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30,301
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22,392
August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 19:28:40 GMT
She personally trains her guards. She couldn't kick the recklessness out of Carver in his own training while telling him not to put his teammates at risk? By the time she becomes guard captain, Carver is a Warden, Templar, or corpse so not really.
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 19:30:24 GMT
Still doesn't change that she already owed the Hawkes when they arrive at Kirkwall. She also had time to help Carver find a different job before he went traipsing to the deep roads or elsewhere
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 19:31:07 GMT
Still doesn't change that she already owed the Hawkes when they arrive at Kirkwall. She also had time to help Carver find a different job before he went traipsing to the deep roads or elsewhere Do you have any evidence she didn’t try to do that?
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 19:31:41 GMT
Do you have any evidence she didn’t try to do that? Do you have evidence she did?
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boxofscreaming
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 943 Likes: 1,658
inherit
8698
0
1,658
boxofscreaming
943
June 2017
boxofscreaming
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 19, 2018 19:35:52 GMT
To be fair, Aveline lets a lot of stuff slide for Hawke. I've bribed public officials, stabbed prostitutes and slaughtered Templars in front of her. Which makes it all the worse that she played favorites with one sibling but couldn't give Carver a fighting chance to prove himself. No wonder Carver hated his sibling. She personally trains her guards. She couldn't kick the recklessness out of Carver in his own training while telling him not to put his teammates at risk? I don't know - Carver was a criminal till five minutes ago and he hangs out with dodgy characters. Should he really be a guard? He's also kind of an arse to Aveline, so I'm not surprised she doesn't like him. More to the point, Hawke's friendship with Aveline was just starting out, really, in those days.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 19:38:42 GMT
Which makes it all the worse that she played favorites with one sibling but couldn't give Carver a fighting chance to prove himself. No wonder Carver hated his sibling. She personally trains her guards. She couldn't kick the recklessness out of Carver in his own training while telling him not to put his teammates at risk? I don't know - Carver was a criminal till five minutes ago and he hangs out with dodgy characters. Should he really be a guard? Aveline: I don't like some of the people you've been associating with, Carver. Carver: Talk to my brother/sister. He/She's the one in charge. (If on friendship path with Aveline) Aveline: Maybe, but I know you get around. (If on rivalry path with Aveline) Aveline: Who says I don't mean him/her too? Aveline: This city's full of people who are dead set on ending badly. I don't want to see you end up the same way. Carver: Would asking you to stop spying on me help in the least? Aveline: No.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 19:41:35 GMT
I have to say, I love the hypocrisy in this thread. I dare besmirch the name of Varric by claiming things like he isn't a true friend or betrays us, get yelled at. Meanwhile when it is Aveline that is getting those accusations then it is fine.
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 19:42:17 GMT
Then we shouldn't be saying she did it for Carver's sake or that she was looking out for them. She has her right to choose who to hire, but claiming she did it for their own good isn't matching up.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 19:43:13 GMT
Do you have evidence she did? You are the one making the accusation. Therefore it is on you to provide evidence to back up your claim. It is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 19:44:25 GMT
Do you have evidence she did? You are the one making the accusation. Therefore it is on you to provide evidence to back up your claim. I already gave the quote that had her ask Carver about a job and when he asked who would take him, she said nothing.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 19:45:22 GMT
You are the one making the accusation. Therefore it is on you to provide evidence to back up your claim. I already gave the quote that had her ask Carver about a job and when he asked who would take him, she said nothing. So? That isn't proof she didn't try to help.
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 19:46:06 GMT
I have to say, I love the hypocrisy in this thread. I dare besmirch the name of Varric by claiming things like he isn't a true friend or betrays us, get yelled at. Meanwhile when it is Aveline that is getting those accusations then it is fine. How is that hypocrisy?
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 19:47:01 GMT
I already gave the quote that had her ask Carver about a job and when he asked who would take him, she said nothing. So? That isn't proof she didn't try to help. It's proof she didn't have any job suggestions for him, that she had no better idea of where he should go look than he did.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 19:47:29 GMT
I have to say, I love the hypocrisy in this thread. I dare besmirch the name of Varric by claiming things like he isn't a true friend or betrays us, get yelled at. Meanwhile when it is Aveline that is getting those accusations then it is fine. How is that hypocrisy? Because the people who didn't like what I was doing are now doing the exact same thing.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 19:48:28 GMT
So? That isn't proof she didn't try to help. It's proof she didn't have any job suggestions for him, that she had no better idea of where he should go look than he did. No, it's proof she dropped the conversation at that moment because like always Carver was being a whiny dick. That conversation if anything proves she was right about him not being a fit to be a guard.
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 19:49:15 GMT
Because the people who didn't like what I was doing are now doing the exact same thing. And that's hypocritical how?
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 19:53:49 GMT
It's proof she didn't have any job suggestions for him, that she had no better idea of where he should go look than he did. No, it's proof she dropped the conversation at that moment because like always Carver was being a whiny dick. That conversation if anything proves she was right about him not being a fit to be a guard. Here's the thing: If she had mentioned a job for Carver that he could have taken but turned down, then she'd have a point. But she didn't. She's mentioned that the Guard was stretched thin. It's known she trains them personally, that she's been accused of coddling certain Guards while booting others. Carver could have been given a test run as proof she tried to look out for him
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 20:05:59 GMT
Because the people who didn't like what I was doing are now doing the exact same thing. And that's hypocritical how? Doing the opposite of what you say is pretty much the definition of hypocrisy. But whatever, that was meant as a one-off comment and I don't want it to be a discussion. No, it's proof she dropped the conversation at that moment because like always Carver was being a whiny dick. That conversation if anything proves she was right about him not being a fit to be a guard. Here's the thing: If she had mentioned a job for Carver that he could have taken but turned down, then she'd have a point. But she didn't. She's mentioned that the Guard was stretched thin. It's known she trains them personally, that she's been accused of coddling certain Guards while booting others. Carver could have been given a test run as proof she tried to look out for him Again, by the time Aveline can train guards Carver is not available for the job since he is either employed elsewhere or dead. You still have provided no evidence she didn't try to help them out.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 20:07:43 GMT
To change the subject a bit, what does everyone think the best NPC friendship is in the games?
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 20:11:10 GMT
And that's hypocritical how? Doing the opposite of what you say is pretty much the definition of hypocrisy. But whatever, that was meant as a one-off comment and I don't want it to be a discussion. Here's the thing: If she had mentioned a job for Carver that he could have taken but turned down, then she'd have a point. But she didn't. She's mentioned that the Guard was stretched thin. It's known she trains them personally, that she's been accused of coddling certain Guards while booting others. Carver could have been given a test run as proof she tried to look out for him Again, by the time Aveline can train guards Carver is not available for the job since he is either employed elsewhere or dead. As you've said, you made the accusation about hypocrisy, so the burden of proof is on you. I never disagreed about whether Varric was a true friend or not or whether Aveline is a true friend to Hawke, only whether she was one to Carver. I don't believe I've ever said that she didn't have the right to prevent Carver from entering the Guard for professional reasons, but to say she felt enough affection for them to act in their best interest...that could have used more effort on her part. She's not consistent in her assessment of candidates for the Guard either. To deny one person entry into a job because she thinks they're poor for the position is one thing. To offer the same job to another down the line while still thinking they make a poor Guard is hypocrisy. That's what my standard is about hypocrites.
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Wanted Apostate
127
0
May 20, 2024 16:06:52 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
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Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2018 20:11:11 GMT
Which makes it all the worse that she played favorites with one sibling but couldn't give Carver a fighting chance to prove himself. No wonder Carver hated his sibling. She personally trains her guards. She couldn't kick the recklessness out of Carver in his own training while telling him not to put his teammates at risk? I don't know - Carver was a criminal till five minutes ago and he hangs out with dodgy characters. Should he really be a guard? He's also kind of an arse to Aveline, so I'm not surprised she doesn't like him. More to the point, Hawke's friendship with Aveline was just starting out, really, in those days. Just like Aveline...
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Norstaera
N3
Stealth Swooper
This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 385 Likes: 745
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Stealth Swooper
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0
Apr 20, 2024 18:37:45 GMT
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Norstaera
This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
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Aug 24, 2016 16:13:41 GMT
August 2016
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Bottom
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/3ead/s5mkgfa593ihxkkzg.jpg
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Norstaera on Jul 19, 2018 20:14:42 GMT
She personally trains her guards. She couldn't kick the recklessness out of Carver in his own training while telling him not to put his teammates at risk? She trains her guards after she becomes guard-captain. She was just a refugee with a job in the guard until then. A year with smugglers or mercenaries didn't cool his temper or his recklessness. Carver hasn't shown any great inclination to listen to her about what he might do, about the people he hangs around with, some of his other shenanigans and he knows she's keeping an eye on him. He is also consistently rude to her. Why should she say he'd be a good candidate to be a guard? from the wiki: Carver: Did you approve my application? Aveline: I can't make you a guard, Carver. Carver: We were both soldiers. Why won't they take me? Aveline: I was an officer. And I follow orders. Carver: (Laughs) No you don't. Aveline: I also think of others before myself. You seem tired of that, and that's dangerous. Carver: Just when it's not my choice. You told them not to take me, didn't you? Aveline: Yes. To me, this doesn't prove whether she volunteered the information or they asked her opinion because she knew Carver. Why is he even asking if she, a fairly new guard and a refugee, approve his application? Unless he's really asking about what she said as a reference. I therefore contend that she didn't peruse the applications and go to her bosses and tell them not to be stupid. btw, I actually like Carver.
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 20:23:29 GMT
She personally trains her guards. She couldn't kick the recklessness out of Carver in his own training while telling him not to put his teammates at risk? She trains her guards after she becomes guard-captain. She was just a refugee with a job in the guard until then. A year with smugglers or mercenaries didn't cool his temper or his recklessness. Carver hasn't shown any great inclination to listen to her about what he might do, about the people he hangs around with, some of his other shenanigans and he knows she's keeping an eye on him. He is also consistently rude to her. Why should she say he'd be a good candidate to be a guard? from the wiki: Carver: Did you approve my application? Aveline: I can't make you a guard, Carver. Carver: We were both soldiers. Why won't they take me? Aveline: I was an officer. And I follow orders. Carver: (Laughs) No you don't. Aveline: I also think of others before myself. You seem tired of that, and that's dangerous. Carver: Just when it's not my choice. You told them not to take me, didn't you? Aveline: Yes. To me, this doesn't prove whether she volunteered the information or they asked her opinion because she knew Carver. Why is he even asking if she, a fairly new guard and a refugee, approve his application? Unless he's really asking about what she said as a reference. I therefore contend that she didn't peruse the applications and go to her bosses and tell them not to be stupid. btw, I actually like Carver. Again, I have no issues with Aveline refusing Carver for professional reasons. But claiming that she did it to make things better for him is not something I can back. Failing on his own would hammer in that he really does need to get his act together but when Aveline interfered, she now gave him an excuse to blame someone. It's like refusing to help Aveline with Donnic. Nothing says that Hawke has to do this favor for her and in fact they can refuse to do so because they don't think they're good for each other. But should Aveline thank Hawke for that?
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♨ Retired
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0
24,310
themikefest
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August 2016
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Post by themikefest on Jul 19, 2018 22:07:51 GMT
If I was Hawke, I would get in Vallen's face and ask if she's worried that if Carver did become a guard, he would be better than her?
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Post by opuspace on Jul 19, 2018 22:27:47 GMT
If I was Hawke, I would get in Vallen's face and ask if she's worried that if Carver did become a guard, he would be better than her? Hawke doesn't get to even defend their sibling on this?
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