midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 1, 2018 14:34:08 GMT
buying the license to utilize a thing doesn't yet make you own it TOS aside, there's a reason why you don't see a lot of court cases where companies try to enforce this. Most shops also don't go after minor thieves, but that still doesn't make stealing legal. And they know. Or at the very least law enforcement knows. I'm also aware because I happen to have friends in law enforcement and I know for a fact that they've confiscated maaaaany PCs of those that were careless with spreading content that wasn't theirs. I'm fairly sure that eternity will last a bit longer than GoG, your account on it or hardware you keep a copy of the game on. And you only hold an illusion of owning it. Nevermind that even the fact that software today is easily and frequently updated will kill the illusion of ownership fast. The ancient copy of Word that I still own neither works on my current PC nor I think I'd want to use it anyhow, given that even WordPad is better than it now anyway. And how many games now are way better now than they were at a time of release? Personally, I prefer to pay for an increasingly improving, even if temporal, experience than hold to outdated stuff I usually have no use for after a few years. But that's just my opinion.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 1, 2018 15:23:06 GMT
Most shops also don't go after minor thieves, but that still doesn't make stealing legal. And they know. Or at the very least law enforcement knows. I'm also aware because I happen to have friends in law enforcement and I know for a fact that they've confiscated maaaaany PCs of those that were careless with spreading content that wasn't theirs. Not what I was referring to. I was referring to disputes in regards to things which can be enforced according to the TOS. Example: I like to mod/crack/cheat/mess with SP games. I'm sure that according to TOS of some games (even SP ones) this isn't allowed. However, I don't find that restriction to be reasonable. I suspect that if some publishers (for example) tried to push enforcement of TOS to the letter, it might not end as they hope, certainly not in every country. Whether you're referring to modding games or in context of owning it, the fact that there are companies/publishers that are looking through fingers or don't even bother with stuff like modding/cheating matters little when it comes to the issue of ownership of the thing. Especially that larger or more notorious perpetrators are oftentimes still dealt with, depending on what their transgression was and who they pissed off. So you're saying that the games oftentimes don't work if they don't have mods dedicated to making them work and their existence is entirely dependent on outside parties willing to spend enough time to resuscitate them on current PCs? So if the system works flawlessly for you, it needs no fixes overall? What's fine for you is fine for everybody else? Even if not on the consumer side, then maybe on the creator side? I mean, who are we kidding - I don't think game companies or publishers are at a time when they want to force everybody to buy a sub. People will likely have an ability to buy individual games alongside subscription services anyhow, so I don't know why it's approached like it's about to replace individual's choice, rather than expanding choices already available on the market for those who find it sensible or attractive. I also find it a bit jarring that people keep oversimplifying the idea of a subscription to some sort of corporate cash grab instead of looking at the trend more broadly - because it just so happens that it is a broader trend going beyond the games or the corporate ideas to generate money.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 1, 2018 17:28:03 GMT
Whether you're referring to modding games or in context of owning it, the fact that there are companies/publishers that are looking through fingers or don't even bother with stuff like modding/cheating matters little when it comes to the issue of ownership of the thing. Especially that larger or more notorious perpetrators are oftentimes still dealt with, depending on what their transgression was and who they pissed off. Of course it matters. For example, in order to implement a subscription service for video games, you require a very substantial DRM system in place. Otherwise people will just keep those games installed and cancel their subscription. The heavier the DRM, the less likely it is that you'd be able to mess with a game without triggering some sort of a ban. As I see it, this is a reduction in the level of de-facto ownership. (not to mention that I object to DRM on principle and buy everything I can on GOG because of it) The very same thing you're talking about is easily implemented simply by having account-bound games (something that Steam began on a wide scale and is now industry norm) - something that subscription can't exist without, but something DRMs don't need a subscription for. Nevermind that we've gone way beyond the point that was made in the part of the discussion you're responding with the above. By 'option' you mean hoping that there are enough talented modders out there and the given game is programmed well enough to make it work with each update to hardware or OS, which not a given at all. Nevermind that I am all for modders being recognized as legit content creators and reimbursed for their work and am glad that there's some movement towards that. So instead of subbing to the game catalog you may soon be subbing to modders to access mods that make your game work. Individual creator subscriptions are a thing ever since Patreon went live. Also... who said that you need to pay more and who said that games wouldn't be available to buy or mod outside of subscription services? ...You realize that live services have been directly inspired by modding and the longevity of titles such like Skyrim? Ultimately each publisher and game company will decide what will happen with older games - I just don't think there's reason to sound an alarm over natural evolution of the medium where it's not just modders, but developers themselves that care about the longevity of their product and can make it so that updated game won't fry PCs (something that almost happened to me yesterday after modding C:S). I can't help but view this as a pretty short-sighted approach. There are two sides to this coin - the gamers and game developers. And game production costs have been a hot-button issue lately with game development cost rising exponentially while staying at a fixed price, hence all the efforts to find new monetization strategies. Nevermind the constant struggle to reach the buyer, which is an issue for both major players and indies. Also - are you sure people aren't complaining? They may be not complaining directly about the monetization structure, but how many people complain at the state of games or their content... you think that's not related, at least in a portion of cases? Whether you care or not, their concerns have more or less direct effect on the product they offer, so regardless how little you care you - and all of us, consumers - are directly impacted by this as well. It's never a one-sided affair, especially not in the current gaming culture or market. If the way of doing business for Corporate isn't about fairness, then this also applies to them selling games as they used to till now, isn't it? After all, we know that they didn't need subscription services to try and screw people over in multiple different ways across decades, hadn't they? We didn't need subs or microtransactions for the gaming market to crash once already, did we? Which is true every day, across every industry and concerning basically everything. Dodging dubious bullets and being vigilant about our interests is the gist of adulting, not just conscious consumerism. Exclusives for consoles are now some of the best AAA games there are, because in order for companies to convince people to buy consoles they have to have a kickass game selection and they're willing to lose money on more ambitious projects if they ultimately bring them more console owners. Same thing can happen with subscription model, and those offering it would actually have to be really, really creative and competitive between one another to keep people loyal because unsubbing from something is way easier (and less costly) than, say, selling a console someone has no use for anymore. And we already know what good subscription model can do outside of games - newspapers and magazines really seem to benefit from it, cull the plague of yellow journalism (clickbait existed long before Internet), and directly improve their quality (hence the major resurgence of newspapers, especially ones with subs), because just as subbers chose to be loyal to chosen newspapers, newspapers have to be loyal to their subbers instead of, say, advertisers. I'm aware that things can always go in a bad direction, but I know for a fact that looking just at the dark side of things is simply unproductive and oftentimes dismisses ideas that can do better than past systems if done right. Let them try subs and let's see if it works. If it doesn't it will likely end like lootboxes or season passes, which are now widely considered faux pas.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 2, 2018 8:47:34 GMT
I don't really like it. I much prefer making a significant one-time purchase over small regular payments for potentially eternity.
I'll pay a subscription fee for a service if it can convince me that it's worth it, but I'm especially chagrined that the major console manufacturers all now want me to pay a subscription to use multiplayer services; a feature that used to be standard in the games where it applied.
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 3, 2018 7:49:48 GMT
I like to own things, and I was late to the digital download party because ownership was so vague.
I have TV and music subscriptions and I quite like them, but untill all games and dlc are available on release through a subscription service I wouldn't consider it. Like, the Sims base game is part of origin access, but the extensions and packs aren't. I'm not going to buy the add ons and subscribe to the base game.
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 3, 2018 7:55:51 GMT
I don't really like it. I much prefer making a significant one-time purchase over small regular payments for potentially eternity. I'll pay a subscription fee for a service if it can convince me that it's worth it, but I'm especially chagrined that the major console manufacturers all now want me to pay a subscription to use multiplayer services; a feature that used to be standard in the games where it applied. Having to pay extra to access multiplayer content, not that I play often, is a valid reason for me to get a game on PC rather than on console. I'm fortunate to be able to have both so able to make that choice, but if you only have a console and have to pay a monthly subscription just to access all aspects of a game when you've already spent hundreds on the console and the game is really pushing things too far.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 3, 2018 9:37:15 GMT
A basic gaming PC doesn't cost as much as it used to, and it'd probably be (easily) on par or better than a console when it comes to performance. And if you take subscriptions into account, a console might not even be significantly cheaper. I like consoles for the convenience. I appreciate the cost and power argument, but I can just settle on my sofa, and mostly it just works.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 3, 2018 10:09:18 GMT
Ha, yes. Mostly I can't abide all the installing and messing about you have to do with PCs when things don't work and worrying about specifications and worrying about hackers. I know there are upsides but I'll take a console any day.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 3, 2018 10:15:57 GMT
I don't really like it. I much prefer making a significant one-time purchase over small regular payments for potentially eternity. I'll pay a subscription fee for a service if it can convince me that it's worth it, but I'm especially chagrined that the major console manufacturers all now want me to pay a subscription to use multiplayer services; a feature that used to be standard in the games where it applied. Having to pay extra to access multiplayer content, not that I play often, is a valid reason for me to get a game on PC rather than on console. I'm fortunate to be able to have both so able to make that choice, but if you only have a console and have to pay a monthly subscription just to access all aspects of a game when you've already spent hundreds on the console and the game is really pushing things too far. The problem is, as a JRPG fan, the bulk of the games I want are typically not available on PC.
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LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 868 Likes: 1,715
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 3, 2018 10:22:08 GMT
Ha, yes. Mostly I can't abide all the installing and messing about you have to do with PCs when things don't work and worrying about specifications and worrying about hackers. I know there are upsides but I'll take a console any day. Definitely a lot of pros for console gaming. Though, my PS4 needs to install things for every game now, I miss the days of insert disk, load game, grab snacks, bunker down. Now every time I turn on my console it wants an update or a patch. I tend to have my RPGs on PC (Bethesda ones largely because they need unofficial patches!) and action/adventure games on console. Tomb Raider on a big screen is epic. I play different genres differently. Action/adventure games I like to play on a big screen, with cushions and snacks. RPG's I like to read everything and take my time and I get more engrossed in the details on my laptop.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 3, 2018 10:34:10 GMT
Indeed, no issue with PC gamers enjoying PC games. I haven't owned a PC in more than a decade.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 4, 2018 1:50:47 GMT
I tend to have my RPGs on PC (Bethesda ones largely because they need unofficial patches!) and action/adventure games on console. Tomb Raider on a big screen is epic. I always have trouble visualising the big screens console people talk about. To match the size of the visual field of my PC's monitor I'd need a 75" TV or thereabouts.Well, unless I moved all the furniture around and put a chair right in front of the TV. How's your room set up?
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LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 868 Likes: 1,715
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 4, 2018 11:07:47 GMT
I tend to have my RPGs on PC (Bethesda ones largely because they need unofficial patches!) and action/adventure games on console. Tomb Raider on a big screen is epic. I always have trouble visualising the big screens console people talk about. To match the size of the visual field of my PC's monitor I'd need a 75" TV or thereabouts.Well, unless I moved all the furniture around and put a chair right in front of the TV. How's your room set up? My living room is actually really small, my sofa and tv are not quite 2m apart even though they are both against a wall. The screen is 55 inches.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 4, 2018 11:34:16 GMT
I always have trouble visualising the big screens console people talk about. To match the size of the visual field of my PC's monitor I'd need a 75" TV or thereabouts.Well, unless I moved all the furniture around and put a chair right in front of the TV. How's your room set up? From a field of view perspective, pretty similar (Laptop vs TV). Not that I can play games on my laptop.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 4, 2018 11:45:35 GMT
Is this the old theme you are using? Is it back online? I'm using "* Blue". Not sure if that's a legacy theme or not...
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 4, 2018 11:59:38 GMT
I tried using both types of blue after the original disappeared, bot had strange issues, I saw the formatting of my posts getting broken in weird ways. So I moved to one of the darker themes. Still that blue is more pleasant, and kind of a classic at this point... Maybe @howyummy will be able to advise which themes will be supported going forward, I confess I've lost track...
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