Ianamus
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 18, 2017 13:54:28 GMT
I'd rather it be something hashtag gaylien and squadmate or something because that's what I actually want. I'll be salty (as salty as all of the Jaal-mancers are now) if they just make Jaal a bisexual option in MEA2. That's not what I want and I hate that he'd just get the ME3 Kaidan approach. I'd much rather they give us a gay alien guy who was intended that way -- like Avitus or Kandros (since he could be gay) or a quarian (when they finally arrive) or, hell, even a drell (which is my absolute least favorite option -- I'd rather a volus over a drell). And I don't think #MakeJaalBi gets that point across unless you really dig for it. But, the wheels are in motion and there's no stopping momentum once it gets going. Or, more aptly, the amount of energy it takes to stop that momentum and then get momentum in another direction, is counterproductive, I fear. This is a really good summary. I'm the same, all I really want is a gay (or even bi) male alien squadmate who was intended to be that way and written that way from the beginning. But that doesn't fit into a small, neat, provocative hashtag. I just hope that when the quarian ark dlc comes out, if it ever comes out, that there's a male quarian character I really like so I can campaign for LI/squadmate status for them. I just don't have the passion for any of the existing male characters to do that.
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Ianamus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 18, 2017 13:31:10 GMT
It's not that they arent making their arguments well, It's that I flat out dont agree with what they are asking for. I care a lot about the m/m romance situation and how poorly done it was, but I think making Jaal bi would be an awful move and I'll go as far as arguing against it myself on twitter if I have to. And other people feel the same. You want to know what's really counter productive? Making the loudest part of your campaign a divisive statement that half the people who care about the "real" problem are against. There's still the loud "make jaal bi" corner shouting and being salty, but what about all the other people who were unhappy? They don't want anything to do with this hashtag. Way to alienate a large chunk of your supporters. There's also the #MakeReyesASquadmate tag, and if you don't like that one you can make a tag of your own and try to spread the word on it. Nice thing about the make-some-noise strategy is not everyone has to be saying the same things. Folks are asking for what they want; you can disagree with 'em all you want, doesn't mean they have to bow to your opinion. I'm not telling anyone to bow to my opinion. The only reason I even brought this up is because the previous discussion basically consisted of "look at this bitch tweeting against #MakeJaalBi". Classy. When somebodies complaint against her was literally "#MakeJallBi isn't even about making Jaal bi" I'm not going to stay silent about how stupid the whole hashtag situation is. If people want to tweet using that hashtag, that's fine. But they can't turn around and complain that people are focusing on Jaal rather than the bigger picture when it's the one they chose to use.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 18, 2017 12:40:43 GMT
Then that's why no-one takes twitter hashtag movements seriously. Of course there's been a lot of legitimate discussion about the romances. Articles, TV tropes pages, letter movements, social media threads and such. But that's in spite if, not because of, the hashtag stuff. All I've seen surrounding the make jaal bi hashtag are petty arguments like the previous page and people using it to dismiss all of the legitimate complaints about the romance distribution. Admitting it was created on impulse without much thought isn't a justification for it's continued use. Nocte has the right of it, though. You're not gonna win an argument with BioWare by being calm and rational and carefully stating your points - if that was how this worked, Andromeda wouldn't be such a godawful mess. You win the argument by making noise until people can't ignore you anymore. Right now #MakeJaalBi is one of the loudest voices in the room - telling them to shut up because you don't think they're stating their arguments well is counterproductive and pointless. It's not that they arent making their arguments well, It's that I flat out dont agree with what they are asking for. I care a lot about the m/m romance situation and how poorly done it was, but I think making Jaal bi would be an awful move and I'll go as far as arguing against it myself on twitter if I have to. And other people feel the same. You want to know what's really counter productive? Making the loudest part of your campaign a divisive statement that half the people who care about the "real" problem are against. There's still the loud "make jaal bi" corner shouting and being salty, but what about all the other people who were unhappy? They don't want anything to do with this hashtag. Way to alienate a large chunk of your supporters.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 18, 2017 12:19:09 GMT
I don't like the #MakeJaalBi or #MakeReyesaSquadmate hashtags at all. They are too specific and exclusive. Yeah I think the m/m romances suck. But I don't particuarly want Reyes to be a squadmate and I really dont want them changing Jaal, so I am never going to support them. Why couldn't people have gone with something like #romanceinequality or, well, anything that would actually be universal? You can't turn around now and say "Its about so much more than making jaal bi, why do people go on about that?". If you dont want people to focus on that then maybe you shouldn't have called the hashtag "makeJaalBi". Folks who were upset about the lack of M/M didn't have an organized plan to fall back on when they were acting upset. You can't really expect everyone to go about this kind of thing in the most calmly rational way possible, a bunch of folks are going to shout about how mad they are and a bunch more folks are going to grab what resonates with them and turn it into a slogan. (Which is why #romanceinequality would never work - it's painfully generic and boring, no one wants to shout that in the streets.) Twitter isn't going to snap into military precision whenever it's convenient, you kinda have to roll with what develops. And honestly, it's not like there hasn't been a lot of noise about all the many problems with the game's approach to gay characters. If someone decides not to listen because of a hashtag, they were a lost cause from the start. Then that's why no-one takes twitter hashtag movements seriously. Of course there's been a lot of legitimate discussion about the romances. Articles, TV tropes pages, letter movements, social media threads and such. But that's in spite if, not because of, the hashtag stuff. All I've seen surrounding the make jaal bi hashtag are petty arguments like the previous page and people using it to dismiss all of the legitimate complaints about the romance distribution. Admitting it was created on impulse without much thought isn't a justification for it's continued use.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 18, 2017 11:13:30 GMT
I don't like the #MakeJaalBi or #MakeReyesaSquadmate hashtags at all. They are too specific and exclusive.
Yeah I think the m/m romances suck. But I don't particuarly want Reyes to be a squadmate and I really dont want them changing Jaal, so I am never going to support them.
Why couldn't people have gone with something like #romanceinequality or, well, anything that would actually be universal?
You can't turn around now and say "Its about so much more than making jaal bi, why do people go on about that?". If you dont want people to focus on that then maybe you shouldn't have called the hashtag "MakeJaalBi".
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 17, 2017 23:48:06 GMT
Cora, Sara and Peebs all have the same ass, so I can sorta understand it. Their getting a lot of bang for their buck. What I can't understand is why so much attention was given to Scotts ass. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that male ass asset only used in Cora's scene? Maybe Peebs as well. And I'm pretty sure Scott is the only male character who ever shows their ass except for Jaal who has a unique model. They literally spent hours making a male ass model that is only visible in the straight m/f scenes. His ass in that scene was made for female players who enjoy a nice male butts on their screen. And he has a nice one. I can see why they'd appreciate it, but how many female players will be playing Scott and romancing Cora or Peebee? I can't imagine it's that many. Probably not enough to justify spending hours modeling his ass just for them. They really should have included it in the m/m scenes.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 17, 2017 23:06:29 GMT
Cora, Sara and Peebs all have the same ass, so I can sorta understand the resources spent on it. It comes up in a lot of scenes, so they're getting a lot of bang for their buck.
What I can't understand is why so much attention was given to Scotts ass. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that male ass asset only used in Cora's scene? Maybe Peebs as well. And I'm pretty sure Scott is the only male character who ever shows their ass except for Jaal who has a unique model.
They literally spent hours making a male ass model that is only visible in the scenes straight guys get. At least bi guys get to appreciate it as well, I guess? If they happen to romance Cora or Peebee, anyway.
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Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 17, 2017 22:24:10 GMT
I think the problems more that there have been so few gay NPC's to start with. I can think of a few of plot relevance in the books and side material, but admittedly very few in the games themselves. But I do think that the only reason there are more plot relevant bi male characters is because there are more bi male characters in general. They are still all LI's or optional sexual encounters, though.
Another issue is that there are a lot of characters of plot relevance who I felt might be gay, but it was never clear. I always felt that the viscounts son was romantically interested in his qunari friend, but it was never touched upon one way or the other. Same with a lot of characters in Mass Effect. There are loads of characters who could be gay, but we just don't know because their sexuality is never relevant. In fact, I can't actually think of that many plot relevant NPC's outside the Tempest whose sexuality we know anything about. Your parents, Kesh, Avitus and Sloane are the only ones who come to mind, and we only know about Sloanes (potential) turian boyfriend from the book.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 17, 2017 19:13:54 GMT
I remember the Javik Angara, but who did Tali and Mirandas VA's voice?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 17, 2017 18:38:34 GMT
I'd rather they don't make Avitus an LI at all. I just don't want that "dead lover" baggage, even if it is well written and handled well (which is unlikely).
I would love to see a Turian m/m LI, but make it a new character.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 13, 2017 23:02:29 GMT
I'm sure he just misunderstood the post and thought the poster was saying the m/m romances didn't correctly count toward the achievement.
Its pretty clear that the final result is poor design choice, not a bug.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 13, 2017 22:46:00 GMT
If people dont want to do the thing that gives you the achievement, they dont get the achievment. Amazingly, that's how achievements work. Nobody is physically prevented from unlocking any of them. By your logic we should just instantly give everyone every achievement the instant they buy the game. Yes except that everyone else doesn't have to play outside their orientation to achieve said achievement. And the fact that you're OK with that make you sound homophobic hth Yeah I'm a dude who likes men but because I dont think a video game achievement is a big deal I'm homophobic. Are you even listening to yourself?
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 13, 2017 22:15:25 GMT
If people dont want to do the thing that gives you the achievement, they dont get the achievment. Amazingly, that's how achievements work. Nobody is physically prevented from unlocking any of them. By your logic we should just instantly give everyone every achievement the instant they buy the game. But there is a prevension for gay men to get the achievement whereas other orientations can do so without needing to plan as someone they dont relate to Having an achievement for completing three romances is very arbitrary and poor design, but it's ultimately a minor and insignificant detail. There are plenty of real issues with the romance system that need attention, so why focus on something so minor? All bringing up that achievement repeatedly does is trivialise the problems and paint all people who have legitimate complaints about the m/m romances in a bad light. Yes, you can't get that one achievement playing only gay male characters. So what? Focus on the real problems rather than a minor footnote people will rightfully dismiss.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 13, 2017 21:59:42 GMT
Then they don't get that one achievement? Why shouldn't they get that achievement? Gay people's $60 isn't worth less than yours. If people dont want to do the thing that gives you the achievement, they dont get the achievment. Amazingly, that's how achievements work. Nobody is physically prevented from unlocking any of them. By your logic we should just instantly give everyone every achievement the instant they buy the game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 19:36:31 GMT
Actually we have, and let's just say Habitat 5 aka H-047c isn't going to be habitable any time soon As for DLCs, nothing would increase replayability like additional squadmates with recruitment and loyalty missions in the vein of ME2's Price of Revenge and Stolen Memory. I wouldn't bet on that happening though. Bioware said they were done with DLC squadmates. In order for them to work properly, they'd need to have left part of said DLCs coding into the game, which people would decry as on disc DLC. If I remember corretly they were asked about potential DLC squadmates before launch and their answer was something like "maybe we will, maybe we wont"
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 18:31:00 GMT
Well, my other suggestion was going to be that Gil is the descendant of a certain president... You're doing that on purpose, and I can't let it stand, my dear. Regardless of how you feel about the Gil/Kallo argument, that's way too low of a blow. I shall defend my husbando's honor. I'm not afraid to take off my weave. Prepare yourself, dear. I was talking more about the orange skin, but now that you mention it I do vagely remember him suggesting we build a wall to separate him from Kallo. I swear I heard him muttering something about quarians "stealing all the jobs" too. And something about an influential friend of his who thinks all men need to "fufil their civic duty" and get breeding.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 18:14:49 GMT
That or he uses too much spray tan. Well, if that's the case, he's beyond thorough and gets a full body treatment. We've seen his booty. Lmao But the thought of orange spray tan pains me....for reasons that I will not discuss here, but are likely obvious, so I don't really like to even entertain the thought that Gil uses it. Well, my other suggestion was going to be that Gil is the descendant of a certain president...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 18:02:20 GMT
Regarding Gil, to my eyes he's got white facial features and brown skin (but it looks orange in certain lighting of course). I like to think that he's a mix of European, Middle Eastern, and Indian (as in from India) ancestry. That or he uses too much spray tan.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 17:53:03 GMT
I feel like boobs are the whole reason I'm not bi, tbh. Smooth, toned male chests are like the hottest thing in the world, to me. Toned male chests give me life. Given your avatar I never would have guessed Im pretty much the same, but boobs are great as well. Chests are great in general. Thats why I cant get into Jaal- that bizarre chest shape doesnt do it for me =/ or the Salarians concave chests.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 17:47:15 GMT
I hate to interrupt the hair talk, and these are both from pages/hours ago, but hey. That's not really what I was referring to. I was talking about people who can't get pregnant (by accident), like gay people and asexuals. Having my gay character have "procreation blockers" just comes off as incredibly invalidating. They probably had to take sexual crimes into account top though, don't you think? It's depressing, but considering that the initiative ended up being full of people who turned into murderers and thieves, it's probably full of rapists as well. Another thread got me thinking... does it bother anyone else that pretty much all the female LI's in Mass Effect are white? Other than Samantha, who's only an option for women. We have more Asari LI's in Mass Effect than non-white females, and that's kinda shocking. Especially since the only white male LI I can think of is Gil. Wait, is Gil supposed to be white? He's so much darker than default Ryder, I assumed he was supposed to be (south) Asian... Please do interrupt it. I dont need to know how much body hair forum posters here have. Gils probably mixed race, like most ME humans. But hes the closest thing to a white male LI we have. Its very strange that almost all of the human female LIs are white but none of the male ones are.
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 15:33:11 GMT
Actually I don't think the ethnic diversity of the background characters could be better. Not at all. They've pretty much made it as broad as possible in Andromeda. They just need to get out of the mentality that there always needs to be a white female LI on the crew, because there doesn't. But with regards to the universe at large, as with the LBG content there, I have no complaints. Black female LI please? We've never had one in ME. The closest we get in any Bioware game is Isabela. And in the meantime we have Dynaheir and Vivienne looking fiiiiiiine. I'd love a female knight like Pallegina from pillars of eternity. Of course, given that she'll be returning in the sequel and the sequel will include companion relationships, she may end up being an LI herself.
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 15:03:31 GMT
"Who'd want to push her off?" "ME!!!" "... but why???" "Because I'm a big. GAY. Jellyfish" It's like gay people just don't exist in his mind until you remind him of them. "Oh yeah those guys!" *forgets 5 seconds later* Or straight women, apparently.
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 13:41:22 GMT
Eurgh just got the Zero G scene. Why Peebee why? I was starting to like you. You can't even say you are gay or not into asari or women ffs Codex: ... you opted not start a sexual relationship with her. My Codex: I said no hetero cause I am as gay af and if you didn't take the hint well your stupid and cray cause I am gay. For what it's worth, you can avoid that if you lock in a romance before the scene. I was already in a relationship with Vetra since I left Peebee's loyalty mission on hold for a long time, so I got a different version of that scene. It's cut short and there's still an odd flirty undertone if you are already in a romance, but at least you don't have to specifically reject any advances.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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ianamus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 13:00:35 GMT
Is Andromeda better than the OT? The OT actually had a pretty diverse cast when it came to ethnicity. It has a much better track record than Dragon Age, at least. Maybe not on the Tempest but I liked seeing more people of different ethnic background having more prominent roles. Definitely could be better though. Actually I don't think the ethnic diversity of the background characters could be better. Not at all. They've pretty much made it as broad as possible in Andromeda. They just need to get out of the mentality that there always needs to be a white female LI on the crew, because there doesn't. But with regards to the universe at large, as with the LBG content there, I have no complaints.
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Ianamus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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2331
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Jun 23, 2020 21:23:04 GMT
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614
December 2016
ianamus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 12, 2017 12:44:31 GMT
Another thread got me thinking... does it bother anyone else that pretty much all the female LI's in Mass Effect are white? Other than Samantha, who's only an option for women. We have more Asari LI's in Mass Effect than non-white females, and that's kinda shocking. Especially since the only white male LI I can think of is Gil. While slightly improved over the OT, representation for people of colour definitely could be better. Is Andromeda better than the OT? The OT actually had a pretty diverse cast when it came to ethnicity. It has a much better track record than Dragon Age, at least.
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