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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 1:22:29 GMT
I think you all need to calm down I always turn up for a Bob Ross reference.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 1:14:50 GMT
So was the drama over romance ever this bad in the past games, or is this a special kind of terrible due to the planets aligning? The planets being the months of teasing without shutting anything down, the laundry list of 'don't gross out the straight guys' design trends (unintentional or not), and now potentially even a bug giving people even more false hope? I'm seriously curious if past drama had anything on this, or was worse? The Mass Effect 2 drama was far more severe (and deservedly so. No m/m and some offensive comments from devs about why male Shepard couldn't be gay).
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 1:07:16 GMT
At the same time, I saw plenty of criticism about the way he was basically a tool for exposition. "Hello, I'm Krem, yes, I'm trans, this is what trans means, some people don't like trans people, are you one of them?" Obviously I'm paraphrasing. Gaider went on to say that they wouldn't do it in the same way if they had to do it over. It's very difficult, because obviously representation matters, and it was great to have Krem there. This was the first time they've tried this (excluding Serendipity, and of course Mae is only in the comics so far), and to their credit they did ask trans people for advice before hand. But again we have a trans character, rather than a character who just happens to be trans. I admit I don't envy the writers who do want to get this all right. It's difficult. True and I do remember some of that from the old BSN. I dunno maybe it's just me, but even after it is revealed(which I recall Bull did not Krem himself) I felt like Krem didn't bring it up unless you specifically asked. I'm not trans however so I don't really wanna speak on how those who are perceived him. It comes up multiple times in preachy banters and such as well. Krem COULD have been great but they just didn't know when to fucking quit. That's why it was so frustrating. Like, 'we got it. Can we just learn something ELSE about him now? He seems cool.'
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 0:46:31 GMT
As a trans guy i can confirm the way the handled the trans npc was terrible I can't see many trans men or women finding this to be a positive representation or inclusion. No one does that? Its different but... one time I got introduced as my siater's "gay brother". It pissed me off so much I introduced my "straight Pisces father" and "straight Taurus" mother. An interaction I once had: 'Oh, are you James' gay brother?' 'No. I'm James' pissed off brother.'
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 0:31:30 GMT
Oh no. I can't go through another mass transphobic triggering. I just can't.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 0:24:16 GMT
I better not have gone on an epic rant for nothing. Even if I did enjoy it. No epic rant is ever for nothing! Just style it out and enjoy the beauty of it. Or maybe just hide. That's a plan too. People will forget. Eventually. [This has never happened to me... ever... honest]I'm too much of a dickhead to hide. I'll just go with it.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 0:17:50 GMT
I better not have gone on an epic rant for nothing. Even if I did enjoy it.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 21, 2017 0:13:57 GMT
Who is that guy tweeting? Is he Kind Of A Big Deal? Or just some random player?
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 23:59:19 GMT
Dude, yes, this. In the space of one game he goes from a rakeish 'I take it as it comes, I don't settle down, I just do' to 'let's have a kid and be a big gay family with my hag, 22 year old guy I've started dating!' It's just...bizarre tonally when in context of the Mass Effect series. When I watched the 'let's have a kid' scene I had to double take. It's totally bizarre when it comes to ME. You know what it feels like? They wrote a '' revolutionary '' story and put all the eggs in the basket called Gil and called it a day, that's enough for gay guys right? While first, it really sounded spectacular, but the more you think about it and the more you realize this is Mass Effect, it makes no goddamn sense. It's shoddy, it's weird, it's way too fast. You know what they could've done and made Gil's romance THAT MUCH BETTER?
Remove the baby thing, and allocate more time on making Gil more plot relevant. Make the romance feel like it takes place in the world of Mass Effect instead of gay soap opera. There should be some conflict, tender moments, a realization of love, yadayada. Then, the final scene, Gil says '' So, we've been together for quite some time now.. I love you, I really do and.. I was thinking, would you ever consider, in the future... starting a family with me? '' Boom, hearts melt everywhere, such a heartfelt thing to say. And to this, your Ryder can say '' Oh my god Gil, of course I would '' or '' I have my hands full of Gil Brodie, I think I'll be just fine with just you, and me, together forever '' and boom. Amazing, emotional, and a choice that gives you some freedom to roleplay and headcanon what happens afterwards. It's that easy. Exactly. It's like a super patronising, amateurish soap opera that has nothing to do with Mass Effect and supports the idea that he was put in as the token gay romance rather than an important character who happened to be written as a m/m romance also.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 23:46:06 GMT
I started liking the Asari after the subtle suggestion they might just be hideous brainwashing parasites. Photos and statues of them be damned, that is my canon.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 23:43:43 GMT
Yeah and I thought that Jaal wasn't straight. I still don't believe that they will do a good NPC. The ME:A team did very bad things to my trust here. Involved in the plot probably = She'll give you a few major quests. Have some cute lines and almost never have any new dialogue. Maybe she'll even have one cut-scene all to herself, just like Samantha did in ME3! Ooh, maybe two? I do not expect anywhere near the same level of quality as Josie or Cullen at this point. I'll be happy if I'm wrong, but so far, the ME:A team has shown that they love to take steps backward. Then look around and wonder why the fans are furious. Hell, I'm furious and I've never been the type to be an angry fan. For those that think I'm not acting like my usual self, you're right. Most of the time I try to stay upbeat and calm. It takes a lot to make me this angry and frustrated. It takes a lot, and seeing the gay/bi men that had their faith in the company has done it. For the first time in 5 years, EA-BioWare has managed to do just that. Edit: Typo Haha, i know right? Im a primo Bioware apologist, always have been, and despite not really being interested in m/m content myself, i have been getting slowly but surely angrier ever since the announcement. Ever since the review scores dropped i have been afraid that ME may be dead in the water, but i actually dont care anymore. Maybe if they shelve Mass Effect theyll revive Jade Empire, who knows. Lets just hope the Secret IP team is more in line with the DA peeps, and not Montreal. I want to stay a Bioware-Fan, and not downgrade to just a Dragon Age-Fan. Gurl. I legit google 'Jade Empire 2 news' every month. Let's just go with that, Bioware.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 23:41:11 GMT
Why do you think he's a "token gay character"? I've seen this said a few times now and I'm not understanding this nor the claim (made by someone else, I think) that his whole story revolves around being gay. I mean, I know you don't like Gil. But what exactly is this claim based on? Okay, I didn't really say that his whole story revolves around being gay. I do think his romance really puts a lot of emphasis on the homosexuality, weirdly enough lol. See, look at the gay guys and their romances/stories so far that we've gotten from BW
1) Steve -> dead husband, getting over dead husband 2) Dorian -> daddy doesn't accept my sexuality 3) Gil -> lets become daddies and make it perfectly clear we cant have children without a third wheel
a lot of these stories put a lot of emphasis on the '' being gay '' thing, and especially Gil's seems so detached from the actual game and it's plot that it's almost weird and out of place. A lot of the times, these characters do seem like they are gay first, characters later, whether it comes to their story or their romance. I know I'm picky, but it's also why I seem to gravitate more towards bisexual males in BW games, because there is none of that gay profiling in their story or romance.
By all means, love Gil, his story, his romance, everything about him. I'm not very into him and some of his romance weirds me out. Dude, yes, this. In the space of one game he goes from a rakeish 'I take it as it comes, I don't settle down, I just do' to 'let's have a kid and be a big gay family with my hag, 22 year old guy I've started dating!' It's just...bizarre tonally when in context of the Mass Effect series. When I watched the 'let's have a kid' scene I had to double take.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 23:28:17 GMT
Uh, yeah, since I'm no longer that bothered about the game I just caved and watched the majority of the Gil romance and lmao what the hell. It's like something from Queer As Folk or Coming Out On Top. It feels totally divorced from Mass Effect.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 23:16:21 GMT
A bi Jaal mod really doesn't fix much because, from a gaming perspective, the game will never acknowledge or react to your relationship as it truly is (and imagine if this becomes a trilogy or something, so three games of modded scraps). And from a (dare I say it) political perspective, the glaring insult to gay men still stands. Bioware invited you to their birthday party and told you you can only have cake if you sit at a different fucking table to everyone else. Don't forget that. Yeah, but wouldnt a well done and popular bi-Jaal mod at least send a message akin to taking your table, putting it next to the guy-who-singled-you-out's seat and eat your own cake right in front of him? Maybe hell get so emberassed; you get so much support from the other guests; or both, that he lets you sit at the main table next time? Presumably while muttering apologies? Except this is basically what happened with Kaidan in the original trilogy, it took them three games to get there, and then they reverted back to their original behaviour a game later.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 23:05:42 GMT
I don't get who BioWare are trying to please exactly. Both sides of the fanbase seem to hate them equally now The only way to please a certain crowd would be to have only female LIs for either Scott or Sara. The very act of creating content for us makes them angry, but we're not happy because they didn't create nearly enough. Oy. This was so poorly thought through. Exactly! By being fucking cowardly they've neither stood by the gay community OR excluded them to the degree that certain groups will accept. So there will still be constant complaints about Bioware forcing their 'agenda' on people AND gay guys pissed that they've been insulted. Genius move, brah.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 22:55:46 GMT
Hmm. I just watched the Cora scene and I noticed that you have the option to NOT progress to sex. Do they gay romances get that option?
Also, I really wasn't bothered about the sex scenes but seeing how surprisingly well animated that was and how much care went into minute details like lip movements...yeah, a fade to black for m/m is starting to piss me off. It really is just scraps.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 22:44:52 GMT
I hate jumping on conspiracy theory bandwagons but when EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF THE DESIGN is made to shut male/male off to the side while specifically focusing on the female body in every single sex scene I call freaking foul. What did marketing fear the bigoted raging mass of "SJW are out to get us" and demand this nonsense? If it was just one or a couple things I'd not be so upset, but EVERY single factor that could possibly snub gay men is in play. Every. Single. One. other than there just not being m/m romance at all.True. In the end, gay men get fukt in almost every category. 1) Least amount of options 2) Both options are NPC with CC face 3) Both options aren't that story relevant 4) Gay guy has a romance/story that again, highlights his gayness, just like with Steve and Dorian 5) No male m/m alien 6) Fade-to-black sex scenes 7) Most likely less story/romance content So yeah, it's pretty annoying, to say the least. Hold up. One of the options, again, revolves around DON'T KNOW HOW TO SPOILER TAG ON PHONE SO MILD SPOILER being gay?? Homophobia, as stated by the creators, is no longer even a thing in the ME universe. There should not be any gay existential issue plots. That, ahem, doesn't make sense.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 22:40:02 GMT
A bi Jaal mod really doesn't fix much because, from a gaming perspective, the game will never acknowledge or react to your relationship as it truly is (and imagine if this becomes a trilogy or something, so three games of modded scraps). And from a (dare I say it) political perspective, the glaring insult to gay men still stands. Bioware invited you to their birthday party and told you you can only have cake if you sit at a different fucking table to everyone else. Don't forget that.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 22:30:21 GMT
Imma mod the shit out of Fallout 4 and replay that instead. Come through, gay rage! They have the top tier husbando anyway. They do after I've modded a hefty beard and 50 pounds of muscle/fat on to him.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 22:25:56 GMT
Yeah, Bioware reaaaally needs to drop the 'we're so progressive, be kind to each other gaiz' narrative when they've been cucked by a bunch of Trump voting basement dwellers. Excellent use of the pejorative "cuck" here, well done. Only lacks "snowflakes" and "triggered." Well they clearly have done it so as not to trigger homophobic snowflakes.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 22:16:49 GMT
Imma mod the shit out of Fallout 4 and replay that instead. Come through, gay rage!
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 22:02:12 GMT
I'll try to give Bioware a pass right now, Believing that this decision had nothing to do with the writers or the devs themselves, but the managing had something to do with it I mean we have evidence that Jaal was bi at some point, or at least planned to be, maybe there was pressure coming down from EA, and not surprisingly it's us getting shafted again. I'm still thankful for the stuff they presented us with, it's just tiring that we always get the short end of the stick. The idea of him being bi and scrapped makes me feel worse somehow. People are saying Vetra's writer fought for her to be bi, why couldn't Jaal's writer fight for him? A bi female squaddie was probably a much easier fight.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 21:47:46 GMT
Yeah, Bioware reaaaally needs to drop the 'we're so progressive, be kind to each other gaiz' narrative when they've been cucked by a bunch of Trump voting basement dwellers.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 21:32:48 GMT
And as far as the 'it wouldn't make sense' argument...it doesn't make sense THAT HE'S STRAIGHT. From all we know of Angaran culture and Jaal himself, he was the perfect candidate for a pansexual squadmate. He comes from an entirely progressive, free love culture and is up for banging a woman of another species from another galaxy but won't stretch to her dude counterpart? OMG Bioware SJW pandering to red pillers and gamergaters and shit y did u make Jaal straight when he's obvs bi? I don't see why him being an alien from a different galaxy should automatically make him bisexual. From our perspective he's also an alien from another galaxy- but from what I can see he's garnering a lot of interest from users who are attracted to men and not a lot from the users who aren't. The fact that people here care about the gender of the alien LI's is more than enough proof for me that the aliens themselves would generally care about gender too. Because Jaal is a character crafted by writers who can make that mental connection between an openness to explore and a good opportunity to have a character available to both genders.
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Post by thesnarkyshaman on Mar 20, 2017 21:31:08 GMT
Also, for anyone coming across this thread baffled by the rage over a video game waifu; I actually don't much care about the romances. It's the fact that gay men, once again, are clearly treated differently to lesbians and straight guys/girls. TWO fucking squadmates, minimum, for all the others. ZERO for gay men. Just the GESTURE of one guy on the squad would have been fine for everyone here, whether he was to their taste or not. I have no doubt that this was indeed fear of backlash from a certain shitty vocal counterculture. So congrats, Bioware, on being utterly pathetic and spineless.
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