1 / 5) = * 1.25 to all cryo beam damage vs single target multiplier. (on top of the ability being able to hit more targets). Probably a typo - they might've meant to dilute the damage over a larger area instead of giving extra AOE and EXTRA DAMAGE.
Anyway this makes it possible (easier/more likely) for the human engineer to 1-2 punch pretty much any clump of (even shielded enemies) using snap freeze domino effect without boosters. (it is not OP - it uses 2 time consuming charge up/sustained abilities that can be easily be stagger canceled, + very fragile class, especially without full fitness tree) Charged up overload to remove shields to primary and CC group. Sustain Cryo Beam vs CC-ed group to remove rest of shields, freeze solid at least 2 and maybe even start the snap freeze chain by itself. If not, fallow up with finishing blow to frozen redbar from weapon. High damage per shot weapon might work best for the short time window before overload becomes available again for AOE damage and CC ..
example build cryo beam: 4a damage, 5a radius and WAY MORE DAMAGE, 6a SNAP FREEZE CHAIN turret : 4a , 5b (6m cooldown bonus aura) Changed my mind. Aura range is pathetic pins you in place. Overload: 4a damage, 5b bonus vs shield multiplier, 6b maximum charge Offensive Tech:4a power damage, 5a vs shield multiplier, 6a ET debuff // we need CryoBeam to remove remaining shields quickly to have time to freeze targets max fitness 4b 5a 6a
Damage numbers with Engineering Damage gear but no Engineering Damage booster.
Cryo beam damage per tick (150 / 4) * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.3) = 97.5 cryo beam vs health (150 / 4) * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.3) * 1.35 = 131.625 vs health with ET
136.500 // vs shields *1.4 passive 184.275 // *1.4 * 1.35 ET
Maximum cryo beam damage vs health 14 ticks under 3 seconds: (150 / 4) * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.3) * (1 + (13 * 1.35)) = 1808.625
Overload Damage Numbers: 200 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 0.5 + 0.3) = 480 vs health; 480 * (1 + 1.25 + 0.6 + 0.4) = 1560 vs shields // non charged impact
Chain Overload: 300 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 0.5 + 0.3) = 720 vs health; 720 * (1 + 1.25 + 0.6 + 0.4) = 2340 vs shields// charged impact 100 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 0.5 + 0.3 + 0.5) = 290 vs health; 290 * (1 + 1.25 + 0.6 + 0.4) = 942.5 vs shields //chain
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Post by lennybusker on May 29, 2017 11:22:31 GMT
If they have any shields left after overload, the incinerate will set off a tech combo but won't burn them. But with Overload maxed out you'll easily take their entire shield out. Isn't the DOT applied after the Tech Explosion? At least it looks like that for me. I only got Overload at 3, so it only removes likes 40% of the shield. But then the Tech Explosion hits, removes the shield and with around 60% health left the Observer ticks down from that to death. I thought that this is because of the Incinerate burn or could it be the Tech Explosion static field? Next time I will just take a look what the games states about what killed the Observer. ^^ Well you should be able to see it visually, either they're on fire or not. In my experience though if they have any shields when Incinerate hits the burning DOT does not stick. But there might be an edge case where the combo clears shields- Incinerate is one of those detonators that lands after the combo explosion. I just looked through my logs and don't have any cases of that happening, but I wasn't trying for it either.
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SentinelBorg
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: SentinelBorg
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Post by SentinelBorg on May 29, 2017 20:08:33 GMT
Isn't the DOT applied after the Tech Explosion? At least it looks like that for me. I only got Overload at 3, so it only removes likes 40% of the shield. But then the Tech Explosion hits, removes the shield and with around 60% health left the Observer ticks down from that to death. I thought that this is because of the Incinerate burn or could it be the Tech Explosion static field? Next time I will just take a look what the games states about what killed the Observer. ^^ Well you should be able to see it visually, either they're on fire or not. In my experience though if they have any shields when Incinerate hits the burning DOT does not stick. But there might be an edge case where the combo clears shields- Incinerate is one of those detonators that lands after the combo explosion. I just looked through my logs and don't have any cases of that happening, but I wasn't trying for it either. Just checked it, worked as I remembered. Overload removes around 50% of the Oberserver's shields, then the Tech Explosion from Incinerate kills the shields and after that the Oberserver started to burn and died from the Incinerate DoT.
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