Had Old God Worship already waned BEFORE the 1st Blight?

I think it was still the dominant religion, just that it wasn't as powerful as it once once and didn't have the same political force it once had - a vaguely remember that this was in the world of thedas books? The priests used to have a lot of say as a political force but it was at that point turned to mostly a religious role and no longer had the same level of influence. The only point I'm not sure about was did this wane in power come before or after the Old Gods stopped talking? Some codexes make it seem that the priests had stopped hearing the voices of the Old Gods for a long while and their search for them lead to the Old Gods giving instruction to enter the Golden City. It could be that there was a period of silence from the Old Gods before the first Blight. This would raise the question, that where the Old Gods who first spoke to the dreamers and taught blood magic in Ancient Tevinter, the same as the ones who convinced the Priests to enter the Golden City? This could explain why the Old Gods share traits with both the Elhven Pantheon and the Forgotton ones

This is what exactly I want to know.

If she was telling the truth when we meet her with Kieran, it would seem it was some sort of rescue mission: "snatched from the jaws of darkness" or at least a salvage operation. It seems inconceivable to me that we can have two entirely separate sets of gods who were imprisoned with no relationship between them at all. What wasn't make clear was what the term "Evanuris" applied to: just the Creators or the Forgotten Ones as well? Dalish lore, which has been far more accurate than the words put in our mouths make out, states that just before they were imprisoned these two sets of gods were at war with one another. That could very well have threatened to destroy the world.

If the Old God dragons were actually the earthly manifestation of the Forgotten Ones, then that would fit with the idea that Fen'Harel confined them to the Abyss, which in this case is the depths of the earth. Alternatively, they could be the split soul of the Creator gods or possibly their "chosen" who went into uthenera to await their return, so weren't actually imprisoned at all. In the old text that can be found in the ToM but can only be read if you drink from the Well, it says about the judgement against the sinner that: "He took on a form reserved for the gods and their chosen, and dared to fly in the shape of the divine". So clearly the Creators weren't the only ones who were permitted to take the form of dragons. This latter scenario would also account for why the ancient Tevinter seem to have actually seen their gods in the flesh and painted accurate depictions of them in their Temples, because they didn't go into hibernation until after they had made contact with the early humans. Of course the priesthood could also have done this through seeing them in their dreams.

I think that it is more likely that Old Gods were probably some of the Forgotten Ones, their power being similar. A dragon as a "Divine form" reserved for the Evanuris and their servants. I imagine that they took those forms to slight them.
Erasthenes, Calpernia's old master likened the power of the Well of Sorrows to Urthemiel's, who is "coincidentally" the Old God inhabiting Kieran.
While Solas may claim the their is no connection between the Elves and the Old Gods, remember that he is the Dread Wolf, and the fact that they were the 'Forgotten' Ones.
That's my two cents anyway.

Flemeth wasn't born until 3.00 Towers, so would only have been 10 years old at the time the 3rd Blight started and 25 years old when it finished. So it is likely she had not yet left her husband or exacted her revenge on him. If Mythal needed a mortal vessel to put her plan into action then she was unable to act for the first 3 Blights. It is possible that she or one of her daughters did approach someone, even Garahel, at the time of the 4th Blight and was refused. Or may be she was never bothered about the first 4 but there was something specific to Urthemiel she wanted to save. This would account for why she specifically sought out a mortal vessel in the area of Ferelden, since it would seem that Urthemiel was located in the Deep Roads under this region.

Whilst Kieran says some rather odd things in his OGB form, he still comes across as something of an innocent. If this was the soul of an Evanuris may be he wasn't guilty of the death of Mythal but got punished along with the rest and since Mythal is meant to be the mother of the other gods in Dalish lore, perhaps she did feel protective towards him. Of the various Creators I would say that Urthemiel's area of interest most closely matches that of June, particulary since DAI threw doubt on the definition of June as merely the god of crafting. Urthemiel's high priest was known as the Architect of the Works of Beauty and Mythal was known for building cities. So may be between them they did construct all the magical marvels that Solas so fondly recalls. So if you want revenge but then to restore what was lost, she needed his knowledge.

There is definitely something significant about the Old Gods with regard to Solas' plans. He was beside himself at the thought of the Grey Wardens going into the Deep Roads to kill the last two of them and I'm pretty sure that had nothing to do with the morality of using blood magic or a demon army. I'm also fairly certain that when the Grey Warden kills the arch-demon, it doesn't destroy its soul but simply releases it from the cycle of re-birth in the mortal world and allows it to return to the Fade/Void, which means it would be beyond his control.

Can you point to the reference that says that a division between religion and state had already occurred at the time of Corypheus?

According to Chantry Lore, which may be wrong but is likely based off Hessarian's records (which may of course be biased) the reason for the necessity of the Transfiguration was that majority of the leading Altus Magisters, which included the highest ranking clergy of the Old Gods, refused to give up their worship of them. It also says that many of the lower ranking Laetans refused to do so as well. The only people who supported Hessarian's move were the Soporati. When Hessarian started his state religion he was both High Priest and Archon of the Imperium and so far as I can tell that had been the situation since the time of Darinius. He was High Priest of Dumat as well as the first Archon and he formed the first Magisterium from the priesthood of Old Gods. I have seen nothing to suggest that this strong link between the religion of the Imperium and the governing of the state had changed by the time of Corypheus and it certainly seemed to have continued much the same way right up until the time of Hessarian, despite what occurred during the 1st Blight, even though the common people seemed to have lost faith in their gods.

Now it is possible that Corypheus was speaking of the Soporati in his time when he says they need to return the people to the worship of the Old Gods but then that would suggest the Magisterium was feeling under threat at that time from the masses. There is nothing in the histories I have read that suggests that pressure was being applied by the underclass at this time. In any case, the whole idea is that magic is a gift from the gods and demonstrates your right to rule over others, so if the mundanes didn't like it, the response would be to make an example of them, not attempt some audacious piece of magic in secret that even the Archon and the rest of the Magisterium were unaware of.

Clearly something important is missing from the histories we have been given up to now. Perhaps we can expect similar revelations about the Imperium that we were given regarding the ancient elven empire. After all we know now that whatever they conquered up in the Arlathan Forest wasn't the real Arlathan. I think the priesthood of the Old Gods knew that much of their original power came from knowledge stolen from the elves and without it they weren't nearly as impressive as they needed to be to keep control of the masses. The mundanes were gradually becoming more aware of their weakness and no longer thought the mages had divine right to rule over them.

Corypheus also seemed well aware of a connection between the elves and the Fade that he stated to his servant, so clearly not all his knowledge came from the orb. It is why he particularly wanted to use the blood of elves in his ritual. Was Corypheus aware that the Veil was an artificial construct and not part of the original fabric of the world? Was this why he knew it would be possible to break through it? Was he also aware of the origins of the Golden City? May be he was hoping to discover something significant to impress the masses into cowering subservience once more.

The thing is Dumat didn't rise as the arch-demon until after Corypheus went to the Black City, so that wasn't the cause of the loss of faith during his time. The words of the servant suggest that the priesthood were worried about a loss of faith. Now we know from the Chantry religion that people seem to require very little from their god to maintain their worship. The Maker has done absolutely nothing for anyone, even Andraste when she was threatened with death, and yet apparently the masses continue to have faith in him. Back in the time of the Old Gods the priesthood had originally obtained tangible benefits from their worship.

What I'm wondering is whether the resistance of the barbarians in the south was already causing the mundanes in the population to question the authority of the priesthood and the Magisters in general long before the advent of Andraste? It would seem that huge resources had been committed to trying to conquer the south of the Waking Sea and their hold was only tenuous at best. May be people were questioning why the Old Gods, such as Dumat, were no longer giving them dominance in the way they had done in the past against Barindur, the Ingrish and the elves. This would then account for why Corypheus thought an audacious piece of magic, such as had never been attempted before, at the urging of his god (the servant says he will listen to nothing but the voices in his dreams) would impress on the faithless that the Old Gods should still be respected.

He called it the "Throne of the Gods" because allegedly that is what the ancient Tevinter believed the Golden City to be, the home of their gods, just as the elves did. I must admit I'm not sure how the Dalish view it because by the time of the Dales it would have been changed to Black. So did they still believe it to be the home of their gods? I definitely think whatever being urged the Magisters to go there wanted to break the seal on somewhere, possibly that place we saw the elves sealing in Solas' memory, and release whatever had been trapped within.

Without a doubt the taint existed long before the Magisters went to the city. Since red lyrium is tainted lyrium and the ancient thaig in DA2 pre-dated the 1st Blight, that means there was Blight in the Deep Roads long before that time. I still say the idol makes me think of Flemeth and since Mythal is known to have been busy in the Deep Roads havesting Titans for their lyrium, it does seem to me that it was something that either Mythal or the other Evanuris did that tainted the lyrium and started the Blight. I have a feeling that red lyrium came first and not vice versa, so it was the red lyrium that caused the corruption of everything else.

The Dalish also call the Blight and the place it originated Banalhan, literally "the place of nothing", which to my mind is another word for the Void, where we know Andruil brought plague from even though the Dalish were unaware of the story. Since these beliefs are found in nobody else's folklore, they can only come from their own racial memory.

From what I can tell from the Wiki, the Inquisitor wasn't the first person to encounter that Titan. It seems to have featured in the Calling as well, although they didn't encounter any strange dwarves guarding it, so was that another Titan? In any case, in both instances it seemed a place that was free of darkspawn and their corruption, so possible immune to it because it is still a living Titan and its blood is pure.

When the Breach occurred it stirred the Titan but did not cause it to fully awaken. May be if the Veil is removed entirely it will. Perhaps that will be the key to ending the Blight.

I would still like to know what Corypheus and Co were doing for the entirety of the 1st Blight. The Wardens only discovered Corypheus after it was ended. Did the rise of Dumat cause them to go into a magical sleep from which only his death released them?

The Dalish call it the Eternal City and they also have stories about it being golden (from their ancestors). It's in one of the Volume of Thedas books. 

We can add the Avvar to the list of "thrones of the gods" too. Korth's legends says that "When the world was young, Korth the Mountain-Father kept his throne at the peak of Belenas, the mountain that lies at the center of the world, from which he could see all the corners of earth and sky". The term sky is sometimes interchangeable with Fade, especially pre-Veil. Interesting enough, Belenas was said to be destroyed when Korth fought a great serpent at the base of it. It's is a similar legend to Mythal turning into a huge serpent and fighting Andruil at the base of a mountain (and it's not the only story that link Korth's mythos to Andruil's might I add). Then you add that Korth's description scream Titan...

Thinking about it, what whispered to the Magisters could have been the (or a) Titans instead of the actual Old Gods. A blighted Titan...

I'm going to point out that Solas does not say definitely that the Old Gods and his people aren't connected he says there is nothing in the lore that connects them. Solas obviously knows more about them than he is willing to say and hides behind the known knowledge of the day, that the old gods are not the gods of the Elvhen. I mean why else would he flip out so much at the idea of the Grey Wardens killing all the 'Old Gods' unless they have some significance to the ancient elves?

Solas almost makes it sound like, what modern day people call the Old God dragons, the dragons that get corrupted into archdemons, are guarding something. Something even worse than the Blight. If so, what is it?

I wonder if the Old Gods are what remains of the dragons prior to the rise of the Elvhen? Drake's fall is littered with "primordial" dragon bones that are similar to the Old Gods themselves:



The interesting thing about Drake's Fall is that the area was obviously important to the Elvhen. There was a Varterral guarding the area. The place with the Eluvian had upside-down buildings similar to the ruins of Vir Dirthara.

Could the Evanuris have hunted these dragons to near-extinction until Mythal stopped them? Could Dragons have been the "sun" that Elgar'nan plunged deep into the Earth as punishment? Could these dragons be elf-turned-dragons?

Visus represent one of the Lady of the Skies's eye.

The Lady of the Skies is tied to birds, not dragons. I remember seeing some text that suggest she doesn't like dragons but can't find it right now. I always found her to have more in commons with Andruil than Mythal personally. Sacrifices, hunting and birds: hawk, owl -Andruil's messenger- and a certain hare-footed bird (ptarmigan)...the last one is such a clever thing that I don't believe it's a coincidence. 

Of course that clash with Korth = Andruil. It's true that they have similar tales, so their action matches, but their identities do not. Something doesn't add up. My current idea is that Andruil was the champion of a Titan (Korth) and that she was absorbed into the elven pantheon after she lost the war (with Mythal mind-screwed her).

Oh and this person has an interesting take on it.


As for a mix of Avvar and Elves, we already saw proof of that in the Brecilian's forest ruins. Also, Razikale = Lady of the Skies is rather interesting to look at.