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Post by Iddy on Jul 21, 2018 14:35:01 GMT
In The Calling, Bregan says the Wardens survive on scraps when there is no Blight around.
This is something I've always wondered about. Do Grey Wardens get paid? If so, where does that money come from? Where do they live when they're not out on a mission?
Also, Fiona says that Grey Wardens aren't allowed to keep children. If they happen to have one, they give him/her up for someone else to raise.
This makes me wonder about Kieran. I guess the problem is solved by the fact that he is with Morrigan, but she does mention that the HoF helped her raise him.
If so, how? Isn't that against the rules?
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Post by davesin on Jul 21, 2018 14:50:13 GMT
Kieran himself is against any rules Wardens have. Being a father seems to be like a minor thing considerning the HoF should be dead alongside the Archdemon. Besides, it's not like Wardens have any chance to punish HoF for this. Unless they have an access to Eluvian.
As for money - good question. I wonder if WoT has an anwer for that.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 21, 2018 14:56:38 GMT
Kieran himself is against any rules Wardens have. Being a father seems to be like a minor thing considerning the HoF should be dead alongside the Archdemon. Besides, it's not like Wardens have any chance to punish HoF for this. Unless they have an access to Eluvian. As for money - good question. I wonder if WoT has an anwer for that. Unless Loghain is sacrificed instead~
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Post by Catilina on Jul 21, 2018 15:01:32 GMT
Kieran himself is against any rules Wardens have. Being a father seems to be like a minor thing considerning the HoF should be dead alongside the Archdemon. Besides, it's not like Wardens have any chance to punish HoF for this. Unless they have an access to Eluvian. As for money - good question. I wonder if WoT has an anwer for that. I'm not sure. The Wardens do everything against the blight – what about it can help? According to Morrigan, the kid gets the Old God's untainted soul... perhaps, it worth a try.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 21, 2018 15:07:44 GMT
Against the rules? The Grey Wardens always break the rules... why would their own rules the exception? And don't forget: to be a Grey Warden is for life. You can't just leave. Whatever happens, the blood will call you. Before Fiona, nobody was able to turn back to the Taint.... perhaps Anders/Justice, and perhaps, the Warden can find an ultimate solution... But yet? There's no escape.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 15:13:40 GMT
They own land and estates, like in DAA. That will bring in revenue.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 21, 2018 15:26:41 GMT
Technically leaving the Wardens is against the rules yet both Fiona and Anders seem to do this without any repercussions. Fiona seems to hint she was asked to leave seeing as she no longer had the taint but Anders faked his death, so essentially it was desertion. I never understood why poor Jordy could be murdered by Duncan for refusing to take the Joining, because apparently once you agree to join there is no turning back, yet Anders could walk away, actually come into contact with Warden patrols and yet nothing is done about him. So a fair bit of inconsistency there even if you can never escape the effects of the taint.
As for family connections, again this has not been consistently applied. In DAO it would seem that once you join the Wardens you sever all family connections. Nathaniel said that his family never knew what became of his ancestor who went to join the Wardens but never contacted them again and we surmise it is because he failed the Joining but even so the Order could have notified the family of his death but if you are considered to have broken all ties on Joining I suppose they feel there is no obligation on their part. However, in DAA the Warden whose body Justice occupies (whose name escapes me at present) had a wife and kept in touch with her, so apparently it is not entirely forbidden.
Generally I would have thought that breaking bonds with family and not having children is because the Wardens do lead a subsistence sort of existence so would not have much in the way of spare funds to care for any dependents. So far as children are concerned, we are also told how difficult it is for a Warden usually to have children because the Taint renders them infertile, so it is not so much forbidden as normally impossible or at least very difficult. I think the Dark Ritual had a definite fertility element to it that guaranteed conception, plus Alistair and the HoF are only fairly recent recruits so maybe the infertility hadn't properly kicked in.
They also may disapprove of having family ties because of the conflict of interest with the demands of the Order. Your comrades in arms should always come first in your loyalties but with a family and children these would be divided. For this reason I think Duncan was wrong to even consider Jordy for recruitment considering he was only recently married and his wife was pregnant. It was clear he was still concerned about her with good reason. At the very least he should have been told that signing up meant breaking all ties with home and then maybe he would never have agreed to it in the first place.
Warden treaties seem to guarantee some degree of support from local nobility. We use them in DAI to gain funds for the Inquisition and then contributors are not happy when it is discovered our Grey Warden Blackwell was bogus and ask for their money back. So it would seem that the Order do get some sort of stipend from local leaders to tide them over in return for dealing with any darkspawn threats. After all they do break out on the surface from time to time between Blights and need dealing with.
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Post by davesin on Jul 21, 2018 15:45:27 GMT
Catilina That would be a big "if" for many Wardens, I'm sure. They generally kill Archdemons, Kieran is quite a breach of this tradition. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them would try to kill the boy just to be sure. It would be interesting if Bioware went this route in DA4, but alas, Kieran has no OG soul at the end of Inquisition. Iddy To put it simple, I just don't think Wardens would do anything regarding HoF, regardless of outcome (they might be interested in Kieran with OG soul, but they don't know about him as far as I know). Even if they would know where he is, Wardens put their recources to fight the Darkspawn, not to trouble themselves with deserters (otherwise Templars would be Anders' smallest problem).
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Post by Catilina on Jul 21, 2018 16:13:02 GMT
Catilina That would be a big "if" for many Wardens, I'm sure. They generally kill Archdemons, Kieran is quite a breach of this tradition. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them would try to kill the boy just to be sure. It would be interesting if Bioware went this route in DA4, but alas, Kieran has no OG soul at the end of Inquisition. Iddy To put it simple, I just don't think Wardens would do anything regarding HoF, regardless of outcome (they might be interested in Kieran with OG soul, but they don't know about him as far as I know). Even if they would know where he is, Wardens put their recources to fight the Darkspawn, not to trouble themselves with deserters (otherwise Templars would be Anders' smallest problem). Yes, I know. Always that IF is the problem... or the solution... depends on the view. And we only see what happens if..., when already happened.
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Post by davesin on Jul 21, 2018 16:20:34 GMT
Yes, I know. Always that IF is the problem... or the solution... depends on the view. And we only see what happens if..., when already happened. It almost forces a person to blow up Weisshaupt, doesn't it?
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Post by Catilina on Jul 21, 2018 16:22:54 GMT
Yes, I know. Always that IF is the problem... or the solution... depends on the view. And we only see what happens if..., when already happened. It almost forces a person to blow up Weisshaupt, doesn't it? Why would? Don't need to blow up everything! What a nonsense!
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Post by Catilina on Jul 21, 2018 16:25:35 GMT
Technically leaving the Wardens is against the rules yet both Fiona and Anders seem to do this without any repercussions. Fiona seems to hint she was asked to leave seeing as she no longer had the taint but Anders faked his death, so essentially it was desertion. I never understood why poor Jordy could be murdered by Duncan for refusing to take the Joining, because apparently once you agree to join there is no turning back, yet Anders could walk away, actually come into contact with Warden patrols and yet nothing is done about him. So a fair bit of inconsistency there even if you can never escape the effects of the taint.
As for family connections, again this has not been consistently applied. In DAO it would seem that once you join the Wardens you sever all family connections. Nathaniel said that his family never knew what became of his ancestor who went to join the Wardens but never contacted them again and we surmise it is because he failed the Joining but even so the Order could have notified the family of his death but if you are considered to have broken all ties on Joining I suppose they feel there is no obligation on their part. However, in DAA the Warden whose body Justice occupies (whose name escapes me at present) had a wife and kept in touch with her, so apparently it is not entirely forbidden.
Generally I would have thought that breaking bonds with family and not having children is because the Wardens do lead a subsistence sort of existence so would not have much in the way of spare funds to care for any dependents. So far as children are concerned, we are also told how difficult it is for a Warden usually to have children because the Taint renders them infertile, so it is not so much forbidden as normally impossible or at least very difficult. I think the Dark Ritual had a definite fertility element to it that guaranteed conception, plus Alistair and the HoF are only fairly recent recruits so maybe the infertility hadn't properly kicked in.
They also may disapprove of having family ties because of the conflict of interest with the demands of the Order. Your comrades in arms should always come first in your loyalties but with a family and children these would be divided. For this reason I think Duncan was wrong to even consider Jordy for recruitment considering he was only recently married and his wife was pregnant. It was clear he was still concerned about her with good reason. At the very least he should have been told that signing up meant breaking all ties with home and then maybe he would never have agreed to it in the first place.
Warden treaties seem to guarantee some degree of support from local nobility. We use them in DAI to gain funds for the Inquisition and then contributors are not happy when it is discovered our Grey Warden Blackwell was bogus and ask for their money back. So it would seem that the Order do get some sort of stipend from local leaders to tide them over in return for dealing with any darkspawn threats. After all they do break out on the surface from time to time between Blights and need dealing with. Jory knew about the Wardens secret – as civil. I don't see any other reasons.
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Post by davesin on Jul 21, 2018 16:27:27 GMT
It almost forces a person to blow up Weisshaupt, doesn't it? Why would? Don't need to blow up everything! What a nonsense! Killing the opposition with traditional metods is also sufficient, sure. Divine Stabity-stab confirms it.
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Post by Sokemis on Jul 21, 2018 17:58:28 GMT
This makes me wonder about Kieran. I guess the problem is solved by the fact that he is with Morrigan, but she does mention that the HoF helped her raise him. If so, how? Isn't that against the rules? "Warden's can't raise kids." "Warden's can't get involved in political matters." "Warden's can't avoid death by stealing the soul of the archdemon in a magical sex ritual with their girlfriend." "You can't leave the Wardens and take off for Antiva to systematically destroy an assassin guild with your boyfriend." When it comes to Grey Warden rules, I think the HoF takes the position of:
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 21, 2018 18:22:16 GMT
It seems from the games that Wardens can have families. Krystof was married, Jory presumably wasn't going to have to never see his kid, Sophia Dryden had descendants and Donal's grandfather was a Warden (or so he said, anyway).
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Post by warden on Jul 21, 2018 19:26:37 GMT
Most likely for the lands they own, some how gives them a revenue, but don't forget, Grey Wardens hq is in Weisshaupt, the wardens from Anderfels are considered nobility because people in Anderfels wants to and the Grey Wardens there embrace it, so I think it's not far fetched if the wardens from other countries get also assignments from Weisshaupt and that comes with a revenue, though that doesn't mean that sometimes they can't have a hard time, can happen. Also, even if there is not blight, that doesn't mean that darkspawn problems can't emerge from time to time, it can happen, so there is that.
Ideally as a Grey Warden, when there is no blight, it's better to not get involved with anything that's not darkspawn, but at the same time, they are very autonomous, so I think it comes to individual judgment if you are having a hard time with money and you are in dire need for it, then you can go and take on a helping job and after that move on.
To be honest, in some matters the HoF is the exception of the rule so, there isn't much to say than that, but I agree with Gervaise21, there are some inconsistencies and vague explanations, that really would need better clarification/explanation even if a lot of things in the end will have to be rewrited.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jul 21, 2018 19:35:12 GMT
It seems from the games that Wardens can have families. Krystof was married, Jory presumably wasn't going to have to never see his kid, Sophia Dryden had descendants and Donal's grandfather was a Warden (or so he said, anyway). Jory had a family before becoming (or agreeing to become) a Warden. Sophia Dryden was sentenced to become a Warden as punishment for losing the battle for the throne so it's likely she already had a family as well, being a noble. The others could be in the same boat, family first then joining. I would say it's pretty unlikely for them to start a family after they become Wardens, for one due to the job itself and two due to the infertility thing. HoF/Al/Loghain being the exception due to the ritual, but unless HoF romanced Morrigan, that isn't really a family anyway.
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Post by opuspace on Jul 21, 2018 19:41:54 GMT
It seems from the games that Wardens can have families. Krystof was married, Jory presumably wasn't going to have to never see his kid, Sophia Dryden had descendants and Donal's grandfather was a Warden (or so he said, anyway). Jory had a family before becoming (or agreeing to become) a Warden. Sophia Dryden was sentenced to become a Warden as punishment for losing the battle for the throne so it's likely she already had a family as well, being a noble. The others could be in the same boat, family first then joining. I would say it's pretty unlikely for them to start a family after they become Wardens, for one due to the job itself and two due to the infertility thing. HoF/Al/Loghain being the exception due to the ritual, but unless HoF romanced Morrigan, that isn't really a family anyway. Didn't Loghain have Anora?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jul 21, 2018 19:47:53 GMT
Jory had a family before becoming (or agreeing to become) a Warden. Sophia Dryden was sentenced to become a Warden as punishment for losing the battle for the throne so it's likely she already had a family as well, being a noble. The others could be in the same boat, family first then joining. I would say it's pretty unlikely for them to start a family after they become Wardens, for one due to the job itself and two due to the infertility thing. HoF/Al/Loghain being the exception due to the ritual, but unless HoF romanced Morrigan, that isn't really a family anyway. Didn't Loghain have Anora? Well before he became a Warden. OGB only happens after becoming a Warden, and only because of magic. That's my point - we don't have any other evidence of Wardens having children after they joined the order but we do have examples of people who already had children later becoming a Warden. Probably Nate's grandfather falls into the latter category as well; since no one heard from him afterwards, his children would have already been born.
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Post by opuspace on Jul 21, 2018 19:55:49 GMT
Didn't Loghain have Anora? Well before he became a Warden. OGB only happens after becoming a Warden, and only because of magic. That's my point - we don't have any other evidence of Wardens having children after they joined the order but we do have examples of people who already had children later becoming a Warden. Probably Nate's grandfather falls into the latter category as well; since no one heard from him afterwards, his children would have already been born. Ah, that's what you meant. I'm reminded of that Fade journal of that child who had a Warden father but with it being a dream, there's no way to be sure his father was able to stay and raise him.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 943 Likes: 1,658
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 21, 2018 19:59:20 GMT
Didn't Loghain have Anora? Well before he became a Warden. OGB only happens after becoming a Warden, and only because of magic. That's my point - we don't have any other evidence of Wardens having children after they joined the order but we do have examples of people who already had children later becoming a Warden. Probably Nate's grandfather falls into the latter category as well; since no one heard from him afterwards, his children would have already been born. But the Warden and Morrigan can have a normal child - no magic involved. As for the OGB, I think it's suggested the Warden is involved in his life.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jul 21, 2018 20:01:25 GMT
Well before he became a Warden. OGB only happens after becoming a Warden, and only because of magic. That's my point - we don't have any other evidence of Wardens having children after they joined the order but we do have examples of people who already had children later becoming a Warden. Probably Nate's grandfather falls into the latter category as well; since no one heard from him afterwards, his children would have already been born. But the Warden and Morrigan can have a normal child - no magic involved.That we know of.....
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Post by ellehaym on Jul 21, 2018 20:19:18 GMT
Since the Wardens do go to the Deeproads sometimes I wonder if they get ancient dwarven artifacts and sell them?
Depending on how friendly they are with nobles and rulers then I can see some of them using their connections to get some more funds and recruits. I'm sure Weisshaupt sends some stuff over if requested.
Since the Wardens also recruit criminals then I wonder if some are tasked to steal things and sell them?
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Post by Iddy on Jul 21, 2018 20:51:10 GMT
Since the Wardens do go to the Deeproads sometimes I wonder if they get ancient dwarven artifacts and sell them? Depending on how friendly they are with nobles and rulers then I can see some of them using their connections to get some more funds and recruits. I'm sure Weisshaupt sends some stuff over if requested. Since the Wardens also recruit criminals then I wonder if some are tasked to steal things and sell them? The dwarves would consider it theft.
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Post by Sokemis on Jul 21, 2018 20:59:25 GMT
Since the Wardens do go to the Deeproads sometimes I wonder if they get ancient dwarven artifacts and sell them? Depending on how friendly they are with nobles and rulers then I can see some of them using their connections to get some more funds and recruits. I'm sure Weisshaupt sends some stuff over if requested. Since the Wardens also recruit criminals then I wonder if some are tasked to steal things and sell them? The dwarves would consider it theft. It's only illegal if you get caught
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