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Post by bshep on Sept 2, 2018 1:59:03 GMT
The concept of a paid demo eludes me. Still remember when demos were there for you to have a taste of what the complete product would be.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 2, 2018 2:24:43 GMT
The concept of a paid demo eludes me. Still remember when demos were there for you to have a taste of what the complete product would be. Well... that's exactly what it's going to be? It's not a beta, they've already told us so, so it is a demonstration of what game will be come February 22nd - so: a demo in short. I also don't recall demos being free as some sort of unbreakable rule, even if it was a common practice at some point? And I don't want to make any far-fetching speculations, but Origin Access DOES have periods when it has free trials for folks to try the service - last in June 2018. No way of saying when they're going to announce next free EA Access trials...
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Post by biggydx on Sept 2, 2018 3:54:12 GMT
The concept of a paid demo eludes me. Still remember when demos were there for you to have a taste of what the complete product would be. Well... that's exactly what it's going to be? It's not a beta, they've already told us so, so it is a demonstration of what game will be come February 22nd - so: a demo in short. I also don't recall demos being free as some sort of unbreakable rule, even if it was a common practice at some point? And I don't want to make any far-fetching speculations, but Origin Access DOES have periods when it has free trials for folks to try the service - last in June 2018. No way of saying when they're going to announce next free EA Access trials... I remember the old OXM and Playstation magazines that you would buy and they would come with an assortment of demos on the game disk
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 3:56:10 GMT
Well... that's exactly what it's going to be? It's not a beta, they've already told us so, so it is a demonstration of what game will be come February 22nd - so: a demo in short. I also don't recall demos being free as some sort of unbreakable rule, even if it was a common practice at some point? And I don't want to make any far-fetching speculations, but Origin Access DOES have periods when it has free trials for folks to try the service - last in June 2018. No way of saying when they're going to announce next free EA Access trials... I remember the old OXM and Playstation magazines that you would buy and they would come with an assortment of demos on the game disk Even the PC mags did that.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 2, 2018 3:59:39 GMT
I remember the old OXM and Playstation magazines that you would buy and they would come with an assortment of demos on the game disk Even the PC mags did that. And you still had to buy the mag....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 4:02:05 GMT
Even the PC mags did that. And you still had to buy the mag.... So? You were paying for the mag not the demos
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Post by captnjoe on Sept 2, 2018 4:16:55 GMT
Both Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 had demos. Free download, no pre-order, no magazine purchase. Just free.
May have been PC only. But I know I had both.
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Post by river82 on Sept 2, 2018 4:39:30 GMT
Both Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 had demos. Free download, no pre-order, no magazine purchase. Just free. May have been PC only. But I know I had both. As it should be. I'm currently playing the Valkyria Chronicles 4 demo on PS4. Free download from the playstation store. Free cause it's a demo.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 2, 2018 4:44:03 GMT
And you still had to buy the mag.... So? You were paying for the mag not the demos You still had to pay for something - a very specific mag in fact - in order to play the demo. So it’s only „free” in a sense that you were tricked info thinking that about something that was clearly a marketing gimmick that brought money to both game devs/publishers and mags. Really, the difference between then and now is that the middleman - the magazine - was cut, while publishers now try to encourage people to use their own platforms of distribution. Can’t say I miss how things were before. I usually bought software/game magazines for a CD but - in hindsight - the content was rarely useful (not the purpose of demos after all...) and over here such mags were pretty darn expensive anyhow. Way more than a price of a monthly sub for that matter.
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Post by biggydx on Sept 2, 2018 4:57:20 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you still have to pay for each respective console platforms online service (ie. Xbox Live and PSN) in order to access and download demos?
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Post by river82 on Sept 2, 2018 5:18:11 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you still have to pay for each respective console platforms online service (ie. Xbox Live and PSN) in order to access and download demos? You are incorrect. PSN and Xbox Live are free, PSN plus and XBox live gold are subscription services mainly for online multiplayer games.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 2, 2018 5:47:54 GMT
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Post by melbella on Sept 2, 2018 6:07:57 GMT
So? You were paying for the mag not the demos You still had to pay for something - a very specific mag in fact - in order to play the demo. So it’s only „free” in a sense that you were tricked info thinking that about something that was clearly a marketing gimmick that brought money to both game devs/publishers and mags.
Not always. I remember requesting demos for some games and getting them that way, in the mail. No purchase required. But, the disks that came in the magazines weren't just for a single game. Sometimes they would have demos for a dozen or more games at once. I'm sure I still have some of them squirreled away somewhere.....
They should just call this "demo" what it really is: early access. No one would have a problem with that. I'm still on the fence about the game itself, but I'd sure rather pay 4.99 or whatever the Origin Access monthly fee is now to see 1. if I like the game and 2. if it will even play on my computer, than buy the full version and have the possible hassle of a return/refund. That's why I did early access for MEA (more for 2 than for 1 though) and then cancelled the access after a month since I bought the game.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 2, 2018 7:12:08 GMT
You still had to pay for something - a very specific mag in fact - in order to play the demo. So it’s only „free” in a sense that you were tricked info thinking that about something that was clearly a marketing gimmick that brought money to both game devs/publishers and mags. Not always. I remember requesting demos for some games and getting them that way, in the mail. No purchase required. But, the disks that came in the magazines weren't just for a single game. Sometimes they would have demos for a dozen or more games at once. I'm sure I still have some of them squirreled away somewhere.....
They should just call this "demo" what it really is: early access. No one would have a problem with that. I'm still on the fence about the game itself, but I'd sure rather pay 4.99 or whatever the Origin Access monthly fee is now to see 1. if I like the game and 2. if it will even play on my computer, than buy the full version and have the possible hassle of a return/refund. That's why I did early access for MEA (more for 2 than for 1 though) and then cancelled the access after a month since I bought the game.
Whether it's for a single game is not really that important - you still had to buy a specific thing to get to the demo(s) you wanted, at least when it comes to those coming with magazines (nevermind that if you get EA Access account, you'll also get a monthly access to a library of full games). From my perspective, the fact that it's not done how it used to is simply a moot point. Times have changed and so are the ways developers/publishers let people try their games, so sticking to what demo was all those years ago seems to be redundant. Also - there will be early access, starting February 15th (IRC) for EA Access Premier. And Early Access means early access to the full game. The fact that they call it a demo means that what we'd get on Feb 1st will not be that. Which, btw. is exactly what demo is from standpoint of the definition used for software - what you get to test is only a part of the product, as opposed to trial (access to the full product for a limited time) or early access.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 2, 2018 8:49:04 GMT
Yep, when Bioware says "choice and consequence" with Anthem it seems like it just affects character interactions. That's where everything seems to be at. When they were advertising exploration within Fort Tarsis, they immediately said "you may even encounter shadowy figures with questionable characters". Not exactly why I go exploring but *shrugs*. Maybe if I explore hard and deep enough, I'll find a joyful merchant selling exotic looking gear. Or possibly a dour former politician that spins machiavellian yarns. I think there's a possibility that we could see Tarsis reflect our play, over time, better than prior games. Like you know how Skyhold still had a broken wall in the Map Room corridor by the end of the game...
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 2, 2018 8:53:18 GMT
I think there's a possibility that we could see Tarsis reflect our play, over time, better than prior games. Like you know how Skyhold still had a broken wall in the Map Room corridor by the end of the game... God that drove me nuts haha. I have fires, feasts, court jesters, and throngs of guests by the end but one friggin wall can't be fixed...sheesh
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 2, 2018 9:05:13 GMT
Yep, when Bioware says "choice and consequence" with Anthem it seems like it just affects character interactions. That's where everything seems to be at. When they were advertising exploration within Fort Tarsis, they immediately said "you may even encounter shadowy figures with questionable characters". Not exactly why I go exploring but *shrugs*. Maybe if I explore hard and deep enough, I'll find a joyful merchant selling exotic looking gear. Or possibly a dour former politician that spins machiavellian yarns. I think there's a possibility that we could see Tarsis reflect our play, over time, better than prior games. Like you know how Skyhold still had a broken wall in the Map Room corridor by the end of the game... I mentioned some time ago that if we get to see Skyhold in DA4 and, say, we see maybe that it's getting damaged in some way, I want to see a scene of some poor worker finally patching up that wall, only for the whole castle to crumble around them and leaving just that fixed wall behind
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 2, 2018 14:45:57 GMT
Yep, when Bioware says "choice and consequence" with Anthem it seems like it just affects character interactions. That's where everything seems to be at. When they were advertising exploration within Fort Tarsis, they immediately said "you may even encounter shadowy figures with questionable characters". Not exactly why I go exploring but *shrugs*. Maybe if I explore hard and deep enough, I'll find a joyful merchant selling exotic looking gear. Or possibly a dour former politician that spins machiavellian yarns. I think there's a possibility that we could see Tarsis reflect our play, over time, better than prior games. Like you know how Skyhold still had a broken wall in the Map Room corridor by the end of the game...
Perhaps that's true. However, N7 is correct. The Hero of the Story is based on our choices with the NPCs at Fort Tarsis. That is like saying you are the hero of high school based on the choices you made.... Kinda blah, no?
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Post by Pearl on Sept 2, 2018 15:32:20 GMT
pre-order only "demos" are lame as shit
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 2, 2018 17:39:35 GMT
pre-order only "demos" are lame as shit You... don't have to preorder to try the demo? What you need to have is an active EA Access account.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 2, 2018 17:48:37 GMT
I think there's a possibility that we could see Tarsis reflect our play, over time, better than prior games. Like you know how Skyhold still had a broken wall in the Map Room corridor by the end of the game...
Perhaps that's true. However, N7 is correct. The Hero of the Story is based on our choices with the NPCs at Fort Tarsis. That is like saying you are the hero of high school based on the choices you made.... Kinda blah, no? Well... no. Unless you think that one of few scattered hubs where people can survive and build some semblance of civilization in an otherwise very hostile environment is comparable to high school? I mean... are you saying that a hero can only be a hero of the story if they're saviors of the whole world or something? Or their actions in one, but potentially crucial place can't have ramifications for world/civilization at large? I mean... by that logic the Champion of Kirkwall or even the Hero Of Ferelden are also heroes of high school, given that their actions were regional or focused mostly on one/few places.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 2, 2018 20:39:52 GMT
If it's not freely distributed then it's not a demo. Bioware can call it a demo all they want, just like I can call my neighbour's pet dog a hamster, but it doesn't make it true. The concept of a paid demo eludes me. Still remember when demos were there for you to have a taste of what the complete product would be. I agree with all the above, though this isn't news, they've been linking the demo to EA Access since they first mentioned the demo. It's dumb. I really don't understand what they think they are accomplishing by calling it a demo, when it's something you have to pay for. Why not just call it what you pay for, early access to the game? Comparisons with the actual release are going to happen no matter what you call it. If the concern is that the code will be branched and, more or less by design, won't reflect the actual released product in enough ways to be significant, make it free. I think people would be more forgiving of free early work. If you make people pay for it, they are going to have expectations. If the concern is that they need beta testing of the MP features ... hmm, that is a problem. A "paid beta" is an oxymoron, since you wouldn't expect to get objective feedback from people that have a stake in the thing succeeding, since they paid for it. But then, calling it a demo doesn't help, since people are less likely to give feedback on something that's just a demo.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 2, 2018 20:56:56 GMT
Your decisions towards certain characters may also affect other characters and their interactions towards you. (except between Haluk and Faye apparently) Yep, when Bioware says "choice and consequence" with Anthem it seems like it just affects character interactions. That's where everything seems to be at. I agree the following wording seems to limit the scope of consequences to the story hubs: But this other excerpt from the same article suggests how the scope might be extended beyond the hub: In other words, your progress on the critical path, your victories over Strongholds, your accomplishments in side missions, will feed back to the story hubs as grist for Your Story mill. At a minimum, I'd expect this to be like how NPCs in Fallout 3/4 and Skyrim react to what you did on some quest. They'll start calling you the Dragonborn or complain about how you let the ghouls take over water distribution. Perhaps they will go beyond that to actual consequences, so that if you kill some faction base out in the world that your NPC friend came from, they'll turn from friend to enemy in the story hub. This still means consequences are limited to relationship status, or may go as far as story hub politics (you may bring down a political leader by being too merciful in a World mission), but you won't change the world from decisions you make in the story hub. Personally, I'm fine with consequences being limited to relationships and politics. The most memorable and engaging decisions I've made in games were all about the characters, not about whether a civil war was settled, whether a Rift was sealed (as I didn't have any choice about that anyway), or about whether Megaton got nuked.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 2, 2018 21:00:51 GMT
There's plenty of evidence suggesting that Demos reduce game sales, not increase them. * One way to mitigate that is by making the Demo available to those who already have 'skin in the game' via preorder or Origin/EA Access.
They got stung by the raw Mass Effect Andromeda footage being mocked before launch, so perhaps they want really safe tests, betas and then a Demo with an invested audience first to polish the game good.
Sure, people who would like to try a demo to decide to buy, will be disappointed but as we've established, Demos are counterproductive anyway, so no loss. I think the Demo is really about testing and polishing, and only after prior testing and polishing.
*
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 2, 2018 21:04:02 GMT
There's plenty of evidence suggesting that Demos reduce game sales, not increase them. * Yeah, but free demos are still being made and released. Mostly by Japanese devs for sub-AAA games, though. They are definitely more the exception than the rule these days, for AAA games anyway. Kickstarter games usually offer demos and early access for patrons, so maybe that's the way of the future. Demos can still be used to break into the very crowded market, but if you are an established studio with an established franchise, there's no upside to a free demo.
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