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Post by alanc9 on Nov 14, 2017 7:52:38 GMT
Depends on how you're defining "open world" and "high fantasy." A lot of BG1 happened in fairly large overland map areas (smaller than DAI zones, but there were more of them.) Unlike in DAI, they were all one large contiguous area.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Nov 14, 2017 10:04:09 GMT
Whilst I overall liked Trespasser, the biggest problem I had with it was at the end, Solas effectively became Coryphius 2.0, I mean they have the same task & the same goal; tear down they veil & restore a world that was for them, that's my only problem with it. Just my opinion. Solas admits he used his agents to manipulate Corypheus, they don't have the same goals. Solas simply re-purposed Corypheus's goal to achieve godhood for his own plan of tearing down the Veil. It was pride that caused the Magisters to usurp heaven...both times Oh I get that, the problem comes from at the end of Trespasser both Solas & Corypheus are indistinguishable as characters, both are ancient powerful mages, both have an army of devout followers who believe they are following a god (despite how Solas may say it, his Elven followers believe he's the Dread Wolf of legend), both want to use ancient Elven magic to tear down the veil & destroy the world & both believe that they are going to restore the glory of the old ways. The only difference is; Solas knows he has adversaries as powerful as/more powerful than him, should his plan succeed & Corypheus simply believed he would elevate to godhood. Anyway, it's all subjective at the moment, we need to wait & see just how Solas will be written in DA4 to say for sure. Sorry about the late reply. Additional: I seem to have misspelled Corypheus in my original post, bollocks
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 14, 2017 12:06:04 GMT
I haven't played either BG games, but I wasn't a fan of the open world MMO zones or DAI Corypheus (he's good as fuck in Legacy, though). Was BG1 open world or was it more high fantasy? I wouldn't necessarily call it open world. It was an isometric view so you were looking down on your party from above. What you did have was the "Fog of War" effect so until you had explored an area, even if you had moved to it, it would be blacked out. When you moved from one area to another there were loading screens and the possibility of a random encounter. This was actually quite significant because time mattered in that game. It took different amounts of time to travel between different areas. If your characters went longer than 24 hours without sleep they became overtired and weren't as effective fighting. Also you needed to sleep to restore the spells you had used. There were day/night cycles, which was particularly important when you got to BG2 because vampires only come out at night. Some areas were highly relevant to the main plot line whilst others were just places you could explore, have encounters with enemies and possibly with potential allies. Some valuable items might also be hidden beneath a rock or under a tree, so people who like to search every last blade of grass would be rewarded for their efforts. It was definitely high fantasy with fantastical beasts and a far greater range of spells than in DA universe but certain spells could only be accessed once you got to higher levels and, as I say above, once you had used a spell you needed to sleep before you could use it again. So there was a lot of planning ahead involved because what you might need in one area might not be so useful in another. There were some seriously awesome bad guys in the games and encounters with them were truly challenging. What BG and BG2 were both good at was the cityscapes. Baldurs Gate itself was a proper city that you could travel around with multiple areas and different things going on in them. Plus if you broke into someone's house and took stuff there was actually a chance you would be accosted by guards so it actually seemed more realistic. BG2 had the city Athkatla that was even better than Baldurs Gate. Some areas had their own distinctive background music. For example the market had music that made you think of a middle eastern bazaar. In Athkalta you could only use magic if you had a licence from the authorities. If you used it without this you got one warning and then you would be arrested. There were lots of NPCs wandering around. Prostitutes stood on street corners and propositioned you. Thieves might pick-pocket you. Beggars asked for money. Take a side alley in a shady part of town and you might be mugged. The cities felt alive. If they have Minrathous in DA4 and it doesn't approach what they did in BG series with major cities I shall be very disappointed.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 14, 2017 12:42:08 GMT
Oh I didn't realise they made a 'DAK' for Mass Effect. I just took a look. It's unappealing since I don't consider Andromeda ME. After that game, ME has officially died for me. That was the nail in the coffin. I've moved with FemShep to a alternate universe via fanfic. Any future title in the Andro universe is not going to hold any shred of interest so the ME DAK is hardly going to be useful, for me. But I can see its usefulness for others. Tis a good concept. The annoying thing about the Archives compared to the Keep is is the Keep is actually useful for DAI runthroughs while the Archives are completely useless. Though, I have to wonder why they add it now with no confirmation of a new game being made a this point. The Archives update seems like a waste of time. As far as I know, you can't even use it as a save import for ME3; it's just there.
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Post by wickedcool on Nov 14, 2017 15:42:52 GMT
I loved the storyline in trespasser but most of all I loved the idea of the golden nug. Having the random schematics for the next playthrough made the second time more enjoyable
Plus the added abilities
Trespasser felt like bioware learned how to drive frostbite
Also the iron bull twist is an a+
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Post by nvanfleet on Nov 14, 2017 15:43:53 GMT
Oh I didn't realise they made a 'DAK' for Mass Effect. I just took a look. It's unappealing since I don't consider Andromeda ME. After that game, ME has officially died for me. That was the nail in the coffin. I've moved with FemShep to a alternate universe via fanfic. Any future title in the Andro universe is not going to hold any shred of interest so the ME DAK is hardly going to be useful, for me. But I can see its usefulness for others. Tis a good concept. The annoying thing about the Archives compared to the Keep is is the Keep is actually useful for DAI runthroughs while the Archives are completely useless. Though, I have to wonder why they add it now with no confirmation of a new game being made a this point. The Archives update seems like a waste of time. As far as I know, you can't even use it as a save import for ME3; it's just there. On the contrary, I think adding the Mass Effect Archives is a low-key way of telling us that It Isn't Over. It may be a while after this last stumble, but they haven't given up yet.
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Post by phoray on Nov 14, 2017 15:53:08 GMT
Oh I didn't realise they made a 'DAK' for Mass Effect. I just took a look. It's unappealing since I don't consider Andromeda ME. After that game, ME has officially died for me. That was the nail in the coffin. I've moved with FemShep to a alternate universe via fanfic. Any future title in the Andro universe is not going to hold any shred of interest so the ME DAK is hardly going to be useful, for me. But I can see its usefulness for others. Tis a good concept. I mean, MEA may as well be a mild paralell universa considering the vastly different timeline. Andromeda was Andromeda so that it would never touch the timeline/universe of the OT. Does it really interfere that much with the OT for you?
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Post by tacsear on Nov 14, 2017 16:40:36 GMT
Don't get this wrong, but there are certain games out there that cannot be considered as "bad" even though some people don't like it. Mainly because the amount of work and "soul" the developers put into it. I believe Trespasser is one of them.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Nov 14, 2017 18:17:20 GMT
I haven't played either BG games, but I wasn't a fan of the open world MMO zones or DAI Corypheus (he's good as fuck in Legacy, though). Was BG1 open world or was it more high fantasy? I had no interest in Corypheus in Legacy, but that was more the fault of Hawke and DA2's overall design than Cory himself. In hindsight I really like DA2's story, but it was just an awful game to play. Both BG and BG2 involved sone exploration of open areas, but the main difference is that BG2 only let you visit an area if you had a relevant quest to take you there (DAO did the same thing), whereas in BG you could just walk off the edge of a map to see what was on the next map over. You had the freedom to go places for your own reasons, and not just because the game said you should. I don't know what you're getting at by contrasting open world with high fantasy. Those two things are unrelated.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 18:22:04 GMT
Did not like Inquisition, hated Trespasser, loved Descent. Did not play Jaws. Uninstalled the game. Still have hopes for DA4, because new protagonist, new companions and Tevinter!
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 14, 2017 22:28:06 GMT
I liked Trespasser a lot, although, on balance I preferred the main game.
I liked the evolution of the Mark/Anchor and the lore reveals. I liked how decisions from the main game affected the availability and/or arcs of companions. I liked the story, although I also found it quite linear, but that doesn't bother me as much as others.
It was better - in my view - than Jaws or Descent, but not by much over Descent (which I'm just about to play on my current playthrough). Overall, I thought it was a satisfactory conclusion to the Inquisitors role as protagonist.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 14, 2017 23:04:03 GMT
I will say it had good music especially when fighting the giant mage. One of the best fights in the game, maybe even all 3 games. The combat I liked. Very challenging especially on nightmare. I found fighting the demons the hardest part. The one part that stands out is Iron Bull. Depending on players choices or not, Bull will turn on the Inquisitor. I liked that. The meetups with the characters were alright.
The one downside is some of the goodies the player finds are only good for the dlc. Too bad those don't carry over in the nug with the golden touch.
It was unfortunate Inquisitor loses his/her arm. It would have been nice if there was an animation showing Solas removing the green stuff from the arm while its being transferred into him. The arm lives leaving a scar or two.
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Post by nvanfleet on Nov 14, 2017 23:21:45 GMT
I will say it had good music especially when fighting the giant mage. One of the best fights in the game, maybe even all 3 games. The combat I liked. Very challenging especially on nightmare. I found fighting the demons the hardest part. The one part that stands out is Iron Bull. Depending on players choices or not, Bull will turn on the Inquisitor. I liked that. The meetups with the characters were alright. The one downside is some of the goodies the player finds are only good for the dlc. Too bad those don't carry over in the nug with the golden touch. It was unfortunate Inquisitor loses his/her arm. It would have been nice if there was an animation showing Solas removing the green stuff from the arm while its being transferred into him. The arm lives leaving a scar or two. But... but... crossbow arm with the right ending slide!
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 15, 2017 0:40:58 GMT
But... but... crossbow arm with the right ending slide! No thanks. Happily, I refused to join the Red Jennies, so that wasn't forced on me.
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Post by isaidlunch on Nov 15, 2017 2:44:31 GMT
Trespasser was terrible, it's just contrived BS to force the Inquisition to disband so Mary Sue Solas can do his thing without southern Thedas and the Inquisition hunting him down.
Turning the PC and their advisors into incompetent morons is not good writing.
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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 15, 2017 5:20:17 GMT
I loved the storyline in trespasser but most of all I loved the idea of the golden nug. Having the random schematics for the next playthrough made the second time more enjoyable Plus the added abilities Trespasser felt like bioware learned how to drive frostbite Also the iron bull twist is an a+ yeah I liked the trials and the alternate skill evolutions, but the golden nug wins dlc MVP running away imo- ideally should have been in the game from the beginning but better late than never, its just such a game-changer with how expensive the high-end schematics are
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Post by fchopin on Nov 15, 2017 8:15:41 GMT
I have not played trespasser so can not say if i like it. I did buy the dlc when it first came out but have not got around to play it yet.
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 16, 2017 20:10:29 GMT
I really didn’tlike The highly restrictive binary choice of what to do with the inquisition or solas, which spoiled the otherwise interesting aspects of trespasser & left me hoping da4’s protagonist can put a sword through what remains of the inquisitor.
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Post by xerrai on Nov 17, 2017 1:12:17 GMT
I actually like Trespasser. But hey, to each his own. No shame in that.
Though I suppose I admit that I largely liked the DLC because of Solas who is easily my favorite character. Both just out of personal preference and for how he will likely be instrumental in the next game (as perhaps the best villain of all my gaming experience, might I add). That's not to say that the other elements were great or anything. The endings were kinda contrived, like you said. But I suppose I wasn't let down by that and the linear storyline because I kinda expected that. Can't have the Inquisitor doing something too changing or radical can we? Not when the writers have a clear setting in mind for future games. But all in all it was good for me: it was a DLC dedicated to telling a specific story that largely centered around a specific character. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 18, 2017 13:45:14 GMT
I liked Trespasser, it had a mystical flair I really invested in - especially the mirror crossroads (a bit like Lovecrafts Dreamlands or Stranger Things Upside Down), but I do understand, if that is not everyones cup of tea. I didn't like Jaws that much - I found it a bit messy to be honest and some quests were hard to find.
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Nov 18, 2017 15:30:39 GMT
I thought Trespasser was the best of the DLC's, but it wasn't amazing. As Sylvius says, Solas was never the most interesting of companions, so I never felt that invested. The fights were made difficult by just giving the Qunari loads of hits, which wasn't very interesting. The actual environments were good, if linear. I could have done with more politicking and less combat. Descent I wasn't impressed with at all. Completely linear, more combats that were lots of hits/damage and the big reveal felt completely lore/world-breaking to me. Jaws of Hakkon was a better fleshed out standard zone. I wish they'd done that with Emerald Graves/Hissing Wastes/snowy area who's name escapes me at the moment. Having said that it was high-level stuff which interests me less than low-mid level content.
None of them were close to Citadel level of quality.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 18, 2017 17:13:25 GMT
Jaws of Hakkon was a better fleshed out standard zone. I wish they'd done that with Emerald Graves/Hissing Wastes/snowy area who's name escapes me at the moment. Having said that it was high-level stuff which interests me less than low-mid level content. Yeah, that's a good point. However, I think Jaws, with that particular storyline, is better suited to post-game content. Even ignoring the level requirement, it just makes more sense to me for the Inquisitor to take the time to seek out the remains of the previous Inquisitor after Corypheus is defeated. Even Descent, with its concerns with the lyrium supply, is more germane to the base game than Jaws is, as you will have mages and templars that need access to it. All of the other zones have a connection to the goings on, even if some of them are a bit light, whereas Frostback basin does not, and the reason for going there has no significance beyond symbolism.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 18, 2017 17:32:25 GMT
Oh I didn't realise they made a 'DAK' for Mass Effect. I just took a look. It's unappealing since I don't consider Andromeda ME. After that game, ME has officially died for me. That was the nail in the coffin. I've moved with FemShep to a alternate universe via fanfic. Any future title in the Andro universe is not going to hold any shred of interest so the ME DAK is hardly going to be useful, for me. But I can see its usefulness for others. Tis a good concept. I mean, MEA may as well be a mild paralell universa considering the vastly different timeline. Andromeda was Andromeda so that it would never touch the timeline/universe of the OT. Does it really interfere that much with the OT for you? Also the Andromeda Initiative was NEVER mentioned in MET and was retconned because BioWare couldn't figure out way through the endings to ME3.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 18, 2017 17:42:08 GMT
The DA lore was made to be broken, wasn't it?
I don't think Bio had any option but to throw lots of HP on Trespasser opponents. At high levels and with all mats and schematics, a properly-built party can throw a ton of damage. Even on Nightmare non-promoted enemies die fast.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 18, 2017 17:48:32 GMT
I suspect that depends on the form to which you wanted BioWare to return. I'm a huge fan of BioWare's early RPGs, and also DAO, but think DA2 and the ME games were awful. DAI was more like Baldur's Gate than anything they've done since, and I call that a massive win. DAO was marketed as the "spiritual sequel to BG" but really it more closely resembled BG2, which I consider inferior. Overall, I still think DAO is a better game than DAI, but DAI did a lot of things right. I haven't played either BG games, but I wasn't a fan of the open world MMO zones or DAI Corypheus (he's good as fuck in Legacy, though). Was BG1 open world or was it more high fantasy? I actually liked DA:I Corypheus more because he was just an evil bastard which some villains work better than tormented borderline anti-heroes like Solas or characters like Dr. Doom, Magneto, or Lex Luthor are often portrayed as tragic fallen misunderstood anti-heroes which is fine but not every villain needs to be that. There some villains who are just evil for the sake of being evil that I just want to beat them just for that and/or giving me or the character I'm playing a hard time and now I want to beat them just for that. In the end I'm not having a fucking debate with the villain, I want to beat a mudhole in their ass and walk it dry. The 3D complex villains are fun but so are simple 1D villains.
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