The "Open World" Compromise

I find managing pacing myself to be both anti-fun and anti-RP. It isn't my PC thinking about pacing, and when I'm thinking as me rather than as my PC, the game is failing as an RPG.

How bad it is depends on the game. ME1 is easy to manage because the UNC content is worthless anyway.

I think MEA improved on DAI's open world content but it still could be better. Also you have to keep in mind that initially DAI was getting tons of great reviews and awards and such, and so they probably figured the safe bet was to continue on that path. Many fans were already complaining about the side quests since its release, but everyone seemed to notice once TW3 came out. At that point it was probably too late in MEA dev cycle to do something radically different. I wouldn't be surprised if the next DA and ME games are a lot different (and better) in the way they approach open world content.

Yeah, that's a matter of opinion. I've never been terribly impressed with BioWare's stories or storytelling, but their characters and world-building.

And I usually resent heavy-handed attempts by developers to enforce pacing.



Written media is not interactive.

Based on some of the posts I see around here, I have to question the bolded argument. Some people don't seem to be able to see story unless they're led by the nose through a sequence of dramatic, cinematic events.



Pacing in the context under discussion refers to the presentation of story beats, at least as near as I can divine. I can spend countless hours in Skyrim without engaging any of the pre-planned story beats - or I can choose to follow whatever questline would best suit my character's values, goals, priorities.  Whatever I do in that world is on me / my character.



But Ryder has loads of content to engage - or not. There are a few places where you need to complete some content to unlock additional content, but that's minimal compared to something like ME2 or ME3, where the devs dictated the order of presentation and enforced pacing.  Andromeda provides loads of side content the player can engage or not, depending on their Ryder's values, goals, priorities.  Whether it's more urgent to establish another outpost, track down a missing ark, support an already established outpost, or go after the Archon is all on Ryder.

I've no interest in responding to the rest of the wall o' text. Different strokes and all.

If you're going to try to claim some majority opinion, you might want to offer a citation.


Actually, you described a sandbox, which has nothing to do with externally authored literary pacing.  A sandbox is essentially a toolset that invites the player to create their own narrative and set their own pace.

I found, for example, some of ME2's pacing awfully heavy-handed in the way the collector missions were handled.  I also found ME3's series of cutscenes on top of cutscenes on top of cutscenes really irritating.  I dislike losing control of my character that much for that long.


The original game had a cinematic narrative along with some open world exploration. So does MEA.

We've known they were developing the Nomad for quite some time, and the devs have talked a lot about a focus on exploration.


Play experience is subjective.

As for the rest, I'll just repeat this:

Andromeda provides loads of side content the player can engage or not, depending on their Ryder's values, goals, priorities.  Whether it's more urgent to establish another outpost, track down a missing ark, support an already established outpost, or go after the Archon is all on Ryder.

So - how does alanC9 make his day to day decisions - or is how he spends his every moment dictated by others?

Note that since your character actually lives in that world, she knows things that you don't know - and vice-versa.

(Yeah, I know.  You want to be told a story that someone else wrote - but you know full well that other people play differently.)


Shepard was occasionally required to respond (react) to an immediate threat. But Garrus survived until Shepard arrived, Thane just happened to be stalking Nassana Dantius when Shepard showed up, etc., etc.  It's all an illusion, anyway.

Unless the villain gets sidetracked, or runs into obstacles. But if you know with certainty a villain's next target, you can pursue it if that suits you and your character. If you instead do other things in the interim, then the villain did, too.


That's equally true of a lot of non OW games. You'll be right on time, regardless of when you show up. Or too late, as in the case of Thessia - because that was storyline they chose.

Yeah, it's not unique to OW games. It's just more annoying in OW games because since I'm having to manage the pacing myself, I'm confronted with it.

BioWare games (KOTOR, JadEmpire, ME, DA) are much different to the TES games from Bethesda. BW games are about story, characters and the presentation. TES was never big at this, I can not remember one TES I have not played at least 700hours and gues what, the main story takes like 10 hours and the side content about 30 more. TES never did good, but what they realy achieved... you could follow the mainstory, lost your way, run around the world and when you returned to the main story, you did not notice. MEA is different... the main story is "big" as so are some side missions (big like story, character involvment, decisions etc), and then we got this filler, they have a story too and some ties to the "main story" and world as it should be, the problem is, your interactions lack, your squad involment lacks, your own character lacks, it is just there to fill the world... and we cna get distracted by it just as we can in TES games, but, when we do a priority mission with all this "stuff" that makes BW games great and then stray off for "low" side missions for 10 hours, that are short on (actualy not at all) on decisions and real character involvment, and then we return for one priority mission again and then stray off and so on, by the time the game ends, we do not remember the good stuff, just the filler. Because... MEA is 10% high quality content and 90% low quality filler. TES on the other hand is 90% about the high quality world and just walking around and 10% low quality mission content. Both are very different concepts. I recently changed how I play MEA... just priority, loyalty and making the outposts and... it works, the bugs are still here, the writing and presentation is still questionable, the tone too light, but overall, what I miss from the OT is to some degree back.

Honestly, at this point, I would like to see BW go back to their approach in ME1 and DAO. By that I mean, Story/Quest focused "levels". For me, levels in this instance are, for example, something like DAO Orzammar and the Deep Roads combined. It was a huge level...and one I would love to see rendered in Frostbite.

Or ME1's Feros, or Noveria, although a bit bigger than those. You had four or five main levels that were a nice size, unique and strongly story focused.

I do think MEA did a much better job of tying in sidequests to the overall story goals than DAI, though. I also thought MEA did a much better job with the dialogue camera distances.

I would like to see BW do some serious work with their npc's. I think more alive feeling npc's would add alot to the feeling of a more alive world. Their npc's in both DAI and MEA..and ME3 are extremely static and dead. The very minor ones that have no dialogue whatsoever don't do anything. They just stand there. Always. Some do pace back and forth. They walk about 10 feet, then stop and turn around and walk back.

Even ones you talk to are extremely static. I was talking to Capt. Dunn, and it had the medium range cam distance, which was fine, imo, for that convo. But nothing else moved on her but her lips. She was so static. So dead except for the occasional, odd, sudden jank movement like she just got electrocuted. DAI had that jank issue, too. I esp remember it when talking to IB and Solas. This odd and sudden body jank, but I think they patched it because it stopped after a few months, I believe.

Or even that one bartender Dutch. I actually liked him. He was an odd one. When you are not talking to him, however, he's a cut out paperdoll just standing in position. He has the occasional shift, then he snaps back into the same static position. I'm thinking, "what, you can't wipe down the bar. Mess with the bottles in the back. Mix some drinks. Nothing?"

At least the npc's in MEA will sometimes turn and look your way, which is also an improvement over DAI, because in DAI you could stand right in front of your companions and it was like you did not exist. You were a ghost. They did not see you. And that's weird.

I think that more detail and attention paid to the npc's, from extremely minor to your crew itself, and making them feel more alive would help with the overall feeling a truly living environment. These pixel bags live in these worlds. They should not be standing there frozen in a thousand mile stare until I deign to interact with them. The npc's need as much, if not more, attention as the trees and the flowers.

Eh. Overall, I just don't want to do this open world thing with BW anymore. I was excited about it at first, but now I feel like, "hey, you know what, that's okay. Nvm. We don't have to do this." I would like them to go back to the approach they had in ME1 and DAO. With improvements, ofc. Everything can be improved, but I liked that approach. For me, it was the best compromise between OW and linear. They were nice sized levels, unique, with weird shite going on underneath it all, and strongly story focused.

....I don;t think BW is going to do that, though.

Yes, they have, but I thought they would improve over time.

I still think they can improve if they decide to turn their attention to it, and realize that maybe it's time for an upgrade in that dept. They've improved in alot of areas. The combat in the ME franchise has improved consistently -although, I'm not a fan of being unable to direct your crew in combat. The environments have improved greatly, obviously. The npc stuff, though, has been left to sway in the breeze. I would like them to turn an eye to that issue.