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Post by zipzap2000 on May 5, 2017 13:30:40 GMT
In a mission to investigate Tremors you come across a man also investigating from the sovereign nation of Advent.
His people are genuine colonists and they need the underground water causing the tremors.
In exchange he offers you the location you can drill for gas instead.
Its at this point you are offered the opportunity to tell him bad the environment that will be.
Well.
Stuff the environmemt. Its not like one gas drilling operation is going to ruin much on Eos at this point is it?
Can you even ruin the environment with an active vault actively fixing it for you?
Is it actually the right thing to say under to a guy who followed your dad to another galaxy that his colony can screw itself because, using earth logic, we might ruin the ozone layer with a gas drilling rig?
You roll around with a mining rig in the back if the Nomad that lets you drop mining probes from space on a whim.
Not to mention that this is Eos we're talking about here. The option to even say "This is bad for the environment" is ridiculous when you're talking about precious resources and the fact this guy needs water and Podromos is next to a fucking lake.
You don't even need this guys water to begin with.
Fuck the environment.
*Hails Advent*
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Post by Ahriman on May 5, 2017 13:55:28 GMT
Environment damage from single gas mine? Ha! There were radioactive storms a week ago, now that's unhealthy.
It's not about gas, it's about teaching a lesson. You don't play independence games with me, criminal scum. All these packs of bandits are declared traitors of their species in the face of Kett threat.
Our faces will know no rest until victory! *Hails Nexus*
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 14:04:08 GMT
This quest was a really bad take on CBM issues. The logical choice is water over gas concerns, because it can be controlled and regulated. It is by far more advantageous to set up the water supply right from the start with all stakeholders engaged. It can be done. I know, it's just like that frontier justice quest, and, yeah, just shows limitations of the "it's a quest in the game, is all." Overall, yes, it has to be one of the environmental issues to be handled from the get go, but not by Ryder with a hammer in hand. I'd issue temporary diversion licence to the settlers, and assign the research team to get the mitigation measures in place in under two years, including the mapping and testing of the aquifer to ensure adequate supply, conservation, and planning for alternative water supply if necessary. They will have gas coming with water any way.
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Post by liquidsnake on May 5, 2017 14:09:29 GMT
I agree. I ran across that dialogue option yesterday and thought it was the silliest inclusion. Look I get Bioware likes to add social justice causes in to the games for one reason or another, but I'm at least happy that it's optional. I told the guy from Advent, sure I'd help him out and went about to mine for that sweet, sweet gas. Then I fired a billion bullets from my gun to kill the Architect and drove off a cliff with my Nomad.
One gas mine isn't going to do anything. Prodromos has enough water, how many ever people are living at Advent likely will die without water and were peaceful toward me. Besides that, the natural gas will definitely be useful going forward.
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Post by Andrew Waples on May 5, 2017 16:53:55 GMT
It would have been nice to see Advent so, I can fully understand what I am sacrificing or gaining, because I don't feel for the guy. You never see any kind of a Advent presence you just have to assume its there. At that point,I'm more attached to AI goals as opposed to some random colony that you never get to see.
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Post by Element Zero on May 5, 2017 20:25:00 GMT
Prodromos needs enough water to grow beyond piss-ant outpost into a true colony. If Advent wants some of this water, they can trade for it. Initiative First.
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Post by abaris on May 5, 2017 20:43:52 GMT
It would have been nice to see Advent so, I can fully understand what I am sacrificing or gaining, because I don't feel for the guy. You never see any kind of a Advent presence you just have to assume its there. At that point,I'm more attached to AI goals as opposed to some random colony that you never get to see. It rather comes out of the blue and moves into the dark. Logical errors aside, such as how did they survive when two full fletched Inititiative outposts couldn't. |
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Post by Amirit on May 5, 2017 20:52:40 GMT
That Advent is a potential enemy: "stay out of our bothers, Nexus! We have nothing to do with you!" - yeah, sure, and you came here totally on your own and do not use resources from Nexus. Die or get back to people you singed to be with! Where was my option to tell him that? Why Ryder is so actively supporting splitting human population in Helios? And they settled not on some unknown planet, but right by the first human settlement and have a nerve to suggest some trade!
Agree about worst possible SJW implementation in the game.
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Post by KonguZya on May 5, 2017 22:07:16 GMT
It would have been nice to see Advent so, I can fully understand what I am sacrificing or gaining, because I don't feel for the guy. You never see any kind of a Advent presence you just have to assume its there. At that point,I'm more attached to AI goals as opposed to some random colony that you never get to see. I'm not convinced that the nation of Advent is more than just those three people standing in a desert. So yeah, screw them, our own people come first. |
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Post by Ahriman on May 6, 2017 0:12:07 GMT
It would have been nice to see Advent so, I can fully understand what I am sacrificing or gaining, because I don't feel for the guy. You never see any kind of a Advent presence you just have to assume its there. At that point,I'm more attached to AI goals as opposed to some random colony that you never get to see. It rather comes out of the blue and moves into the dark. Logical errors aside, such as how did they survive when two full fletched Inititiative outposts couldn't. Well, they didn't have Addison as their boss, so it doesn't sound too far-fetched. |
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 6, 2017 1:41:38 GMT
That Advent is a potential enemy: "stay out of our bothers, Nexus! We have nothing to do with you!" - yeah, sure, and you came here totally on your own and do not use resources from Nexus. Die or get back to people you singed to be with! Where was my option to tell him that? Why Ryder is so actively supporting splitting human population in Helios? And they settled not on some unknown planet, but right by the first human settlement and have a nerve to suggest some trade! Agree about worst possible SJW implementation in the game. You realise the colonists paid their life saving to buy that equiptment on the Nexus right? They are literally entitled to it because they helped source and pay for it. |
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 6, 2017 5:20:57 GMT
Prodromos needs enough water to grow beyond piss-ant outpost into a true colony. If Advent wants some of this water, they can trade for it. Initiative First. The initaitive not only needs bee's but lacks the population necessary to grow beyond a piss ant out post. And with colonies on Kadara, Voeld and Elaaden, this argument makes even less sense. It seems you are prioritising the radioactive environment over the lives of colonists and ending the tensions that led to Advent leaving in the first place. Which is short sighted. And where human history and fresh water are concerned you've created a conflict that didn't previously exist. Ever heard of the term: "Poisoned the well out of spite"? Apply it literally. Advent don't need to attack you like the Roekaar. They know where your all your drinking water is and clearly have access to the kinds of tools required to access it. |
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Post by Element Zero on May 6, 2017 5:44:18 GMT
Prodromos needs enough water to grow beyond piss-ant outpost into a true colony. If Advent wants some of this water, they can trade for it. Initiative First. The initaitive not only needs bee's but lacks the population necessary to grow beyond a piss ant out post. And with colonies on Kadara, Voeld and Elaaden, this argument makes even less sense. It seems you are prioritising the radioactive environment over the lives of colonists and ending the tensions that led to Advent leaving in the first place. Which is short sighted. And where human history and fresh water are concerned you've created a conflict that didn't previously exist. Ever heard of the term: "Poisoned the well out of spite"? Apply it literally. Advent don't need to attack you like the Roekaar. They know where your all your drinking water is and clearly have access to the kinds of tools required to access it. They'd not poison the water source, considering it would kill them as well. The prospector even says, "We'll have to trade for that water, now. Well, I understand, Pathfinder." There don't seem to be any hard feelings, at least from this guy. I don't keep the water to spite Advent. I keep the water because the Initiative needs it, in the long run. (Importing water should be a last resort, and a temporary one.) Also, having the region's water may entice Advent back to the table. That's always a goal for my Pathfinder, at every turn. Why mess with fossil fuels when I can secure water? Why strengthen a rival colony that could hem in Ai development, if I can instead reel them back into the fold? |
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 6, 2017 5:59:00 GMT
The initaitive not only needs bee's but lacks the population necessary to grow beyond a piss ant out post. And with colonies on Kadara, Voeld and Elaaden, this argument makes even less sense. It seems you are prioritising the radioactive environment over the lives of colonists and ending the tensions that led to Advent leaving in the first place. Which is short sighted. And where human history and fresh water are concerned you've created a conflict that didn't previously exist. Ever heard of the term: "Poisoned the well out of spite"? Apply it literally. Advent don't need to attack you like the Roekaar. They know where your all your drinking water is and clearly have access to the kinds of tools required to access it. They'd not poison the water source, considering it would kill them as well. The prospector even says, "We'll have to trade for that water, now. Well, I understand, Pathfinder." There don't seem to be any hard feelings, at least from this guy. I don't keep the water to spite Advent. I keep the water because the Initiative needs it, in the long run. (Importing water should be a last resort, and a temporary one.) Also, having the region's water may entice Advent back to the table. That's always a goal for my Pathfinder, at every turn. Why mess with fossil fuels when I can secure water? Why strengthen a rival colony that could hem in Ai development, if I can instead reel them back into the fold? If you take the water they can't use it. No reason not to poison it. Yeah, sure take their homes away and force them to join you. I'm sure they'll happily integrate with the people who left them to rot in a desert cave with no water. I'm sure they won't use their new clearance to get onto the Nexus to take revenge or start dissenting from within Podromos. It would be easy to rig a shuttles drive core into a bomb. With access to Podromos you vould plant it right in the middle of town. It makes no sense to refuse the gas just to screw over Advent. |
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 6, 2017 6:15:06 GMT
Nah, fuck Advent. If they didn't want to be part of the Initiative, they shouldn't have joined in the first place.
Also, I don't care how long it would take to pollute Eos. I'm the one who put in the hard yards to make it habitable. I don't clean house just so some thoughtless butthole can immediately start messing it up.
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 6, 2017 6:50:40 GMT
Nah, fuck Advent. If they didn't want to be part of the Initiative, they shouldn't have joined in the first place. Also, I don't care how long it would take to pollute Eos. I'm the one who put in the hard yards to make it habitable. I don't clean house just so some thoughtless butthole can immediately start messing it up. Somebody hasnt done this part before..... *Sips Ryncol* |
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Post by traks on May 6, 2017 9:31:28 GMT
Under no circumstances my Ryder will support people leaving the Initiative and creating their own independent society. That's not why you got picked for the Initiative, buddies! Come back into the fold or else...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on May 6, 2017 11:30:26 GMT
That Advent is a potential enemy: "stay out of our bothers, Nexus! We have nothing to do with you!" - yeah, sure, and you came here totally on your own and do not use resources from Nexus. Die or get back to people you singed to be with! Where was my option to tell him that? Why Ryder is so actively supporting splitting human population in Helios? And they settled not on some unknown planet, but right by the first human settlement and have a nerve to suggest some trade! Agree about worst possible SJW implementation in the game. You realise the colonists paid their life saving to buy that equiptment on the Nexus right? They are literally entitled to it because they helped source and pay for it. Paid for what? To establish their own country? I do not think so. They paid for joining the AI - joining, not using AI vessels as a transportation means. The whole "uprising" part of the game is ridiculous from start to finish but by the rules of enforced stupidity of the matter those colonists are still outlaws and threat for Prodromos and AI in general. |
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 6, 2017 11:44:54 GMT
You realise the colonists paid their life saving to buy that equiptment on the Nexus right? They are literally entitled to it because they helped source and pay for it. Paid for what? To establish their own country? I do not think so. They paid for joining the AI - joining, not using AI vessels as a transportation means. The whole "uprising" part of the game is ridiculous from start to finish but by the rules of enforced stupidity of the matter those colonists are still outlaws and threat for Prodromos and AI in general. 1.They gained the right to start their own country when the Nexus told them it was ok to leave and do whatever the hell they wanted to after that. You either accept that they have their own equipment given to them by the Nexus because of that, or you don't. 2. A threat that asks nicely and trades with you for natural resources. They sound truly dangerous. I'll give you an example of what going on here Child A likes bananas but has an apple. Child B has an apple but likes bananas Child A takes Child B's lunch and gives him nothing in return, even though he doesnt need lunch or even like bananas. The excuse being they don't want another apple core to go down to the dump contributing to pollution. You are going "child A" in order to agree with a real world political point, at the expense of the in game world. This is illogical. |
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Post by kalasaurus on May 6, 2017 12:01:15 GMT
I'm not convinced that the nation of Advent is more than just those three people standing in a desert. So yeah, screw them, our own people come first. To paraphrase Drack as I'm about to drill for water: "Don't worry about those Advent guys. They'll figure something else out." You can still offer to send them support or information afterwards, so I didn't see it as much of an issue anyway. |
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Post by Amirit on May 6, 2017 13:28:16 GMT
Paid for what? To establish their own country? I do not think so. They paid for joining the AI - joining, not using AI vessels as a transportation means. The whole "uprising" part of the game is ridiculous from start to finish but by the rules of enforced stupidity of the matter those colonists are still outlaws and threat for Prodromos and AI in general. 1.They gained the right to start their own country when the Nexus told them it was ok to leave and do whatever the hell they wanted to after that. You either accept that they have their own equipment given to them by the Nexus because of that, or you don't. 2. A threat that asks nicely and trades with you for natural resources. They sound truly dangerous. I'll give you an example of what going on here Child A likes bananas but has an apple. Child B has an apple but likes bananas Child A takes Child B's lunch and gives him nothing in return, even though he doesnt need lunch or even like bananas. The excuse being they don't want another apple core to go down to the dump contributing to pollution. You are going "child A" in order to agree with a real world political point, at the expense of the in game world. This is illogical. Sorry, your example makes no sense regarding situation. Survival - is about consolidating forces, not division. As I said, the idea of uprising is the worst in game (I would go so far as to say "in games", plural). But if we take it at a face value, Advent guy openly says - "stay away from our bothers". It IS a threat. He has no rights for the land he claims but if he wishes to play "we" and "you", then so be it and my people will come as first priority at any rate. They should be thankful Ryder did not kill them on spot as outlaws. |
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 6, 2017 13:48:55 GMT
1.They gained the right to start their own country when the Nexus told them it was ok to leave and do whatever the hell they wanted to after that. You either accept that they have their own equipment given to them by the Nexus because of that, or you don't. 2. A threat that asks nicely and trades with you for natural resources. They sound truly dangerous. I'll give you an example of what going on here Child A likes bananas but has an apple. Child B has an apple but likes bananas Child A takes Child B's lunch and gives him nothing in return, even though he doesnt need lunch or even like bananas. The excuse being they don't want another apple core to go down to the dump contributing to pollution. You are going "child A" in order to agree with a real world political point, at the expense of the in game world. This is illogical. Sorry, your example makes no sense regarding situation. Survival - is about consolidating forces, not division. As I said, the idea of uprising is the worst in game (I would go so far as to say "in games", plural). But if we take it at a face value, Advent guy openly says - "stay away from our bothers". It IS a threat. He has no rights for the land he claims but if he wishes to play "we" and "you", then so be it and my people will come as first priority at any rate. They should be thankful Ryder did not kill them on spot as outlaws. Stay away from our borders is not a threat its pointing out the dividing line between your nation and his. No different to Anerica building a wall to kerp mexicans out. You can choose not to like the upriding all you like. |
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Post by Fredward on May 6, 2017 14:02:19 GMT
Told him to get stuffed, it isn't about the mine or the water it's because it's beyond stupid to aid a rival settlement, which is fairly antagonistic, on the first world you colonize.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyberfrog on May 6, 2017 16:52:41 GMT
I didn't want to have to trade for water, that's a very sucky situation to put Prodromos in. The whole "muh environment" thing feels awfully forced though. Am I really supposed to believe that the space-magical Vault would have any trouble managing a bit of natural gas?
Wish you could be more of a hardliner, e.g. screw your 'independence', you work with the Initiative to colonize the planet or you GTFO. We risk our lives on an hourly basis trying to build places were Milky Way species can thrive, including here on Eos where we've fought entire armies (pretty much fought a dragon, too!) while you hid. Seem fair you're just going to roll in and take whatever resources you want without consulting us? Hell. No.
Is there ANY conflict in the game that's actually good, come to think of it? Some had potential, and should have been fleshed out more. Instead it seems it was deemed more important that we never ran out of things to scan or shoot.
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Post by Element Zero on May 6, 2017 18:55:04 GMT
They'd not poison the water source, considering it would kill them as well. The prospector even says, "We'll have to trade for that water, now. Well, I understand, Pathfinder." There don't seem to be any hard feelings, at least from this guy. I don't keep the water to spite Advent. I keep the water because the Initiative needs it, in the long run. (Importing water should be a last resort, and a temporary one.) Also, having the region's water may entice Advent back to the table. That's always a goal for my Pathfinder, at every turn. Why mess with fossil fuels when I can secure water? Why strengthen a rival colony that could hem in Ai development, if I can instead reel them back into the fold? If you take the water they can't use it. No reason not to poison it. Yeah, sure take their homes away and force them to join you. I'm sure they'll happily integrate with the people who left them to rot in a desert cave with no water. I'm sure they won't use their new clearance to get onto the Nexus to take revenge or start dissenting from within Podromos. It would be easy to rig a shuttles drive core into a bomb. With access to Podromos you vould plant it right in the middle of town. It makes no sense to refuse the gas just to screw over Advent. It sounds like you're afraid of this little band of exiles. I didn't let fear of Sloane's exiles dictate terms to me. I have no reason to fear Advent, which is likely far less substantial. Why would I put Advent ahead of Prodromos? It makes no sense. The prospector flat out said that Advent would trade for the water. You're assuming the exact opposite in saying they'd poison the underground rivers. You realize that would take a lot of effort, and have far reaching, devastating consequences, right? They'd be killing themselves. Why would they do that, when they can trade for the water they need? It would be suicidal insanity. I don't offer to prop up their exile colony, that could later cause trouble for Prodromos. (Rival states are one of the very reasons we left the Milky Way.) What I do offer is a trade partner and military aid against serious threats (such as Architects), just as Hainley describes. Ultimately, everyone is better off under the same umbrella. They'll come around, eventually, and benefit; or they won't, and they'll benefit less. If they were to think that suicidal terrorism is preferable, the Pathfinder and APEX would descend on them like the Flophouse. This is not a choice they really get to make. They pretty much have to live with whatever Ryder chooses. Yeah, they'd prefer access to the water. Who wouldn't? I know I do, and that's why it goes to Prodromos. Besides, who wants to ignite fossil fuel consumption on Eos? Who wants to start fracking near a new outpost? |
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