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Post by peddroelm on May 16, 2017 7:59:08 GMT
While you could do play her as a (poor mobility thus lackluster) shotgun user with the *1.4 debuff damage within annihilation range her melee skills deserve a closer look at. Her melee attack (base 400 damage) conveniently IGNORES COVER and seems to have slighly higher AOE range than most other melee attacks. *1 Multipliers vs health, shields and armor. Pull hold + melee applies a *3 multiplier to the damage applied on AOE ( and provides extra "ghost" melee strikes to targets in AOE range at high FPS settings) and can apply the extra pull 5B expose 30% debuff BUT ONLY TO pulled targets (up to two). This 30% extra debuff is mostly irrelevant on a melee build since all redbars will die without it !!OVERKILL!! and might only be relevant if you like to SYNC KILL orbless Ascendants. (they have the Hitpoints to survive multiple whacks). Do to the lack of multiplicative melee damage bonuses in Andromeda getting the basic melee attack to 1 hit mooks on gold difficulty is problematic .. (NOTE a melee build will easily 1 shot kill all humanoids on gold with PULL HOLD + melee a redbar near them BUT pull is on a cooldown). Her game becomes much more dynamic/fluid when she gets to the point when she can 1 shot mooks with the basic melee attack WHICH IS SPAMMABLE, has decent AOE and as mentioned before ignores cover .. Potential melee damage sources: Permanent (always on): 0.25: hidden class bonus (side note Krogan Mercenary gets 0.5) 0.1: ruzad shotgun 0.33: shotgun melee mod X 0.7: rage (2: 0.2 ; 4b: 0.25 ; 6a: 0.25) 0.75: Juggernaut shield gear. 0.6: strength enhancer booster consumable IV (I:0.15; II: 0.3; III: 0.45; IV: 0.6) Regular attack : 400 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6) * 1.4 = 2088.8 (1 shot kill gold adhi) Jump Melee AOE component: 385 * 0.667 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6) * 1.4 = 1340.983 (land near target) Jump Melee Direct impact 385 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6) * 1.4 = 2010.47 (land on target) Hold Pull + melee: 400 * 3 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6) * 1.4 = 6266.4 (1 shot kill gold mooks wraith, agent/pariah, destined, anointed, etc..) temporary: 0.3125: rage on adds tiny bit of melee damage (1:0.25 ; 4b: 0.0625 !!!) 0.5: 3 seconds after Nova, Iffy with pull, Offensive Biotics 6b biotic warrior (can "spam" nova with 6b shield powered) 0.65: 10 seconds Rage 5b martial artist [DURATION IS A BAD JOKE] Maximal (damage numbers) Regular attack : 400 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6 + 0.3125 + 0.5 + 0.65) * 1.4 = 2907.8 (1 shot red bars) Jump Melee AOE component: 385 * 0.667 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6 + 0.3125 + 0.5 + 0.65) * 1.4 = 1866.771 (land near target) Jump Melee Direct impact 385 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6 + 0.3125 + 0.5 + 0.65) * 1.4 = 2798.757 (land on target) Hold Pull + melee: 400 * 3 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6 + 0.3125 + 0.5 + 0.65) * 1.4 = 8723.4 (AOE) Hold Pull + melee: 400 * 3 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6 + 0.3125 + 0.5 + 0.65) * 1.7 = 10592.7 (with pull debuff vs pulled) A lot of mandatory perks for an ultrarare class.. rage: 6a annihilation: 5a debuff, 6a draining field. passive: 5a debuff, 6b temp melee buff nice to have 6a shield powered nova and pull debuff (for 2 hammer hit ascendent kill sync .. temp melee bonuses will not always be on) Need to look a bit into annihilation 6a: draining filed (needs to be killed by anni DOT tick AKA shit) or needs to be within anni range when killed for cooldwonless nova I Frames. EDIT I DID - it works on (melee)kills.table of enemy hitpoint values:
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Post by xaijin on May 16, 2017 8:09:52 GMT
Montreal does not get krogan.
As I've stated elsewhence krogan melee should be 600 base and ignore armor entirely.
Basically she can shine but you literally have to play like a missile glitcher and find a mixed mob, pile into them and hope A your gimmick works B your gimmick works that way it's supposed to and C everyone is polite and waits for you to smash the shit out of them in a nice group.
Basically on any team with a dedicated sniper she's actually a liability at best or troll bait at worst unless you have direct voice comms.
Melee in AMP is just kind of a mess; dashing melee has variable length, they needed to add iframes to even justify having a sword, and the character with a hammer can only things directly above or in front of her.
Melee was my favorite thing about 3mp, and i can't even bother to use it AMP except to headbutt slide into a target so I can flak cannon the guys behind that one and then finish them off with flamer for the max DoTs.
In a world where you throw people into other people not having those options for melee is what we in game design call 'some ol' bullshit'.
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VictusKeld
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by VictusKeld on May 16, 2017 13:27:04 GMT
temporary: 0.3125: rage on adds tiny bit of melee damage (1:0.25 ; 4b: 0.0625 !!!) Does this apply to 6a as well?
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Post by peddroelm on May 16, 2017 13:30:48 GMT
temporary: 0.3125: rage on adds tiny bit of melee damage (1:0.25 ; 4b: 0.0625 !!!) Does this apply to 6a as well? > 0.7: rage (2: 0.2 ; 4b: 0.25 ; 6a: 0.25) are passive always on bonuses. Have noting to do with rage on/off status.
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Post by VictusKeld on May 16, 2017 14:02:50 GMT
Does this apply to 6a as well? > 0.7: rage (2: 0.2 ; 4b: 0.25 ; 6a: 0.25) are passive always on bonuses. Have noting to do with rage on/off status. Got it, or I think I do, 4b is included in the temporary bonus section because unlike 6a it also has a "25% melee bonus while enraged" effect? Wasn't familiar enough with the Rage passive tree and had to start up my game to check it out for clarification. If so, the whole grinding my gears thing still applies as the way it is written suggested to me that it would have stacked additively with the original Rage melee bonus of 25% for 50% instead of stacking multiplicatively for a total of 31.25%.
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TheThirdRace
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MEA MP Builder
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheThirdRace on May 16, 2017 15:14:40 GMT
Does the Pull + Melee applies the same 3x multiplier with other characters? (namely the Human Adept and Human Kineticist)
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Post by peddroelm on May 16, 2017 15:17:09 GMT
Does the Pull + Melee applies the same 3x multiplier with other characters? (namely the Human Adept and Human Kineticist) nope. It does apply the debuff .
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 9, 2017 10:08:21 GMT
1.08 update
Permanent (always on): 0.25: hidden class bonus (side note Krogan Mercenary gets 0.5) 0.1: ruzad shotgun 0.33: shotgun melee mod X 0.65: rage (2: 0.15 ; 4b: 0.25 ; 6a: 0.25) 0.15: Juggernaut shield gear. 0.6: strength enhancer booster consumable IV (I:0.15; II: 0.3; III: 0.45; IV: 0.6)
hammer damage numbers with annihilation field on (lower pull recharge)
645 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.65 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 2239.44 // no melee booster 645 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.65 + 0.15 + 0.6) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 2781.24 // 60% MD booster
with rage on 645 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.65 + 0.15 + 0.25 + 0.0625) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 2521.6275 // she should be able to 1 "shot" gold redbars through cover without melee booster
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Post by N7Mith on Jun 9, 2017 14:18:15 GMT
So Ruzad and Melee mod do stack? In a stream the devs said the mod replaces the Ruzad bonus. Not that it not doing that is a surprise
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jadedragonmtr
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by jadedragonmtr on Jun 9, 2017 15:42:50 GMT
This probably has been covered before, sorry if it has. But does her melee enjoy any iFrame?
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Post by mrfuddyduddy on Jun 9, 2017 15:49:47 GMT
Hold Pull + melee: 400 * 3 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6 + 0.3125 + 0.5 + 0.65) * 1.7 = 10592.7 (with pull debuff vs pulled) Too bad we can't use Pull and other lifting abilities on stuff like Hydra's.
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 9, 2017 15:55:22 GMT
This probably has been covered before, sorry if it has. But does her melee enjoy any iFrame? don't think so
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Post by N7Mith on Jun 9, 2017 16:05:55 GMT
Hold Pull + melee: 400 * 3 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.7 + 0.75 + 0.6 + 0.3125 + 0.5 + 0.65) * 1.7 = 10592.7 (with pull debuff vs pulled) Too bad we can't use Pull and other lifting abilities on stuff like Hydra's. You can walk up to them while holding a mook, then melee with full buff. It's risky though
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TheThirdRace
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MEA MP Builder
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TheThirdRace
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Post by TheThirdRace on Jun 9, 2017 17:47:11 GMT
Too bad we can't use Pull and other lifting abilities on stuff like Hydra's. You can walk up to them while holding a mook, then melee with full buff. It's risky though You can walk up to them with a Barrel too. The real question: Since I can pull a chair or any kind of trash from the map, does the AOE 3x bonus works with that too?
I'm doubting it, but you can Pull + Throw garbage with the Kineticist just fine. Imagine, you if could Pull a chair and hit with a 3x bonus on everything (and the chair is indestructible so you can Pull it again and again... Infinite "ammo"...)
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Post by poultrymancer on Jun 9, 2017 18:05:47 GMT
So Ruzad and Melee mod do stack? In a stream the devs said the mod replaces the Ruzad bonus. Not that it not doing that is a surprise I really wish the Ruzad either: (1) got a native melee bonus on par with the mod but couldn't stack with it; or (2) retained its appearance with the mod equipped. It just looks so perfect with that giant curved blade that I can't in good conscience equip the wimpy-looking mod. It might be bit OP with barrel, choke and a native 33% melee bonus, but no more than the reload-canceled Claymore of 3. And its glacial reload speed, IMO, would make up for the advantage.
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 20, 2017 7:50:19 GMT
new gladiator 1.08 update - relevant to shieldgate
While the regular melee damage was upgraded to 645 the pull + hammer base damage remains 400 * 3 and NOT 654 *3 as I initially assumed.
Which means NO HOPE of 1 hit killing fully shielded enemies but could work vs very low shield values. 1200 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.65 + 0.15 + (0.25 * 1.25)) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 4691.4 .
EDIT actually with IV strength booster and universal power amp IV it can get pretty close. (enough for destined not enough for anointed) EDIT 2: forgot biotic warrior which is triggered by pull (tapped and held) - so doable with boosters
1200 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.65 + 0.15 + (0.25 * 1.25) + 0.5 + 0.6 + 0.2) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 6875.4
test numbers 1 shot kill nearly fully shielded Destined pull + hammer
HP, 9024843, 265, 988B4C80, 2256.250, 1937.750, 1885.250, -52.500 // anni dot on pulled chosen HP, 9024906, 63, 988B4C80, 2256.250, 1885.250, 0.000, -1885.250 // pulled chosen massively overkilled SH, 9024921, 15, 957F0140, 1187.500, 1089.500, 0.000, -1089.500 //destined shield damage with spill to gate SG, 9024937, 16, 957F0140, 0.100, 1995.000, -2446.900, -4441.900 //destined gate with spill to health HP, 9024937, 0, 957F0140, 2375.000, 2326.000, 0.000, -2326.000 // destined health overkill 4441.9 - 1995 - 2375 = 71.9
1089.5 + 4441.9 = 5531.4 1200 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.33 + 0.65 + 0.15 + (0.25 * 1.25) + 0.5) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 5531.4
Love it when theory-crafting and test results match perfectly.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 20, 2017 8:43:06 GMT
*sigh*
What happened to "The slow blade penetrates the shield."
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 20, 2017 8:51:12 GMT
*sigh* What happened to "The slow blade penetrates the shield."slow blades cannot do it in 1.08. But the pull + slow hammer can sometimes do it ..Even without multi-hit bug ..
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guanxi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Jun 20, 2017 9:19:55 GMT
Is there any reason to take more than 1 point in nova? This seems to be the only build which makes sense to me.
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 20, 2017 9:27:23 GMT
Is there any reason to take more than 1 point in nova? This seems to be the only build which makes sense to me. Draining field synergies so well with unstoppable tho .. I prefer draining field to vortex. It often allows you to solo spawns that lack the DPS to take you down in time .. Will post a build guilde soon .. reddit guide link
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guanxi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: guanxi
Posts: 843 Likes: 1,011
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Post by guanxi on Jun 20, 2017 10:31:06 GMT
Is there any reason to take more than 1 point in nova? This seems to be the only build which makes sense to me. Draining field synergies so well with unstoppable tho .. I prefer draining field to vortex. It often allows you to solo spawns that lack the DPS to take you down in time .. Will post a build guilde soon .. reddit guide linkI used to roll with Drain but vortex is just so damn good with the hammer I can't imagine melee without it now. Drain on Pull and a cyclonic seems to do the job.
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 20, 2017 11:13:06 GMT
Can you consistently one hammer redbars without pull without level 4 boosters? Even if its after a kill or two for the ramping melee bonus is okay. If I could do that I would consider turning annihilation back on after wave 3...
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 20, 2017 11:15:00 GMT
Can you consistently one hammer redbars without pull without level 4 boosters? Even if its after a kill or two for the ramping melee bonus is okay. If I could do that I would consider turning annihilation back on after wave 3... rage (2 kills) is enough. no need for boosters. Having annihilation on from wave 1 changes the play-style - it rewards Leroy Jenkinsness super aggressive behavior with the DR on kill and shield drain. Turns her into some sort of slow traveling reverse vanguard.
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Post by killabkilledb on Jun 20, 2017 11:23:11 GMT
Can you consistently one hammer redbars without pull without level 4 boosters? Even if its after a kill or two for the ramping melee bonus is okay. If I could do that I would consider turning annihilation back on after wave 3... rage (2 kills) is enough. no need for boosters. Having annihilation on from wave 1 changes the play-style - it rewards Leroy Jenkinsness super aggressive behavior with the DR on kill and shield drain. Turns her into some sort of slow traveling reverse vanguard. I'll have to give the annihilation build a serious go then now. Do I have to take both melee options in rage ranks 4 and 5? I'm guessing draining field will more than compensate but I usually go up now in the rage/health passive...
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 20, 2017 11:48:10 GMT
rage (2 kills) is enough. no need for boosters. Having annihilation on from wave 1 changes the play-style - it rewards Leroy Jenkinsness super aggressive behavior with the DR on kill and shield drain. Turns her into some sort of slow traveling reverse vanguard. I'll have to give the annihilation build a serious go then now. Do I have to take both melee options in rage ranks 4 and 5? I'm guessing draining field will more than compensate but I usually go up now in the rage/health passive... www.reddit.com/r/MECoOp/comments/6iczd1/108_krogan_gladiator_x_build_example/ . No martial arts. Unstoppable is too cool.
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