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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 8:11:13 GMT
I very much prefer they find themselves again with a new character before they ever attempt any sort of return to Shepard (a remaster is the exception) They are very much trying to do that now with DA4. We'll see if they can moderately succeed in that front, by then. If they can't, when they've actively acknowledged their problems and are working to fix them, then they never will. At which point, you might as well not even get an Andromeda 2, as it will be even worse than Andromeda. It'll be best to just shut the studio down and put it out of its misery. But if they fix themselves, if they can make their writing to be at least decent, Shepard will sell your game. He will prop it up to what EA will want. And then you go on making Andromeda 2 and Andromeda 3. The problem is that bringing back our individual Shepards is unworkable; it was barely workable in ME3. It's perfectly workable. You personally may not like it, but it is doable.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 15, 2019 8:12:19 GMT
I very much agree on this. The best pitch you'll ever get is basically Shepard. The protagonist that put the brand on the map in the first place. That sold BW zillions of copies, sparked awesome memes (We'll bang ok? If you don't know that reference, seriously check it out) and just gave us one of the best trilogies in rpg gaming ever. Shepard is what Master Chief is to the Halo series, Zelda or Mario, the personification of a successful series. As Miranda said in ME2 'a bloody icon'. I feel that if BW would be bold enough to try it on, a return of Shepard, and have decent writing, it would be a huge success really. Just think about all the time we invested into our crew, the relationships we build, the memories we made. To follow up on that, it would be like a sort of homecoming. Exactly. if shepard comes back it would make more people buy the game for that alone. Andromeda doesn't have that hook and won't get the initial sales that it may deserve. For the record I actually liked andromeda. It had more then a few faults but it was still a good game. Kind of like DA2. That said it wasn't like ME2 or ME3 before the ending. Just bringing back garrus,liara,whoever survived virmire,tali,miranda,and jack and showing them in a trailer would bring people back in the millions (literally) since if I remember right ME3 sold over a million copies. Yes it may be a bit cliche to bring back the hero to bring up sales but it works. Funny, then bringing Shepard back would make me not buy the game for that alone. If they aren’t going to respect the choices I made in the previous games, why would I bother playing their future ones? And you’re right MEA isn’t like ME2. It’s better.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 15, 2019 8:14:22 GMT
The problem is that bringing back our individual Shepards is unworkable; it was barely workable in ME3. It's perfectly workable. You personally may not like it, but it is doable. A lot of players had their Shepard’s sacrifice themselves to save the galaxy at the cost of their life. Go ahead, tell me how they could make that work with Shepard coming back?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 8:18:11 GMT
A lot of players had their Shepard’s sacrifice themselves to destroy the collector base at the cost of their life. Go ahead, tell me how they could make that work with Shepard coming back? Fixed that for you. Oh, they ignored that case, didn't they? Well, I guess there's your answer.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 15, 2019 8:20:48 GMT
A lot of players had their Shepard’s sacrifice themselves to destroy the collector base at the cost of their life. Go ahead, tell me how they could make that work with Shepard coming back? Fixed that for you. Oh, they ignored that case, didn't they? Well, I guess there's your answer. Thank you for admitting there isn’t a way to make it work while respecting player choice and that you were wrong.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 8:21:42 GMT
Thank you for admitting there isn’t a way to make it work while respecting player choice and that you were wrong. So you admit that ME3 did not respect player choice?
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Post by burningcherry on Aug 15, 2019 8:38:09 GMT
ME3 did respect the choice, you simply can't import any save if Shepard died.
Unlike ME2, where we never get to see that human-led Council.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 15, 2019 8:42:14 GMT
And you’re right MEA isn’t like ME2. It’s better. Much, MUCH better. ME2 was the point it all went to wrong for me.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 10:15:29 GMT
ME3 did respect the choice, you simply can't import any save if Shepard died. So what's stopping them from making the same choice for the next Mass Effect? Literally nothing. Much, MUCH better. ME2 was the point it all went to wrong for me. Mass Effect 2Mass Effect AndromedaIt is safe to say that you do not represent the majority when you say things like these. Something about vocal minorities being wrong and all that?
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Post by dazk on Aug 15, 2019 11:58:56 GMT
ME3 did respect the choice, you simply can't import any save if Shepard died. So what's stopping them from making the same choice for the next Mass Effect? Literally nothing. Much, MUCH better. ME2 was the point it all went to wrong for me. Mass Effect 2Mass Effect AndromedaIt is safe to say that you do not represent the majority when you say things like these. Something about vocal minorities being wrong and all that? Well I am another of the vocal minority, I far preferred MEA to ME2.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 12:25:32 GMT
Well I am another of the vocal minority, I far preferred MEA to ME2. 2 down, 4.999.998 to go.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Aug 15, 2019 14:49:52 GMT
ME3 did respect the choice, you simply can't import any save if Shepard died. So what's stopping them from making the same choice for the next Mass Effect? Literally nothing. Much, MUCH better. ME2 was the point it all went to wrong for me. Mass Effect 2Mass Effect AndromedaIt is safe to say that you do not represent the majority when you say things like these. Something about vocal minorities being wrong and all that? While my personal preference is not to continue with Shepard. They easily could do this and successfully. Only allow high ems destroy imports. Most players who care to import have them. And yeah the number of people who really liked andromeda is small in itself the number who preferred it to mass effect 2 is a insignificant market.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 15, 2019 15:03:35 GMT
Although that still leaves all the problems ME3 had with accommodating ME1 and ME2 choices, plus accommodating the results of the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs. These are not insurmountable as long as the quarians and krogan aren't part of the plot.
At least we don't have to worry about any more possibly-dead squadmates, since high EMS rules out beam run deaths and EDI will always be dead.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 15, 2019 15:06:48 GMT
Even with high ems, the memorial wall can be filled with names leaving the only squadmates to be alive Vega and T'soni. I know, I've done a playthrough like that.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 15, 2019 15:30:37 GMT
Well, I guess that means Vega and T'Soni have to come back.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 15, 2019 15:40:20 GMT
T'soni I see in a sequel, but with Vega, it's possible he could be reassigned to another unit. He may even want to leave to find his uncle he mentioned in ME3. And once the N7 program starts back up, he may want to pursue that, if accepted.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 15, 2019 15:45:01 GMT
Yeah, you could sub in a new squadmate for Vega pretty easily. OTOH, I get the impression that the Bio staff likes the VA.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 15:48:55 GMT
T'soni I see in a sequel, but with Vega, it's possible he could be reassigned to another unit. He may even want to leave to find his uncle he mentioned in ME3. And once the N7 program starts back up, he may want to pursue that, if accepted. Even so, especially for the LIs, there is no reason to just write the rest of the crew off. Especially with the potential of what Bioware will most likely introduce as the substitute crew. Everyone I talked to has said that what they want for the next ME is a fun space adventure, without the absolute worst levels of Joss Whedon writing marring the game. So that automatically excludes every new squadmate idea.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 15, 2019 16:05:21 GMT
Since when is Joss Whedon unpopular, anyway? I never got that memo.
Regardless, nobody's talking about excluding OT squadmates, except maybe Vega. We're talking about what to do when they're dead. Which seems to mean doing what ME3 did.
Are two guaranteed squadmates enough, or do we need a third?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 16:12:55 GMT
Since when is Joss Whedon unpopular, anyway? I never got that memo. Full disclosure, I love Whedon. I was there for Firefly/Serenity, I'd been reading Whedon comics before that, I loved the Avengers movie, I even enjoy Agents of Shield, which, admittedly, I don't know how involved he actually is. Age of Ultron was Whedon at some of his worst. Bioware, for some reason, is obsessed with recreating the absolute worst aspects of Whedon writing and after cranking it up to 11, twisting the knob to 25. But that's just me and how I see it. Possibly because I am a Whedon fanboy and tend to see too many parallels, but Whedon is not infallible. When he is bad, he is insufferable.
Regardless, nobody's talking about excluding OT squadmates, except maybe Vega. We're talking about what to do when they're dead. Which seems to mean doing what ME3 did. And what ME3 did was another huge point of contention, which was why we had the Citadel DLC. So the obvious solution to that is "let's not do that again" in the first place.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 15, 2019 16:16:30 GMT
Exactly what are you proposing, then? A ten-hour game?
There are also serious ROI issues here. Based on past performance, something like 2/3 of ME5 players will not have played the trilogy. ( Unless it bombs and only sells to the fanboys.)
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 16:29:27 GMT
Exactly what are you proposing, then? A ten-hour game? Hardly. With a 5 year development time, like the one Bioware enjoyed with Andromeda, you could develop ME3 three times and a half. Instead of going longer, go wider. Explore the breadth of the game you are making. It would be ideal for the "live service" model EA wants.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 15, 2019 16:59:07 GMT
It's a serious mistake to equate time and zots linearly. ME:A wasn't at full staffing for anything like the entire five years.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 15, 2019 17:00:38 GMT
Even better, for what I am proposing. Especially since Bioware dicked around for the most part of those five years.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 15, 2019 17:12:12 GMT
How is it better, exactly? You aren't going to get 3x the ME3 budget for your plan. I'm not even sure your plan would get the 2x ME3's budget which ME:A actually got, since that budget was premised on doing that big OW thing.
You're basically asking for a boatload of money to be devoted to satisfying a minority of the player base. Even less than 1/3, since out of the 1/3 of ME5 players who will know who the hell these people are, not all of them are going to want that much content devoted to them. I just don't see this proposal passing a review.
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