inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,700
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
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Post by arvaarad on Mar 26, 2018 12:13:42 GMT
I always got the impression that whenever people interacted with my Lavellan, they were humoring them when it came to their religious beliefs, especially when interacting with Mother Giselle. Don't get me wrong, she's a nice person who genuinely believes in the Maker and Andraste and doesn't hesitate to criticize the Chantry, yet when I talked with her on the issue of faith, I always got the impression that she was dismissive of the Elven Gods, writing them off as 'aspects of the Maker' rather than their own unique entities with personalities and mythos. She came across as if my interpretation of faith was incorrect and that only by worshiping her religion would I better understand faith and it's importance, which came off as incredibly patronizing and belittling. Imagine how Chantry people would react if I wrote of the Maker as just 'an aspect of the Creators'. Is that so hypocritical? Andrastians are Andrastian because they believe their religion describes the reality of the world. Of course they’re going to treat other religions as lesser than theirs, and be annoyed if other religions do the same back to them. To them, those other religions are false while theirs is true. If they come up with a way to explain the Dalish religion within the framework of Andrastianism, that’s harmonizing it with the truth, while a Dalish person trying to explain away Andrastianism would be making up a lie. Furthermore, belief in the “fake” religions is delaying the return of the Maker. IMO, it would be way weirder if they treated all religions the same. What does it even mean to “believe” a religion if you don’t think it’s closer to the truth than other religions?
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,712
gervaise21
10,826
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 26, 2018 15:09:03 GMT
I actually find it stranger that Cassandra and Giselle are so accommodating of your religion as a Dalish and try to reconcile it with their own religion, particularly Cassandra's "can't you find room for one more?" when you quite honestly say you worship your own gods rather than the Maker. I had previously been led to believe that the Chantry condemned all other gods as false and it was worshipping their own pantheon that made the elves further from the Maker's grace. This made sense considering the empire building of Orlais was originally justified by the need to spread the Chant of Light so it is sung in all corners of the world, which was a pre-requisite to the Maker's eventual return.
Then finding Ameridan honouring both Andraste and Ghilan'nain as mortals raised to godhood blew my mind. I could just about accept that it was possibly for a Dalish elf to have had such a faith back then but not someone who was so closely connected with Drakon and the Chantry. Then he actually admits to knowing that Drakon wants to "simplify things" with regard to religion, which is a euphemistic way of saying that Drakon eradicated everything that did not conform to his own religious views, even co-worshipers of the Maker. I also found it hard to believe that everyone was so accepting of the Avvar girl, from a human group worshiping a multitude of gods (that are in fact admitted to be spirits - isn't that what the Maker condemned?) and a self-confessed possessed individual, going on a lecture tour of the salons of Orlais.
So back in DAO I had a pretty clear idea of where people stood on religion in Thedas, what the main faiths were and how they viewed each other. Since then it has become very confusing and it is hard to know what anyone actually believes any more. It does leave it rather open to believe whatever you like.
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inherit
1407
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Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
4,343
shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Mar 26, 2018 17:20:45 GMT
I actually find it stranger that Cassandra and Giselle are so accommodating of your religion as a Dalish and try to reconcile it with their own religion, particularly Cassandra's "can't you find room for one more?" when you quite honestly say you worship your own gods rather than the Maker. I had previously been led to believe that the Chantry condemned all other gods as false and it was worshipping their own pantheon that made the elves further from the Maker's grace. This made sense considering the empire building of Orlais was originally justified by the need to spread the Chant of Light so it is sung in all corners of the world, which was a pre-requisite to the Maker's eventual return. So back in DAO I had a pretty clear idea of where people stood on religion in Thedas, what the main faiths were and how they viewed each other. Since then it has become very confusing and it is hard to know what anyone actually believes any more. It does leave it rather open to believe whatever you like. It's not as strange as you might believe. In history, I've read more than once about how religious conciliation and parallels have been used by some to lessen the gap between two religions as a step in converting the populace of the native religion to the foreign one. This was not exclusively used in conquests either. This was also a method sometimes used to convert people "diplomatically" without the use of force. Well, force on the foreign priests' part: a ruler could decide to impose the new religion by making conversion to it mandatory hence the quotation marks. For example: the various gods in the Dalish pantheon are representative of one aspect or another pertaining to the world and Dalish life. There are some similarities between Elgar'nan and the Maker: the sun motif, the all-father motif and so on. The Chantry converters could present them as being similar or as the same to ease the transition or encourage it. Alternatively, the Maker might be presented as another member of the Pantheon. There's also always the thing to remember that people are individuals and that it influences how they view their religion. Create a group made up of Christians or Muslims that you've selected at random and you'll find that they won't share the same opinion on everything nor will their views completely align with the rules set by their faith. While Andrastianism states that the Maker will not return until the Chant is sung from all corners of the world, we have people like Mother Elthina who believes that he still acts in mankind's favor such as through the Warden during the Fifth Blight. I don't see this as a contradiction because as I've mentioned previously, people are seldom completely absolute about its faith's beliefs. I'm still not myself so I apologize if I ramble or this seems a mess. Note: I recently read about this but I'm condensing this from memory so it may not be accurate. This is why I'm not naming real life examples despite having some in mind.
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Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
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opuspace
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Post by opuspace on Mar 26, 2018 17:42:32 GMT
It's not as strange as you might believe. In history, I've read more than once about how religious conciliation and parallels have been used by some to lessen the gap between two religions as a step in converting the populace of the native religion to the foreign one. This was not exclusively used in conquests either. This was also a method sometimes used to convert people "diplomatically" without the use of force. Well, force on the foreign priests' part: a ruler could decide to impose the new religion by making conversion to it mandatory hence the quotation marks. For example: the various gods in the Dalish pantheon are representative of one aspect or another pertaining to the world and Dalish life. There are some similarities between Elgar'nan and the Maker: the sun motif, the all-father motif and so on. The Chantry converters could present them as being similar or as the same to ease the transition or encourage it. Alternatively, the Maker might be presented as another member of the Pantheon. There's also always the thing to remember that people are individuals and that it influences how they view their religion. Create a group made up of Christians or Muslims that you've selected at random and you'll find that they won't share the same opinion on everything nor will their views completely align with the rules set by their faith. While Andrastianism states that the Maker will not return until the Chant is sung from all corners of the world, we have people like Mother Elthina who believes that he still acts in mankind's favor such as through the Warden during the Fifth Blight. I don't see this as a contradiction because as I've mentioned previously, people are seldom completely absolute about its faith's beliefs. I'm still not myself so I apologize if I ramble or this seems a mess. Note: I recently read about this but I'm condensing this from memory so it may not be accurate. This is why I'm not naming real life examples despite having some in mind. A cynical part of me would say that the only reason why a Lavellan would be tolerated for their believing in different gods would be because of their status as "Herald of Andraste". Cassandra has always been introspective of her own actions, except when it comes to respecting another faith. And this is the biggest nitpick. I'm hearing smug commentary about laughing at the Dalish for the vallaslin but the entire game of Inquisition is playing a massive lie that Andrastian worshippers want to believe. "Herald of Andraste" is a huge deception. The Inquisitor wasn't pulled out of the Fade by Andraste. It was the Divine, or a spirit masquerading as her. We can try to tell the truth but we get told repeatedly to keep it hushed or that they're not pleased to hear it. The overall message I'm getting is that Andrastian followers are likely going to gloss over the truth for a more palatable one. So is it right to laugh at the Dalish when the Inquisitor is a walking lie that Andrastians want to be real?
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Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
4,343
shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Mar 26, 2018 20:23:26 GMT
1. A cynical part of me would say that the only reason why a Lavellan would be tolerated for their believing in different gods would be because of their status as "Herald of Andraste". 2. Cassandra has always been introspective of her own actions, except when it comes to respecting another faith. And this is the biggest nitpick. 3. I'm hearing smug commentary about laughing at the Dalish for the vallaslin but the entire game of Inquisition is playing a massive lie that Andrastian worshippers want to believe. "Herald of Andraste" is a huge deception. The Inquisitor wasn't pulled out of the Fade by Andraste. It was the Divine, or a spirit masquerading as her. We can try to tell the truth but we get told repeatedly to keep it hushed or that they're not pleased to hear it. The overall message I'm getting is that Andrastian followers are likely going to gloss over the truth for a more palatable one. So is it right to laugh at the Dalish when the Inquisitor is a walking lie that Andrastians want to be real? 1. That and it's unlikely that the common folk knows that Lavellan worship the Dalish gods or if they do, then they likely consolidate in some way with Andrastianism. It differs from game to game but how much the average human knows about the Dalish is supposed to be very limited in general. The elves in the Denerim Alienage didn't even believe that the Dalish existed: they just thought forest elves were bandits. Humans may hear about Lavellan's faith and assume she belongs to a different version of the Andrastian faith. 2. I always chalk that up to being innocently insensitive on Cassandra's part although I admit I think I remember one comment that made me think it wasn't always so but I can't place it at the moment. I do see it as Cassandra being a product of her culture and society: the Noble Bigot trope if you're familiar with TvTropes. I mentioned earlier how reconciliation between religions were a common thing. I would not be surprised to learn nor think it implausible that Cassandra is consciously or subconsciously familiar with that. In Nevarra, the Mortalitasi's school of thought is prominent but regarded as barbaric by other nations in Thedas. Cassandra was raised there and would later become a member of the Chantry and study under one of its branches. I would not be surprised to learn that she had to reconcile some things even if she never seriously subscribed to the Mortalitasi line of thinking. Don't get me wrong, it's understandable why it'd be seen as a dick to ask Lavellan especially considering how the Dalish have been persecuted in part because of their religious beliefs. Like I said, it doesn't seem intentionally so, like, it doesn't seem like she's trying to manipulate Lavellan in the hopes of converting them. 3. One of the things that I like about Inquisition is how it handles the theme of faith: it tries to examine it in a lot of ways - I have a more elaborate post about it saved somewhere that goes more into detail with examples - It doesn't do it perfectly but I give it a lot of props for doing it better than a lot of other games. What you mention play into that examination. I don't necessarily think this would be unique to Andrastians: merely to this size of a religion and in such a situation. It's like trying to correct a misinformation that is widely believed. Look at all of the work scholars have done on the Aztec and yet most of what people know about them or the image they have created of them in their head is largely incorrect. If you drip a drop of dye into the ocean, how many will notice it? Usually, for mass misinformation to be corrected is through something that is not just widely available but will be widely received like, for example, a hit movie. Those are one of the ways that we are left with lasting impressions, true or false, of something. The Inquisitor could write a document detailing what truly happened and yet, even if it become widely available it might not change any minds. Sure, scholars would remember it but the public? *Bonus: the AztecFor once, me taking the opportunity to talk about them has some relevancy so here are some tidbits about the Aztec: They had divorces including their version of prenuptial contracts, they had an excellent knowledge about the human anatomy that the Spanish considered superior to their own, they valued cleanliness, school was considered mandatory for all children including commoners. Human sacrifices were also seen as an honor and was a way for people to earn entrance into the best heavens. The reason the Aztec committed human sacrifices was because they believed it to be the only way to provide their gods with the energy necessary keep the world running. For example, the sun god needed human sacrifices to move across the heavens. The "Aztec Empire" was actually called the Triple Alliance and was an alliance between three city states: Tenochtitlan, Texcoco and Tlacopan who ruled the Valley of Mexic. They were also not one people but three different ones: the Mexica, the Acholhua and the Tepaneca. Note: *Going by memory and not by notes.
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Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
3,474
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2,129
August 2016
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Post by opuspace on Mar 27, 2018 1:13:50 GMT
1. That and it's unlikely that the common folk knows that Lavellan worship the Dalish gods or if they do, then they likely consolidate in some way with Andrastianism. It differs from game to game but how much the average human knows about the Dalish is supposed to be very limited in general. The elves in the Denerim Alienage didn't even believe that the Dalish existed: they just thought forest elves were bandits. Humans may hear about Lavellan's faith and assume she belongs to a different version of the Andrastian faith. 2. I always chalk that up to being innocently insensitive on Cassandra's part although I admit I think I remember one comment that made me think it wasn't always so but I can't place it at the moment. I do see it as Cassandra being a product of her culture and society: the Noble Bigot trope if you're familiar with TvTropes. I mentioned earlier how reconciliation between religions were a common thing. I would not be surprised to learn nor think it implausible that Cassandra is consciously or subconsciously familiar with that. In Nevarra, the Mortalitasi's school of thought is prominent but regarded as barbaric by other nations in Thedas. Cassandra was raised there and would later become a member of the Chantry and study under one of its branches. I would not be surprised to learn that she had to reconcile some things even if she never seriously subscribed to the Mortalitasi line of thinking. Don't get me wrong, it's understandable why it'd be seen as a dick to ask Lavellan especially considering how the Dalish have been persecuted in part because of their religious beliefs. Like I said, it doesn't seem intentionally so, like, it doesn't seem like she's trying to manipulate Lavellan in the hopes of converting them. 3. One of the things that I like about Inquisition is how it handles the theme of faith: it tries to examine it in a lot of ways - I have a more elaborate post about it saved somewhere that goes more into detail with examples - It doesn't do it perfectly but I give it a lot of props for doing it better than a lot of other games. What you mention play into that examination. I don't necessarily think this would be unique to Andrastians: merely to this size of a religion and in such a situation. It's like trying to correct a misinformation that is widely believed. Look at all of the work scholars have done on the Aztec and yet most of what people know about them or the image they have created of them in their head is largely incorrect. If you drip a drop of dye into the ocean, how many will notice it? Usually, for mass misinformation to be corrected is through something that is not just widely available but will be widely received like, for example, a hit movie. Those are one of the ways that we are left with lasting impressions, true or false, of something. The Inquisitor could write a document detailing what truly happened and yet, even if it become widely available it might not change any minds. Sure, scholars would remember it but the public? *Bonus: the AztecFor once, me taking the opportunity to talk about them has some relevancy so here are some tidbits about the Aztec: They had divorces including their version of prenuptial contracts, they had an excellent knowledge about the human anatomy that the Spanish considered superior to their own, they valued cleanliness, school was considered mandatory for all children including commoners. Human sacrifices were also seen as an honor and was a way for people to earn entrance into the best heavens. The reason the Aztec committed human sacrifices was because they believed it to be the only way to provide their gods with the energy necessary keep the world running. For example, the sun god needed human sacrifices to move across the heavens. The "Aztec Empire" was actually called the Triple Alliance and was an alliance between three city states: Tenochtitlan, Texcoco and Tlacopan who ruled the Valley of Mexic. They were also not one people but three different ones: the Mexica, the Acholhua and the Tepaneca. Note: *Going by memory and not by notes. These are good points, but it's troubling if the players are walking away with a lopsided opinion of one group and not applying it to another. Bioware has been notorious for doing that a few times like with the Quarians. I won't deny that both the Dalish and city elves have members who are racist. But this is when the game starts to lose nuance. Cassandra isn't called out on her bigotry but we have Sera and Solas making assumptions about Lavellan before they've even said two sentences. It becomes less an interesting exploration into culture and more a preachy sit through of who we're supposed to dislike. Why is it ok for Cassandra to be a product of her time but not for a Dalish character? What makes it so horrible to play a Lavellan when they're the most open minded group of Dalish? Why is it alright to laugh at one group for not knowing the truth of an aspect of their culture while the advisors are playing on a massive lie for the Inquisition's benefit? These are questions players aren't asking and it's frustrating because there's not much to discuss when people have their minds made up. There are indeed a lot of false beliefs held by a wide group of people. Religion tends to be one of the biggest ones. What used to be accepted though in the past, isn't quite the same as today. Why is that? Because of challenges to the established opinions. Discussions like this may be necessary to challenge whether something is false. As we've already seen in the comments, discriminatory double standards are not only an acceptable opinion to voice, it's a stubborn one as well. We get people automatically hating to play a Dalish because they believe they're an automatic racist, something that's ironic in its own way. An Inquisitor might have the ears of the people, but it never stopped destructive rumors from springing up to having Lavellan's own clan being targeted by nobles. Obsession with the past is a hard accusation to make it stick against a group when humans themselves are unhappy with the Divine elected simply because they all make changes to the status quo. Anyways, thanks for listening.
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Apr 13, 2024 10:00:53 GMT
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cloud9
3,871
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 27, 2018 9:24:14 GMT
I understood them completely that they want to discover their past to learn from history that has been lost since their enslavement from humans.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,712
gervaise21
10,826
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 27, 2018 19:07:05 GMT
Why is it alright to laugh at one group for not knowing the truth of an aspect of their culture while the advisors are playing on a massive lie for the Inquisition's benefit? These are questions players aren't asking and it's frustrating because there's not much to discuss when people have their minds made up. Well I for one am a player who was asking these questions but unfortunately the writers clearly had an agenda where the Dalish were concerned, so their culture was fair game for criticism from other people but we were not permitted to defend ourselves by pointing out how hypocritical they were being. In the course of the 3 games we have discovered there is one history of Andraste that is peddled in the Chant of Light, another given by knowledgeable Chantry scholars who are prepared to admit at least a bit of the truth and yet another that is given by secular historians. How is that so different from the Dalish having one impression of their gods and Solas promoting a different one? At least the Dalish have the excuse that their knowledge of their culture was supressed and virtually eradicated during hundreds of years of slavery, whereas the Chantry believers have never had to endure such a challenge to their belief, except in places occupied in the past by the Qun but on the whole this was in places where the Chantry religion wasn't strong anyway, like Rivain. I do find it interesting that Rivain is one of the few places in Thedas where the locals do not seem to have any problem with the Dalish and the latter have a semi-permanent settlement, presumably not having a problem with their human neighbours either. This is why I feel that back at the formation of the Dales the elves probably had no problem co-existing with their human neighbours whose attitude to the Maker was that he was one god among many. The biggest problem the Dalish have is not their culture generally but their idea that they are preserving it against a time when they will finally have a homeland again without any concrete plan how that homeland might be achieved. Back when they were gifted the Dales, Thedas was probably pretty sparsely populated anyway, having recently endured 200 years of the 1st Blight that must have decimated populations across the world. The biggest populations would likely to be concentrated further north and when the barbarians conquered the south, the more attractive areas to occupy would have been the Heartlands of Orlais and the lands either side of the Minanter River, which was better for farming. I seem to recall someone saying in game that the Dales would have been predominantly forest at that time. So the elves were likely taking on something that had few indigenous human tribes anyway. Such would not be the case now and any land they conquered/were given would likely be occupied already. This is presumably why the problems arose with the Dalish boon in DAO, even though the area they were gifted was in the south of Ferelden and likely the previous inhabitants had either been killed by the darkspawn or fled, because eventually the indigenous population would want to return and would resent the Dalish trying to exclude them. This is why the example given by Lavellan clan (if they survive) of working in co-operation with their human neighbours rather than separately from them is probably the best way forward provided that this is not conditional on them adopting the human culture and religion. It is a pity that this outcome is not guaranteed and so can easily be forgotten by the writers going forward. I still feel that the vilification of the Dalish in DAI (and the novel Masked Empire) is going to be a precursor to them becoming the fall guys in a later game, particularly given the words of the song: "Mercy for the Elves" and the line "....will the Dalish son survive the fight?"
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Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
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3,727
August 2016
iddy
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Post by Iddy on Mar 27, 2018 19:21:09 GMT
Why is it alright to laugh at one group for not knowing the truth of an aspect of their culture while the advisors are playing on a massive lie for the Inquisition's benefit? These are questions players aren't asking and it's frustrating because there's not much to discuss when people have their minds made up. Well I for one am a player who was asking these questions but unfortunately the writers clearly had an agenda where the Dalish were concerned, so their culture was fair game for criticism from other people but we were not permitted to defend ourselves by pointing out how hypocritical they were being. In the course of the 3 games we have discovered there is one history of Andraste that is peddled in the Chant of Light, another given by knowledgeable Chantry scholars who are prepared to admit at least a bit of the truth and yet another that is given by secular historians. How is that so different from the Dalish having one impression of their gods and Solas promoting a different one? At least the Dalish have the excuse that their knowledge of their culture was supressed and virtually eradicated during hundreds of years of slavery, whereas the Chantry believers have never had to endure such a challenge to their belief, except in places occupied in the past by the Qun but on the whole this was in places where the Chantry religion wasn't strong anyway, like Rivain. I do find it interesting that Rivain is one of the few places in Thedas where the locals do not seem to have any problem with the Dalish and the latter have a semi-permanent settlement, presumably not having a problem with their human neighbours either. This is why I feel that back at the formation of the Dales the elves probably had no problem co-existing with their human neighbours whose attitude to the Maker was that he was one god among many. The biggest problem the Dalish have is not their culture generally but their idea that they are preserving it against a time when they will finally have a homeland again without any concrete plan how that homeland might be achieved. Back when they were gifted the Dales, Thedas was probably pretty sparsely populated anyway, having recently endured 200 years of the 1st Blight that must have decimated populations across the world. The biggest populations would likely to be concentrated further north and when the barbarians conquered the south, the more attractive areas to occupy would have been the Heartlands of Orlais and the lands either side of the Minanter River, which was better for farming. I seem to recall someone saying in game that the Dales would have been predominantly forest at that time. So the elves were likely taking on something that had few indigenous human tribes anyway. Such would not be the case now and any land they conquered/were given would likely be occupied already. This is presumably why the problems arose with the Dalish boon in DAO, even though the area they were gifted was in the south of Ferelden and likely the previous inhabitants had either been killed by the darkspawn or fled, because eventually the indigenous population would want to return and would resent the Dalish trying to exclude them. This is why the example given by Lavellan clan (if they survive) of working in co-operation with their human neighbours rather than separately from them is probably the best way forward provided that this is not conditional on them adopting the human culture and religion. It is a pity that this outcome is not guaranteed and so can easily be forgotten by the writers going forward. I still feel that the vilification of the Dalish in DAI (and the novel Masked Empire) is going to be a precursor to them becoming the fall guys in a later game, particularly given the words of the song: "Mercy for the Elves" and the line "....will the Dalish son survive the fight?" This reminds me of Felassan's joke where he says "Oh, we have this great plan that involves riding wagons pulled by deer and waiting for humans to kill each other! Still working out the middle." It is specially funny because it is a direct reference to the Dalish elves codex where keeper Gisharel says pretty much that, but in a more flattering way.
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Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
3,474
opuspace
2,129
August 2016
opuspace
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Post by opuspace on Mar 27, 2018 21:03:05 GMT
Well I for one am a player who was asking these questions but unfortunately the writers clearly had an agenda where the Dalish were concerned, so their culture was fair game for criticism from other people but we were not permitted to defend ourselves by pointing out how hypocritical they were being. In the course of the 3 games we have discovered there is one history of Andraste that is peddled in the Chant of Light, another given by knowledgeable Chantry scholars who are prepared to admit at least a bit of the truth and yet another that is given by secular historians. How is that so different from the Dalish having one impression of their gods and Solas promoting a different one? At least the Dalish have the excuse that their knowledge of their culture was supressed and virtually eradicated during hundreds of years of slavery, whereas the Chantry believers have never had to endure such a challenge to their belief, except in places occupied in the past by the Qun but on the whole this was in places where the Chantry religion wasn't strong anyway, like Rivain. This is why the example given by Lavellan clan (if they survive) of working in co-operation with their human neighbours rather than separately from them is probably the best way forward provided that this is not conditional on them adopting the human culture and religion. It is a pity that this outcome is not guaranteed and so can easily be forgotten by the writers going forward. I still feel that the vilification of the Dalish in DAI (and the novel Masked Empire) is going to be a precursor to them becoming the fall guys in a later game, particularly given the words of the song: "Mercy for the Elves" and the line "....will the Dalish son survive the fight?" Sorry about that, Gervaise. You have indeed been pointing out what's been going on. It does remind me of when you mentioned the comparison of the Red Crossing findings and what happens between descendants what happened when one Dalish clan tried to apologize for what happened with Red Crossing even though 1. Neither the humans nor the elves today were alive at the time so they're not the same people. 2. The humans don't lose anything for acknowledging that the other side is admitting their ancestors effed up. We are given an interesting reveal as to how difficult it is for reconciliation and what happens when the Dalish do try to reach out to humans today. I've seen fans mock the offering of the halla, saying that maybe 2 halla would make up for the deaths.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 27, 2018 21:11:05 GMT
This reminds me of Felassan's joke where he says "Oh, we have this great plan that involves riding wagons pulled by deer and waiting for humans to kill each other! Still working out the middle." It is specially funny because it is a direct reference to the Dalish elves codex where keeper Gisharel says pretty much that, but in a more flattering way. The aravels give such a vivid reminder of the Quarians and how Han'Gerrel talks of how they're too comfortable with their situation. It's not a great situation, but they've adapted to the point they don't know another way to live. The developers already have fingers pointed to both Quarians and Dalish as the ones who struck first so what's the betting they'll allow genocidal decisions on men, women and children again?
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newnation
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: chrisdavis90
Posts: 61 Likes: 55
inherit
9774
0
55
newnation
61
Jan 31, 2018 21:20:31 GMT
January 2018
newnation
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
chrisdavis90
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Post by newnation on Mar 27, 2018 21:16:36 GMT
I've always wondered why all the dalish clans and city elves didn't just unite under one leader or group and show the world why they should be respected considering everyone praises the skills of their hunters and warriors. I guess you could kind of say Solas is doing that. One would think a united group of elves in Thedas with probably the backing of a few nations would make the Divine and the rest of the world say "maybe we screwed up and should really talk this out." Then again if they didn't really do anything with the mage/templar hostilities before the rebellions I guess it would be too much to ask for them to handle this scenario.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 27, 2018 21:28:55 GMT
I've always wondered why all the dalish clans and city elves didn't just unite under one leader or group and show the world why they should be respected considering everyone praises the skills of their hunters and warriors. I guess you could kind of say Solas is doing that. One would think a united group of elves in Thedas with probably the backing of a few nations would make the Divine and the rest of the world say "maybe we screwed up and should really talk this out." Then again if they didn't really do anything with the mage/templar hostilities before the rebellions I guess it would be too much to ask for them to handle this scenario. I can think of two reasons. First, there is the fact that they are isolated from each other. For City Elves, the Alienages are fixed positions far apart from each other so they can never really connect with each other. The most that ever happens is some members leave one Alienage for another, usually when they are getting married. For Dalish Elves, their clans are almost always on the move so the chances of running into each other is slim. The only time they ever gather is during the Arlathvhen which happens only once every ten years. Thus is any one clan or Alienage tried rising up, they would have no reinforcements and as we see almost always ends badly for that clan or Alienage. Second, not only are they divided among their own groups but there are also lseperated from each other for a variety of reasons. Ever since Origins, we see both groups have an ambivalent to negative opinion of each other so because of that and the reasons behind it for example religion leads to them not wanting to work with each other.
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newnation
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: chrisdavis90
Posts: 61 Likes: 55
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by newnation on Mar 27, 2018 21:55:46 GMT
I've always wondered why all the dalish clans and city elves didn't just unite under one leader or group and show the world why they should be respected considering everyone praises the skills of their hunters and warriors. I guess you could kind of say Solas is doing that. One would think a united group of elves in Thedas with probably the backing of a few nations would make the Divine and the rest of the world say "maybe we screwed up and should really talk this out." Then again if they didn't really do anything with the mage/templar hostilities before the rebellions I guess it would be too much to ask for them to handle this scenario. I can think of two reasons. First, there is the fact that they are isolated from each other. For City Elves, the Alienages are fixed positions far apart from each other so they can never really connect with each other. The most that ever happens is some members leave one Alienage for another, usually when they are getting married. For Dalish Elves, their clans are almost always on the move so the chances of running into each other is slim. The only time they ever gather is during the Arlathvhen which happens only once every ten years. Thus is any one clan or Alienage tried rising up, they would have no reinforcements and as we see almost always ends badly for that clan or Alienage. Second, not only are they divided among their own groups but there are also lseperated from each other for a variety of reasons. Ever since Origins, we see both groups have an ambivalent to negative opinion of each other so because of that and the reasons behind it for example religion leads to them not wanting to work with each other. But wasn't Solas gathering elves from the alienages and clans? One of the slides in Inquisition alluded to elves disappearing after the events of Trespasser. I think it would be awesome for a charismatic warrior or mage to start a rebellion like the gladiator rebellions....you know....without the death and crucifixion part.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 27, 2018 21:58:00 GMT
I can think of two reasons. First, there is the fact that they are isolated from each other. For City Elves, the Alienages are fixed positions far apart from each other so they can never really connect with each other. The most that ever happens is some members leave one Alienage for another, usually when they are getting married. For Dalish Elves, their clans are almost always on the move so the chances of running into each other is slim. The only time they ever gather is during the Arlathvhen which happens only once every ten years. Thus is any one clan or Alienage tried rising up, they would have no reinforcements and as we see almost always ends badly for that clan or Alienage. Second, not only are they divided among their own groups but there are also lseperated from each other for a variety of reasons. Ever since Origins, we see both groups have an ambivalent to negative opinion of each other so because of that and the reasons behind it for example religion leads to them not wanting to work with each other. But wasn't Solas gathering elves from the alienages and clans? One of the slides in Inquisition alluded to elves disappearing after the events of Trespasser. I think it would be awesome for a charismatic warrior or mage to start a rebellion like the gladiator rebellions....you know....without the death and crucifixion part. Yes, but that's not really them allying with each other but instead rallying behind the same person. Even then it's only a minority of elves joining him.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 27, 2018 22:30:11 GMT
Q: Are the Dalish obsessed with the past? A: Do the Dalish sh*t in the woods? Sorry, no-one had made that terribly obvious (or obviously terrible) joke yet. I couldn't resist!
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Post by Sifr on Mar 27, 2018 23:02:10 GMT
An Inquisitor might have the ears of the people, but it never stopped destructive rumors from springing up to having Lavellan's own clan being targeted by nobles. Another potential casualty in all this is Lavellan themselves. Being associated with the Chantry might permanently damage their standing within their own community or among other Dalish clans. While some of the Dalish we meet are excited at the prospect of what human acceptance of Lavellan might mean for the People going forward, some like Hawen are wary because Lavellan is still the leader and representative of an Andrastian organisation. How do the Dalish react upon learning that a female Lavellan who romanced Solas may have had their vallaslin removed? Would they understand, or more likely reject the truth that these were slave markings? Would some see this as Lavellan abandoning the Dalish beliefs to fit in better among humans, making her no better than a flat-ear? How do they react if/when Lavellan reveals the truth about the Evanuris, that the Creators were false Gods, no different than Tevinter Magisters and kept their own people as slaves? Or that rather than humans, their immortality was lost after the Veil was created and their own people destroyed themselves with infighting long before Tevinter conquered what was left? And what happens when other Dalish learn that Lavellan (regardless of gender) owes much of their success/power/fame to the machinations of the Dread Wolf? Would that association, even if it was completely unwitting, still make Lavellan immediately suspect in the eyes of many Dalish and someone they might wish to shun? Even if some do believe Lavellan's claims, their reputation among most of the Dalish might be left in complete tatters.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 27, 2018 23:14:45 GMT
I've always wondered why all the dalish clans and city elves didn't just unite under one leader or group and show the world why they should be respected considering everyone praises the skills of their hunters and warriors. I guess you could kind of say Solas is doing that. One would think a united group of elves in Thedas with probably the backing of a few nations would make the Divine and the rest of the world say "maybe we screwed up and should really talk this out." Then again if they didn't really do anything with the mage/templar hostilities before the rebellions I guess it would be too much to ask for them to handle this scenario. One of the biggest reasons why they don't is the difficulty of gathering in sufficient numbers without drawing the ire of humans or the suspicions of the Chantry. As skilled as the hunters are, they don't have the force or the staying power to withstand an army sent their way. They have no reliable sources of food and weaponry to sustain any prolonged skirmish. Clans keep on the move to avoid being targeted and it's been mentioned how if things get sour when they camp near a village, they're more likely to leave to avoid conflict. Their relationship with city elves is...complicated. It's a mixture of condescending pity, some contempt for submitting to humans and protectiveness for the city elves seeking shelter with them, all of it depending on which clan is holding the most dominant views and whether they can afford to take them in. The long story short of it is this: the elves don't have the strength to wage any resistance or uprising. Not without major magical, political or economical help from someone outside both groups.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 27, 2018 23:21:38 GMT
An Inquisitor might have the ears of the people, but it never stopped destructive rumors from springing up to having Lavellan's own clan being targeted by nobles. Another potential casualty in all this is Lavellan themselves. Being associated with the Chantry might permanently damage their standing within their own community or among other Dalish clans. While some of the Dalish we meet are excited at the prospect of what human acceptance of Lavellan might mean for the People going forward, some like Hawen are wary because Lavellan is still the leader and representative of an Andrastian organisation. How do the Dalish react upon learning that a female Lavellan who romanced Solas may have had their vallaslin removed? Would they understand, or more likely reject the truth that these were slave markings? Would some see this as Lavellan abandoning the Dalish beliefs to fit in better among humans, making her no better than a flat-ear? How do they react if/when Lavellan reveals the truth about the Evanuris, that the Creators were false Gods, no different than Tevinter Magisters and kept their own people as slaves? Or that rather than humans, their immortality was lost after the Veil was created and their own people destroyed themselves with infighting long before Tevinter conquered what was left? And what happens when other Dalish learn that Lavellan (regardless of gender) owes much of their success/power/fame to the machinations of the Dread Wolf? Would that association, even if it was completely unwitting, still make Lavellan immediately suspect in the eyes of many Dalish and someone they might wish to shun? Even if some do believe Lavellan's claims, their reputation among most of the Dalish might be left in complete tatters. That is true. Part of me wonders if a Lavellan Inquisitor can make enough of a difference for elves to offset the suspicions that they've sold out to the humans. With their own clan, Clan Lavellan's been established as being more open-minded and if they survive, they do so with full awareness that it's because of Inquisition forces deployed on their behalf. Them knowing the truth about the Dread Wolf would be where we'd see just where Lavellan stands with their clan.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 28, 2018 10:58:26 GMT
I've always wondered why all the dalish clans and city elves didn't just unite under one leader or group and show the world why they should be respected considering everyone praises the skills of their hunters and warriors. I guess you could kind of say Solas is doing that. One would think a united group of elves in Thedas with probably the backing of a few nations would make the Divine and the rest of the world say "maybe we screwed up and should really talk this out." Then again if they didn't really do anything with the mage/templar hostilities before the rebellions I guess it would be too much to ask for them to handle this scenario.
The main reason this would never work is numbers. As another poster has pointed out, both Dalish clans and alienages are spread across the world. In fact I would hazard a guess that is why the elves who didn't flee capture at the end of the Exalted March were transported away from the Dales. Essentially Orlais wanted to ensure that they were never in a position to challenge them again. You have to remember that the elves came within a hairs breadth of conquering Val Royeaux but their main leader was killed and then the element of surprise was removed (I'm sure initially that Orlais never thought the elves would be audacious enough to attack their capital) and once they had had a chance to re-group, the human forces were always going to have superior numbers of their side.
Since then human numbers have grown across Thedas at a far greater rate than the elves, so wherever they decided to make a stand, they would be at risk of being overwhelmed eventually, even if every elf in Thedas somehow miraculously managed to come together in one place. Given the anti-elf sentiments that are evident everywhere and the fear of every ruling class of losing their lands to them, it might well be a unifying enough event to encourage the human states to band together to put the elves down. This is why the expectations of Briala (and other city elves) stated in Masked Empire are simply unreasonable given the current situation with the Dalish. Why didn't they help the rebels in Halamshiral? Because it is doubtful if any of the clans were even aware of what was going on and even if they were, a handful of Dalish clans, amounting to only 50 persons each (according to the numbers stated for Clan Virnehn), and many of them too old or too young to fight, would not make a jot of difference to the outcome and only end up getting themselves wiped out. Even Celene was able to realise that the Dalish were never going to be a threat based on the numbers she could see.
This is why I state that if they want to improve their treatment and have a hope of retaining their culture, then the aim should be to cultivate sympathetic human communities with the intent of banding together against their mutual oppressors. What was noticeable about Wycome was that the nobles were driven out for supporting the corrupt ruler, leaving the Dalish working with a city Council made up largely of commoners, both human and elven. The nobles then went to the other Marcher leaders complaining that the elves had usurped their place at the head of the community and it was only timely intervention by the Inquisition (or not as the case may be) that prevents a massacre from occurring. So this is a good illustration of why it will not be an easy task improving the elves status in the world but they have a better chance that way than isolating themselves from the entire human population and being hostile to them, so all the humans band together against them.
Their best bet would be approaching individual Marcher states, who have historically been the victims of invasion by stronger nations and point out the benefits of having a loyal elven community willing to fight for them. If it wasn't for the epilogue of DAO, I would have thought Ferelden would have been a good ally to cultivate as well. Weakened by the Blight and threatened by Orlais, you would think they would welcome improved relations with elves capable of fighting for their freedom against anyone that threatened the state.
Sadly, history seems to show that this is not the line that humans within the country take. Night elves (city elf rebels sympathetic to Maric's cause) and Dalish assisted in returning the rightful king to the throne, yet it would seem that their contribution was immediately forgotten about. Dalish assist with the Blight regardless of who the Hero is but if the Dalish boon is given it seems it lasts barely a decade, seeing as King Alistair can apologise to Merrill about the failure of that little experiment, which would suggest it was more the result of human prejudice as much as elven isolationism. If it is not possible for elven autonomy in even an unattractive blighted region due to human intolerance, what chance would they have of holding a more attractive piece of ground? Even the City Elf boon giving them greater representation on the Denerim City council seems to end badly in the majority of cases.
It is not just Dalish culture that is denigrated. The City Elves have their own take on elven traditions, which seem largely ridiculed by companions even as far back as DAO. Then in Masked Empire Felassan belittles the Vhenadahl tree and of course in DAI Sera totally rejects anything conceivably "elfy" including the "stupid tree", although to be honest city elf culture is reduced to total insignificance and we have no contact with any city elves in the context of their normal living conditions. Solas merely looks on them with pitying condescension, although seems willing enough to use them for his own ends. City elf traditions also look back to better times and the Vhenadahl is definitely considered a unifying symbol in their community but you wouldn't know this from the people you meet in DAI.
Still the fact is, if the writers wanted it to be possible they could make it so. Look at what they did with the mages.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 28, 2018 13:15:01 GMT
Q: Are the Dalish obsessed with the past? A: Do the Dalish sh*t in the woods? Sorry, no-one had made that terribly obvious (or obviously terrible) joke yet. I couldn't resist! Not in the woods. The trees get jealous.
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theascendent
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
Posts: 482 Likes: 629
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theascendent
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Mar 30, 2018 8:38:12 GMT
What were the Dales like as a nation? What was its system of government, foreign affairs, economics and other matters of state? Your thoughts please? It lasted three hundred years without any major issues so they had to be doing something right.
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Wulfram
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: wulfram77
Posts: 489 Likes: 837
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 30, 2018 9:52:24 GMT
The Dalish obsession with the past is mostly healthy mythmaking. Because their idea of the past is largely made up, it essentially allows them to construct a vision of their idealised future and focus their society on making that.
It's all fine as long as the real past stays in the past.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 30, 2018 11:17:54 GMT
What were the Dales like as a nation? What was its system of government, foreign affairs, economics and other matters of state? Your thoughts please? It lasted three hundred years without any major issues so they had to be doing something right.
This is something I have wondered about myself. We know that the Keepers (of Lore), the Priesthood, were not the leaders in the Dales as this was stated in a codex. We have also been told that the banners that adorn the aravels are noble banners that reflect the family's house. I have often wondered about this. During that time of the Dales did a class system have time to establish itself? If so, what criteria led to you being regarded as noble?
Was it only the leadership in the communities who were regarded that way, or was it more like in Ferelden, where to be noble is because you are a protector of the community. There the Freeholders give patronage to the person who defends them from outside danger and if the "noble" fails in their duty of care, then the Freeholders may change their patronage to someone else. Either of these might reflect how the Evanuris of ancient Arlathan first came to power since Solas admits that the "gods" started off as ordinary leaders in a time of war. It is possible that the Emerald Knights were regarded as noble in the same way that Ferelden knights are because it would seem that many clan/family names were those of famous Emerald Knights.
Or did some members of the community actually claim descent from the noble houses of ancient Arlathan? I seem to recall that this is mentioned somewhere as being the case. This would certainly explain the positive image they had of the gods because the "nobility" of the ancient empire would have been the ones who benefited most from the status quo and would hold the biggest resentment against Fen'Harel for their loss of power. However, would such a claim really have survived through the centuries of slavery since the fall of the city in the Forst of Arlathan? Would the other elves really be that willing to accept someone as "noble" on the basis of their claim alone to some ancient title?
I would imagine that the economy was largely a subsistence one, with possibly some limited trade with surrounding human tribes, likely centred on Halamshiral, since the ancient Imperial Highway passes close to it and so would have merchant caravans passing along it. If the Dales was largely forested then, I assume any produce would be associated with activities connected to the forest. That would also account for why there are gods of hunting, crafting and hearthside but no god associated with farming, at least not of the arable type. So on the whole I would envisage the majority of the Dales would comprise of small woodland communities, living very similar lives to modern Dalish except sedentary rather than nomadic, at least in the winter months.
As I've stated above, I think initially foreign affairs didn't trouble them much. Humans crossing their land peacefully would likely be left alone but barbarian war bands would be confronted. Initially human culture was small tribes, united in very little but their reverence for Andraste and their determination to stay free of the Tevinter Imperium. It was part of barbarian culture to conduct raids on neighbours and equally accepted that those neighbours were entitled to fight back; in fact they would be respected for doing so. They often had their own ancient animosities and blood feuds between tribes that would keep them from being unified. So the elves probably did have an advantage in regarding themselves as a nation and having a solidarity against anyone who threatened them.
The problems started with Drakon and his desire to forge an empire to rival that of the Tevinter Imperium. As the grandson of a Tevinter Altus, his mind set would have been that of Tevinter, hence the ideas coming to the fore of having a divine right to rule and needing a unifying religion. Then he conquered or destroyed anyone who opposed him. The elves saw this and realised the threat such an empire would pose but did not have the diplomatic experience to know how to respond appropriately to this by cultivating alliances among the tribes still free of Drakon's influence. It is also possible that the human tribes were not adaptable enough from their normal way of conducting themselves to form political alliances of this sort even if elves had suggested such a measure.
The only suggestion we have of a foreign policy is when Ameridan says that the leadership in Halamshiral need to be reminded of "our alliance with Drakon". Was this just an assumed alliance because of the historical connection between the local human tribes and the elves or was it an actual alliance with Drakon? I am mindful of the fact that Divine Justinia felt the need to include mention of Shartan in the Chant and had to request a translation of the Dalish oral tradition, which would suggest that prior to that she had felt no need to include Shartan in her collection of the traditional verses about Andraste. So was this acknowledgement of his contribution required in order to get the elves on side with Drakon, despite their misgivings about him? Then some 20 years later they had begun to regret the alliance and wished to relinquish it; hence Ameridan saying they needed to be reminded of it? This would have been around then time of the Nevarran Accord that place the Chantry and Templars in control over the Circle of Magi and regulating magic, an obvious threat to a nation where mages were in positions of importance and not regarded with fear and suspicion by their populace.
So at that point it would seem that the elves decided to batten down the hatches, throw up the barricades and simply keep the rest of the world at bay. A mistake to be sure but it is easy to see how it happened.
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vit246
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 118 Likes: 169
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vit246
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by vit246 on Apr 2, 2018 3:50:48 GMT
What were the Dales like as a nation? What was its system of government, foreign affairs, economics and other matters of state? Your thoughts please? It lasted three hundred years without any major issues so they had to be doing something right. This is something I have wondered about myself. We know that the Keepers (of Lore), the Priesthood, were not the leaders in the Dales as this was stated in a codex. We have also been told that the banners that adorn the aravels are noble banners that reflect the family's house. I have often wondered about this. During that time of the Dales did a class system have time to establish itself? If so, what criteria led to you being regarded as noble?
Was it only the leadership in the communities who were regarded that way, or was it more like in Ferelden, where to be noble is because you are a protector of the community. There the Freeholders give patronage to the person who defends them from outside danger and if the "noble" fails in their duty of care, then the Freeholders may change their patronage to someone else. Either of these might reflect how the Evanuris of ancient Arlathan first came to power since Solas admits that the "gods" started off as ordinary leaders in a time of war. It is possible that the Emerald Knights were regarded as noble in the same way that Ferelden knights are because it would seem that many clan/family names were those of famous Emerald Knights.
Or did some members of the community actually claim descent from the noble houses of ancient Arlathan? I seem to recall that this is mentioned somewhere as being the case. This would certainly explain the positive image they had of the gods because the "nobility" of the ancient empire would have been the ones who benefited most from the status quo and would hold the biggest resentment against Fen'Harel for their loss of power. However, would such a claim really have survived through the centuries of slavery since the fall of the city in the Forst of Arlathan? Would the other elves really be that willing to accept someone as "noble" on the basis of their claim alone to some ancient title?
I would imagine that the economy was largely a subsistence one, with possibly some limited trade with surrounding human tribes, likely centred on Halamshiral, since the ancient Imperial Highway passes close to it and so would have merchant caravans passing along it. If the Dales was largely forested then, I assume any produce would be associated with activities connected to the forest. That would also account for why there are gods of hunting, crafting and hearthside but no god associated with farming, at least not of the arable type. So on the whole I would envisage the majority of the Dales would comprise of small woodland communities, living very similar lives to modern Dalish except sedentary rather than nomadic, at least in the winter months.
As I've stated above, I think initially foreign affairs didn't trouble them much. Humans crossing their land peacefully would likely be left alone but barbarian war bands would be confronted. Initially human culture was small tribes, united in very little but their reverence for Andraste and their determination to stay free of the Tevinter Imperium. It was part of barbarian culture to conduct raids on neighbours and equally accepted that those neighbours were entitled to fight back; in fact they would be respected for doing so. They often had their own ancient animosities and blood feuds between tribes that would keep them from being unified. So the elves probably did have an advantage in regarding themselves as a nation and having a solidarity against anyone who threatened them.
The problems started with Drakon and his desire to forge an empire to rival that of the Tevinter Imperium. As the grandson of a Tevinter Altus, his mind set would have been that of Tevinter, hence the ideas coming to the fore of having a divine right to rule and needing a unifying religion. Then he conquered or destroyed anyone who opposed him. The elves saw this and realised the threat such an empire would pose but did not have the diplomatic experience to know how to respond appropriately to this by cultivating alliances among the tribes still free of Drakon's influence. It is also possible that the human tribes were not adaptable enough from their normal way of conducting themselves to form political alliances of this sort even if elves had suggested such a measure.
The only suggestion we have of a foreign policy is when Ameridan says that the leadership in Halamshiral need to be reminded of "our alliance with Drakon". Was this just an assumed alliance because of the historical connection between the local human tribes and the elves or was it an actual alliance with Drakon? I am mindful of the fact that Divine Justinia felt the need to include mention of Shartan in the Chant and had to request a translation of the Dalish oral tradition, which would suggest that prior to that she had felt no need to include Shartan in her collection of the traditional verses about Andraste. So was this acknowledgement of his contribution required in order to get the elves on side with Drakon, despite their misgivings about him? Then some 20 years later they had begun to regret the alliance and wished to relinquish it; hence Ameridan saying they needed to be reminded of it? This would have been around then time of the Nevarran Accord that place the Chantry and Templars in control over the Circle of Magi and regulating magic, an obvious threat to a nation where mages were in positions of importance and not regarded with fear and suspicion by their populace.
So at that point it would seem that the elves decided to batten down the hatches, throw up the barricades and simply keep the rest of the world at bay. A mistake to be sure but it is easy to see how it happened.
During the Dales Founding, I imagine some elves claimed nobility through lineage, military service and deeds from Andraste's uprising, and classical bribery. Actual claims rarely survive, but that's not important. Being SEEN as noble tends to be more important. And certainly other elves would be willing to accept someone as noble. I'll put it this way. During the early Dales, every elf used to be a Tevinter slave, and they had just recently uplifted themselves from that lowly status. They used to be greater than this, probably during Arlathan in their minds. And deep down, a part of them wants to place some elves on pedestals they can look up to someone, someone who can protect them and give them a kingdom and a history to be proud of. Every Elf man, woman, and child probably wants to believe that those noble elves who reign and rule over them, whether they rule by right inherited or govern by consent of law, are better in some way than them. Shartan probably would've been acclaimed as a high lord or even king of all the elves if he had survived. I would envisage that certain aspects, like agriculture, would be added to the domains of appropriate existing gods, like Sylaise, for Dalish farmers who really want to pray to some god for good harvests. Huh, it would've been interesting if the Dales had managed to create some kind of human tribe buffer zone to guard against Drakon. "our alliance with Drakon". I don't think much thought was put into this DLC. Except as one more popular potshot against the Dalish in general. I don't see why it's hard to understand that the elves might've been very distrustful against Drakon and Orlais.
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