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Post by alanc9 on Oct 19, 2019 22:23:01 GMT
The Arks aren't remarkably large as spacecraft go. They're merely dreadnought-sized. And since private concerns on Earth are operating ships as large as the largest warships today, there's nothing particularly hard to swallow about the AI being able to build five dreadnought-sized vessels.
The Nexus is another matter, though.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 19, 2019 22:37:03 GMT
I would be curious when the benefactor decided to help Garson, and how much of the project was built before the benefactor showed up.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 19, 2019 22:50:42 GMT
Again, the ODSY Drives aren't lore breaking. Reapers have drives that can do what they do, and more notably Collector ships have drives with the same capabilities. Now how the AI got their hands on the plans to create the ODSY Drives is a mystery certainly, and one I suspect could be delved into when investigating the truth behind the venture, but they aren't lore breaking. As for more practical and cooler, I'd have to disagree with that on both fronts when it comes to stellar engines. Sure, astronomy nuts like us know about it, but most fans aren't that so that would receive a lot more complaints than the ODSY Drives did. It also opens up it's own Pandora's Box of issues when looking back on the Shepard Trilogy, since technology like that would have been very useful in defending against the Reapers. That's exactly the problem, the Reapers (and their thralls) had them not the races of the galaxy. The introduction the ODSY drives, to a non-military and privately funded colonization effort no less, while the best and brightest back home had no means of doing the same is lore-breaking. You say the use of astrological-engineering would cause issues, but what about these magical drives that violate all known laws of mass effect technology? Slowly moving a star around isn't going to do anything to help in the war effort, but drives that never need discharging? That have effectively unlimited range? Those would have massively impacted the war effort. Military? Heck it would have spawned a whole new wave of colonization. Think about it, the big conflict between humans and batarians is because they're squabbling over the same region of space to settle. The quarians are a migrant fleet because the Council won't let them settle on any of the dextro worlds in their space. Colonies are limited to densely settled regions clustered around relays. Heck in all probability, that's baked into the Reaper trap: mass effect technology limits your range, so the races are reliant on the relay network to go any significant distance, and are tethered to those relays. This makes it easy to find and harvest organics each cycle. The ODSY drive renders such a trap pointless. With it, a colony ship can go ANYWHERE, and settle whatever planet suits their fancy. Or hang out in space for a few centuries until the Reapers go away. Congrats Andromeda Initiative, you could have rendered the entire Reaper War pointless, if only the ODSY drives were used for something other than an eccentric billionaire's pope dream.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 19, 2019 22:54:47 GMT
Yes, because they would have access to Mass Effect technology not current, real-world tech. It would take us 40,000 to 50,000 years to send a ship to Alpha Centari using our current means, but your average civilian ship in Mass Effect can do the same trip in a few hours. If we can move our own Sun in the real world, which is way more massive than a simple red dwarf, then how much easier would it be for a space age civilization with access to mass altering capabilities? Private mining companies can go harvest ezo from pulars with just a handful of individuals so assuming the Initiative could set up a Shkadov thruster isn't really stretching things. Certainly no where close to that same group somehow building their own version of the Citadel and their own fleet super-dreadnought sized ARK ships from scratch in five years; while also inventing the ODSY drives. And your first part of the post is all supposition. We shouldn't concern ourselves with a massive plot hole and/or lore recton because its a mystery? Sounds like a copout on the part of BioWare's writers more likely. Then how come the galaxy didn't do it? If they never did but the AI did, there would be this exact same conversation. Guaranteed. Except again, it is not a lore retcon. The technology exists. The only question is how did they get it? That's not a plot hole or copout unless they never address it. And considering they have stated after MEA came out that the thing with the Benefactor is not only not done but a big part of the mega story of the series that's highly unlikely. But fine, if you don't want to discuss it then there is no real point continuing to discuss with you since it's just going to be a circular argument. It exists, but is only in the hands of godlike space-Cthulhu. It's been established that once ftl drives and the relay network were discovered, the races pretty much gave up on looking for other methods of travel.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 19, 2019 22:58:06 GMT
Then how come the galaxy didn't do it? If they never did but the AI did, there would be this exact same conversation. Guaranteed. Except again, it is not a lore retcon. The technology exists. The only question is how did they get it? That's not a plot hole or copout unless they never address it. And considering they have stated after MEA came out that the thing with the Benefactor is not only not done but a big part of the mega story of the series that's highly unlikely. But fine, if you don't want to discuss it then there is no real point continuing to discuss with you since it's just going to be a circular argument. It exists, but is only in the hands of godlike space-Cthulhu. It's been established that once ftl drives and the relay network were discovered, the races pretty much gave up on looking for other methods of travel. Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 23:02:04 GMT
I would be curious when the benefactor decided to help Garson, and how much of the project was built before the benefactor showed up. The "secret message" says: "For years, there was a silent partner involved with the Initiative. The truth is I was running out of money. Then a benefactor stepped in. I didn't ask questions. I never met him face to face. That was a mistake. I lied to everyone. Something big spooked them in the Milky Way, and now they're moving 100,000 of us to Andromeda. I hope it's all for the good, but I have my doubts. And now I think they're going to remove me."
There's a few different things that might be read into this message:
1) Is the "silent partner" the same individual as "the benefactor." They way this is worded, I think it's possible that they are two different people. That it was her silent partner who was the initial contact for the benefactor.
2) Since Jien never met the benefactor, she has no idea what species the benefactor is or where he/she/it originates.
3) Was Jien's initial intention to go to Andromeda... or was she intended to explore within the Milky Way... and then, only after the Benefactor became spooked, the destination was changed to be the Andromeda Galaxy. Again, the way this is worded, I think it is a possibility that the Benefactor changed the destination.
4) Is what spooked the benefactor, the Reapers... or something else?... something worse that has not yet been revealed to us.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 19, 2019 23:12:09 GMT
The issue with that is that Garson should have known she wouldn't have enough credits to finish the project before starting it. It was dumb luck that the benefactor stepped in to loan her the coin.
Another thing is why did the Nexus leave the galaxy only half built? No one at the time knew when the reapers were going to show up.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 23:37:04 GMT
The issue with that is that Garson should have known she wouldn't have enough credits to finish the project before starting it. It was dumb luck that the benefactor stepped in to loan her the coin. Another thing is why did the Nexus leave the galaxy only half built? No one at the time knew when the reapers were going to show up. It's ridiculous to expect Garson to have known absolutely she would run out of money considering the vast number of construction projects here on earth that run into overruns and run out of money before they are completed.
Are we even sure that what the Benefactor provided was coin... They might have just as easily provided technology that sped up the development process of the ODSY drive. They may not even be from a species that we know exist... yet. People here keep bringing up that 99% of the Milky Way is unexplored... Who says that it is us that has go out to find new species... i.e. isn't also possible that they found us and decided to send 100,000 of us to Andromeda for their own purposes. Whose to say that entire species (since it is unknown) hasn't transplanted itself to Andromeda as well?
The video Alec watches while conversing with the Benefactor, shows many different Milky Way species... what if the origin of the scrambling isn't tech... but a species that can shape shift to appear like any species we already know.
Isn't it possible that, in Garson, they found a person trying to find a way to explore farther in the Milky Way but was running out of money... and then started supporting that project and speeding it up... lying to her in effect... and then eventually took advantage of her desperation to redirect the Initiative.
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Post by michaelm on Oct 19, 2019 23:55:11 GMT
Some maths for you all: Andromeda galaxy's distance from Earth is approximately 780 kiloparsecs which is 780 000 parsecs. One parsec is approximately 31 trillion kilometres (31×10 12 km), so the distance is 780 000×31×10 12 km = 24 180 000×1012 km. It took Andromeda Initiative 634 years to travel from the Milky Way galaxy to the Andromeda galaxy, so the distance they covered yearly was 24 180 000×10 12 km÷634 a= 38 139×1012 km/a. That means the arks covered daily the distance of 38 139×10 12 km÷365 d = 104×1012 km/d.
A light year is the distance light travels in a year, 9.46×10 12 km. So an ark traveled with speed that was 104×10 12 km÷9.46×10 12 km= 11 times what light travels in a year, daily.Now to compare: The diameter of the Milky Way is estimated to be 150 000 - 200 000 light years, but for our purposes let's split the difference and go with 175 000 light years, so 175 000×9.46×10 12 km = 1 655 500×1012 km. The Andromeda galaxy is even bigger with a diameter of 220 000 light years, so 220 000×9.46×10 12 km = 2 081 200×1012 km. And if we assume for our exercise that it's shaped like circle, that makes its circumference C=πd= 3.14×220 000 ly= 690 800 ly, which 6 534 968×1012 km. With the speed AI's vessels are able travel, it would take them 2 081 200×10 12 km ÷ 104×10 12 km/d = 20 012 days (that is almost 55 years!) to travel from one end to the other, and doesn't even account for how much the Scourge may force them to occasionally backtrack or zigzag. Do also remember that the devs have told us that the events in ME:A take place during a three month period, so the maximum distance we can cover is 90 d×104×10 12 km/d = 9 360×1012 km. That's 9360×10 12 km÷2 081 200×10 12 km= 0.0045, which is 0.45 percent of Andromeda's diameter. And even that would mean a one-way trip for Ryder and their friends. Remember also that the events of the game take place in Heleus cluster which contains multiple systems. If you want to do comparisons, the diameter of the Solar system is approximately 287 billion kilometres, which is 0.287×1012 km when written like the other numbers here. Now, the Heleus cluster contains 38 systems (that we know of!), which we will scan thoroughly, so that means at least 76 trips from one end of a system's diameter to the other and back, so Ryder would supposedly have to fly at least the distance of 76×0.287×10 12 km = 22 × 1012 km to check the planets for resources. (Remember also that systems in Heleus could be much larger than our Solar system!) However, the planets aren't usually neatly situated in a straight line nor easily reached in their systems due to the Scourge. When one factors into this also time Ryder spends planetside, multiple return trips to habitable planets, FTL being unavalaible when getting close asteroid belts and the Scourge, and having to map new systems, I find it extremely unlikely that Ryder would have had the time or resources to go searching for new star clusters - they didn't even have the time to fully map Heleus! *** The numbers used here for counting have been taken from the English Wikipedia, for those interested. The time it takes literally does not matter. The longer it takes, the longer Ryder and crew travel in cryo and farther advanced the development of the Nexus and the colonies in the Heleus gets. They become more populated, with more cities, etc. but Ryder and crew in cryo do not age while in cryo. Ryder is already 656 years old, but hasn't aged beyond 22 so far. Once a Mass Effect Relay is set up on the Nexus and Ryder and company bring the smaller version to other point locations, then those points become connected with instantaneous travel the same as in the Milky Way. If it takes 100 years or another 600 years or another 10,000 for Ryder and Company to set up a relay network, it still wouldn't matter. The pathfinder and crew would not age whule traveling in cryo. The changes we would see when dealing with, say, the Nexus or Eos, is that we'd be talking with descendants of those people we met in ME:A and the technology evident would, perhaps, change with the times... as new technologies are invented by the AI. Or while the Tempest crew is in cryo the Khett exalt the entire initiative.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 0:05:18 GMT
The time it takes literally does not matter. The longer it takes, the longer Ryder and crew travel in cryo and farther advanced the development of the Nexus and the colonies in the Heleus gets. They become more populated, with more cities, etc. but Ryder and crew in cryo do not age while in cryo. Ryder is already 656 years old, but hasn't aged beyond 22 so far. Once a Mass Effect Relay is set up on the Nexus and Ryder and company bring the smaller version to other point locations, then those points become connected with instantaneous travel the same as in the Milky Way. If it takes 100 years or another 600 years or another 10,000 for Ryder and Company to set up a relay network, it still wouldn't matter. The pathfinder and crew would not age whule traveling in cryo. The changes we would see when dealing with, say, the Nexus or Eos, is that we'd be talking with descendants of those people we met in ME:A and the technology evident would, perhaps, change with the times... as new technologies are invented by the AI. Or while the Tempest crew is in cryo the Khett exalt the entire initiative. I doubt Bioware would write it that way... but we'll just have to wait to see what they write for the next ME game.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 20, 2019 1:07:43 GMT
It exists, but is only in the hands of godlike space-Cthulhu. It's been established that once ftl drives and the relay network were discovered, the races pretty much gave up on looking for other methods of travel. Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things. The Benefactor didn't get involved until the AI was already years in development. Again why would the Andromeda Initiative be going on if they had no way to actually reach Andromeda?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 1:33:55 GMT
Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things. The Benefactor didn't get involved until the AI was already years in development. Again why would the Andromeda Initiative be going on if they had no way to actually reach Andromeda? What proof do you have that their intended destination was Andromeda BEFORE the Benefactor became involved?... and don't say the name because it could have been named or renamed at any time and Garson, in her secret message, just refers to as the Initiative, not the Andromeda Initiative.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 20, 2019 1:55:11 GMT
Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things. The Benefactor didn't get involved until the AI was already years in development. Again why would the Andromeda Initiative be going on if they had no way to actually reach Andromeda? It’s never said at what stage the Benefactor became involved. All that said is that Jien Garson was running out of funding while trying to develop the Initiative when the Benefactor contacted her. For all we know part of her struggles was developing a way to get to Andromeda. It’s hardly the first time that’s happened with an endeavor. But then after they started to help the answer arrived.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 20, 2019 16:49:52 GMT
This conversation has really gone off the rails. The reason we stayed in heleus was the plot but it made sense to do so. Imo of course.
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Post by ahglock on Oct 20, 2019 19:26:01 GMT
It exists, but is only in the hands of godlike space-Cthulhu. It's been established that once ftl drives and the relay network were discovered, the races pretty much gave up on looking for other methods of travel. Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things. I'd be shocked to find out that bioware knows the answer to that. They picked mysterious benefactor because they didn't want to come up with a story for how this all happened. How did we get the magic space drive, its a mystery from mystery people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 19:59:23 GMT
Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things. I'd be shocked to find out that bioware knows the answer to that. They picked mysterious benefactor because they didn't want to come up with a story for how this all happened. How did we get the magic space drive, its a mystery from mystery people. ... or could it be linked to the "Alien Ghost Ship" Cerberus Daily News items that Hanako Ikezawa linked to on the other thread? One of the story mentions that the virtual aliens offered technical knowledge beyond anything we had in exchange for being supplied power for their ship. That was in 2185.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 20, 2019 20:19:41 GMT
Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things. I'd be shocked to find out that bioware knows the answer to that. They picked mysterious benefactor because they didn't want to come up with a story for how this all happened. How did we get the magic space drive, its a mystery from mystery people. They did come up with a story. Just not one you liked.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 21, 2019 13:05:14 GMT
I think there is ample reason for not exploring outside But it is not prohibitive. Meaning I could, if I felt like it, but I am unable to.
Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things. " A good question. For another time" - Maz Kanata, Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens Meaning I don't expect Bioware to answer that, ever. If they haven't forgotten about the question itself, already.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 13:36:36 GMT
I think there is ample reason for not exploring outside But it is not prohibitive. Meaning I could, if I felt like it, but I am unable to.
Which is why as I’m said I’m very curious to see how the Benefactor got their hands on it as well as why they didn’t share this discovery with the galaxy at large among other things. " A good question. For another time" - Maz Kanata, Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens Meaning I don't expect Bioware to answer that, ever. If they haven't forgotten about the question itself, already. (OK, Il'l break down and respond to this, but I'm not going to be drug into a further argument, OK?) I don't recall anywhere in the game where they say that the Tempest, Hyperion, or Nexus could not have actually traveled outside the Heleus Cluster. It is stated clearly in the game that they chose to go to that cluster BECAUSE that was where they saw a concentration of golden worlds. The Nexus arrived first and stayed within the cluster waiting for the arks to arrive. Had it left and an ark arrived, they would have been putting that ark in jeopardy by virtue of them not being where they were supposed to be. One also has to consider that construction on it still needed to be finsihed and 2) it was damaged by the scourge.
The Initiative's original plan appears to have been that each ark would go directly to its designated golden world and then report to the Nexus. If the golden worlds had panned out, they probably would have just radioed Nexus and Nexus would have sent out a colony block. The plan also appears to be that, if the golden world did not pan out, the Pathfinder would be responsible for finding another world and probably had the absolute authority at that time to decide whether the ark would proceed to the Nexus before discovering that world or just go looking for another world. However, things were even worse for Hyperion than just their golden world not being viable. The ship was also damaged by the scourage and their original pathfinder was dead. It seems logical then that Captain Dunn would make the choice to go to the Nexus... with Ryder not being fully enough recovered to make the Pathfinder's choice on his/her own.
Regardless, for Ryder to just go off to another cluster (one that was not seen as being as viable as Heleus) makes no sense... but nothing in the game says that the ships were not capable of going to another cluster. So, I really don't know what you're trying to get at with this. As you say, all games have map boundaries. In the OT the boundary was the galaxy. In Andromeda, they have decided to explore the galaxy cluster by cluster... so the map boundary in each game was likely going to be a single cluster... or maybe they planned to make the next game map bigger... say, two or three clusters. We don't know.
In regards to the OT... Why couldn't we just decide to travel into dark space? Why couldn't the Reapers enter the galaxy from dark space just anywhere? Why was that boundary so prohibitive?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 21, 2019 14:39:19 GMT
(OK, Il'l break down and respond to this, but I'm not going to be drug into a further argument, OK?) I don't recall anywhere in the game where they say that the Tempest, Hyperion, or Nexus could not have actually traveled outside the Heleus Cluster. It is stated clearly in the game that they chose to go to that cluster BECAUSE that was where they saw a concentration of golden worlds. The Nexus arrived first and stayed within the cluster waiting for the arks to arrive. Had it left and an ark arrived, they would have been putting that ark in jeopardy by virtue of them not being where they were supposed to be. One also has to consider that construction on it still needed to be finsihed and 2) it was damaged by the scourge.
The Initiative's original plan appears to have been that each ark would go directly to its designated golden world and then report to the Nexus. If the golden worlds had panned out, they probably would have just radioed Nexus and Nexus would have sent out a colony block. The plan also appears to be that, if the golden world did not pan out, the Pathfinder would be responsible for finding another world and probably had the absolute authority at that time to decide whether the ark would proceed to the Nexus before discovering that world or just go looking for another world. However, things were even worse for Hyperion than just their golden world not being viable. The ship was also damaged by the scourage and their original pathfinder was dead. It seems logical then that Captain Dunn would make the choice to go to the Nexus... with Ryder not being fully enough recovered to make the Pathfinder's choice on his/her own.
Regardless, for Ryder to just go off to another cluster (one that was not seen as being as viable as Heleus) makes no sense... but nothing in the game says that the ships were not capable of going to another cluster. So, I really don't know what you're trying to get at with this. As you say, all games have map boundaries. In the OT the boundary was the galaxy. In Andromeda, they have decided to explore the galaxy cluster by cluster... so the map boundary in each game was likely going to be a single cluster... or maybe they planned to make the next game map bigger... say, two or three clusters. We don't know. But none of these are reasons why I can't take two days, as Hanako at least argues, to just pop in and out of the next cluster. If the entire premise is "Ryder didn't think about it", then it doesn't respect my choice as a player, if the argument is Bioware didn't develop the content, then the game is broken. In regards to the OT... Why couldn't we just decide to travel into dark space? Why couldn't the Reapers enter the galaxy from dark space just anywhere? Why was that boundary so prohibitive? Because the time it would take us to travel to a cluster that isn't connected to a relay would take an exorbitant amount of time, that would conclude in a game over, before we even made it to the next cluster, let alone dark space. The Reapers could indeed enter the galaxy from just about anywhere, but as established by ME3, the Citadel proved to be an asset of vital strategic importance, as it allowed the congregation of the council and non council races, the forming of alliances and ultimately the defeat of the Reapers. Not that it was an easy feat because of that, but because without it, it would have been impossible. The fact that once the Reapers got to the first relay available to them, didn't make a bee line to the Citadel to prevent that, though, is retarded.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 14:53:05 GMT
(OK, Il'l break down and respond to this, but I'm not going to be drug into a further argument, OK?) I don't recall anywhere in the game where they say that the Tempest, Hyperion, or Nexus could not have actually traveled outside the Heleus Cluster. It is stated clearly in the game that they chose to go to that cluster BECAUSE that was where they saw a concentration of golden worlds. The Nexus arrived first and stayed within the cluster waiting for the arks to arrive. Had it left and an ark arrived, they would have been putting that ark in jeopardy by virtue of them not being where they were supposed to be. One also has to consider that construction on it still needed to be finsihed and 2) it was damaged by the scourge.
The Initiative's original plan appears to have been that each ark would go directly to its designated golden world and then report to the Nexus. If the golden worlds had panned out, they probably would have just radioed Nexus and Nexus would have sent out a colony block. The plan also appears to be that, if the golden world did not pan out, the Pathfinder would be responsible for finding another world and probably had the absolute authority at that time to decide whether the ark would proceed to the Nexus before discovering that world or just go looking for another world. However, things were even worse for Hyperion than just their golden world not being viable. The ship was also damaged by the scourage and their original pathfinder was dead. It seems logical then that Captain Dunn would make the choice to go to the Nexus... with Ryder not being fully enough recovered to make the Pathfinder's choice on his/her own.
Regardless, for Ryder to just go off to another cluster (one that was not seen as being as viable as Heleus) makes no sense... but nothing in the game says that the ships were not capable of going to another cluster. So, I really don't know what you're trying to get at with this. As you say, all games have map boundaries. In the OT the boundary was the galaxy. In Andromeda, they have decided to explore the galaxy cluster by cluster... so the map boundary in each game was likely going to be a single cluster... or maybe they planned to make the next game map bigger... say, two or three clusters. We don't know. But none of these are reasons why I can't take two days, as Hanako at least argues, to just pop in and out of the next cluster. If the entire premise is "Ryder didn't think about it", then it doesn't respect my choice as a player, if the argument is Bioware didn't develop the content, then the game is broken. In regards to the OT... Why couldn't we just decide to travel into dark space? Why couldn't the Reapers enter the galaxy from dark space just anywhere? Why was that boundary so prohibitive? Because the time it would take us to travel to a cluster that isn't connected to a relay would take an exorbitant amount of time, that would conclude in a game over, before we even made it to the next cluster, let alone dark space. The Reapers could indeed enter the galaxy from just about anywhere, but as established by ME3, the Citadel proved to be an asset of vital strategic importance, as it allowed the congregation of the council and non council races, the forming of alliances and ultimately the defeat of the Reapers. Not that it was an easy feat because of that, but because without it, it would have been impossible. The fact that once the Reapers got to the first relay available to them, didn't make a bee line to the Citadel to prevent that, though, is retarded. What is "next" to darkspace. You're assuming that "darkspace" is always the same time and distance away from wherever you're at in the galaxy... but that's not the case. What was the distance to "darkspace" from Alpha Relay as opposed to any outlying system over the sphere of the entire galaxy... or does it even permeate into the galaxy. Darkspace was never a defined place. It would not necessarily take an exhorbitent time to reach it from different points within the galaxy because some of those points could be right next door to darkspace. Same with Ryder and crew. At any time they are near the cluster's edge, they could leave that edge and see what is beyond it. There are no walls in space. The game map is just the game map. Nothing in the game says that Ryder could not leave the cluster, but his work was to settle the worlds within that cluster. He stayed within the cluster because he was just doing his job. You go to work. Nothing says you can't drive off to an adjacent city and play hookie for however long you want... but you don't because you're doing your job.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 21, 2019 15:18:18 GMT
What is "next" to darkspace. You're assuming that "darkspace" is always the same time and distance away from wherever you're at in the galaxy... but that's not the case. What was the distance to "darkspace" from Alpha Relay as opposed to any outlying system over the sphere of the entire galaxy... or does it even permeate into the galaxy. Darkspace was never a defined place. It would not necessarily take an exhorbitent time to reach it from different points within the galaxy because some of those points could be right next door to darkspace. If the Reapers are in dark space and dark space is, like, a three minute flight from, say, the Gemini cluster, or any amount of time that is inconsequential, then we would have had the Reapers entering the Milky Way galaxy at the very start of ME2. It is, therefore, safe to assume that, as chronicled by the events of the trilogy, dark space is at the very least 3 years away, using a Reaper's drive core. Seeing how long it takes to reach the MW, compared to a whatever drive is commercially available in the Milky Way, it would take the fastest alliance vessel twice that time, at 15 ly/day compared to the Reapers' 30 ly/day, making it not only unlikely, but for most humans an unfeasible journey into the unknown. At least, without cryo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 16:23:52 GMT
What is "next" to darkspace. You're assuming that "darkspace" is always the same time and distance away from wherever you're at in the galaxy... but that's not the case. What was the distance to "darkspace" from Alpha Relay as opposed to any outlying system over the sphere of the entire galaxy... or does it even permeate into the galaxy. Darkspace was never a defined place. It would not necessarily take an exhorbitent time to reach it from different points within the galaxy because some of those points could be right next door to darkspace. If the Reapers are in dark space and dark space is, like, a three minute flight from, say, the Gemini cluster, or any amount of time that is inconsequential, then we would have had the Reapers entering the Milky Way galaxy at the very start of ME2. It is, therefore, safe to assume that, as chronicled by the events of the trilogy, dark space is at the very least 3 years away, using a Reaper's drive core. Seeing how long it takes to reach the MW, compared to a whatever drive is commercially available in the Milky Way, it would take the fastest alliance vessel twice that time, at 15 ly/day compared to the Reapers' 30 ly/day, making it not only unlikely, but for most humans an unfeasible journey into the unknown. At least, without cryo. Definition of Dark Space per the Mass Effect Wiki: "Dark space (or intergalactic space) is the name of the physical space between galaxies in the same way as interstellar space is the space between stars within a galaxy. Dark space is completely dark, as it contains little to no stars and makes up almost the entire volume of the universe, where galaxies are only small islands of light. The distance between two neighboring galaxies is in the order of several million light-years, while the diameter of the Milky Way's galactic disc is only about 100,000 light-years."
So, your saying that it's at least 3 years away from ANY edge of the Milky Way galaxy? What is then the space between galactic space and dark space?
Definition of Dark Sapce per Merriam-Webster: " any of several regions or layers in the visible-glow discharge of a gas-filled cold-cathode electron tube that remain nonluminous or exhibit low light intensity until the ions in such spaces acquire sufficient energy to excite fluorescence in the tube gas"
So, I ask again - Where is dark space? Mass Effect's answer is that it is everywhere outside the galaxy. If I'm at any edge of the galaxy, I am immediately adjacent to dark space. Since the galaxy is not a "solid" or confined space with vase expanses of scientifically dark space between visible clusters, where precisely are the galactic edges?
This is a great flaw in the Mass Effect lore, IMO... and it was there from the beginning. There are no walls or roads or actual corridors in space.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 21, 2019 17:02:42 GMT
Definition of Dark Space per the Mass Effect Wiki: "Dark space (or intergalactic space) is the name of the physical space between galaxies in the same way as interstellar space is the space between stars within a galaxy. Dark space is completely dark, as it contains little to no stars and makes up almost the entire volume of the universe, where galaxies are only small islands of light. The distance between two neighboring galaxies is in the order of several million light-years, while the diameter of the Milky Way's galactic disc is only about 100,000 light-years." So it's an emptiness. A void. Full of nothing and nothing to do. I guess they could have made an empty map, with nothing to do that we can't even circle around, but that's not very exciting. And there's no point to it. It could have a point, had there been a neighbouring galaxy that we could reach, but there's nothing. In the Heleus cluster, though, there is a neighbouring cluster that is within a figurative arm's length with stuff to do and explore, for sure. So, your saying that it's at least 3 years away from ANY edge of the Milky Way galaxy? What is then the space between galactic space and dark space? My mistake, then. I thought we meant "dark space" to be the point that is inhabited by the Reapers. If it is the emptiness between galaxies, then you can just take a relay that drives you to the edge of the galaxy and just walk out. Definition of Dark Sapce per Merriam-Webster: " any of several regions or layers in the visible-glow discharge of a gas-filled cold-cathode electron tube that remain nonluminous or exhibit low light intensity until the ions in such spaces acquire sufficient energy to excite fluorescence in the tube gas"
So, I ask again - Where is dark space? Mass Effect's answer is that it is everywhere outside the galaxy. If I'm at any edge of the galaxy, I am immediately adjacent to dark space. Since the galaxy is not a "solid" or confined space with vase expanses of scientifically dark space between visible clusters, where precisely are the galactic edges?
This is a great flaw in the Mass Effect lore, IMO... and it was there from the beginning. There are no walls or roads or actual corridors in space. Yes, OK, I get your point. But it's empty. Like go here. Good, now it's 600 years to the closest other galaxy to explore, just explore this vast dark sea of unfathomable emptiness. You can, but there is no point.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 17:06:57 GMT
Definition of Dark Space per the Mass Effect Wiki: "Dark space (or intergalactic space) is the name of the physical space between galaxies in the same way as interstellar space is the space between stars within a galaxy. Dark space is completely dark, as it contains little to no stars and makes up almost the entire volume of the universe, where galaxies are only small islands of light. The distance between two neighboring galaxies is in the order of several million light-years, while the diameter of the Milky Way's galactic disc is only about 100,000 light-years." So it's an emptiness. A void. Full of nothing and nothing to do. I guess they could have made an empty map, with nothing to do that we can't even circle around, but that's not very exciting. And there's no point to it. It could have a point, had there been a neighbouring galaxy that we could reach, but there's nothing. In the Heleus cluster, though, there is a neighbouring cluster that is within a figurative arm's length with stuff to do and explore, for sure. So, your saying that it's at least 3 years away from ANY edge of the Milky Way galaxy? What is then the space between galactic space and dark space? My mistake, then. I thought we meant "dark space" to be the point that is inhabited by the Reapers. If it is the emptiness between galaxies, then you can just take a relay that drives you to the edge of the galaxy and just walk out. Definition of Dark Sapce per Merriam-Webster: " any of several regions or layers in the visible-glow discharge of a gas-filled cold-cathode electron tube that remain nonluminous or exhibit low light intensity until the ions in such spaces acquire sufficient energy to excite fluorescence in the tube gas"
So, I ask again - Where is dark space? Mass Effect's answer is that it is everywhere outside the galaxy. If I'm at any edge of the galaxy, I am immediately adjacent to dark space. Since the galaxy is not a "solid" or confined space with vase expanses of scientifically dark space between visible clusters, where precisely are the galactic edges?
This is a great flaw in the Mass Effect lore, IMO... and it was there from the beginning. There are no walls or roads or actual corridors in space. Yes, OK, I get your point. But it's empty. Like go here. Good, now it's 600 years to the closest other galaxy to explore, just explore this vast dark sea of unfathomable emptiness. You can, but there is no point. No, you're not seeing the point at all. Dark space is not a defined space at all. It is an unobserved space because there is no light to reveal it. Scientists know that dark space has matter (dark matter, dark energy) because how the stars we see through space behave. It's not a place, it's space.
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