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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 21:11:21 GMT
Huh, I just looked it up and I never had that line of dialogue. I do think it was a mistake to try and combine the different approaches since they feel contradictory to each other. The Tranquil retain critical thinking as can be seen in the conversation with Avexis and yet Minaeve's conversation states that they are unable to take care of themselves. You know, since we're heading to the Tevinter Imperium in the next game and are unlikely to encounter Tranquil there, I really wish we could have had more opportunities to interact with Tranquils. Why would you expect not to see Tranquil there? Dorian tells us that they are. In fact, he says there are lots of Tranquil. I've no reason to believe he's lying about it. In the event of the contradiction between Minaeve and Giselle, I am tempted to side with Giselle. We know that a Tranquil will resist possession, which is why demons will usually seek a tree or something if they can't find a mage. It could be that the Tranquil merely focus on their tasks so intently they might forget to eat, like a crazy scientist enraptured in work, or something. No, the Tranquil isn't immune to the possession. Only the Seekers immune to the possession, perhaps, they're already possessed... we don't know anything about the ritual.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 21:14:09 GMT
As I said above, DAI seems to have tried to combine both approaches. We have conversations like that with Minaeve, and yet Avexis clearly shows opinions when talking to Mother Giselle when the latter asks if she would want to have Tranquility reversed, saying right now she would prefer not too since with the Breach she would be very vulnerable to demons(showing they recognize danger). Huh, I just looked it up and I never had that line of dialogue. I do think it was a mistake to try and combine the different approaches since they feel contradictory to each other. The Tranquil retain critical thinking as can be seen in the conversation with Avexis and yet Minaeve's conversation states that they are unable to take care of themselves. You know, since we're heading to the Tevinter Imperium in the next game and are unlikely to encounter Tranquil there, I really wish we could have had more opportunities to interact with Tranquils. While they can seem a bit contradictory, I can see a way where they make sense. For example we have people in the real world who have medical conditions that while they have those skills they still need help living their day to day life. I think Minaeve was meaning more something like that. After all she even says they can barely take care of themselves, meaning they can but they need help to move past the barely.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 21:17:49 GMT
As I said above, DAI seems to have tried to combine both approaches. We have conversations like that with Minaeve, and yet Avexis clearly shows opinions when talking to Mother Giselle when the latter asks if she would want to have Tranquility reversed, saying right now she would prefer not too since with the Breach she would be very vulnerable to demons(showing they recognize danger). Huh, I just looked it up and I never had that line of dialogue. I do think it was a mistake to try and combine the different approaches since they feel contradictory to each other. The Tranquil retain critical thinking as can be seen in the conversation with Avexis and yet Minaeve's conversation states that they are unable to take care of themselves. You know, since we're heading to the Tevinter Imperium in the next game and are unlikely to encounter Tranquil there, I really wish we could have had more opportunities to interact with Tranquils. Tevinter uses the Tranquility too. The Magisters for example – on their political opponents... But at least they don't say, this is a mercy.
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Post by NotN7 on Aug 3, 2018 21:22:18 GMT
Why would you expect not to see Tranquil there? Dorian tells us that they are. In fact, he says there are lots of Tranquil. I've no reason to believe he's lying about it.
In the event of the contradiction between Minaeve and Giselle, I am tempted to side with Giselle. We know that a Tranquil will resist possession, which is why demons will usually seek a tree or something if they can't find a mage. It could be that the Tranquil merely focus on their tasks so intently they might forget to eat, like a crazy scientist enraptured in work, or something. No, the Tranquil isn't immune to the possession. Only the Seekers immune to the possession, perhaps, they're already possessed... we don't know anything about the ritual. Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Cassandra say that the seekers were made tranquil then they got their powers? i.e possessed? can't remember the whole conversation.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 21:25:40 GMT
Why would you expect not to see Tranquil there? Dorian tells us that they are. In fact, he says there are lots of Tranquil. I've no reason to believe he's lying about it.
In the event of the contradiction between Minaeve and Giselle, I am tempted to side with Giselle. We know that a Tranquil will resist possession, which is why demons will usually seek a tree or something if they can't find a mage. It could be that the Tranquil merely focus on their tasks so intently they might forget to eat, like a crazy scientist enraptured in work, or something. No, the Tranquil isn't immune to the possession. Only the Seekers immune to the possession, perhaps, they're already possessed... we don't know anything about the ritual. Yes there are. We have multiple points in the series where this is expressed. That's the whole point of Tranquility.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 21:33:03 GMT
No, the Tranquil isn't immune to the possession. Only the Seekers immune to the possession, perhaps, they're already possessed... we don't know anything about the ritual. Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Cassandra say that the seekers were made tranquil then they got their powers? i.e possessed? can't remember the whole conversation. Everything and everyone able to be possessed, only the Seekers aren't and who already have 'inhabitant'. We know a Tranquil mage, who was possessed (Asunder), when was Tranquil. It needed for his work, so he took it... (probably, if he wouldn't a tranquil he wouldn't let it) And when he got his emotions back – A Seeker wanted to make him Tranquil again. (He would be happy to die instead – he killed by a mage.) WHY exactly, if the Tranquility + spirit touch made them immúne?
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 21:35:10 GMT
No, the Tranquil isn't immune to the possession. Only the Seekers immune to the possession, perhaps, they're already possessed... we don't know anything about the ritual. Yes there are. We have multiple points in the series where this is expressed. That's the whole point of Tranquility. Then why lambert wanted to make Pharamond tranquil again, if he was already immune? Just for fun? (I can imagine, ofc...)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 22:32:30 GMT
Yes there are. We have multiple points in the series where this is expressed. That's the whole point of Tranquility. Then why lambert wanted to make Pharamond tranquil again, if he was already immune? Just for fun? (I can imagine, ofc...) Two reasons: 1. Because Pharamond had been possessed already after reversing it and that attempt costed the lives of dozens of innocent civilians. 2. Because his Tranquillity was reversed and Lambert didn’t want it known that that could be done.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Aug 3, 2018 22:41:57 GMT
No, the Tranquil isn't immune to the possession. Only the Seekers immune to the possession, perhaps, they're already possessed... we don't know anything about the ritual. Yes there are. We have multiple points in the series where this is expressed. That's the whole point of Tranquility. Well, that's what the Chantry says anyway. In the games, it's normally used as a punishment for mages who cross the Templars.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 22:42:15 GMT
Then why lambert wanted to make Pharamond tranquil again, if he was already immune? Just for fun? (I can imagine, ofc...) Because his Tranquillity was reversed and Lambert didn’t want it known that that could be done. So. Just for fun.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 22:44:07 GMT
Because his Tranquillity was reversed and Lambert didn’t want it known that that could be done. So. Just for fun. No. As I edited in Pharamond was seen as a genuine danger. He was in a compromised state after reversing it which left him extremely vulnerable to possession. After all he had already been possessed once and allowed demons through which resulted in the deaths of dozens of innocent civilians. He just had an ulterior motive as well.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 22:46:10 GMT
No. As I edited in Pharamond was seen as a genuine danger. He was in a compromised state after reversing it which left him extremely vulnerable to possession. After all he had already been possessed once and allowed demons through which resulted in the deaths of dozens of innocent civilians. He just had an ulterior motive as well. So: then not the Tranquility makes the Seekers immune... As I said: we don't know anything about the ritual. (But not, Pharamond was not more dangerous than anyone else. The Seekers just evil – Just like the Divine, who approved it, and like the Rite of Tranquility.)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 22:46:24 GMT
Yes there are. We have multiple points in the series where this is expressed. That's the whole point of Tranquility. Well, that's what the Chantry says anyway. In the games, it's normally used as a punishment for mages who cross the Templars. Not just the Chantry but the lore in general. Plus the only time we ever see it abused in the games is in DA2 where the writers specifically made both sides as bad as possible. Even in that game we see and hear it being used for its benign purpose, like the Codex entry about the girl I've talked about before.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 22:48:37 GMT
Well, that's what the Chantry says anyway. In the games, it's normally used as a punishment for mages who cross the Templars. Not just the Chantry but the lore in general. Plus the only time we ever see it abused in the games is in DA2 where the writers specifically made both sides as bad as possible. Even in that game we see and hear it being used for its benign purpose, like the Codex entry about the girl I've talked about before. "Benign purpose"... of course. Anders has the benign purpose...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 22:51:36 GMT
No. As I edited in Pharamond was seen as a genuine danger. He was in a compromised state after reversing it which left him extremely vulnerable to possession. After all he had already been possessed once and allowed demons through which resulted in the deaths of dozens of innocent civilians. He just had an ulterior motive as well. So: then not the Tranquility makes the Seekers immune... (But not, Pharamond was not more dangerous than anyone else. The Seeker was just evil, like the Rite of Tranquility.) The Tranquility is part of it, yes. Pharamond discovered that having a spirit touch a Tranquil's mind will restore them, but in his case he used a demon he brought through the thin Veil there. He only became possessed when the demon was on our side of the Fade and let the demon in. For demons in the Fade, they don't see the Tranquil because they are disconnected thus immune. Pharamond was more dangerous than most mages because he was emotionally unbalanced after having it reversed, which is like setting off a flare for demons who feed off that. Not saying I support Lambert, but he did have a valid motive for wanting Pharamond made Tranquil again rather than just his ulterior motive. After all after what Pharamond did he would have normally gotten the death penalty. I disagree that the Rite of Tranquilty is inherently evil just like I don't think magic is. Both are tools which can be used for good or evil.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 22:53:45 GMT
Not just the Chantry but the lore in general. Plus the only time we ever see it abused in the games is in DA2 where the writers specifically made both sides as bad as possible. Even in that game we see and hear it being used for its benign purpose, like the Codex entry about the girl I've talked about before. "Benign purpose"... of course. Anders has the benign purpose... By the definition of the term benign, no Anders did not have a benign purpose at all. Benign is an antonym to his purpose. But that post had nothing to do with Anders so strop dragging him into everything to avoid addressing the actual posts.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 22:55:04 GMT
So: then not the Tranquility makes the Seekers immune... (But not, Pharamond was not more dangerous than anyone else. The Seeker was just evil, like the Rite of Tranquility.) The Tranquility is part of it, yes. Pharamond discovered that having a spirit touch a Tranquil's mind will restore them, but in his case he used a demon he brought through the thin Veil there. He only became possessed when the demon was on our side of the Fade and let the demon in. For demons in the Fade, they don't see the Tranquil because they are disconnected thus immune. Pharamond was more dangerous than most mages because he was emotionally unbalanced after having it reversed, which is like setting off a flare for demons who feed off that. Not saying I support Lambert, but he did have a valid motive for wanting Pharamond made Tranquil again rather than just his ulterior motive. After all after what Pharamond did he would have normally gotten the death penalty. I disagree that the Rite of Tranquilty is inherently evil just like I don't think magic is. Both are tools which can be used for good or evil.So, you accept to destroy innocents if you have a good and lawful purpose?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 22:56:21 GMT
The Tranquility is part of it, yes. Pharamond discovered that having a spirit touch a Tranquil's mind will restore them, but in his case he used a demon he brought through the thin Veil there. He only became possessed when the demon was on our side of the Fade and let the demon in. For demons in the Fade, they don't see the Tranquil because they are disconnected thus immune.
Pharamond was more dangerous than most mages because he was emotionally unbalanced after having it reversed, which is like setting off a flare for demons who feed off that. Not saying I support Lambert, but he did have a valid motive for wanting Pharamond made Tranquil again rather than just his ulterior motive. After all after what Pharamond did he would have normally gotten the death penalty. I disagree that the Rite of Tranquilty is inherently evil just like I don't think magic is. Both are tools which can be used for good or evil.So, you accept to destroy innocents if you have a good and lawful purpose? No. That is an example of a tool being used evilly.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 22:58:02 GMT
So, you accept to destroy innocents if you have a good and lawful purpose? No. That is an example of a tool being used evilly. So, the Tranquility's evil. And the Divine's evil. (I didn't speak about Kirkwall – I spoke about EVERY innocent mage who made Tranquil. Avexis for example...)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 23:02:00 GMT
No. That is an example of a tool being used evilly. So, the Tranquility's evil. And the Divine's evil. No, Tranquility can be used evilly. That doesn't make it evil. It can also be used for good, like saving a child from a living hell she was living before it happened. Again, your logic swings both ways. If you think that something that can be used evilly makes the thing itself evil, then you have to accept that magic is evil since it has been used evilly just as many if not more times than the Rite of Tranquility has. And if you think that using something that is evil makes the people using it evil, then by your own argument you have to accept that mages are evil. See the problem with this line of thinking?
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Post by shechinah on Aug 3, 2018 23:03:11 GMT
Why would you expect not to see Tranquil there? Dorian tells us that they are. In fact, he says there are lots of Tranquil. I've no reason to believe he's lying about it. Wauw, I'd completely forgotten about that conversation. My bad. On the upside, now I'm really excited to meet Tranquils in the Imperium! It could be that the Tranquil merely focus on their tasks so intently they might forget to eat, like a crazy scientist enraptured in work, or something Huh, that wouldn't be too bad an explanation. I'd accept that. I could certainly relate to that.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 3, 2018 23:03:39 GMT
So, the Tranquility's evil. And the Divine's evil. No, Tranquility can be used evilly. That doesn't make it evil. It can also be used for good, like saving a child from a living hell she was living before it happened. Again, your logic swings both ways. If you think that something that can be used evilly makes the thing itself evil, then you have to accept that magic is evil since it has been used evilly just as many if not more times than the Rite of Tranquility has. And if you think that using something that is evil makes the people using it evil, then by your own argument you have to accept that mages are evil. See the problem with this line of thinking? I didn't speak about Kirkwall – I spoke about EVERY innocent mage who made Tranquil. Avexis for example... Your explanation is hypocritical. The living hell is the Tranquility itself. Pharamond wanted to die, just as Karl.
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Post by shechinah on Aug 3, 2018 23:08:15 GMT
I can easily see some mages wanting to be made Tranquil because they find it too hard to live with demons trying to take possession of them. This is especially if they suffer from problems that might make them more vulnerable to demons or their influence. They don't want to die and they feel they can live a more peaceful and content life as Tranquils.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 23:09:07 GMT
No, Tranquility can be used evilly. That doesn't make it evil. It can also be used for good, like saving a child from a living hell she was living before it happened. Again, your logic swings both ways. If you think that something that can be used evilly makes the thing itself evil, then you have to accept that magic is evil since it has been used evilly just as many if not more times than the Rite of Tranquility has. And if you think that using something that is evil makes the people using it evil, then by your own argument you have to accept that mages are evil. See the problem with this line of thinking? I didn't speak about Kirkwall – I spoke about EVERY innocent mage who made Tranquil. Avexis for example... The living hell is the Tranquility itself. Pharamond wanted to die, just as Karl. Do we know Avexis didn't choose it? It's never stated anywhere whether it was willingly or not. Likewise with the vast majority of Tranquil we see. Pharamond wanted to die after the condition reversing it the way he did left him in. You are right about Karl saying that, but there are also mages where becoming Tranquil wasn't hell but salvation from it. Again, can be used for good or evil.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2018 23:10:17 GMT
I can easily see some mages wanting to be made Tranquil because they find it too hard to live with demons trying to take possession of them. This is especially if they suffer from problems that might make them more vulnerable to demons or their influence. They don't want to die and they feel they can live a more peaceful and content life as Tranquils. Yep. For example the story of the girl I'm talking about: Orana was brought to the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall at the age of five. Her mentors had high hopes for the child, seeing her talent for magic. Unfortunately, the poor child was plagued by nightmares that only worsened after her move to the Gallows. Orana became afraid of falling asleep. She would lie stiffly in bed, her eyes wide open. Without sleep, she grew thin and wan, and her studies began to suffer.
Orana began to experience waking dreams. Shadows flitted in corners, and she swore she heard voices calling her name. She knew demons could take advantage of her vulnerable state, and at the tender age of eleven, she requested to be made Tranquil. The first enchanter complied.
With her connection to the Fade severed, Orana was again able to sleep. Her health returned, and she was at peace with her decision. She continued her education at the Circle and excelled in enchanting and runecrafting.
Orana saw the Rite of Tranquility as a gift, although many mocked her for this view. Later in life, she created an amulet to remind her of the Rite. She named it Tranquility. The Tranquility Amulet soothes the mind and imparts a general sense of well-being to its wearer. —From Codex entry: Tranquility
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