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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 25, 2018 21:01:56 GMT
The lines are increasingly blurred about what we 'own' as gamers and what we merely rent.
Online game services and 'Netflix of games' are increasingly a thing.
What are your thoughts on these trends and their likely end point?
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Post by bshep on Jul 30, 2018 21:46:24 GMT
Nope. I still prefer to own the games.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 30, 2018 21:56:13 GMT
Nope. I still prefer to own the games. I agree. The most annoying part is that 'rental' confers full early access of a week that 'buyers' don't get.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 22:11:09 GMT
Nope. I still prefer to own the games. I agree. The most annoying part is that 'rental' confers full early access of a week that 'buyers' don't get. They've got to make you believe that by 'renting' you're getting a better deal than 'buying' even it is a very weak argument. Though I'm sure there will be people that will lap it up. I'm not one of them, sorry EA you lose
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 31, 2018 5:32:39 GMT
Nope. I still prefer to own the games. I also like owning, but I'm way past the physical copy. I hardly ever buy physical, only for special editions, day one games (e.g. for cyberpunk or anthem I would buy it). But all other games I just get from the cloud
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 31, 2018 9:19:02 GMT
You don't really buy an online game. That is really just a service. When the servers go out - you own nothing and can't play it anymore.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 31, 2018 9:40:59 GMT
You don't really buy an online game. That is really just a service. When the servers go out - you own nothing and can't play it anymore. This is true enough. If EA launches an Xbox version of Premiere, I may well be tempted...
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jul 31, 2018 9:53:00 GMT
You don't really buy an online game. That is really just a service. When the servers go out - you own nothing and can't play it anymore. At the moment, this also seems to be true for Steam games. Backups from shady internet corner then?
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 31, 2018 10:00:03 GMT
You don't really buy an online game. That is really just a service. When the servers go out - you own nothing and can't play it anymore. This is true enough. If EA launches an Xbox version of Premiere, I may well be tempted... There is a certain push for "game streaming" in the industry.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 31, 2018 10:01:06 GMT
You don't really buy an online game. That is really just a service. When the servers go out - you own nothing and can't play it anymore. At the moment, this also seems to be true for Steam games. Backups from shady internet corner then? Is it possible to remove steam DRM?
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jul 31, 2018 10:20:11 GMT
At the moment, this also seems to be true for Steam games. Backups from shady internet corner then? Is it possible to remove steam DRM? I know its possible by cracking teams, no other comments.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 31, 2018 10:37:02 GMT
You don't really buy an online game. That is really just a service. When the servers go out - you own nothing and can't play it anymore. Well, if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty, you never really 'buy' a 'game' either, you pay for an experience. If you've played the game and have had the experience, they may remove it from the servers, they can't take away what you had.
Also, the likelihood of the games being removed in the near future is small.
Finally, the downside is only if they remove games which you would want to play from several years ago. Something which I never do. I prefer my nostalgic feeling from my experience with a game opposed to replaying it again after a few years.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 31, 2018 10:37:12 GMT
Nope. I still prefer to own the games. Well technically you don't own intellectual property - basically, you rent your copy until a.) something happens to it b.) they revoke it.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 31, 2018 10:48:43 GMT
Nope. I still prefer to own the games. Well technically you don't own intellectual property - basically, you rent your copy until a.) something happens to it b.) they revoke it. Semamtics shmantix. This isn't how it worked historically. Books aren't leased, they are either sold for purchase (bookstore) or leased as a rental item (library). It is that author's IP, yet you own a copy. Is there any dispute that you own that?
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 31, 2018 11:00:03 GMT
Well technically you don't own intellectual property - basically, you rent your copy until a.) something happens to it b.) they revoke it. Semamtics shmantix. This isn't how it worked historically. Books aren't leased, they are either sold for purchase (bookstore) or leased as a rental item (library). It is that author's IP, yet you own a copy. Is there any dispute that you own that? Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but games aren't books. Or movies for that matter. And so long as something happened to fresh copy or you bought a faulty one from the get go, the publisher or IP owner is not obliged to supply you with a new copy of the IP. So no, you never buy an IP if you buy a book/movie/game, which is why you can't never really freely copy it too (unless specifically allowed to). I also would like to point out that books as we know them are on their way out. We had books because we didn't have anything better format-wise - intellectual property was also approached differently. So the fact that this isn't how it worked historically is a moot point.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 31, 2018 11:20:06 GMT
Semamtics shmantix. This isn't how it worked historically. Books aren't leased, they are either sold for purchase (bookstore) or leased as a rental item (library). It is that author's IP, yet you own a copy. Is there any dispute that you own that? Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but games aren't books. Or movies for that matter. And so long as something happened to fresh copy or you bought a faulty one from the get go, the publisher or IP owner is not obliged to supply you with a new copy of the IP. So no, you never buy an IP if you buy a book/movie/game, which is why you can't never really freely copy it too (unless specifically allowed to). I also would like to point out that books as we know them are on their way out. We had books because we didn't have anything better format-wise - intellectual property was also approached differently. So the fact that this isn't how it worked historically is a moot point. The trend to streaming services for TV and movies kinda underlines this. And games are kinda looking to get there too.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 31, 2018 12:32:48 GMT
Semamtics shmantix. This isn't how it worked historically. Books aren't leased, they are either sold for purchase (bookstore) or leased as a rental item (library). It is that author's IP, yet you own a copy. Is there any dispute that you own that? Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but games aren't books. Or movies for that matter. And so long as something happened to fresh copy or you bought a faulty one from the get go, the publisher or IP owner is not obliged to supply you with a new copy of the IP. So no, you never buy an IP if you buy a book/movie/game, which is why you can't never really freely copy it too (unless specifically allowed to). I also would like to point out that books as we know them are on their way out. We had books because we didn't have anything better format-wise - intellectual property was also approached differently. So the fact that this isn't how it worked historically is a moot point. Games are books. You just believe otherwise. Multiplayer games, you have an argument. Single player games are books. Don't believe their lies.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 31, 2018 12:44:06 GMT
Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but games aren't books. Or movies for that matter. And so long as something happened to fresh copy or you bought a faulty one from the get go, the publisher or IP owner is not obliged to supply you with a new copy of the IP. So no, you never buy an IP if you buy a book/movie/game, which is why you can't never really freely copy it too (unless specifically allowed to). I also would like to point out that books as we know them are on their way out. We had books because we didn't have anything better format-wise - intellectual property was also approached differently. So the fact that this isn't how it worked historically is a moot point. Games are books. You just believe otherwise. Multiplayer games, you have an argument. Single player games are books. Don't believe their lies. Oh? Can books be updated? Can they get DLCs? Can they get patches? I mean, lol - even if books get new editions, show me which publishing companies send those to you after you bought an outdated one? Oh, that's right - virtually none do that because that's not how it works with books. So no, games aren't books. Not even single player ones. Don't compare apples to oranges.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 31, 2018 13:09:39 GMT
Games are books. You just believe otherwise. Multiplayer games, you have an argument. Single player games are books. Don't believe their lies. Oh? Can books be updated? Can they get DLCs? Can they get patches? I mean, lol - even if books get new editions, show me which publishing companies send those to you after you bought an outdated one? Oh, that's right - virtually none do that because that's not how it works with books. So no, games aren't books. Not even single player ones. Don't compare apples to oranges. Well, that is you acquiescing to the modern publisher model, I'm afraid. Games used to be released as is, and the quality was either good or bad from the start, just like a book. I approve of DLC. It is an add-on. I do not approve of your industrial deep throat. Stop being glad that industry takes advantage of you.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 31, 2018 13:13:38 GMT
Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but games aren't books. Or movies for that matter. And so long as something happened to fresh copy or you bought a faulty one from the get go, the publisher or IP owner is not obliged to supply you with a new copy of the IP. So no, you never buy an IP if you buy a book/movie/game, which is why you can't never really freely copy it too (unless specifically allowed to). I also would like to point out that books as we know them are on their way out. We had books because we didn't have anything better format-wise - intellectual property was also approached differently. So the fact that this isn't how it worked historically is a moot point. The trend to streaming services for TV and movies kinda underlines this. And games are kinda looking to get there too. Yea, I don't want to sound facetious - I get that people are concerned that something they like will disappear if they don't have a hard copy... but the illusion of owning something disappears quickly once something bad starts happening to our copy. In case of games or programs it gets even more acute with each update to the software or hardware. Nevermind just the sheer number of games or movies or even books that flood our market every day - is it possible that at some point buying individual titles becomes just too expensive for regular people? Of course, the subscription model ain't something that is alien even to written publications, and the more serialized something is, the more sense it makes.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 31, 2018 13:34:31 GMT
Oh? Can books be updated? Can they get DLCs? Can they get patches? I mean, lol - even if books get new editions, show me which publishing companies send those to you after you bought an outdated one? Oh, that's right - virtually none do that because that's not how it works with books. So no, games aren't books. Not even single player ones. Don't compare apples to oranges. Well, that is you acquiescing to the modern publisher model, I'm afraid. Games used to be released as is, and the quality was either good or bad from the start, just like a book. I approve of DLC. It is an add-on. I do not approve of your industrial deep throat. Stop being glad that industry takes advantage of you. I'm not acquiescing to anything - what I do is I recognize that clinging to the past is useless and short-sighted. Games get updated and expanded. It's just a natural way how things are evolving, given technological advancements and expansion of the Internet. It's actually a good thing, IMO. I can get way more from my purchase than I did before as the industry doesn't just churn out the product and does little to fix it later. I love all the patches and little additions I get that I didn't get before or had to pay way more for them and I love seeing the product evolve without being confined to one, specific version, locked in time. That applies to both AAA and indie titles, or even my own works. So no, nobody is taking advantage of me and you're naive in flattening the whole thing to shady industry practices. Also: go take your immature sexual metaphors somewhere else, they're not welcome and border on ad hom.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 31, 2018 13:50:20 GMT
I have no idea what's the endpoint, because the way we consume media evolves together with our technology and sometimes it's hard where that'd go - who knew all those years ago that we'd be using our phones watch/read/play stuff, for example?
Though I do see society continually falling out of love with the notion of a. truly owning something or b. physical copies, the more Internet becomes prevalent.
I also see more and more industries heading towards the subscription model and the like... Heck, you can even subscribe to food services these days.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 31, 2018 13:56:39 GMT
Well, that is you acquiescing to the modern publisher model, I'm afraid. Games used to be released as is, and the quality was either good or bad from the start, just like a book. I approve of DLC. It is an add-on. I do not approve of your industrial deep throat. Stop being glad that industry takes advantage of you. I'm not acquiescing to anything - what I do is I recognize that clinging to the past is useless and short-sighted. Games get updated and expanded. It's just a natural way how things are evolving, given technological advancements and expansion of the Internet. It's actually a good thing, IMO. I can get way more from my purchase than I did before as the industry doesn't just churn out the product and does little to fix it later. I love all the patches and little additions I get that I didn't get before or had to pay way more for them and I love seeing the product evolve without being confined to one, specific version, locked in time. That applies to both AAA and indie titles, or even my own works. So no, nobody is taking advantage of me and you're naive in flattening the whole thing to shady industry practices. Also: go take your immature sexual metaphors somewhere else, they're not welcome and border on ad hom. Rather sceptical. What hinders publisher to throw even thinner stuff on the market? There is still quite a worth in the "finished product" for me compared to possible deliberate tampering with online services to push mtx - a "feature" that dint bother us "in the good old days". Perfectly possibly to screw your experience from one day to the next with the next best "update". And because it's online you can't mod it out. And if they catch you they will terminate that service agreement and no more access for you. I also envision paid cheats and the like.
I rather think there'll be our tirple A friends jumping on that bandwagon, piecemealing content further and selling bits of it and there will be some that take advantage of "good old fashioned products" to have their niche and customer base.
But overall, I more expect GaaS and streaming to be a somewhat lackluster offering.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 31, 2018 14:32:05 GMT
I'm not acquiescing to anything - what I do is I recognize that clinging to the past is useless and short-sighted. Games get updated and expanded. It's just a natural way how things are evolving, given technological advancements and expansion of the Internet. It's actually a good thing, IMO. I can get way more from my purchase than I did before as the industry doesn't just churn out the product and does little to fix it later. I love all the patches and little additions I get that I didn't get before or had to pay way more for them and I love seeing the product evolve without being confined to one, specific version, locked in time. That applies to both AAA and indie titles, or even my own works. So no, nobody is taking advantage of me and you're naive in flattening the whole thing to shady industry practices. Also: go take your immature sexual metaphors somewhere else, they're not welcome and border on ad hom. Rather sceptical. What hinders publisher to throw even thinner stuff on the market? There is still quite a worth in the "finished product" for me compared to possible deliberate tampering with online services to push mtx - a "feature" that dint bother us "in the good old days". Lack of mtx or presence of only 'finished product' didn't stop game publishers or developers from crashing the market once already (flooding us with cheap crap was one of the main factors then). As if that didn't happen before? How many old games do really work on new computers, really? I mean, nevermind CD just not working anymore - the DRMs I've had on some CDs has prevented me from playing the games after I bought a new PC, even though games were perfectly legit and legally bought. Nothing has been done about it because the publisher didn't care. All I could do is buy another copy - but oh wait, there aren't really many of those after they cease printing them, aren't there? And how many publishers play the game of releasing limited game/versions or consoles just to keep the price artificially inflated (it's not just something that games do)? Point is that bad practices have existed and will exist regardless of format and 'finished copies' aren't better in preventing those. This isn't just an issue of AAA games inventing new exploitative practices - we're looking at rethinking strategies of how to get to and stick with people and that includes indies and individual creators that oftentimes also utilize subscription/loyalty models of some kind these days. With the way the market is flooded these days with thirty zillion things at light speed pace as well as technological advancements that allow us to access things instantly/update them on short notice it's not surprising we're looking at a revolution.
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Post by bshep on Jul 31, 2018 15:37:23 GMT
Nope. I still prefer to own the games. Well technically you don't own intellectual property - basically, you rent your copy until a.) something happens to it b.) they revoke it. Not according to the laws in my country. I can't profit from copyrighted material but I own any software copy i bought. Consumer rights done correctly.
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