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Post by hanskey on Jun 7, 2017 15:24:44 GMT
Any idea when Hello_Isaac might be updating the weapons stat sheet, for 1.08 changes? they would have to release 1.08 first Doh!!  I'm used to patch notes being out after the patch so I keep forgetting that 1.08 hasn't been released yet. At the same time, I notice his conf file scan seems to be for 1.06 and show the "S" weapons as having the exact same stats as the Common version except for damage. However, I've seen a few claims that the "S" versions have better accuracy and other improvements. So, that was my stealth way of also trying to see if the weapons stat sheet MIGHT be out-of-date right now. Any idea how current that data is? I'm asking because they are prone to stealth changes for weapon stats, such as near-universal weight increase that we only found out about from Hello_Isaac's stats sheets, that occurred between the delivery of Path 1.06 and Patch 1.07. |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 7, 2017 15:32:20 GMT
I know he took a very close look at the S weapon stats after their release
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Post by hanskey on Jun 7, 2017 15:45:08 GMT
Cool. Thank you Peddro.
To reiterate, my concern is that Patch Notes have never yet been fully accurate about non-stealth balance changes and they stealth balance change (again and again, etc.) and then all the helpful tools become irrelevant.
Obviously, the only way we know about stealth changes are the config files ...
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TheThirdRace
N3
MEA MP Builder
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TheThirdRace
Posts: 268 Likes: 701
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MEA MP Builder
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheThirdRace on Jun 7, 2017 20:40:53 GMT
Obviously, the only way we know about stealth changes are the config files ... Actually, this isn't true either. Some applications will push server side data when the client connects so the config files don't necessarily have the right data either. The data can reside in memory without being saved anywhere. The only way to know how things work and what are the true values is to test it in game like peddroelm and the rest do. |
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lennybusker
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by lennybusker on Jun 7, 2017 20:45:11 GMT
Yes. That's why I use the analogy of datamining the files is like drawing up plans to go to the moon, but until you strap your ass into the rocket and blast off (go find the actual numbers in game), you don't know if you've got it right.
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Post by hanskey on Jun 7, 2017 20:51:16 GMT
u guys be depressing the shit out of me
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JRandall0308
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 7, 2017 20:55:08 GMT
I hate to say but in theory shouldn't EVERYTHING be retested after EVERY patch?
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Post by capn233 on Jun 8, 2017 0:45:18 GMT
I hate to say but in theory shouldn't EVERYTHING be retested after EVERY patch? That isn't exactly time efficient. Mostly something should be retested if there is a note in the patch log, or somebody has reason to believe whatever it is has changed because in game performance is not matching the posted theorycrafting. My timing on the enemy damage values was so great that I get to redo all of them for 1.08 soon. The patch notes on shield gate changes were actually the most interesting thing to me though. Really the implementation seems to demonstrate that they weren't entirely clear on the purpose of this mechanic in the first place. |
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Post by JRandall0308 on Jun 8, 2017 1:38:47 GMT
It does seem like a lot of MEA mechanics were made by someone who had one conversation with an ME3 dev and then coded based on what he vaguely remembered.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:29:11 GMT
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These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
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b00g13man
Mass Effect Trilogy, Jade Empire
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 8, 2017 5:10:44 GMT
It does seem like a lot of MEA mechanics were made by someone who had one conversation with an ME3 dev and then coded based on what he vaguely remembered. I thought the same thing. |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 9, 2017 7:49:00 GMT
1.08 Angaran Firaan 550 BASE melee damage (avenger strike has 500 base) biotic fist 400 Base melee damage (same as omniblade) Reegar test results: resembles somewhat (copy paste edit ?) remnant beam weapons mechanics wise (think PAW with fancy graphics and no ammo recharge function) doesn't fire multiple pellets as the abomination known as reegar in ME3MP but a single bullet *1 multipliers vs health and armor; *1.15 vs shields as with the ME3MP version it is hard to tell where the impact of the "bullet" lands due to the fancy graphical effects. Until proven otherwise will go with "pinpoint accurate BUT DOESN'T BENEFIT FROM HITTING WEAKSPOTS AT ALL" Doesn't self activate ET by itself but BENEFITS from ET debuff (similar to having ammo equipped) Has some sort of built in piercing module (with shotgun receiver X will do *1 damage to shots through obstacles). Without the reciver it will not score multihits (not enough penetration distance ?). First shot and last shot of salvo often get extra hit for *0.39 or *0.59 damage (???) EDIT: more tests. No smart choke . Empty full clip (fire button kept down) at near max range central dot aimed on chosen leg - no misses . Move targeting central dot 2 pixels near target leg .. all misses . Pinpoint accurate. Since it cannot get weakspot bonuses - aim center mass and call it a day . Charged Overload example vs health overload 0.25 0.35 built in 0.5 for chain ; 0.5 PD ; 0.3 gear ; 6a 0.5 PD for chains HP, 4685859, 107984, 9548A690, 1520.000, 1520.000, 800.000, -720.000 // primary 300 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 0.5 + 0.3) = 720 HP, 4686031, 172, 8B07A1A0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 650.000, -870.000 // 300 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 0.5 + 0.3 + 0.5) = 870 HP, 4686203, 172, 90E0EEA0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 650.000, -870.000 they did not "fix" cryo beam 5b range Cryo beam damage per tick (150 / 4) * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.3) = 97.5 cryo beam vs health (150 / 4) * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.3) * 1.35 = 131.625 vs health with ET They did not fix RAGE 4b or the hidden Mercenary Melee damage bonus 0.33 MD shotgun add on 0.15 jurgenant gear 740 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.33 + 0.15) = 1465.2 // mercenary still has hidden 0.5 MD bonus rage 1: 0.25 MD while enraged 1650.200 // rage on 740 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.33 + 0.15 + 0.25) = 1650.2 rage 3: 0.15 MD passive 1576.200 // 740 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.33 + 0.15 + 0.15) = 1576.2 rage 4b: 0.25 MD passive and 0.0625 during rage 1761.200 // 740 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.33 + 0.15 + 0.15 + 0.25) = 1761.2 1992.450 // rage on 740 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.33 + 0.15 + 0.15 + 0.25 + (0.25 + 0.0625)) = 1992.45 // still 6.25% shit some test numbers juggernaut shield 0.15 melee
632.500 melee ; ; 550 * 1.15 = 632.5
700.000 teleport hit // 500 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.25) = 700
SH, 1944843, 31, 9CA87478, 660.000, 556.500, 453.000, -103.500 // 90 * 1.15 = 103.5
SH, 1944875, 32, 9CA87478, 660.000, 453.000, 349.500, -103.500
SH, 2030562, 12969, 9CA87478, 660.000, 660.000, 624.810, -35.190 // first shot built in piercing ?
SH, 2030593, 31, 9CA87478, 660.000, 624.810, 521.310, -103.500
SH, 2030656, 63, 9CA87478, 660.000, 521.310, 417.810, -103.500
SH, 2030765, 109, 9CA87478, 660.000, 417.810, 314.310, -103.500
SH, 2030859, 94, 9CA87478, 660.000, 314.310, 210.810, -103.500
SH, 2030890, 31, 9CA87478, 660.000, 210.810, 175.620, -35.190 // last shot
OB, 3680890, 3734, 19682D10, 525.000, 187.500, 300.000, 112.500
OB, 3680953, 63, 19682D10, 525.000, 75.000, 187.500, 112.500 // 90 * (1 + 0.17 + 0.08) =
112.5
first shot
HP, 3884203, 8891, 90D84B70, 783.750, 783.750, 717.375, -66.375
HP, 3884234, 31, 90D84B70, 783.750, 717.375, 604.875, -112.500
first shot and last shot
HP, 3966390, 4844, 9584FF30, 783.750, 783.750, 717.375, -66.375 // first shot
HP, 3966406, 16, 9584FF30, 783.750, 783.750, 671.250, -112.500
HP, 3966468, 62, 9584FF30, 783.750, 783.750, 671.250, -112.500
HP, 3966562, 94, 9584FF30, 783.750, 783.750, 671.250, -112.500
HP, 3966640, 78, 9584FF30, 783.750, 783.750, 671.250, -112.500
HP, 3966687, 47, 9584FF30, 783.750, 783.750, 717.375, -66.375 // last shot
HP, 4099656, 31, 8C528120, 783.750, 783.750, 631.875, -151.875 // after overload
HP, 4099734, 78, 8C528120, 783.750, 783.750, 631.875, -151.875 // 90 * (1 + 0.17 + 0.08) * 1.35 =151.875
HP, 4099828, 94, 8C528120, 783.750, 783.750, 631.875, -151.875
HP, 4193406, 9438, 8BB2D110, 783.750, 783.750, 686.250, -97.500 // cry without ET ?
HP, 4193578, 172, 8BB2D110, 783.750, 783.750, 652.125, -131.625 // cryo beam eith ET
HP, 4194406, 828, 8BB2D110, 783.750, 783.750, 652.125, -131.625
HP, 4194609, 203, 8BB2D110, 783.750, 783.750, 652.125, -131.625
HP, 4196656, 2047, 8BB2D110, 783.750, 783.750, 694.144, -89.606
HP, 4196687, 31, 8BB2D110, 783.750, 783.750, 631.875, -151.875 // reegar with ET
drop the piercing
HP, 4425109, 7922, 96561790, 783.750, 783.750, 717.375, -66.375 // 90 * 0.59 * (1 + 0.17 + 0.08) = 66.375
HP, 4425125, 16, 96561790, 783.750, 783.750, 671.250, -112.500
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These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
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b00g13man
Mass Effect Trilogy, Jade Empire
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 9, 2017 8:42:09 GMT
1.08 Angaran Firaan 550 BASE melee damage (avenger strike has 500 base) biotic fist 400 Base melee damage (same as omniblade) I knew Biotic Punch felt like it was doing decent damage. Sweet. They did confirm the Firaan had been buffed in the stream, but didn't give details there. 550 is significant when you consider the double damage vs armor. |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 9, 2017 9:03:10 GMT
enemy shield gate mechanics
495/1152/1995
Viper X 427 0.7
0.21 WD weapon addon ; 0.1 WD gear
SH, 11026062, 18922, 97E444B8, 660.000, 660.000, 0.000, -660.000 // viper HS
HP, 11026062, 0, 97E43DA0, 825.000, 825.000, 805.323, -19.677
559.370 // 427 * (1 + 0.21 + 0.1) = 559.37 ok non HS
427 * (1 + 0.21 + 0.1) * (1.4 + 0.7) = 1174.677 // 660 + 495 + 19.67700 = 1174.677 // HS OK
So the listed shield gate numbers are indeed extra hitpoints granted to the target for the duration of the shieldgate, explains why shotguns struggle with shieldgate in Andromeda. Hurts slow fire shotguns the most. Also hurts non-sniper (low weakspot modifier) rifle single shot accurate weapons pretty badly (ushior/ krusader) ..
For overload/energy drain builds you need to calculate your build's shield precisely to be able to 1 shot the enemy shields (and trigger the shieldgate) with the power to be able to fallow up with single HS kill (after shield-gate expires).
/////////
same test with carniflex X
503.040 // 384 * (1 + 0.21 + 0.1) = 503.04
SH, 12063250, 4610, 97E444B8, 660.000, 156.960, 0.000, -156.960
HP, 12063265, 15, 97E43DA0, 825.000, 825.000, 646.944, -178.056
384 * (1 + 0.21 + 0.1) * (1.4 + 0.25) = 830.016
156.96 + 495 + 178.056 = 830.016 // OK
//////////////////////
lance shieldgate test
HP, 12595875, 9704, 97E43DA0, 825.000, 825.000, 281.250, -543.750
SH, 12649156, 11641, 97E444B8, 660.000, 5.500, 0.000, -5.500
HP, 12649171, 15, 97E43DA0, 825.000, 825.000, 781.750, -43.250
5.5 + 495 + 43.25 = 543.75 OK
////////////////
and shotgun example ruzad X vs bronze
0.1 WD gear; 0.17 WD add-on X
SH, 21519625, 3110, 91E19CC8, 660.000, 55.000, 54.000, -1.000
SH, 21519656, 31, 91E19CC8, 660.000, 54.000, 0.000, -54.000
HP, 21519656, 0, 91E195B0, 825.000, 825.000, 554.850, -270.150 // third pellet (2 pellets fully absorbed by 54 shield + 495 bronze gate)
HP, 21519687, 31, 91E195B0, 825.000, 825.000, 551.950, -273.050 // 4-th pellet
HP, 21519703, 16, 91E195B0, 825.000, 825.000, 551.950, -273.050 // 5-th pellet
215 * (1 + 0.17 + 0.1) = 273.05
54 - (273.05 * 3) + 495 = -270.15
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Post by misguidedworm7 on Jun 9, 2017 10:44:37 GMT
The reegar appears to have lock on/ homing effects, linking it's damage to the enemy in your sight regardless of the hitboxes and precise point of aim, notably if you point it anywhere at the proximity of a hydra the arcs will always link to the targeting lasers.
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 9, 2017 11:03:58 GMT
The reegar appears to have lock on/ homing effects, linking it's damage to the enemy in your sight regardless of the hitboxes and precise point of aim, notably if you point it anywhere at the proximity of a hydra the arcs will always link to the targeting lasers. EDIT: more tests. No smart choke . Empty full clip at near max range aimed on chosen leg - no misses . Move targeting central dot 2 pixels near target leg .. all misses . Pinpoint accurate. Since it cannot get weakspot bonuses - aim center mass and call it a day . |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 9, 2017 11:22:11 GMT
patch notes
Overload
Rank 6: Maximum Charge now grants +30% to all Overload damage, not just chain damage. LIES !!!
Charged Overload example vs health
overload 0.25 0.35 built in 0.5 for chain ; 0.5 PD ; 0.3 gear ; 6a 0.5 PD for chains
HP, 4685859, 107984, 9548A690, 1520.000, 1520.000, 800.000, -720.000 // primary 300 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 0.5 + 0.3) = 720
HP, 4686031, 172, 8B07A1A0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 650.000, -870.000 // 300 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 0.5 + 0.3 + 0.5) = 870
HP, 4686203, 172, 90E0EEA0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 650.000, -870.000
the extra 50% (it us 50% not 30%, only applied to the extra chains not vs the main target. The funny effect is now chains with 6b will do more damage than the main hit ..) same as before 1.08
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WopGnop
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: WopGnop
Posts: 139 Likes: 224
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wopgnop
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by WopGnop on Jun 9, 2017 13:58:30 GMT
patch notes Overload
Rank 6: Maximum Charge now grants +30% to all Overload damage, not just chain damage. LIES !!! The real truth can't hide from peddro  Bioware ye be warned!  |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 9, 2017 17:39:12 GMT
a retest that vs shield multiplier of remnant weapons and vs shields from disruptor ammo are still multiplicative equalizer VII 65 *1.15 vs shields ; disruptor 1 0.025 and * 1.25 vs shields
0.1 gear ; 0.21 barrel ; 0.08 passive
65 * (1 + 0.1 + 0.21 + 0.08) * 1.15
SH, 1469355468, 7078, 8D1DE2B8, 825.000, 825.000, 721.098, -103.902 // 65 * (1 + 0.1 + 0.21 + 0.08) * 1.15 = 103.9025
SH, 1469355656, 188, 8D1DE2B8, 825.000, 721.098, 617.195, -103.902
SH, 1469544296, 328, 93B6C2D8, 825.000, 388.694, 256.479, -132.214 // 65 * (1 + 0.1 + 0.21 + 0.08 + 0.025) * 1.15 * 1.25 =132.214
SH, 1469546265, 1969, 93B6C2D8, 825.000, 256.479, 124.265, -132.214
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Evil
N3
Lurkin' since 24/02/2011
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Evil Mastered
PSN: Evil_Rurouni
Prime Posts: 2400
Prime Likes: 298
Posts: 464 Likes: 1,050
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Lurkin' since 24/02/2011
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August 2016
evil
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Evil Mastered
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Post by Evil on Jun 9, 2017 23:09:58 GMT
they did not "fix" cryo beam 5b range They did not fix RAGE 4b or the hidden Mercenary Melee damage bonus. Are cryo beam 5b range and rage 4b completely broken, as in give zero benefit, or just buggy/glitched/less good than advertised? First I've heard of those 2 having problems. Probably because I've not had a reason to try them prior to 1.08 given what the alternatives offered.  I specced my KroGuard for max headbutting with 4b last night in a bout of patch inspired bloodlust. Time to buy a respec card? |
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Post by misguidedworm7 on Jun 10, 2017 0:10:17 GMT
Are cryo beam 5b range and rage 4b completely broken, as in give zero benefit, or just buggy/glitched/less good than advertised? First I've heard of those 2 having problems. Probably because I've not had a reason to try them prior to 1.08 given what the alternatives offered. I specced my KroGuard for max headbutting with 4b last night in a bout of patch inspired bloodlust. Time to buy a respec card? Cryobeam increases the damage by a significant amount, hitting an additional time each second for something like 20% more damage Rage 4b inreases the 25% rage melee damage by 25%, for a grand 31.25%, so only gives 6.25% rage melee damage overall. It does what it technically says it does, but not what you would interpret. The normal 25% is fine, so it isn't that bad with new base melee boost |
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Post by bogusjuan on Jun 11, 2017 0:32:01 GMT
So how exactly does auxiliary drain's shield restoration work? It says delayed, what is the delay and is it all at once?
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 12, 2017 8:46:03 GMT
Also do you know what the total damage would look like vs armor assuming you specced for damage, armor and shredder, then had munitions training specced for power damage in rank 4, + the +30% combat damage equipment? It certainly feels like it's probably 6000+ damage easily. 250 Main 85 Shrapnel 100 DOT over 8s 40% Flak 3 50% Flak 4A 40% Munitions Training 4B 30% Enhanced Munitions Equipment 160% Total Power Damage Bonus 75% Armor Flak 5A -30% Shrapnel vs Armor 250 * (1+.4+.5+.4+.3) * (1+.75) = 1137.5 Initial Flak Hit85 * (1+.4+.5+.4+.3) * (1+.75-.3) = 309.4 each Flak * 8 = 2475.2 Shrapnel Damage100 * (1+.4+.5+.4+.3) * (1+.75) * 8s = 3640 Shredder DOTTOTAL DAMAGE: 7252.7 vs ArmorYou're not ALWAYS going to get 8 Shrapnel hits. Sometimes it's more like 5 hits, sometimes it's 10. The ~2k DOT damage you quoted me on was against HP. Using this setup it's actually just a hair over 2k. This is why you can just Flak mooks and move on. Also worth noting is the shrapnel damage vs HP. Dpes ~1750 damage if you get 8 Flak hits. That's why sometimes you don't even need a DOT to finish them off, just the Shrapnel kills them if they get hit with the main projectile also. Most mooks have around 2-2.3k hp. Mid level Outlaws (all the armor guys) have ~4.7k hp. That's what makes this build so strong against Outlaws. The DOT from Shredder alone does ~80% damage against the mid level Armor. all of the above still accurate to the letter leveled up my mercenary this weekend projectile has ballistic trajectory (travel time can cause it to miss vs moving targets and height drop). Aim above (ahead of moving) targets. Or get closer. the first DOT tick lands 1 second after the impact damage. Some minor observations for what I consider "optimal use". Where do I aim this thing ? Aiming near the target: -weakens or eliminates a big chunk of the impact damage. Impact damage 250 base vs average flak base damage 250 / (85 * 0.75) = 3.9215; ~ 4 flak hits -less than the maximum of flak hits to target and the one that hit will do low to *0.5 damage. -a single flak will apply the full DOT - but healthy enemies under DOT still shoot you for full damage for a long time. Ideally aim for center mass flak hit for every target to down them very fast (impact damage & high number of flak hits). If target is standing behind cover, nulifier with shield facing you - you won't score a lot of flak hits. (flank when possible ) . While flak cannon doesn't bypass the enemy shield-gate it doesn't suffer terribly from it either unless you hit it with the impact damage (lose 2-3 flaks to it tops). |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 12, 2017 9:08:48 GMT
salarian infiltrator
valiant 1 base 550
0.08 WD 0.1 WD gear 0.21 WD add-on
0.9 cloak
0.3 technical synergy after power
//////////////
HP, 9659953, 13375, 9365B990, 2256.250, 2256.250, 1491.750, -764.500 // 550 * (1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + 0.21) = 764.5
after sticky
HP, 9664750, 4797, 9365B990, 2256.250, 1491.750, 562.250, -929.500 // 550 * (1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + 0.21 + 0.3) =929.5
after ED
HP, 9717453, 2532, 919A74E0, 2256.250, 1836.250, 906.750, -929.500
after TC
HP, 9802312, 24859, 97A28810, 2375.000, 2375.000, 950.500, -1424.500 // 550 * (1 + 0.08 + 0.1 + 0.21 + 0.3 + 0.9) = 1424.5
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Post by konfeta on Jun 12, 2017 16:15:20 GMT
Does the anti-armor upgrade affect the shredder DoT?
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 12, 2017 16:18:15 GMT
Does the anti-armor upgrade affect the shredder DoT? yes - written clear as day in the post I was quoting 100 * (1+.4+.5+.4+.3) * (1+.75) * 8s = 3640 total Shredder DOT vs armor with the *1.75 vs armor evolution |
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